Lets Go Knicks!

Glad RJ is playing well, we will need him.

Glad Hart his those big shots. We need his confidence high.

Brunson was the closer to carry us to a victory.

Isaiah Hartenstein was the MVP with his energy on rebounds, charges, etc.
He came into the game at the 9min mark. And he kept his fouls in check. Great game from iHart who looks like a solid keeper.

Randle needs to be double teamed. Randle creates advantages. Randle impacts with force.

Obi is more of a ball mover, but against the playoff and better teams, he is not the type of player Randle is.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo/status/1653806381558902792

martin wrote:For me, this is the biggest distinction between someone like Randle and Obi.

Randle needs to be double teamed. Randle creates advantages. Randle impacts with force.

Obi is more of a ball mover, but against the playoff and better teams, he is not the type of player Randle is.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo/status/1653806381558902792

I dont see how Mia wins with a healthy Jules. I think we can manage Butler coming back. A Butler led Heat is more in our defensive wheelhouse vs. a team of 5 shooters running non stop screens until you get a good look and taking 50 3s

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:For me, this is the biggest distinction between someone like Randle and Obi.

Randle needs to be double teamed. Randle creates advantages. Randle impacts with force.

Obi is more of a ball mover, but against the playoff and better teams, he is not the type of player Randle is.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo/status/1653806381558902792

I thought he turned the corner here in Cle game 5 before he went down. He was having a bad shooting series so he went out impacted the game with his play making. He relentlessly attacked the rim while passing out of the crowds he was drawing. It was awesome until he turned his ankle. He was really dissecting the defense. This is absolutely going to determine the outcome of this series in my opinion. They are not going to let Brunson get his shot off from his spots 1-1. He's too good and Mia doesnt have the long defenders needed to shut that down. They will press and trap and double and force someone else to run the offense and that can be very much to our advantage. So far Randle shredded them especially in crunch time. If IQ gets going the Heat are phucked.

I dont see how Mia wins with a healthy Jules. I think we can manage Butler coming back. A Butler led Heat is more in our defensive wheelhouse vs. a team of 5 shooters running non stop screens until you get a good look and taking 50 3s

Looks like Miami was targeting Brunson all game, running him off screens. So not only putting up 50 3's as a team, but running Brunson around screens all day takes a lot out of him, especially since he's an offensive player and not a 2 way defender. Brunson should be on a stand still less mobile shooter. Grimes should be on the PGs who can shoot and runs pick and rolls (vincent) and Hart should be on Jimmy Buckets. Bring in IQ and Grimes sits. IQ takes on Grimes PG defensive assignment.

Regarding your RJ and Brunson discussion, I don't remember having this discussion when Grimes was starting. This is why I said Hart and RJ together doesn't work if the defense just lets them shoot (both are steaky). Take one of those guys out and put in Grimes, we have more balance on offense and teams will play less zone. But when RJ and Hart are on the floor together with half court players like Brunson and Randle, all you have to do is pack the paint and live or die with their jumpshots. This puts added pressure on JB and Randle to have efficient offensive shooting games.

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

martin wrote:For me, this is the biggest distinction between someone like Randle and Obi.

Randle needs to be double teamed. Randle creates advantages. Randle impacts with force.

Obi is more of a ball mover, but against the playoff and better teams, he is not the type of player Randle is.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo/status/1653806381558902792

For this team, this is correct. The reason is because there is no ball movement or player movement at all. So the only Obi specialty that can be used is his transition baskets. The problem is that Hart now starts so he don't even get those anymore. If you are going to ISO with no ball or player movement 100% of the time Randle and Brunson are the clear most important people. The Warriors would rather Obi than Randle in their system.

Edit: I would like to add when Randle moves the ball like in the last Cavs game I love how he plays. That was an amazing Randle game in my eye even when he missed some shots. He was swining that ball this last game also. So many of those big shots last game was on a swing from Randle. I just wish we have some off ball movement to make defenses make a mistake or to act as a decoy.

