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Wojo: Sources: Carmelo leaning towards leaving the Knicks
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H1AND1
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6/17/2014  1:52 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
babyKnicks wrote:
Nalod wrote:Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?

At some point GS gets in on a rumor.

Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson

Where's Dlee and Barnes???

In NY.

the more the news dies down, the more I'm optimistic about the knicks not only in 2016, but next year.

Chandler
Bargs
Amare
Odom
Shump
JR
Hardaway
Prigs

We add anybody of substance or KEEP MELO and we win the division.


That core without Melo is about a .300 team and with him a .400 team. It's basically an older version of last year's team.

throw away Bargs add Cole and without Felton you have a 50 win team. Also, did you see Diaw comments about Woodson? Coaching and a different system will help.


I doubt it. Woody coached the team roughly to the record all the metrics predicted he would.
Even if we do keep Melo, what FA is going to want to join him after we've had back to back .400 seasons?

Those metrics were based on Felton and Bargs contributions, no? That's a bunch of minutes that could go to better players. Throw in the fact that Tyson is in a contract year and I think the teams win 48-54 games if Melo is kept and Felton and Bargs do not play.

Dont the Knicks have $3 million dollars to spend on FA's? What all world talents are we getting for $3 million?

AUTOADVERT
tkf
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6/17/2014  2:11 PM
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
dk7th wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Not only is melo a low IQ player, he's also a Low IQ person in general. I just can't understand why this guy is hell bent on opting out with no real destinantion.

So Melo has been an elite scorer over the course of his career by being "dumb"? That doesn't make any sense.

an elite scorer? not with 45.5FG% and 54.7TS% he isn't elite. and he has averaged 20 shots per game to average 25 points.

does an elite scorer need 20 shots to score 25 points?

So I take it that Kobe was just an "elite" defender? Not an "elite" scorer?

If you say "yes" then I can buy that. You require high efficiency to be an elite scorer.

bryant was never an elite scorer he was a classic "volume scorer." his footwork for setting up his shots has been superb but his decisions have not been good and it's because his ballhandling was suspect. personally i thought he would have had a better career had he focussed on posting up more.

i guess he was an elite defender but i was never that impressed. great player but overrated nonetheless. the triangle saved him. it helped him be a better sharer of the ball than the "ball hog" epithet would describe. jackson once called him un-coachable and i can certainly see why.

I made a post about this yesterday and it somehow disappeared.

I will say this about kobe, excellent footwork and although he did take a lot of shots, only 6 times in his long career did he take more than 20 shots per game.. in two of those seasons, back to back he took 27 and 22 shots per game, but he averaged 35 and 31 ppg.. He shot a respectable 46 and 45% from the field. he shot 48 and 49% from two and the low 30's from three.. that hurt his overall percentage, considering he took almost 6 threes a game... a bit too much for me..

As a scorer, kobe had a high IQ offensively, a little undisciplined at times, but very creative and fierce.. he was as fierce as a competitor as there were... he also was a very good defender..

As you said, he was uncoachable at times and that may have hurt him from getting another ring at least...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Bonn1997
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6/17/2014  3:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/17/2014  3:16 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
babyKnicks wrote:
Nalod wrote:Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?

At some point GS gets in on a rumor.

Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson

Where's Dlee and Barnes???

In NY.

the more the news dies down, the more I'm optimistic about the knicks not only in 2016, but next year.

Chandler
Bargs
Amare
Odom
Shump
JR
Hardaway
Prigs

We add anybody of substance or KEEP MELO and we win the division.


That core without Melo is about a .300 team and with him a .400 team. It's basically an older version of last year's team.

throw away Bargs add Cole and without Felton you have a 50 win team. Also, did you see Diaw comments about Woodson? Coaching and a different system will help.


I doubt it. Woody coached the team roughly to the record all the metrics predicted he would.
Even if we do keep Melo, what FA is going to want to join him after we've had back to back .400 seasons?

Those metrics were based on Felton and Bargs contributions, no? That's a bunch of minutes that could go to better players. Throw in the fact that Tyson is in a contract year and I think the teams win 48-54 games if Melo is kept and Felton and Bargs do not play.


