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THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THESE INSANE RUMORS START UP: KG 2 NY!!!
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gunsnewing
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11/22/2005  4:50 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by PhilinLA:

The point is not that we shouldn't try to get KG, it's that in a salary dump, you don't give up guys like Frye and Curry. You give up expiring deals and take back Wally's.


Lemme ask you something -

What do you think Mchale will demand in any trade?

Either a bunch of talent that comes close to equalling KG's market value(difficult, but possible).

Or expirings + Fut. # 1's...

Well, we don't have any # 1's to give up. But we do have the equivalent of lottery choices in Ariza, Butler, Frye, Lee, and Nate.

I can guarantee we'll have to give up ATLEAST 1...if it's not Frye -- GREAT! But again, if Frye alone is the holdup in negotiations, wow...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-22-2005 4:17 PM]


And remember teams like NJ & Detroit will be in the mix bangling Richard Jefferson, Rasheed & Big Ben in Minnesota's face! We're going to get KG for expiring contracts????!!! Minnesota fans will be really happy about that!
AUTOADVERT
bobs3304
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11/22/2005  4:51 PM
Posted by PhilinLA:

He's gonna be a 20+ per game guy with boards, blocks, vision and defense.


20 & 8 SAR style, or 20 & 8 Rasheed Wallace?

THATS my point.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
PhilinLA
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11/22/2005  4:53 PM
If Minny wants cap room, we're in luck, if they want lesser stars (that will also make them worse in the short run and possibly the long run) we're probably out of luck, and will have to hope Curry, Frye and Lee develop at max speed.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
bobs3304
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11/22/2005  4:55 PM
^ Hopefully KG pushes for NYC...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nyk4ever
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11/22/2005  4:57 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by nyk4ever:

I think we can all agree on one thing. Let's hope it comes down Antonio/Penny and a few future picks.

That's the point my man.

We don't HAVE any "future picks" to trade...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-22-2005 4:45 PM]


Does anyone know a website that contains the official "future picks" scenario. NBAdraft.net and realgm both have different scenarios.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
gunsnewing
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11/22/2005  5:00 PM
Posted by efw:

bobs,

the real issue here is that you don't want to trade what you have until you know what it is - especially for an aging superstar.

since when is 29 aging! We're in 2005! like I said Ewing averaged 22/11/2.5 at 36!

gunsnewing
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11/22/2005  5:04 PM
Posted by efw:

I never said Frye was going to be KG (although your statement is, by definition, an assumption).

The question is whether it is wiser to have a player like Frye for the next 10-12 years on your team or a player like KG for 3-4. The point is not to blow your wad on one player but to design a team that is strong in the present and the future. That is the most important reason for holding onto Frye. Not that he will someday become KG.

In my opinion, after weighing the consequences of both choices, I prefer to say no to a trade for KG that includes Frye.

Now, don't get me wrong, like you said, if Frye or Curry are not included, Minnesota can have their choice of anyone else on the roster.


depends. I'll take 4yrs of KG and a couple of titles over 12 more years of losing. You really think Frye is going to beat the Duncans and other dominate players of the nba? The guy has countless 3reb games! and is playing against other team's 2nd unit!

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 11-22-2005 5:11 PM]
gunsnewing
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11/22/2005  5:06 PM
Posted by Nalod:

No doubt KG is a great talent. But he has to be part of a great team effort. By that, is he like Marbs in that he is a talent vacume that does ont blend well with others? Could he coexist with Marbs in reality?

POrtland a few years ago had a impressive list of talented players that failed to become a team, the Lakers imploded under "Top shelf" names and miami faces this challange this year.

Larry proved you can win without superstars and having a tandam of Marbs and Garnett is suspsect in my opinion.

Thats not to say I would not pull the trigger on it, but it would have to be the right deal. Even if its expensive!


How could a player like KG not blend in with others! he's the most unselfish superstar ever! And if at times he's a little unselfish Curry will dominate!
bobs3304
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11/22/2005  5:06 PM
^ to be fair man, Sheed and KG started off with similar numbers their rookie season.

Problem is that Frye never dominated college, and I don't see his ceiling much past Rasheed Wallace (if even that).

I'll take 4 years of KG than 10 from Rasheed anyday...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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11/22/2005  5:07 PM
Btw, guys, I'd agree with you about keeping Frye at any expense if we were close to getting under the cap (meaning we could build on to what we have through Free Agency).

But as it looks, the best we can have to look forward to is lateral moves via trades...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
efw
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11/22/2005  5:16 PM
I'll take 4yrs of KG and a couple of titles over 12 more years of losing

So would I.

But both parts of your statement are hyperbole. You don't know we'll win two titles with KG. You don't know that we'll have 12 more years of losing if we refuse to give up Frye and as a result don't land KG.

When making these decisions, you can't be so emotional. The reason the Knicks enjoy starphucking is because you think that that elusive title is just one part away. If we could just get that one extra piece.

Well, it doesn't work like that. You don't go from being a lottery team to a championship team overnight (San Antonio excluded). You need to hold on to a few pieces that you believe in, that will make your team that much stronger in the long run.


Organizing a team into a contender requires a strategy. Teams that set themselves up for winning a championship in a very narrow time frame often fail more often than not. You have to have both current stars and future prospects.

That's why Miami is in such good position. Even if they don't win with Shaq now, they will always have one piece of the puzzle there.