I think there is something to say that the Knicks in general need more ball and player movement and at times Randle and Brunson do ISO too much, but it's literally their specialty and Brunson is one of the league's best and Randle can singularly dominate his position but obviously fails when good double teams come his way.

Knicks biggest growth areas will be on offense, with increased ball and players moving.

But no team is picking Obi over Randle. None. That would be silliness.

I think you and I are talking about 2 different things entirely.

Good point about ISO's being our stars specialties. I would be able to tolerate ISO's more if we used off ball movement to disguise the ISO and to create cutting/passing lanes during the ISO. My main problem is the everyone just stand outside the 3pt line while we ISO every possesion.

I am no Warrior historian so this is a serious question. Since Kerr has taken over and implemented his movement system has the Warriors ever even attempted to sign an ISO player? I can't think of one off the top of my head. Their system is so based on player/ball movement and off ball picks I just can't see how an ISO player works in it. However, I will step back and stop with the Obi vs Randle for the Warriors thing because it is not something any of us can really prove so no reason to debate it.

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

martin wrote:For me, this is the biggest distinction between someone like Randle and Obi.

Randle needs to be double teamed. Randle creates advantages. Randle impacts with force.

Obi is more of a ball mover, but against the playoff and better teams, he is not the type of player Randle is.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo/status/1653806381558902792

For this team, this is correct. The reason is because there is no ball movement or player movement at all. So the only Obi specialty that can be used is his transition baskets. The problem is that Hart now starts so he don't even get those anymore. If you are going to ISO with no ball or player movement 100% of the time Randle and Brunson are the clear most important people. The Warriors would rather Obi than Randle in their system.

Edit: I would like to add when Randle moves the ball like in the last Cavs game I love how he plays. That was an amazing Randle game in my eye even when he missed some shots. He was swining that ball this last game also. So many of those big shots last game was on a swing from Randle. I just wish we have some off ball movement to make defenses make a mistake or to act as a decoy.

I think there is something to say that the Knicks in general need more ball and player movement and at times Randle and Brunson do ISO too much, but it's literally their specialty and Brunson is one of the league's best and Randle can singularly dominate his position but obviously fails when good double teams come his way.

Knicks biggest growth areas will be on offense, with increased ball and players moving.

But no team is picking Obi over Randle. None. That would be silliness.

I think you and I are talking about 2 different things entirely.

Good point about ISO's being our stars specialties. I would be able to tolerate ISO's more if we used off ball movement to disguise the ISO and to create cutting/passing lanes during the ISO. My main problem is the everyone just stand outside the 3pt line while we ISO every possesion.

I am no Warrior historian so this is a serious question. Since Kerr has taken over and implemented his movement system has the Warriors ever even attempted to sign an ISO player? I can't think of one off the top of my head. Their system is so based on player/ball movement and off ball picks I just can't see how an ISO player works in it. However, I will step back and stop with the Obi vs Randle for the Warriors thing because it is not something any of us can really prove so no reason to debate it.

The Warriors have their main players and they play to their strengths. They had KD and he is definitely an ISO guy and he fit in (on Brooklyn he is SUPER heavy ISO, on GSW he played differently). I think if Randle was on that team, he would not be as ISO dominant because their offense focuses on what is good for guys like Klay and Steph.

Right now, the Knicks don't have experienced offensive players on their team. Like Mitch and Grimes and RJ in the starting lineup. I think Grimes can get to a point of player movement, he cuts a lot when he is not spacing. But you can't really have a movement team with Mitch and RJ. YET. Right now those guys barely know how to do good offense outside of really simple things. Not for nothing, but even Randle is not a good mover. So 3 guys in the starting lineup and those guys are on the court a lot.

Knicks play heavy PnR, cause that's what their guys know and are capable of. So they need to space at the corners. Pretty sure outside of GSW, every team does this to different degrees, or at least a large majority of teams run PnR with space in different variations.