What better players? He's talking about next year. How are you going to get these players?
Based on looking at the win shares, if Felton's minutes had gone to an average NBA player, the team would have had about 2.2 more wins. Replacing Bargs with an average player would add another 1.1. It's not easy for a team in a our situation to even add average players, though.
Then, you have to factor in that we have more players on the downhill than on the growing ends of their careers though. So most of these players will be worse next year.
TheSage
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6/17/2014  4:08 PM
Are wojo's sources the same ones as Mehta's or Joe Blows
knicks1248
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6/17/2014  9:23 PM
Here's a great Article

Forget Carmelo, Free Agent That Heat Has to Land Now Is LeBron

A funny thing happened on Carmelo Anthony’s way to South Beach.

Last week everyone was buzzing about the ESPN report that the Miami Heat brass was talking about getting Carmelo Anthony to bring his talents, too, even if that meant getting LeBron James, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh to take yet another discount for their talents.

You could almost hear Heat Pres. Pat Riley, the recruiting legend who dumped his five championship rings like rocks on a conference table in front of LeBron James in Cleveland in 2010:

Hey, what are we in this for, to get even more money than we already have, or to be remembered forever?

Of course, that stuff works ever so much better when you’re the envy of the NBA, rather than roadkill for the Spurs, who rolled over the suddenly old, toothless Heat once more Sunday in San Antonio in five ever more one-sided games.

Game 4 dismay, before Game 5 dismay. (McClatchy-Tribune Photo)
Game 4 dismay, before Game 5 dismay. (McClatchy-Tribune Photo)

Suddenly, the free agent the Heat must land isn’t Melo, but LeBron, whose future in Miami is no longer as assured as everyone, including Bron, thought it was.

James’ 2010 free agency was preceded by two years of feverish speculation centered in New York. Knick fans held annual LeBronstock Festivals for his visits. Nike, his sneaker partner, made no secret of its preference, launching one of his shoes there, the dark blue pinstriped one paying tribute to Bron’s favorite baseball team, the Yankees.

In contrast, his 2013 free agency looked like such a non-event, even James, who never hinted at his intentions in 2010, said he in February that he couldn’t imagine leaving.

To his credit, James’ focus is on the present. In 2010 when his No. 1 seeded Cavaliers fell, 4-2 to the given-up-for-dead Celtics as he played left-handed with a right elbow that kept locking up–and was torched as a mercenary quitter before ever saying a word about taking his talents to South Beach–he seemed stunned at the season’s sudden end, without a clue about what he’d do.

Not that his Cavaliers had anything like the Heat’s prospects as Miami made its fourth Finals appearance in James’ four seasons, coming off back-to-back titles. At the end, Bron looked even more stunned, sitting on the bench with his head in his hands after leaving with 6:30 left, unable even to make it competitive.

Take a hard look at the Heat, as everyone suddenly began to, and there’s little but their three superstars, one of whom–Dwyane Wade–is 32, has seen his scoring average drop annually for five seasons, sat out 31 games this season to be ready for the playoffs but looked 42 in Games 4 and 5, scoring 21 points total, shooting 7-for-25.

What else is there? A bunch of aging, limited role players, who will no longer include Shane Battier, who’s retiring, and, possibly, Ray Allen, the hero of 2013, who’s thinking about it.

After Game 5, it was no longer the sentimental LeBron, leaving toward staying, while Bosh kept voicing the hope that they would remain together. Instead, it was the stolidly non-commital LeBron, taking back the hopeful hints he had given out.

Q: LeBron, you said in February you couldn’t picture yourself leaving Miami. Do you still feel that way?’

James: “I mean, I will deal with my summer when I get to that point. Me and my team will sit down and deal with it. I love Miami. My family loves it. But obviously right now that’s not even what I’m thinking about. You guys are trying to find answers and I’m not going to give you one.”

Notes Brian Windhorst, the writer who attended James’ high school in Akron, covered him as a prep, moved to Cleveland and covered him as a Cavalier, then went to ESPN to stay on the LeBron beat in Miami: “I really, truly believe that LeBron hasn’t considered it. So in this period now between now and the end of the draft, you’re going to see LeBron meeting with his team.

