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Instead of Bashing Marbury and The Knicks, Why Not Simply Take A Vacation?
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Masterplan
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7/26/2007  12:01 PM
Posted by nixluva:

I havn't yet gone back to the Frye thread, I'll check it out.

cool, when you get a chance
In regards to the guys who take the occasional 3, I don't think they're really going to be a problem. I would assume that in many cases those guys will only have very limited situations where they get the ball at the 3pt line and must shoot it.

limited situations that will arise a few times every game. at least, you have to recognize that those attempts count in our average. balkman taking those threes instead of bowen will make a difference in how we stack up in the league.
My point is that I expect that there will be a greater focus on the 3 and who is taking them. I also disagree about Zach not having a significant efffect on the amount of open looks we get from 3. Like I said. In years past we didn't have another serious post threat like Zach who could take over when Curry isn't in the game. Now we do. That's gonna make a big difference in terms of our ability to play inside out effectively for the whole game. I never said anything about it doubling the amount of looks, but I do expect that they will increase a good deal.

i just put the "double" number out there for illustration, no one said it. i was saying, 1 post up big man gives us X open threes, but 2 post up big men doesn't mean 2X open threes. and beyond that it's a question of degrees. i say "modest," you say "a good deal." i think i'm right, naturally. eddy's off the court 15 mpg tops. i'd be disappointed if we didn't use at least 10 of those to give our second line some burn - leaving in ZR would only slow them down. while eddy and zach are both on the court, i don't think they produce that many additional open looks than either alone. that's my thought process.
AUTOADVERT
misterearl
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7/26/2007  12:14 PM
There is no normal building workflow:

1) Suck so bad for consecutive years that you are rewarded with a lottery pick

2) Fire the General Manager for putting franchise in desperate position with regards to roster

3) Fire head coach hired by fired General Manager

4) Placate frustrated fan base with silly promotions, giveaway nights and free party on draft night

5) Select first rounder who is decent but does not pan out to be a superstar

6) Put undue pressure on player to be savior by surrounding him with more young players who are unsure of how to win close games

7) Trade player for draft picks

6) "Blow it up" and start over by firing General Manager

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-26-2007 12:17 PM]
once a knick always a knick
nixluva
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7/26/2007  12:14 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Anyone care to bet how long it takes nixluva to drive codeunknown insane?

[Edited by - basketballjones on 07-26-2007 11:53]

If he's bothered by my positive take on things, i'm sorry, but i'm entitled to my opinion. I look at the situation and I can see how this team can succeed at what it's trying to do. No one is guaranteeing anything, positive or negative. We can only make educated guesses at what we think will happen.

Last year we avg'd about 5.8 made 3pt'ers on 16.7 attempts. Teams took 18.6 3's against us and made 7. We'll need to defend the 3 better and likely increase the number of 3's and our efficiency making them. I believe that we may get up to taking about 18, 3's per game this year. We'd need to make about 7 of those. It's a high bar for this team, but that's what they need to shoot for to keep defenses honest.
codeunknown
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7/26/2007  4:37 PM
Posted by nixluva:


Code, you're doing a good job of taking the worst case scenario for why this teams shooting will be insufficient. This assumes that Isiah has no clue how to make sure he has good perimeter shooting this year. For one thing Nate is gonna play and if Mardy is gonna take minutes away, he's gonna have to have improved his 3pt shooting, cuz that's gonna be a priority this year. I'm hopeful that Q will be healthy this year and able to play more games.

I'm taking the worst case scenario? I'm saying even if we repeat last year's performance, including career shooting year's for Marbs, Q and Nate, we'll still suck worse than every playoff team and 6 lottery teams if winning was ordered by 3pt %. Last year's performance was the worst case? Even worse than LB?







[Edited by - codeunknown on 07-26-2007 4:42 PM]
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
codeunknown
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7/26/2007  4:41 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by BasketballJones:

Anyone care to bet how long it takes nixluva to drive codeunknown insane?

About 3 more posts.

