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Knicks Fire Brown
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Rich
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6/22/2006  2:48 PM
The only questions I have about Curry are his desire and his hoops IQ, but talent-wise, he's there.
AUTOADVERT
holfresh
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6/22/2006  2:50 PM
Posted by Rich:

The only questions I have about Curry are his desire and his hoops IQ, but talent-wise, he's there.


Now that Larry is gone you're gonna think he is a genius...
rvhoss
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6/22/2006  2:50 PM
That alone is madenning, he missed a dunk a game...either he's deaf or larry didn't mention how fundamentally sound a layup is.

If he misses a dunk this year I want to see him doing pushups right there on the floor during the game (like wesley snipes in major league)

sorry for all the courageuous (sp) underdog movie references, I just feel like the knicks are in a position where everything is gravy, nowhere to go but up.
Posted by Andrew:

the fat acrobat...funny...for some reason that reminds me of all the dunks Curry missed this past year....I don't know why.

all kool aid all the time.
Ray15
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6/22/2006  2:52 PM
I'm a big Larry Brown guy. I think the way to win in this league is to get leaders that know how to win, are tough as nails, love the game, and are 100% committed to defense and rebounding.

As a fan, I have to look at the upside. If Larry and management are not on the same page -- he can't be successful. He needs to bring in his own guys that buy into his system. Now maybe I give him too much credit -- Riley was able to get Walker and Jason Williams trying on the defensive end and buying into the team concept -- I still think that is more due to the leadership of Shaq, Wade, Payton, and Zo but who knows.

The bright side to this move is the players will like playing for IT. He'll open up the court and they'll start to have fun. Maybe this team is more suited for that style. We'll win some more games but in my opinion be no closer to winning a championship. That'll be ok as long as two things happen:
1. We realize the crap we have on this team and trade them for better, two-way players when their stock rises because we're running and they're putting up good offensive numbers.
2. We bring in a coach that preaches defense (Avery Johnson taking over for Don Nelson) once we start to get back to that mediocre status. If these guys start winning, the young guys may get some confidence and will buy into a system that works later on.

Hopefully Isiah realizes we need to bring in a defensive perimter player and a defensive power forward. Grab Lowry in the draft, trade Francis and Jerome James for Kenyon and Ruben Patterson. You run every chance you get and have a team of Marbury, Crawford, Q, Kenyon, Curry, Frye, Lee, Lowry, Nate, Butler, Woods. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
Defense and Toughness
Bonn1997
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6/22/2006  2:52 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Bonn: It's crappy everything. Once again another guy obsessed with LB. Eveyrone sucked. Everyone. Bonn and the rest of the LB obsessed everyone sucked.
Now you're *Intentionally* distorting my view. (Or you're characterizing me without reading what I write.) I've posted countless times, including in this thread, that the biggest problem is Cablevision and Brown and Isiah are distant, smaller problems.



[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06-22-2006 2:53 PM]
McK1
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6/22/2006  2:53 PM
would've been nice to see what Mike Sweetney could've become on a cheap rookie contract

8 mill per 3 picks 1 swap the starting 4 and the starting 3 to see if Eddy can "fulfill his potential."
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
holfresh
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6/22/2006  3:01 PM
Posted by Ray15:

I'm a big Larry Brown guy. I think the way to win in this league is to get leaders that know how to win, are tough as nails, love the game, and are 100% committed to defense and rebounding.

As a fan, I have to look at the upside. If Larry and management are not on the same page -- he can't be successful. He needs to bring in his own guys that buy into his system. Now maybe I give him too much credit -- Riley was able to get Walker and Jason Williams trying on the defensive end and buying into the team concept -- I still think that is more due to the leadership of Shaq, Wade, Payton, and Zo but who knows.

The bright side to this move is the players will like playing for IT. He'll open up the court and they'll start to have fun. Maybe this team is more suited for that style. We'll win some more games but in my opinion be no closer to winning a championship. That'll be ok as long as two things happen:
1. We realize the crap we have on this team and trade them for better, two-way players when their stock rises because we're running and they're putting up good offensive numbers.
2. We bring in a coach that preaches defense (Avery Johnson taking over for Don Nelson) once we start to get back to that mediocre status. If these guys start winning, the young guys may get some confidence and will buy into a system that works later on.

Hopefully Isiah realizes we need to bring in a defensive perimter player and a defensive power forward. Grab Lowry in the draft, trade Francis and Jerome James for Kenyon and Ruben Patterson. You run every chance you get and have a team of Marbury, Crawford, Q, Kenyon, Curry, Frye, Lee, Lowry, Nate, Butler, Woods. It'll be interesting to see what happens.



Ray thanks for that...It's really good seeing a person who supported Larry put the team first as it should be...let's hope all you say happens and we right this ship finally....

thanks for the support bro...
holfresh
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6/22/2006  3:03 PM
Posted by McK1:

would've been nice to see what Mike Sweetney could've become on a cheap rookie contract

8 mill per 3 picks 1 swap the starting 4 and the starting 3 to see if Eddy can "fulfill his potential."