“And when he says ‘his team,’ he’s not talking about the Heat. He’s talking about his agents. He’s talking about his business managers and close friends [the three who, with James, call themselves the Four Horsemen: Maverick Carter, the captain of Bron's first high school team and now the slick Puff Daddy figure out front; Randy Sims, the diminutive personal assistant; and Rich Paul, the rotund one who moved back to Cleveland and is thought to be behind the years-long speculation talk about Bron coming home]….

“What LeBron decides doesn’t mean that Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh will do the same. In 2010, they all were all represented by the same agency. LeBron now has his own agency and he will not necessarily act in concert with them.”

Movers of mountains that the Heat brass have been, their options are limited. The team is about to become the first to pay the dread repeater tax, which kicks the rate for its $14 million overage just under 300% (levies rise by $5 million increments) or a $38.8 million bill.

If James, Wade and Bosh opt in and return, their salary will be $61.4 million ($20.6 million for Bron and Bosh, $20.2 million for Wade). The projected cap is only $63.2 million. The Heat can execeed it by signing players to exceptions and re-signing their own, but can spend only $16.3 million on another 12 players before triggering the repeater tax again.

Last season, they paid their other 12 players $23.7 million. A similar tab would mean an $85.1 million payroll, an $8 million overage. Fortunately for the Heat, with bumper league revenue, the tax threshhold rose $5.9 million over projections to $77 million, so the team would get away with only a $21 million tab.

Of course, how to keep costs down while improving the team to James’ satisfaction? “Ah,” as Hamlet said, “there’s the rub.”

The notion of asking the the Big Three to take less is dead. Bron isn’t likely to sign long-term with a raise, much less with a cut. There will be no big fix for the team, only the hope of better health on Wade’s part, better performance on all their parts, and, most important, keeping them together to revamp another day.

The Heat now owns the sentimental tug–or one of them–on James’ heart. Despite being trashed for going to Miami, he’s actually a loyal guy whose first inclination is to stay, even in the ugly duckling market of Cleveland. In a story that somehow never got out, he tried to to the end to get Wade or Chris Bosh to join him, before realizing the only star who wanted to be there was him.

If James seemed to have no viable option in February as the Lakers messed up their salary cap giving Kobe Bryant a $48 million extension and the Cavaliers imploded, there is now–Cleveland, back from the dead after winning yet another lottery, which is expected to take Kansas’ seven-foot equation-changer, Joel Embiid, to go with Kyrie Irving and a talented, if volatile, young roster.

(All the other glamor destinations in the press are far-fetched. The Clippers, whom insiders think LeBron would like to play for, have no cap room. The Knicks have no cap room. Chicago could melt itself down for LeBron, rather than Melo, but there’s that business about 2010 when Derrick Rose pointedly refused to try to help recruit Bron.)

Riley’s best argument now would seem to be to drop that great silver-haired head, look soulfully into James’ eyes and say:


Trust me. Come back next season to see where we are in a year, with the big 2015 free agent class coming up and the ability to create as much cap space as we need.

If that’s still the way to bet, the ground just started trembling under the Heat. If it’s not The Big One yet, this isn’t over.

ES
yellowboy90
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6/17/2014  9:43 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
babyKnicks wrote:
Nalod wrote:Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?

At some point GS gets in on a rumor.

Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson

Where's Dlee and Barnes???

In NY.

the more the news dies down, the more I'm optimistic about the knicks not only in 2016, but next year.

Chandler
Bargs
Amare
Odom
Shump
JR
Hardaway
Prigs

We add anybody of substance or KEEP MELO and we win the division.


That core without Melo is about a .300 team and with him a .400 team. It's basically an older version of last year's team.

throw away Bargs add Cole and without Felton you have a 50 win team. Also, did you see Diaw comments about Woodson? Coaching and a different system will help.


I doubt it. Woody coached the team roughly to the record all the metrics predicted he would.
Even if we do keep Melo, what FA is going to want to join him after we've had back to back .400 seasons?

Those metrics were based on Felton and Bargs contributions, no? That's a bunch of minutes that could go to better players. Throw in the fact that Tyson is in a contract year and I think the teams win 48-54 games if Melo is kept and Felton and Bargs do not play.