Give or take.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
nixluva
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7/26/2007  5:02 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by nixluva:


Code, you're doing a good job of taking the worst case scenario for why this teams shooting will be insufficient. This assumes that Isiah has no clue how to make sure he has good perimeter shooting this year. For one thing Nate is gonna play and if Mardy is gonna take minutes away, he's gonna have to have improved his 3pt shooting, cuz that's gonna be a priority this year. I'm hopeful that Q will be healthy this year and able to play more games.

I'm taking the worst case scenario? I'm saying even if we repeat last year's performance, including career shooting year's for Marbs, Q and Nate, we'll still suck worse than every playoff team and 6 lottery teams. Last year's performance was the worst case? Even worse than LB?

Touche'. I see your point. Perhaps worst case scenario is taking it way too far.

I think Isiah is very aware of how important the perimeter shooting is gonna be. I think he won't rest until it's better than it was last year. While it's true that Q had one of his highest 3pt %'s last year, it's not like he's never been that high. In 01-02 he was at 38% in his healthiest season. He also had another good showing in his one year in PHX at nearly 36%. I would say that when healthy he's capable of hitting for a high %.

Steph has had a lot of poor 3pt shooting seasons, but he's also had a few good ones. His highest being 36.7% in 98-99. I think he's more than capable of shooting near 36% when he's focused on shooting in the flow of the offense. In the past he's been more of wild shooter. I think he's more calculated now in when he shoots the 3. His 3pt % has gone up in each of the last 4 years, except for the LB season. That happens to be when he took fewer 3pt shots per game.

Nate hasn't had a long enough career to really say it was a career year, but even still his was slightly better in his rookie year. 39.7 as opposed to 39% this year. The thing is It really doesn't matter to me. All i'm concerned with is Isiah making sure that these guys are prepared for the style of play that we'll have this year. We're gonna need solid Perimeter shooting and I think we have some guys that can do it.

I'm looking for Jamal to improve and get back to the level he was at in 04-05 and 05-06.

Who knows maybe we can get Nichols worked into some games this year. I'd like to see how he does with the varsity and against the Varsity of other teams.
Bippity10
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7/26/2007  5:16 PM
How about putting it this way. Our 3 pt shooting isn't horrible and isn't going to kill us. But for us to take it to the next level, with two behemoths in the post we need 2 things, a PG that can get them the ball, and DEAD EYE SHOOTERS.

What we have today keeps us afloat, but is not enough to take us to a championship level.
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nixluva
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7/26/2007  5:30 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

How about putting it this way. Our 3 pt shooting isn't horrible and isn't going to kill us. But for us to take it to the next level, with two behemoths in the post we need 2 things, a PG that can get them the ball, and DEAD EYE SHOOTERS.

What we have today keeps us afloat, but is not enough to take us to a championship level.

That's better. I wouldn't disagree with that at all. I'm really hoping we have something in Nichols. I like the way he plays. It reminds me of Reggie and Rip. It's hard to see how he can get into the games unless Isiah takes some time away from someone else, but he looks like the kind of shooter we need.

I have a good feeling about Q. If this guy can get in shape and drop some weight, I think his back may finally hold up for him to make it thru the seaon. When he was feeling good at the start of the year, his shot was really on.
misterearl
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7/27/2007  9:58 AM
nixluva - Nichols played some two guard in Vegas. As well as Chandler.

The three-point percentage debate is valic but I have a sense that something else is at work in the brains of the coaching staff...

Better defense through better matchups

when you consider the Knicks can run a fluid defense-oriented shiftline of Collins at 6'6, Nichols at 6'7 and either Jeffries at 6'11 or Balkman at 6'8...

notice how the perimeter defense becomes more of an obstacle for oppposing teams.

Everyone wants to complain about perimeter defense

but few people want to talk about the availability of defensive skill sets

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-27-2007 09:59 AM]
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Bippity10
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7/27/2007  10:03 AM
Misterearl that is a solid defensive line-up. Collins, Jeffries and Balkman is a good defensive threesome. Nichols is showing some potential on that side as well. But this lineup now you are struggling for O. So that means Zach or Curry has to be on the floor. That means teams are going to sag off of Jeffries and Collins and Renaldo and blanket Nichols and Curry/Zach. Again, it's a good defensive line-up but because we have so many one way role players we are leaving ourselves prone to weaknesses that can be exploited.