I don't get it....Sweets is twice the size of Curry, but you want to see him here...At least Curry has some muscle definition in his arms...
Rich
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6/22/2006  3:03 PM
Patterson isn't coming here as long as the harassment suit is out there.
Bippity10
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6/22/2006  3:04 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Ray15:

I'm a big Larry Brown guy. I think the way to win in this league is to get leaders that know how to win, are tough as nails, love the game, and are 100% committed to defense and rebounding.

As a fan, I have to look at the upside. If Larry and management are not on the same page -- he can't be successful. He needs to bring in his own guys that buy into his system. Now maybe I give him too much credit -- Riley was able to get Walker and Jason Williams trying on the defensive end and buying into the team concept -- I still think that is more due to the leadership of Shaq, Wade, Payton, and Zo but who knows.

The bright side to this move is the players will like playing for IT. He'll open up the court and they'll start to have fun. Maybe this team is more suited for that style. We'll win some more games but in my opinion be no closer to winning a championship. That'll be ok as long as two things happen:
1. We realize the crap we have on this team and trade them for better, two-way players when their stock rises because we're running and they're putting up good offensive numbers.
2. We bring in a coach that preaches defense (Avery Johnson taking over for Don Nelson) once we start to get back to that mediocre status. If these guys start winning, the young guys may get some confidence and will buy into a system that works later on.

Hopefully Isiah realizes we need to bring in a defensive perimter player and a defensive power forward. Grab Lowry in the draft, trade Francis and Jerome James for Kenyon and Ruben Patterson. You run every chance you get and have a team of Marbury, Crawford, Q, Kenyon, Curry, Frye, Lee, Lowry, Nate, Butler, Woods. It'll be interesting to see what happens.



Ray thanks for that...It's really good seeing a person who supported Larry put the team first as it should be...let's hope all you say happens and we right this ship finally....

thanks for the support bro...



I think Ray15 summarizes the opinion of the "larry lovers"
I just hope that people will like me
Rich
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6/22/2006  3:05 PM
At least it's balanced.
codeunknown
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6/22/2006  3:14 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by rvhoss:



So, coaching a 35 win team to 23 games makes the curry trade look like crap, however, I beg to differ and think we should have won a ton more games and they don't have the number 2 pick, and possibly don't even have a lottery pick and then the curry trade is AWESOME.


Then protect the pick. Or don't trade for Curry. Starting a rookie pf, having no starting 3 and an undersized Crawford at the 2 isn't a recipe for a standout season. Curry was a risk to begin with. You knew two consecutive lottery seasons weren't out of the question. Protect your gambles intead of giving away the farm for a heap of hypertrophic crap.



Please stop...Curry is better than anyone coming out...No question...


No one makes that trade if we protect that pick...No one...



[Edited by - holfresh on 06-22-2006 2:20 PM]

Is he better than everyone coming out in next year's draft as well? And 2 2nd-rounders and Michael Sweetney? You're reaching.

Even conservatively speaking, I think up to 5 players in this years draft can be better than Eddy. Aldrige, Gay, Morrison, Thomas and Bargnani. And there are many more risks that could pan out. Bottom line - there are guys in this draft with equal ceilings and higher floors.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
nyk4ever
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6/22/2006  3:14 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:

See my problem is this. Who cares that Larry went behind Isiah to make trades when Isiah has been fleeced on every trade he has made! Why are you guys backing Isiah when he hasn't made one good trade move since he's been here. Larry knew this and went behind to make better moves.

What I can't understand is why are you defending Brown when his obviously tanked the season and sabotaged the organization...Sound like you are a Brown fan first and a Knick fan second...


I could care less what the coaches name was or is, all I care about is how he does things when he's on the court and what players he likes to coach. I was on this board long before Larry Brown took over as well, so that makes no sense Holfresh. I like the way Brown does things as a coach because he builds winners and has done so in the past. If you had any idea what Brown is all about then you knew this year was going to take a course like it did this year, I said so before the season started so it was no surprise to me. I want the Knicks to win and Larry Brown would have been put them in the best position to do so had them kept him around and allowed him to carry out his idealogy. PLAIN AND FUCKING SIMPLE.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
rvhoss
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6/22/2006  3:15 PM
that's all you had to say, see how positive it was? It's like he was able to get everyone's opinions and still maintain his own, he won't have to post 3 postings from now that he was taken out of context and we weren't reading his post incorrectly.

He's a knick fan first and everything else second and it's obvious by his post.

i think Ray15 summarizes the opinion of the "knick lovers"
all kool aid all the time.
Bippity10
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6/22/2006  3:21 PM
Posted by Rich:

At least it's balanced.