Spacing is completely different with a guy like iHart and IQ, cause they are smart and keep moving.

Sometimes you can only do what your talent allows.

I stand corrected. KD is definitely an ISO guy. I never mentally catagorized him that way but that is a mistake on my part.

The return of butler will help them and their team is confident but i fully expect we'll make adjustments and those guys will return to earth.

Conversely have to imagine IQ Obi and Grimes will add something. they've been stinkers for the most part

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:I felt like the Knicks got a lot of help from the refs to win this one. I think NY needs to go back to it's original rotation of starting Grimes and bringing Josh off the bench. Hopefully that does something for Quickly. If Quickly can't get back on track, I'm nervous about the Knicks prospects.

That does a lot for the entire team. He still gets his 30+ mins per game, so I don't see the big deal. Knick fans love him, and he's playing with Brunson in an impactful role as a swiss army knife. But for the same reasons I did not like RJ and Randle together. I don't like Hart in that starting unit, as far as the offensive flow. But Thibs will figure out how to balance that out with his substitution patterns. Thibs is leaning on defense more than offense. The issue is Deuce is on the bench and hes our best PG defender on the team. Hart is better at guarding SGs and SFs. But there's nobody in the starting lineup who can guard quick PGs who can shoot.

This is why I felt IQ would've been a better replacement for Grimes. Then you have Hart passing to Grimes and Obi, which will get them going, especially Grimes.

Disagree with Hart not fitting with starting line up. Think he fits better with them than Grimes. Being he does not need the ball in his hands or needs to score. He helps the offense leaning JB, RJ and Randle on the defensive end. Feel Grimes struggles have been that he does not know how to fit in with such ball dominant players. He is better in the second unit. Where he would be a top two go to guy. Especially if coaching staff can remind IQ he is still in a PG role with the second unit. Sometimes IQ is too offensive minded and forgets his job is still to run the offense and get others going.

Who is this Deuce you keep talking about? Do not think we need anyone to stop a "quick" PG. For the most part the challenge has been to stop the good ball movement and ball rotation that has resulted in open shots for the Heat. Dont think it has been about stopping a quick PG who is going one on one. Do think that Deuce should get some more time but more so to run the second unit better than IQ. An of course to do his thing on defense.

Brunson - mid range shooter who scores in the paint
Hart - scores at the rim
RJ - scores at the rim
Mitch - scores at the rim
Randle - injured same ankle twice, which impacts his legs and shooting

Grimes just started to play better before he got injured. Hart is starting because grimes is injured not because he’s a better fit. You will see on Saturday because thibs is not changing anything especially after a win. Just watch hart on offense in half court. He doesn’t fit. In the second unit, Obi IQ they run more. Add RJ to the second unit rotation and they score in transition. That’s harts game.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:My goodness this game thread was a trip.
The game was awful because some of you just want to see winning, not the art of the contest?
Heat get this far regardless of the lack of names and draft positions they should be respected.
This was how it was for years and year when heat are in playoffs. Some years they are good, some not so. YOu meet them in the playoffs they will drag you down and exact influence.

Thibs coached a great game. It was ugly. But the passing was there and keeping grimes fresh legs in the 4th mattered. He played great!!!
Randle ankle loosened up and he was great.
JB was not himself, but he came up big.
RJ you can see was struggling. HIs legs looked tired in the 3rd. Kid had a great game.
Great game! Heat took out Mitch somewhat and Isiah Hart was a wrecker!!!
WE go back to southbeach tied. Great series!!!!