Giving away Frye is short-sighted and may do more damage in the long run.
gunsnewing
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11/22/2005  5:16 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ to be fair man, Sheed and KG started off with similar numbers their rookie season.

Problem is that Frye never dominated college, and I don't see his ceiling much past Rasheed Wallace (if even that).

I'll take 4 years of KG than 10 from Rasheed anyday...


Frye may become a little better offensively than Rasheed and both will problably averaged the same amount of rebounds 6-8 as Frye has done so far his entire 4yr college career and continues following up 9reb performances with 3rebs performances the following game. Like you said I'll take 4yrs of KG over 10yrs of Rasheed anyday. I mean really people is Frye really going to be able to lead the Knicks to a championship ever? or are we going to stay mediocre and rely on mediocre draft picks/Rookies for the next 10yrs?

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 11-22-2005 5:17 PM]
PhilinLA
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11/22/2005  5:16 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ to be fair man, Sheed and KG started off with similar numbers their rookie season.

Problem is that Frye never dominated college, and I don't see his ceiling much past Rasheed Wallace (if even that).

I'll take 4 years of KG than 10 from Rasheed anyday...

You're charging Frye for playing under Lute with Salim as that team's first option (Lute has always been 1,2,3 oriented). Frye played his role and learned his fundamentals at Az, and that's why, in a system that makes him first option on some plays, he's doing so well. Systems can reveal players, but they can also conceal players (I should send that last line into Clyde).


http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
nyk4ever
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11/22/2005  5:20 PM
Posted by efw:
I'll take 4yrs of KG and a couple of titles over 12 more years of losing

So would I.

But both parts of your statement are hyperbole. You don't know we'll win two titles with KG. You don't know that we'll have 12 more years of losing if we refuse to give up Frye and as a result don't land KG.

But your statement is a hyperbole as well. You don't know that we'll win titles with Channing and you don't know if we'll have 12 years of winning if we don't give him up. KG is the better player by far and I'd take the chance with him any year over Channing. That's no dig at Channing, KG is and will always be the better player.


"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
efw
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11/22/2005  5:30 PM
You're confusing my argument.

I never said we'd win with Frye. What I said is that we'll have a better chance for a title if we have both Frye and KG.

If the choice comes whether or not to trade Frye for KG, then I prefer the chances of a more traditional build over a longer period of time. Keep the rookies, let them develop, and add more pieces throughout the years. It's the safer route to take and the more responsible one (i.e. the less "NY" one).
gunsnewing
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11/22/2005  5:31 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by efw:
I'll take 4yrs of KG and a couple of titles over 12 more years of losing

So would I.

But both parts of your statement are hyperbole. You don't know we'll win two titles with KG. You don't know that we'll have 12 more years of losing if we refuse to give up Frye and as a result don't land KG.

But your statement is a hyperbole as well. You don't know that we'll win titles with Channing and you don't know if we'll have 12 years of winning if we don't give him up. KG is the better player by far and I'd take the chance with him any year over Channing. That's no dig at Channing, KG is and will always be the better player.


exactly. We can argue back and forth but thats what it comes down to
gunsnewing
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11/22/2005  5:36 PM
Posted by efw:

You're confusing my argument.

I never said we'd win with Frye. What I said is that we'll have a better chance for a title if we have both Frye and KG.

If the choice comes whether or not to trade Frye for KG, then I prefer the chances of a more traditional build over a longer period of time. Keep the rookies, let them develop, and add more pieces throughout the years. It's the safer route to take and the more responsible one (i.e. the less "NY" one).


What pieces are we going to add? We don't have a 1st round pick this year, we're in cap hell for the next 4yrs which coincidently is when KG's contract comes off the books. Even if you want to relying on our 2007 first round pick...how long will it take for that player to develope? Another 3-4yrs if he even developes because he won't be a surefire #1 pick because we'll never lose enough games to win the lottery. We're talking about a 10-12yr process at least in order to become a contender! Get me KG NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KG has 6 dominant years left in him. Lets rack up at least 2 titles in the meantime then worry about draft picks later!
PhilinLA
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11/22/2005  5:56 PM
How do you know it's 6?
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
BasketballJones
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11/22/2005  6:02 PM
NY Fans can be funny. Here we discover that Isiah has a knack for picking well in the draft. He brings in some good young players - players who are interesting and exciting to watch - and yet we pine for 'superstars'. We cant sit back and enjoy the development of these guys without trashing them. We predict that they'll never be better than average.

For NY fans, the grass is always greener on the other side. We want the player that some other team took the time to develop. We want the Knicks to trade our young guys for 30 year old guys because we think the Knicks 'deserve' to win a championship. And it must happen SOON. We can't wait for the Knicks to build a team, we want them go buy one.

https:// It's not so hard.
gunsnewing
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11/22/2005  6:12 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

NY Fans can be funny. Here we discover that Isiah has a knack for picking well in the draft. He brings in some good young players - players who are interesting and exciting to watch - and yet we pine for 'superstars'. We cant sit back and enjoy the development of these guys without trashing them. We predict that they'll never be better than average.

For NY fans, the grass is always greener on the other side. We want the player that some other team took the time to develop. We want the Knicks to trade our young guys for 30 year old guys because we think the Knicks 'deserve' to win a championship. And it must happen SOON. We can't wait for the Knicks to build a team, we want them go buy one.


so Frye is going to be as good or better than KG is right now?
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THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THESE INSANE RUMORS START UP: KG 2 NY!!!
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