Posted by Bonn1997:

using that type of scale no one in baseball will ever live up to your unrealistic standards

Yet I said that if Cash got Manny, I'd give him an A+ for the off-season. A little consistency on your part please? Your criticisms of me are all over the place and often directly contradicted by my posts.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 01-05-2009 10:28 AM]

first of all, i'm not criticizing u... i'm asking u to provide some logical answers to my questions, so far something u haven't been able to do... i ask u again, what other GM do u think woulda done a better job?

[Edited by - TMS on 01-05-2009 07:36 AM]

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

using that type of scale no one in baseball will ever live up to your unrealistic standards

Yet I said that if Cash got Manny, I'd give him an A+ for the off-season. A little consistency on your part please? Your criticisms of me are all over the place and often directly contradicted by my posts.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 01-05-2009 10:28 AM]

first of all, i'm not criticizing u... i'm asking u to provide some logical answers to my questions, so far something u haven't been able to do... i ask u again, what other GM do u think woulda done a better job?

[Edited by - TMS on 01-05-2009 07:36 AM]

It's impossible to know because no other GM has been given remotely similar circumstances. All we can do is judge Cashman by his success rate, which I think is respectable but not miraculous.


[Edited by - bonn1997 on 01-05-2009 11:13 AM]

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Can I get the three of you (and anyone else who wants to join in) to at least admit that he's made enough blunders (for example, $300 mil on starting pitchers who gave us virtually nothing), that any other team would have fired him by now? Or can you find other examples of GMs in any sport having $300 mil worth of blunders and retaining their jobs?

where the hell do u come up with $300 mil worth of blunders??? i can't even answer that question cuz i have no idea what u're even talking about.
i'll tell u this much, there's no other examples of GM's who've had the level of success that Cashman's had & have gotten as much value out of consistently low round draft picks as he has either, in baseball or any other sport.

See my initial list where I posted the pitching blunders and indicated that he got virtually nothing out of the $300 mil he spent. I agree that no other GM has had his level of success but I'd add no other GM has had his level of failure too--whether it's $200 mil on a 3rd place team or $300 mil on pitchers that combined gave virtually nothing.
"Where in the hell"? You sound way too angry. This is just a sports message board.


[Edited by - bonn1997 on 01-05-2009 11:25 AM]

Posted by Bonn1997:
I agree that no other GM has had his level of success but I'd add no other GM has had his level of failure too

this isn't even worth addressing... i think i'm gonna take the advice of islesfan & stop trying at this point... u can hold onto ur delusions about Brian Cashman being an average GM if it makes u happy... i think you've pretty much proven how much credibility u have on this thread by now.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:
I agree that no other GM has had his level of success but I'd add no other GM has had his level of failure too

this isn't even worth addressing... i think i'm gonna take the advice of islesfan & stop trying at this point... u can hold onto ur delusions about Brian Cashman being an average GM if it makes u happy... i think you've pretty much proven how much credibility u have on this thread by now.

Does that mean you're chickening out of addressing the $300 mil in pitching blunders? I'm tempted to beg you to address it every three hours like you did for my list. If you want to let it go, that's cool too. I'm not going to keep bugging you to address it. It's obvious no one's opinion here is going to change anyway.


[Edited by - bonn1997 on 01-05-2009 1:27 PM]

Like TMS said, what $300M in pitching blunders? And at first you said it was $300M in STARTING pitching blunders, now it's just pitching in general. As always you're all over the place and with no point.

There were 2 outright pitching blunders where the Yankees received zero value, Pavano and Igawa. That's $86M. One could argue that Pavano was a worthwhile risk after seeing him pitch lights out in the 2003 postseason and then following that with an 18-8 3.00 ERA All Star season. But seeing how horrible he was with the Yankees, I'll chalk it up in the pitching blunder column. All the other moves you brought up had varying degrees of success and failure, with all being understandable without the benefit of hindsight.

this isn't even worth addressing... i think i'm gonna take the advice of islesfan & stop trying at this point... u can hold onto ur delusions about Brian Cashman being an average GM if it makes u happy... i think you've pretty much proven how much credibility u have on this thread by now.

You'll feel so much better, as if you stopped hitting your head against a wall.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:
I agree that no other GM has had his level of success but I'd add no other GM has had his level of failure too

this isn't even worth addressing... i think i'm gonna take the advice of islesfan & stop trying at this point... u can hold onto ur delusions about Brian Cashman being an average GM if it makes u happy... i think you've pretty much proven how much credibility u have on this thread by now.