Can you overcome this? Of course. But that means on those nights you have to dominate the boards and your D has to shut the other team down. It also means that Marbs and Jamal and one of the two big guys is sitting. It all sounds good and it all sounds bad at the same time. For Every strength that one of our line-ups brings to the floor it also brings 2 weaknesses. This is the problem with an unbalanced line-up. This is why we have some of the best talent in the east but are still wondering if we will be a playoff team.
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nixluva
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7/27/2007  10:12 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

Misterearl that is a solid defensive line-up. Collins, Jeffries and Balkman is a good defensive threesome. Nichols is showing some potential on that side as well. But this lineup now you are struggling for O. So that means Zach or Curry has to be on the floor. That means teams are going to sag off of Jeffries and Collins and Renaldo and blanket Nichols and Curry/Zach. Again, it's a good defensive line-up but because we have so many one way role players we are leaving ourselves prone to weaknesses that can be exploited.

Can you overcome this? Of course. But that means on those nights you have to dominate the boards and your D has to shut the other team down. It also means that Marbs and Jamal and one of the two big guys is sitting. It all sounds good and it all sounds bad at the same time. For Every strength that one of our line-ups brings to the floor it also brings 2 weaknesses. This is the problem with an unbalanced line-up. This is why we have some of the best talent in the east but are still wondering if we will be a playoff team.

I think there's a good chance that Jared and Collins will be more confident offensively. You could already see Collins gaining confidence in his offense with more PT last year. I already saw jared make adjustments in his shooting form and start making some shots I didn't even expect to go in. If he has indeed been working hard on his offense this summer maybe there will be some tangible results. I don't think the offense of that unit would be great, but not so bad that we couldn't play them together if we needed to. We'll see if Isiah tries something like that or not, at some point in the season.
misterearl
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7/27/2007  10:12 AM
bippity - here is the fun part

the Knicks in previous years have had matchup problems at the three and the four spot on defense. Crawford has been a sieve when placed against the elite shooting guards.

You make some excellent points about covering for the deficiencies of the defense-oriented shiftline but check this out

just for kicks and giggles

Collins is a hard worker and demonstrated the ability not only to make some shots but to get his teammates involved. Some have been screaming for a lead guard who can deliver the ball to the comfort zone of the reciever... well, Collins just may be an answer as the offense needs rhythm most of all.

It needs continuity and jazz at the same time

the beauty of running Nichols at the two is that he is not afraid to shoot it. here is a player whose shooting percentage increased steadily every year. what does that tell us, along with the evidence in Las Vegas?

the dude can shoot the ball quite possibly on par with Jamal Crawford.

the net result if he continues to mature and improve?

the two guard position suddenly is manned by a 6'7 sniper who can defend.

Balkman may never have a jumper. Jeffries is who he is.

They pick up the garbage and scuffle for their points where they can find them.
once a knick always a knick
Bippity10
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7/27/2007  10:40 AM
Posted by misterearl:

bippity - here is the fun part

the Knicks in previous years have had matchup problems at the three and the four spot on defense. Crawford has been a sieve when placed against the elite shooting guards.

You make some excellent points about covering for the deficiencies of the defense-oriented shiftline but check this out

just for kicks and giggles

Collins is a hard worker and demonstrated the ability not only to make some shots but to get his teammates involved. Some have been screaming for a lead guard who can deliver the ball to the comfort zone of the reciever... well, Collins just may be an answer as the offense needs rhythm most of all.

It needs continuity and jazz at the same time

the beauty of running Nichols at the two is that he is not afraid to shoot it. here is a player whose shooting percentage increased steadily every year. what does that tell us, along with the evidence in Las Vegas?

the dude can shoot the ball quite possibly on par with Jamal Crawford.

the net result if he continues to mature and improve?

the two guard position suddenly is manned by a 6'7 sniper who can defend.