What better players? He's talking about next year. How are you going to get these players?
Based on looking at the win shares, if Felton's minutes had gone to an average NBA player, the team would have had about 2.2 more wins. Replacing Bargs with an average player would add another 1.1. It's not easy for a team in a our situation to even add average players, though.
Then, you have to factor in that we have more players on the downhill than on the growing ends of their careers though. So most of these players will be worse next year.

You mean there are no better players than Felton and Bargs to be had. Also, where you get those stats if you do not mind linking them.

Bonn1997
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6/17/2014  10:13 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/17/2014  10:14 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
babyKnicks wrote:
Nalod wrote:Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?

At some point GS gets in on a rumor.

Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson

Where's Dlee and Barnes???

In NY.

the more the news dies down, the more I'm optimistic about the knicks not only in 2016, but next year.

Chandler
Bargs
Amare
Odom
Shump
JR
Hardaway
Prigs

We add anybody of substance or KEEP MELO and we win the division.


That core without Melo is about a .300 team and with him a .400 team. It's basically an older version of last year's team.

throw away Bargs add Cole and without Felton you have a 50 win team. Also, did you see Diaw comments about Woodson? Coaching and a different system will help.


I doubt it. Woody coached the team roughly to the record all the metrics predicted he would.
Even if we do keep Melo, what FA is going to want to join him after we've had back to back .400 seasons?

Those metrics were based on Felton and Bargs contributions, no? That's a bunch of minutes that could go to better players. Throw in the fact that Tyson is in a contract year and I think the teams win 48-54 games if Melo is kept and Felton and Bargs do not play.


What better players? He's talking about next year. How are you going to get these players?
Based on looking at the win shares, if Felton's minutes had gone to an average NBA player, the team would have had about 2.2 more wins. Replacing Bargs with an average player would add another 1.1. It's not easy for a team in a our situation to even add average players, though.
Then, you have to factor in that we have more players on the downhill than on the growing ends of their careers though. So most of these players will be worse next year.

You mean there are no better players than Felton and Bargs to be had. Also, where you get those stats if you do not mind linking them.


Better players for the vet min? Maybe slightly.
I'm looking at the total win shares (from basketball-reference.com) and adjusting them based on if the player's WS/48 was at the league average (.1)
So, Felton contributed 2.0 win shares and his WS/48 was .048. So if he had played the same minutes but at a level of average productivity, he would have had (.1/.048)*2.0 win shares, which equals 4.2. I then did the same for Bargnani.
Bonn1997
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6/17/2014  10:17 PM
Actually, it looks like those were Shumpert's #s. My vision must be off! Felton's were almost the same though. He contributed 2.2 win shares and an average player that played the same number of minutes would have contributed 4.2 actually. I just did the math now.
nixluva
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6/17/2014  10:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/17/2014  10:36 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:Better players for the vet min? Maybe slightly.
I'm looking at the total win shares (from basketball-reference.com) and adjusting them based on if the player's WS/48 was at the league average (.1)
So, Felton contributed 2.0 win shares and his WS/48 was .048. So if he had played the same minutes but at a level of average productivity, he would have had (.1/.048)*2.0 win shares, which equals 4.2. I then did the same for Bargnani.

MEH! All this shows me is that we had HORRID coaching and did not maximize the production of our players. Not to mention the injuries which didn't help. However, most of all this team really needed better decision making on who should be playing and how this team should be playing. An underperforming player like Felton should not be allowed to bring the whole team down.

We watched this team play some of the most PUTRID BB in the league given the talent on the roster. Guys were not used to the best of their abilities and would be bumping into each other, standing and watching, not executing properly and had no recognition of time and score. I mean it was a total disaster. Forget about JR being allowed to act like an ass. A huge let down in coaching and leadership.

There is much more that can be done with much of the same players. I like the potential of guys like Cole, Tyler, Shump, THJ and Murry as well. If you add a decent FA to that mix it's a good start. We could see a deal for Tyson made in order to get a pick. If Fish is smart he'll look to use Bargs more like a C which was surprisingly his best role last year. When Tyson went down Bargs did a very good job holding down the C spot. he's a very good man defender against C's and did show some improvement in help D. Bargs in the Triangle might really help his game as well. It's not all doom and gloom.

yellowboy90
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6/17/2014  11:16 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:Actually, it looks like those were Shumpert's #s. My vision must be off! Felton's were almost the same though. He contributed 2.2 win shares and an average player that played the same number of minutes would have contributed 4.2 actually. I just did the math now.

