martin wrote:

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1358820010114826240

I liked these thoughts from Jonathan

Rose Reunion: 5 Questions

There’s a lot to digest on the Rose trade, and it definitely has some big picture implications that I’ll get to in today’s column, but first some housekeeping:

1. What was the trade? New York gave up Dennis Smith Jr. and Charlotte’s second round pick this season (currently 40th, originally received in the Willy Hernangomez trade).

It’s sad but fitting that DSJ is little more than an afterthought today. It seemed like the Knicks wanted to give him a legitimate chance to earn a rotation spot in the preseason, but his offensive performance was just so uneven that they couldn’t justify it. With the 2020-21 campaign already a wash in Detroit, maybe he gets some low stakes minutes to try and earn a second NBA contract.

As for the pick, no draft selection is ever expendable, but this was close considering the Knicks have three other choices, all of which will be better than this one. Speaking of which…

2. What did Detroit really want? Kevin Knox, according to one source. Ian Begley reported yesterday that the Knicks were unwilling to include him in this deal, but his inclusion was certainly discussed. I get the sense they’re saving him for a bigger fish.

It was also reported that Detroit wanted its own 2021 second round pick back, so good job by Leon Rose keeping that out of the deal. D.Rose would not have been worth it.

Lastly, I’m told the Pistons could have had Frank Ntilikina instead of Dennis Smith Jr if they wanted him. They didn’t.

3. Why Rose, and why now? Those answers are intertwined: they moved on Rose because they could have him now.

According to a source with knowledge of the Knicks thinking, New York was set on upgrading at point guard before the deadline (duh), but there was enough uncertainty regarding who would be available, when they’d become available, and what they’d cost to make the Rose acquisition easier.

4. What about the money? Rose makes almost exactly $2 million more than DSJ, so the Knicks cap space will go down that much, to $15 million.

One note: because Rose was acquired using cap space, his salary can be combined with other players in another trade before the deadline (h/t Bobby Marks)

5. What’s next? The immediate question is about the rotation, where Marc Berman has already indicated that Austin Rivers might be out, and Woj noting that “Rivers is likely to become a player that contenders seek in trade talks.”

Speaking of trades, Ian Begley reported that at least one playoff contender has called about the availability of Elfrid Payton, although its worth remembering that he has a de facto no trade clause by virtue of how the Knicks re-signed him. Between Frank, Knox, Payton and Rivers, I’d put the O/U on how many of those four are here after the deadline at 1.5.

Looking even further ahead, Begley already posited that New York will likely look to re-sign Rose in the offseason. Given the market, it would seem like something in the $5-6 million annual range is appropriate.

For right now though, I’m betting Elf stays as the starter, and we see a backup five of Rose, Quickley, Burks, Toppin and Noel.

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1358820010114826240

I liked these thoughts from Jonathan

Rose Reunion: 5 Questions

There’s a lot to digest on the Rose trade, and it definitely has some big picture implications that I’ll get to in today’s column, but first some housekeeping:

1. What was the trade? New York gave up Dennis Smith Jr. and Charlotte’s second round pick this season (currently 40th, originally received in the Willy Hernangomez trade).

It’s sad but fitting that DSJ is little more than an afterthought today. It seemed like the Knicks wanted to give him a legitimate chance to earn a rotation spot in the preseason, but his offensive performance was just so uneven that they couldn’t justify it. With the 2020-21 campaign already a wash in Detroit, maybe he gets some low stakes minutes to try and earn a second NBA contract.

As for the pick, no draft selection is ever expendable, but this was close considering the Knicks have three other choices, all of which will be better than this one. Speaking of which…

2. What did Detroit really want? Kevin Knox, according to one source. Ian Begley reported yesterday that the Knicks were unwilling to include him in this deal, but his inclusion was certainly discussed. I get the sense they’re saving him for a bigger fish.

It was also reported that Detroit wanted its own 2021 second round pick back, so good job by Leon Rose keeping that out of the deal. D.Rose would not have been worth it.

Lastly, I’m told the Pistons could have had Frank Ntilikina instead of Dennis Smith Jr if they wanted him. They didn’t.

3. Why Rose, and why now? Those answers are intertwined: they moved on Rose because they could have him now.

According to a source with knowledge of the Knicks thinking, New York was set on upgrading at point guard before the deadline (duh), but there was enough uncertainty regarding who would be available, when they’d become available, and what they’d cost to make the Rose acquisition easier.

4. What about the money? Rose makes almost exactly $2 million more than DSJ, so the Knicks cap space will go down that much, to $15 million.

One note: because Rose was acquired using cap space, his salary can be combined with other players in another trade before the deadline (h/t Bobby Marks)

5. What’s next? The immediate question is about the rotation, where Marc Berman has already indicated that Austin Rivers might be out, and Woj noting that “Rivers is likely to become a player that contenders seek in trade talks.”