Great game to watch and good game to turn off at spots. Lol
For those that don't appreciate a tough PF beast that demands double teams, you saw why you should last night. Randle as I have been saying is an elite physical PF.
Albeit, a "Wild" beast at times. It is something a chip team needs. We don't win the game without him.
IHart played great. Like Randle, brought the physicality. Beat up Bam all game and kept him under control. IHart is that big who does the "little" things a chip team needs. We don't win the game without him.
RJ was unstoppable going to the basket. Have always said he is elite getting to the rim. Also have said that if he makes his threes, he is an All Star. He was that last night. We don't win the game without him.
JHart is that glue guy, dog mentality player a chip team needs. He was also the "upgrade PG" I have been asking for all year, with his clutch shooting, last night. We don't win the game without him.
But MOST of all it was mother ****ing Jalen Brunson. Kid is our MVP. He won't let us lose. Kid made big shot after big shot. Proving that last year was not a fluke. We definitely don't win the game without him.

Win was a quintessential team win! All around good game from our big three and a couple from our role guys. Need to figure out how to cool Miami's three point shooting. If they continue to make that many threes and Butler comes back, we will have a tough time moving on. Also need our bench, besides the two Harts to wake up. It was our strength during the regular season and now our weakness. A reminder to those that love the yoots but don't understand that the vets are the ones who can continue their regular season success into the pressure packed playoffs.

I agree with everything but the bolded part. It should be Jalen Mother Fuckin' Brunson.

BigDaddyG wrote:

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:I felt like the Knicks got a lot of help from the refs to win this one. I think NY needs to go back to it's original rotation of starting Grimes and bringing Josh off the bench. Hopefully that does something for Quickly. If Quickly can't get back on track, I'm nervous about the Knicks prospects.

That does a lot for the entire team. He still gets his 30+ mins per game, so I don't see the big deal. Knick fans love him, and he's playing with Brunson in an impactful role as a swiss army knife. But for the same reasons I did not like RJ and Randle together. I don't like Hart in that starting unit, as far as the offensive flow. But Thibs will figure out how to balance that out with his substitution patterns. Thibs is leaning on defense more than offense. The issue is Deuce is on the bench and hes our best PG defender on the team. Hart is better at guarding SGs and SFs. But there's nobody in the starting lineup who can guard quick PGs who can shoot.

This is why I felt IQ would've been a better replacement for Grimes. Then you have Hart passing to Grimes and Obi, which will get them going, especially Grimes.

Disagree with Hart not fitting with starting line up. Think he fits better with them than Grimes. Being he does not need the ball in his hands or needs to score. He helps the offense leaning JB, RJ and Randle on the defensive end. Feel Grimes struggles have been that he does not know how to fit in with such ball dominant players. He is better in the second unit. Where he would be a top two go to guy. Especially if coaching staff can remind IQ he is still in a PG role with the second unit. Sometimes IQ is too offensive minded and forgets his job is still to run the offense and get others going.

Who is this Deuce you keep talking about? Do not think we need anyone to stop a "quick" PG. For the most part the challenge has been to stop the good ball movement and ball rotation that has resulted in open shots for the Heat. Dont think it has been about stopping a quick PG who is going one on one. Do think that Deuce should get some more time but more so to run the second unit better than IQ. An of course to do his thing on defense.

Brunson - mid range shooter who scores in the paint
Hart - scores at the rim
RJ - scores at the rim
Mitch - scores at the rim
Randle - injured same ankle twice, which impacts his legs and shooting

Grimes just started to play better before he got injured. Hart is starting because grimes is injured not because he’s a better fit. You will see on Saturday because thibs is not changing anything especially after a win. Just watch hart on offense in half court. He doesn’t fit. In the second unit, Obi IQ they run more. Add RJ to the second unit rotation and they score in transition. That’s harts game.

Yep, Grimes is the better fit when he's on his game. A three and D guard who doesn't hesitate to shoot the open three is what we need. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case. I'd love to see Hart creating one man fast breaks with Obi, Hart and IQ, especially in this series where easy looks are hard to come by. But Grimes needs to step in order for that to happen. Every possession matters now and we can't afford empty minutes.

I think Randle should be the one checking Butler. Maybe there's a mismatch down the line somewhere, but Randle and Butler spent time going at it in the regular season so I'm not sure if it's a problem. RJ can cover K Love defensively because Love just hangs on the perimeter.