Avg player or avg pg? Des it matter. Also, those wins add up when you exchange average players for Martin, Beno, and Metta as well.
tkf
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6/17/2014  11:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/17/2014  11:53 PM
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Better players for the vet min? Maybe slightly.
I'm looking at the total win shares (from basketball-reference.com) and adjusting them based on if the player's WS/48 was at the league average (.1)
So, Felton contributed 2.0 win shares and his WS/48 was .048. So if he had played the same minutes but at a level of average productivity, he would have had (.1/.048)*2.0 win shares, which equals 4.2. I then did the same for Bargnani.

MEH! All this shows me is that we had HORRID coaching and did not maximize the production of our players. Not to mention the injuries which didn't help. However, most of all this team really needed better decision making on who should be playing and how this team should be playing. An underperforming player like Felton should not be allowed to bring the whole team down.

We watched this team play some of the most PUTRID BB in the league given the talent on the roster. Guys were not used to the best of their abilities and would be bumping into each other, standing and watching, not executing properly and had no recognition of time and score. I mean it was a total disaster. Forget about JR being allowed to act like an ass. A huge let down in coaching and leadership.

There is much more that can be done with much of the same players. I like the potential of guys like Cole, Tyler, Shump, THJ and Murry as well. If you add a decent FA to that mix it's a good start. We could see a deal for Tyson made in order to get a pick. If Fish is smart he'll look to use Bargs more like a C which was surprisingly his best role last year. When Tyson went down Bargs did a very good job holding down the C spot. he's a very good man defender against C's and did show some improvement in help D. Bargs in the Triangle might really help his game as well. It's not all doom and gloom.

yea, I can't wait to see guys like tyler, cole , shump and THJ alongside a nice vet. I mean those guys have soooooooo much potential. I can see 52 wins.. i am pumped... add in a healthy BARGS and hell, who knows what the heck can happen..

ok, I tried it, enough of that.. I just can't do it.. can't put on the homer hat... just don't work.. LOL

so let me ask you this, what do you see in those guys that makes you believe they will give this franchise a good start? this is why I wanted to sign guys like DJ augustine last year, guys who are still somewhat young but have proven worth in a rotation in the league.. none of those guys so far have proven they are rotation worthy. Let me retract, other than THJ and he still a bit shakey defensively, I don't see a rotation player in that group... shumpert was one, but he has a lot to prove... critical year for him if you ask me..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
nixluva
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6/18/2014  3:22 AM
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Better players for the vet min? Maybe slightly.
I'm looking at the total win shares (from basketball-reference.com) and adjusting them based on if the player's WS/48 was at the league average (.1)
So, Felton contributed 2.0 win shares and his WS/48 was .048. So if he had played the same minutes but at a level of average productivity, he would have had (.1/.048)*2.0 win shares, which equals 4.2. I then did the same for Bargnani.

MEH! All this shows me is that we had HORRID coaching and did not maximize the production of our players. Not to mention the injuries which didn't help. However, most of all this team really needed better decision making on who should be playing and how this team should be playing. An underperforming player like Felton should not be allowed to bring the whole team down.

We watched this team play some of the most PUTRID BB in the league given the talent on the roster. Guys were not used to the best of their abilities and would be bumping into each other, standing and watching, not executing properly and had no recognition of time and score. I mean it was a total disaster. Forget about JR being allowed to act like an ass. A huge let down in coaching and leadership.

There is much more that can be done with much of the same players. I like the potential of guys like Cole, Tyler, Shump, THJ and Murry as well. If you add a decent FA to that mix it's a good start. We could see a deal for Tyson made in order to get a pick. If Fish is smart he'll look to use Bargs more like a C which was surprisingly his best role last year. When Tyson went down Bargs did a very good job holding down the C spot. he's a very good man defender against C's and did show some improvement in help D. Bargs in the Triangle might really help his game as well. It's not all doom and gloom.

yea, I can't wait to see guys like tyler, cole , shump and THJ alongside a nice vet. I mean those guys have soooooooo much potential. I can see 52 wins.. i am pumped... add in a healthy BARGS and hell, who knows what the heck can happen..

ok, I tried it, enough of that.. I just can't do it.. can't put on the homer hat... just don't work.. LOL

so let me ask you this, what do you see in those guys that makes you believe they will give this franchise a good start? this is why I wanted to sign guys like DJ augustine last year, guys who are still somewhat young but have proven worth in a rotation in the league.. none of those guys so far have proven they are rotation worthy. Let me retract, other than THJ and he still a bit shakey defensively, I don't see a rotation player in that group... shumpert was one, but he has a lot to prove... critical year for him if you ask me..