Does that mean you're chickening out of addressing the $300 mil in pitching blunders? I'm tempted to beg you to address it every three hours like you did for my list. If you want to let it go, that's cool too. I'm not going to keep bugging you to address it. It's obvious no one's opinion here is going to change anyway.


[Edited by - bonn1997 on 01-05-2009 1:27 PM]

chickening out of what? as soon as u tell me what the hell u'r trying to get at with that ridiculous $300 mil dollar figure i'll give u my opinion on it... i already told u which moves i thought were blunders & which ones i would chalk up to completely understandable acquisitions... i'm not the one making outlandish generalizations on this thread w/no solid basis of factual info to back it up here... i've provided detailed factual information for every defense i've ever had of Brian Cashman's GMing skills, unlike u with your ridiculous "dozens of terrible & expensive moves" exaggerations.

this is ridiculous... if i sat here & listed every single good move Cashman's made as a sum total dollar value i will guarantee u it comes out to be way more than $300 mil worth of good acquisitions... i guarantee u that u can combine every single bad move he's made in your mind, pitchers or not, & u still wouldn't be able to come close to matching the dollar total of quality moves he's made as the GM... not that doing so would even make a difference in your opinion about Cashman, so why bother? all u would say is something like "well with an unlimited payroll i would expect as much, he's still average to me"... the more of these types of challenges u pose to me the weaker ur argument becomes.

Maybe you guys can agree that the AL East is the toughest division in baseball and should continue to be for years to come. It's going to take several more years to develop our farm system. Not giving away draft picks and young talent with upside in trades is a good start in the right direction. The Mets have been pretty reckless giving away young talent for free agents, if they don't win now (and they won't) they are sure to continue to suck for a long, long time (cough*choke*cough)

[Edited by - Rookie on 01-06-2009 09:38 AM]

Posted by Bonn1997:

Whatever. Whether it was evaluationg last off-season or predictions made during the season, just remember who has a track record of accurate predictions.
http://z7.invisionfree.com/The_Zone_Forums/index.php?showtopic=5596&hl=

you're a joke if u wanna hang your hat on an early season prediction & take the scope of this conversation away from your own inaccurate statements & back & forth explanations of them... here's some of the types of comments i've had to deal with over on those forums from you just to give some posters here a clue as to why i've been on your case to get you to come up w/some logical responses to why you have such a disdain for Cashman:

http://z7.invisionfree.com/The_Zone_Forums/index.php?showtopic=5735&st=0

TMS (Posted: Sep 25 2008, 03:30 PM)
would love to upgrade the offense in CF but there aren't many viable options out there.


===================

Bonn1997 (Posted: Sep 25 2008, 05:45 PM)
IDK. Often guys you never would have thought were available get traded. If Cashman is a good GM (and if he's re-signed ), he should use some creativity and use that huge financial advantage he has to improve at CF. Humans certainly have accomplished more challenging things than that over the past century!


seriously dude, are u freakin' kidding me? i don't think i need to say anything more to you. you've already done a good job of making urself look like a complete fool on this thread.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-06-2009 11:43 AM]

Posted by Rookie:

Maybe you guys can agree that the AL East is the toughest division in baseball and should continue to be for years to come. It's going to take several more years to develop our farm system. Not giving away draft picks and young talent with upside in trades is a good start in the right direction. The Mets have been pretty reckless giving away young talent for free agents, if they don't win now (and they won't) they are sure to continue to suck for a long, long time (cough*choke*cough)

[Edited by - Rookie on 01-06-2009 09:38 AM]

I'm sure we can agree on the AL east being incredibly tough and the importance of the farm system. It sucks that we didn't get any compensation picks for Abreu and Giambi though.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by djsunyc:

pettitte rejects yanks $10 mil/1 year offer.

ok, i'm going to sound like a nutjob here, but i wouldn't mind getting oliver perez on a 3 year deal. he's young and lefty. a bit of a risk but the reward is high. whatever the case, we need to sign someone for the 4th spot in the rotation, especially since burnett may get hurt, and joba is an unknown in terms of longevity as a starter. and i don't think they want hughes in there right away. although i wouldn't mind hughes starting.

looks like they may go with a 1 year rental to keep a rotation spot open for hughes down the road.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01-06-2009 11:30 AM]

Agree 100%. Even if we get Perez or another 5th starter, I highly doubt all 5 starters will stay healthy all season. Phil will get his share of spot starts and his chance to prove his worth. Last year was a nightmare for him but I haven't given up on him by any means.

Perez has to be for a very cheap price, though. His 4.40 NL career ERA probably translates to around 4.90 in the AL.