Speaking of trades, Ian Begley reported that at least one playoff contender has called about the availability of Elfrid Payton, although its worth remembering that he has a de facto no trade clause by virtue of how the Knicks re-signed him. Between Frank, Knox, Payton and Rivers, I’d put the O/U on how many of those four are here after the deadline at 1.5.

Looking even further ahead, Begley already posited that New York will likely look to re-sign Rose in the offseason. Given the market, it would seem like something in the $5-6 million annual range is appropriate.

For right now though, I’m betting Elf stays as the starter, and we see a backup five of Rose, Quickley, Burks, Toppin and Noel.

So now they're going to sign this declining 32 yo scoring guard with an injury history, bad defense and sketchy jumpshot an extension? I know they didn't give up anything, but this acquisitions really didn't need to be made.

Why you even worried about a thing like that? Just one man's opinion and as soon as the Knicks draft Cade with the Dallas pick, all the DRose resign thoughts go away

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/1358868201367568389

I know this doesn't set the world on fire, but sure as hell beats the sheehit out of tracking DSJ in the GLeague, IMHO.
Relatively cheap option to push Elf/Rivers out of the picture and maybe providing the possibility that watching DRose's lousy D will force Thibs to play Frankie?

knicks1248 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:I find it hard to believe the Pistons wanted DSJ who has shown nothing over Frank who at least has shown flashes. But I guess it doesn't matter -- neither was going to get out of Thibs' pet cemetery.

Teams look at DSJ voluntarily going to the G league, his work ethic, they look at what he did in DALLAS before the trade, and I'm sure Thibs pump him up as well.

DSJ has always been afforded an excuse for not living up to the hype: ACL, Luka, bad teammates, bad coaches, personal issues, etc. At what point do we just admit he's just not that good?

martin wrote:

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:I find it hard to believe the Pistons wanted DSJ who has shown nothing over Frank who at least has shown flashes. But I guess it doesn't matter -- neither was going to get out of Thibs' pet cemetery.

Teams look at DSJ voluntarily going to the G league, his work ethic, they look at what he did in DALLAS before the trade, and I'm sure Thibs pump him up as well.

Can we stop with this narrative that DSJ was good at Dallas. Being better than horrible is not the same as being good. You must be watching DSJ's high school mix-tape videos and pretending those are NBA videos. DSJ had upside because of his athleticism, not because of any skills he displayed. Highlight reel dunks don't make you a good player.

DSJ has always been afforded an excuse for not living up to the hype: ACL, Luka, bad teammates, bad coaches, personal issues, etc. At what point do we just admit he's just not that good?

Just after we all agree Frank is worth giving up on, so it'll be a while

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1358820010114826240

I liked these thoughts from Jonathan

Rose Reunion: 5 Questions

There’s a lot to digest on the Rose trade, and it definitely has some big picture implications that I’ll get to in today’s column, but first some housekeeping:

1. What was the trade? New York gave up Dennis Smith Jr. and Charlotte’s second round pick this season (currently 40th, originally received in the Willy Hernangomez trade).

It’s sad but fitting that DSJ is little more than an afterthought today. It seemed like the Knicks wanted to give him a legitimate chance to earn a rotation spot in the preseason, but his offensive performance was just so uneven that they couldn’t justify it. With the 2020-21 campaign already a wash in Detroit, maybe he gets some low stakes minutes to try and earn a second NBA contract.

As for the pick, no draft selection is ever expendable, but this was close considering the Knicks have three other choices, all of which will be better than this one. Speaking of which…

2. What did Detroit really want? Kevin Knox, according to one source. Ian Begley reported yesterday that the Knicks were unwilling to include him in this deal, but his inclusion was certainly discussed. I get the sense they’re saving him for a bigger fish.

It was also reported that Detroit wanted its own 2021 second round pick back, so good job by Leon Rose keeping that out of the deal. D.Rose would not have been worth it.

Lastly, I’m told the Pistons could have had Frank Ntilikina instead of Dennis Smith Jr if they wanted him. They didn’t.

3. Why Rose, and why now? Those answers are intertwined: they moved on Rose because they could have him now.

According to a source with knowledge of the Knicks thinking, New York was set on upgrading at point guard before the deadline (duh), but there was enough uncertainty regarding who would be available, when they’d become available, and what they’d cost to make the Rose acquisition easier.

4. What about the money? Rose makes almost exactly $2 million more than DSJ, so the Knicks cap space will go down that much, to $15 million.

One note: because Rose was acquired using cap space, his salary can be combined with other players in another trade before the deadline (h/t Bobby Marks)

5. What’s next? The immediate question is about the rotation, where Marc Berman has already indicated that Austin Rivers might be out, and Woj noting that “Rivers is likely to become a player that contenders seek in trade talks.”