Balkman may never have a jumper. Jeffries is who he is.

They pick up the garbage and scuffle for their points where they can find them.

Again, you are both correct. IF all that occurs than we are going to be better. But the point is once again, we don't know. We are left hoping that guys that haven't been able to do it in the past, or guys that haven't played an NBA minute will improve in all these areas and get it done. Can it happen? of course. But the chance are that none of these guys you mention will be getting major minutes, and if they do, they won't be providing offense(going on passed events).

Again it's fun to imagine and hope, and we all do that everyday. But until these guys actually do it, it's just talk and fantasizing. Again, I'm as hopeful and dreamy as the both of you. But the only thing I have to go by is past performance.
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misterearl
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7/27/2007  11:03 AM
The Orange and Blue Genie In A Bottle

(bippity can I just have three wishes?)

1. Zach Randolph keeps his head up during his acrobatic forays into the lane.

2. Demetris Nichols earns his minutes at two guard based on performance and not by default, due to injury

3. Quentin Richardson mentors Wilson Chandler through a series a friendly phone conversations and has spends some time with him in Chicago

4. Randolph Morris is bench pressing 225 pounds with a vengeance

okay, that's four wishes... so sue me
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Bippity10
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7/27/2007  11:18 AM
What does that mean?
I just hope that people will like me
nixluva
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7/27/2007  11:19 AM
I'm just glad that we have the kind of talent on this team that we can get behind for the next 5-6 years. It's clear as day to me that we have a lot of good young talent and that we should be a playoff team with what we have. All the details will be up to Isiah, but I like what I saw with this team at times last year. They were the most consistently up and down team but you could see where the problems were and I think we're getting closer to fixing some of those issues, with the players we have coming up.

Of course there's no guarantee that they work out, but so far Isiah has been pretty good at finding guys that can produce on this level in the draft. Let's hope that this years crop is yet again good enough to help us this year and in the future.
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7/27/2007  11:29 AM
Posted by nixluva:

I'm just glad that we have the kind of talent on this team that we can get behind for the next 5-6 years. It's clear as day to me that we have a lot of good young talent and that we should be a playoff team with what we have. All the details will be up to Isiah, but I like what I saw with this team at times last year. They were the most consistently up and down team but you could see where the problems were and I think we're getting closer to fixing some of those issues, with the players we have coming up.

Of course there's no guarantee that they work out, but so far Isiah has been pretty good at finding guys that can produce on this level in the draft. Let's hope that this years crop is yet again good enough to help us this year and in the future.

Nix: If Isiah hadn't wasted so much time going after fantasy players and blowing money on malcontents he could be considered a great GM. His drafting skills and ability to get young players is undisputed. The problem is that he is his own worst enemy. I love the young players. I think everyone should give them as much love as possible because Isiah could very easily get rid of them tomorrow for the next big "star".
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nyk4ever
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7/27/2007  11:40 AM
Instead of caring when people bash Marbury and the Knicks, Why Not Simply Take a Vacation?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
islesfan
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7/27/2007  12:30 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

What does that mean?

LMAO

It doesn't mean anything. That's the point.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
misterearl
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7/27/2007  9:33 PM
>>Nix: If Isiah hadn't wasted so much time going after fantasy players and blowing money on malcontents he could be considered a great GM.

bippity - would you consider that given the inherited roster, combined with the Cablevision mission to maintain subscriptions and the often-neglected nature of doing business with your competition...

that spending Dolan's money and the pursuit of marketable assets was not a waste of time... but a necessary step in the painful process of changing the traditional business model of the New York Knicks basketball franchise?

No matter what the opinion of the blueprint, the Knicks are poised to open camp with a yoot-dominated (players 27 and under) rebuild of a roster that fans just may grow to like.

That is, if you are a fan who pledged patience (kinda like the seven years it took the Bulls to re-reach the playoffs) for a "rebuild" or a fan who wants the knicks to succeed.

nyk4ever - I'm on vacation dude. Just got back from Las Vegas and headed to the Outer Banks of North Carolina.

Thanks for caring.
once a knick always a knick
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