I've read many a post on this board and most people wanted LB chosen over the rest of the junk because he is the proven winner. I don't think too many people care about LB I think they are more concerned with the fact that the team has been taken away from the only guy that has won and placed back in the hands of people that have never won. That's the biggest breaking point. I think there are very few that want Isiah to lose to satisfy some sort of personal agenda. I just think because of the way past arguments presented themselves(players vs. LB) it's just assumed by those that wanted LB gone all season that anyone that supports him wanted him to keep doing eveyrthing they way he had.

I personally have not seen one poster on this board who has ever said LB did a good job this year or that he was not responsible for some of the mess. I jsut think it's been assumed because it's been "players vs. LB". Kind of like when it was "Spree against Allan". Any support of the other player was instantly determined to be unbalanced and you were considered a lover.

The bottom line is this was a bad hire. You hire LB and let him do his thing or you dont' hire him. It was just another bad Knicks hire based on creating splash instead of fitting in with some form of plan.
I just hope that people will like me
codeunknown
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6/22/2006  3:25 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by rvhoss:



So, coaching a 35 win team to 23 games makes the curry trade look like crap, however, I beg to differ and think we should have won a ton more games and they don't have the number 2 pick, and possibly don't even have a lottery pick and then the curry trade is AWESOME.


Then protect the pick. Or don't trade for Curry. Starting a rookie pf, having no starting 3 and an undersized Crawford at the 2 isn't a recipe for a standout season. Curry was a risk to begin with. You knew two consecutive lottery seasons weren't out of the question. Protect your gambles intead of giving away the farm for a heap of hypertrophic crap.

A) Brown didn't start a rookie PF. But he should have.

B) QRich was either the starting 2 or 3, so one of those points is off. Also, David Lee looked pretty good starting at the 3 and Nate looked okay starting at the 2. too bad it couldn't have been consistent.

Once again, the point was that positions 3-5 had brand new players, 2 under the age of 22, receiving significant minutes. Additionally, for your edification, Q-Rich didn't start for a significant host of games. Regardless, in the ones that he did start, he played like the spot up shooter he was in Phoenix - by no means surprising. Curry was a risk on and off the court - his defense and rebounding ranked among the most atrocious in Chicago and his performance wasn't better here. Crawford is undersized at 2 and his defensive lapses were also not surprising. So ask yourself where you're going with the observations you made? Do they justify the Curry trade? After all, that was the original point of contention.

The bottom line remains that the deal was an absolute disaster. 1 unprotected swap is yet to come. To decide not to insure the above mess is insanity beyond measure.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
Bippity10
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6/22/2006  3:27 PM
I think Ray15 made a great post. I don't think it's any better than any post Islesfan made about Isish even though I completely disagree with him. Being positive does not make you a Knicks fan. Rooting for your team doesn.

I personally don't care about the relationship between coach and the current players. I know that in order for us to be a winner we will have to make changes. I know that when we make changes in order to be a winner whoever is the coach will need "his players. Even Isiah. What I care about now is that we let Isiah coach the team. We worry less about rotations and last nights win/loss and more about where we are headed as a team. X amount of wins does not mark improvement. But x amount of wins and a positive direction and moves that fit a plan do. We have won 30+ games before. It's time to create a team that can shoot higher. Some of those players are on this roster. Some will have to go, not because they suck, but because they don't fit Isiah's plan(whatever that is)
I just hope that people will like me
nyk4ever
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6/22/2006  3:30 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

that's all you had to say, see how positive it was? It's like he was able to get everyone's opinions and still maintain his own, he won't have to post 3 postings from now that he was taken out of context and we weren't reading his post incorrectly.

He's a knick fan first and everything else second and it's obvious by his post.

i think Ray15 summarizes the opinion of the "knick lovers"

No one cares what you define as a fan. Really. While I agree with Ray 100%, theres no need for you to be running around this board as the Knicks Fan Police and saying who is a fan and who isn't. Just becuase we don't all agree with every move this organization makes like you do, doesn't mean we're not fans.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
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6/22/2006  3:54 PM
I've read many a post on this board and most people wanted LB chosen over the rest of the junk because he is the proven winner.
Isiah has the coaching winning % of a proven winner head coach and I bet his actions and playing rotations will be much less senile and insane than Brown's. (And no, Bip, I'm not one of those Larry-obsessed who thinks the team is headed in the right direction now. That's hopeless as long as Cablevision owns the Knicks. But I am happy Brown finally got what he deserved.)

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06-22-2006 3:55 PM]
McK1
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6/22/2006  3:57 PM
will the rotation problem simply vanish?

out of Marbury Francis Crawford Q and Nate how does 1 divy up the 96 backcourt mnutes?

then up front Frye Lee Curry James Rose Rose Taylor(assuming they return) Butler Woods

9 guys 144 minutes. even if you minus Malik, thats 8 guys who aren't clearly head and shoulders over others. who do you play, who do you sit?

[Edited by - McK1 on 06-22-2006 3:57 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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