Speaking of trades, Ian Begley reported that at least one playoff contender has called about the availability of Elfrid Payton, although its worth remembering that he has a de facto no trade clause by virtue of how the Knicks re-signed him. Between Frank, Knox, Payton and Rivers, I’d put the O/U on how many of those four are here after the deadline at 1.5.

Looking even further ahead, Begley already posited that New York will likely look to re-sign Rose in the offseason. Given the market, it would seem like something in the $5-6 million annual range is appropriate.

For right now though, I’m betting Elf stays as the starter, and we see a backup five of Rose, Quickley, Burks, Toppin and Noel.

I'm not a big fan of hearsay. Frankie haters could simply be playing games with Macri.

And we don't know what Detroit was trading *for*. We do know they were dumping DRose. And we know from experience that Rose is a simmering head case. In bringing in DRose, Thibs is doing the lockeroom no favors. DRose is hardly the player example I would be exposing young players to. But this is about Thibs, not DRose. The message is clear - loyalty pays, and pays, and pays even when its not earned.

The idea that they preferred DSJ over Frankie would raise more questions about their motives than Frankie's worth as a basketball player.

It could be as simple as saving a few bucks on a player they don't need to begin with.

Jmpasq wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1358820010114826240

I liked these thoughts from Jonathan

Rose Reunion: 5 Questions

There’s a lot to digest on the Rose trade, and it definitely has some big picture implications that I’ll get to in today’s column, but first some housekeeping:

1. What was the trade? New York gave up Dennis Smith Jr. and Charlotte’s second round pick this season (currently 40th, originally received in the Willy Hernangomez trade).

It’s sad but fitting that DSJ is little more than an afterthought today. It seemed like the Knicks wanted to give him a legitimate chance to earn a rotation spot in the preseason, but his offensive performance was just so uneven that they couldn’t justify it. With the 2020-21 campaign already a wash in Detroit, maybe he gets some low stakes minutes to try and earn a second NBA contract.

As for the pick, no draft selection is ever expendable, but this was close considering the Knicks have three other choices, all of which will be better than this one. Speaking of which…

2. What did Detroit really want? Kevin Knox, according to one source. Ian Begley reported yesterday that the Knicks were unwilling to include him in this deal, but his inclusion was certainly discussed. I get the sense they’re saving him for a bigger fish.

It was also reported that Detroit wanted its own 2021 second round pick back, so good job by Leon Rose keeping that out of the deal. D.Rose would not have been worth it.

Lastly, I’m told the Pistons could have had Frank Ntilikina instead of Dennis Smith Jr if they wanted him. They didn’t.

3. Why Rose, and why now? Those answers are intertwined: they moved on Rose because they could have him now.

According to a source with knowledge of the Knicks thinking, New York was set on upgrading at point guard before the deadline (duh), but there was enough uncertainty regarding who would be available, when they’d become available, and what they’d cost to make the Rose acquisition easier.

4. What about the money? Rose makes almost exactly $2 million more than DSJ, so the Knicks cap space will go down that much, to $15 million.

One note: because Rose was acquired using cap space, his salary can be combined with other players in another trade before the deadline (h/t Bobby Marks)

5. What’s next? The immediate question is about the rotation, where Marc Berman has already indicated that Austin Rivers might be out, and Woj noting that “Rivers is likely to become a player that contenders seek in trade talks.”

Speaking of trades, Ian Begley reported that at least one playoff contender has called about the availability of Elfrid Payton, although its worth remembering that he has a de facto no trade clause by virtue of how the Knicks re-signed him. Between Frank, Knox, Payton and Rivers, I’d put the O/U on how many of those four are here after the deadline at 1.5.

Looking even further ahead, Begley already posited that New York will likely look to re-sign Rose in the offseason. Given the market, it would seem like something in the $5-6 million annual range is appropriate.

For right now though, I’m betting Elf stays as the starter, and we see a backup five of Rose, Quickley, Burks, Toppin and Noel.

I'm not a big fan of hearsay. Frankie haters could simply be playing games with Macri.

And we don't know what Detroit was trading *for*. We do know they were dumping DRose. And we know from experience that Rose is a simmering head case. In bringing in DRose, Thibs is doing the lockeroom no favors. DRose is hardly the player example I would be exposing young players to. But this is about Thibs, not DRose. The message is clear - loyalty pays, and pays, and pays even when its not earned.

The idea that they preferred DSJ over Frankie would raise more questions about their motives than Frankie's worth as a basketball player.

It could be as simple as saving a few bucks on a player they don't need to begin with.

With no true alpha in Rose's eyes on this team he is going to chuck a shot every 2 possesions. He is going to destroy the teams chemistry. This is a horrendus move but not suprising. Don't know why I expected competence. He is going to freeze out Barrett such a huge mistake

Drose *is* battle-tested but I'm not convinced he's an upgrade anywhere. Just a Thibs bench-buddy.

I think Rivers, Bullock, and Burks are all higher-stakes trade bait now probably targeting the same teams who coveted DRose.

Quickley, Payton (no trade), Frankie, and DRose are the likely survivors along with whoever of the three isn't traded.

Hopefully (fingers crossed), DRose does no harm.

Jmpasq wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1358820010114826240

I liked these thoughts from Jonathan

Rose Reunion: 5 Questions

There’s a lot to digest on the Rose trade, and it definitely has some big picture implications that I’ll get to in today’s column, but first some housekeeping:

1. What was the trade? New York gave up Dennis Smith Jr. and Charlotte’s second round pick this season (currently 40th, originally received in the Willy Hernangomez trade).

It’s sad but fitting that DSJ is little more than an afterthought today. It seemed like the Knicks wanted to give him a legitimate chance to earn a rotation spot in the preseason, but his offensive performance was just so uneven that they couldn’t justify it. With the 2020-21 campaign already a wash in Detroit, maybe he gets some low stakes minutes to try and earn a second NBA contract.

As for the pick, no draft selection is ever expendable, but this was close considering the Knicks have three other choices, all of which will be better than this one. Speaking of which…

2. What did Detroit really want? Kevin Knox, according to one source. Ian Begley reported yesterday that the Knicks were unwilling to include him in this deal, but his inclusion was certainly discussed. I get the sense they’re saving him for a bigger fish.

It was also reported that Detroit wanted its own 2021 second round pick back, so good job by Leon Rose keeping that out of the deal. D.Rose would not have been worth it.

Lastly, I’m told the Pistons could have had Frank Ntilikina instead of Dennis Smith Jr if they wanted him. They didn’t.

3. Why Rose, and why now? Those answers are intertwined: they moved on Rose because they could have him now.

According to a source with knowledge of the Knicks thinking, New York was set on upgrading at point guard before the deadline (duh), but there was enough uncertainty regarding who would be available, when they’d become available, and what they’d cost to make the Rose acquisition easier.

4. What about the money? Rose makes almost exactly $2 million more than DSJ, so the Knicks cap space will go down that much, to $15 million.

One note: because Rose was acquired using cap space, his salary can be combined with other players in another trade before the deadline (h/t Bobby Marks)

5. What’s next? The immediate question is about the rotation, where Marc Berman has already indicated that Austin Rivers might be out, and Woj noting that “Rivers is likely to become a player that contenders seek in trade talks.”

Speaking of trades, Ian Begley reported that at least one playoff contender has called about the availability of Elfrid Payton, although its worth remembering that he has a de facto no trade clause by virtue of how the Knicks re-signed him. Between Frank, Knox, Payton and Rivers, I’d put the O/U on how many of those four are here after the deadline at 1.5.

Looking even further ahead, Begley already posited that New York will likely look to re-sign Rose in the offseason. Given the market, it would seem like something in the $5-6 million annual range is appropriate.

For right now though, I’m betting Elf stays as the starter, and we see a backup five of Rose, Quickley, Burks, Toppin and Noel.

I'm not a big fan of hearsay. Frankie haters could simply be playing games with Macri.

And we don't know what Detroit was trading *for*. We do know they were dumping DRose. And we know from experience that Rose is a simmering head case. In bringing in DRose, Thibs is doing the lockeroom no favors. DRose is hardly the player example I would be exposing young players to. But this is about Thibs, not DRose. The message is clear - loyalty pays, and pays, and pays even when its not earned.

The idea that they preferred DSJ over Frankie would raise more questions about their motives than Frankie's worth as a basketball player.

It could be as simple as saving a few bucks on a player they don't need to begin with.

With no true alpha in Rose's eyes on this team he is going to chuck a shot every 2 possesions. He is going to destroy the teams chemistry. This is a horrendus move but not suprising. Don't know why I expected competence. He is going to freeze out Barrett such a huge mistake

Drose *is* battle-tested but I'm not convinced he's an upgrade anywhere. Just a Thibs bench-buddy.

I think Rivers, Bullock, and Burks are all higher-stakes trade bait now probably targeting the same teams who coveted DRose.

Quickley, Payton (no trade), Frankie, and DRose are the likely survivors along with whoever of the three isn't traded.

Hopefully (fingers crossed), DRose does no harm.

He was a disaster here last time WTF are they thinking. His play is part of the reason Porzingis wanted out.

For me, the issue is only whether his minutes come from Quickley. I’m already upset with Rivers getting Quicks minutes. The only thing I can think of is that Thibs didn’t like Quick’s swimming act and cut his minutes. If Rose’s minutes come from Rivers or Elf, specifically when they are playing terrible, I have no issue here.

This FO (as opposed to years past) has a lot of credibility. Only thing bothering me is the quick hook on the yoots. But if the make the playoffs, all is forgiven.