1st of all Shumpert can and will play much better when given a role that fits his skills. I think he's going to be motivated and more appreciated by PJax and Fisher. Phil and Fisher fully understand what kind of player Shump is and how to teach him the right approach to the game.

THJ also showed a lot of talent in his rookie year. He needs some real coaching to help him understand how to defend properly. I saw completely awful defensive technique and as athletic as he is there's no reason he can't be a decent defender at least. In terms of his offense he clearly has talent and just needs to learn how to play in a team concept and take better shots.

Cole is actually not a bad big man at all. He will benefit from proper coaching and a system to fall back on. Dude was showing real talent on D and the boards by the end of the season. He even tried to score more and even tho it was often ugly he was more effective being more confident.

Murry has defensive talent and can improve his jumper with work. Most young guards eventually improve their shot with work. He'll also benefit from playing in the Triangle. He won't have to direct the offense since that's not a huge part of the Triangle. He can use his smooth moves to cut to the basket and finish. He's not that far off being a good role player as another good defensive guard.

Tyler can be a bit wild, but he does in fact have lots of talent. He's got skills and athletic ability. He just needs to learn how to apply that to the team game.

I think it's a shame that because of the awful coaching we had that so many Knick fans can't see that there are some decent prospects already on the team. Not saying they're stars, but you have to have role players on any team and some of these guys can stick. I'm just interested in seeing how good they can be with real support from the coaching staff. They got poor direction last year. These same guys will be much better with the clarity that comes with a system to play in. They'll know what to do and when as opposed to just winging it. These guys aren't talented enough to just make it up as they go.

Bonn1997
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6/18/2014  6:40 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Actually, it looks like those were Shumpert's #s. My vision must be off! Felton's were almost the same though. He contributed 2.2 win shares and an average player that played the same number of minutes would have contributed 4.2 actually. I just did the math now.

Avg player or avg pg? Des it matter. Also, those wins add up when you exchange average players for Martin, Beno, and Metta as well.

Sure, the point is replacing any one or two bad players with an average player won't make a big difference. Replacing an average player with a very good (but not outstanding) player won't make a huge difference either. Using the win share approach, if you added Melo to an exactly .500 team, the team would have gone about 45-37 or 46-36.
jrodmc
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6/18/2014  9:12 AM
tkf wrote:yea, I can't wait to see guys like tyler, cole , shump and THJ alongside a nice vet. I mean those guys have soooooooo much potential. I can see 52 wins.. i am pumped... add in a healthy BARGS and hell, who knows what the heck can happen..

ok, I tried it, enough of that.. I just can't do it.. can't put on the homer hat... just don't work.. LOL

But, ...but....I almost bought in to that whole first couple of sentences! I mean, "a hellthy BARGS!" "i am pumped!"
tkf! pure gold, my man, pure gold

martin, I humbly ask that this post be stickied somehow and left on the home page as a permanent ad banner. If that's even possible.

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
6/18/2014  12:31 PM
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Better players for the vet min? Maybe slightly.
I'm looking at the total win shares (from basketball-reference.com) and adjusting them based on if the player's WS/48 was at the league average (.1)
So, Felton contributed 2.0 win shares and his WS/48 was .048. So if he had played the same minutes but at a level of average productivity, he would have had (.1/.048)*2.0 win shares, which equals 4.2. I then did the same for Bargnani.

MEH! All this shows me is that we had HORRID coaching and did not maximize the production of our players. Not to mention the injuries which didn't help. However, most of all this team really needed better decision making on who should be playing and how this team should be playing. An underperforming player like Felton should not be allowed to bring the whole team down.

We watched this team play some of the most PUTRID BB in the league given the talent on the roster. Guys were not used to the best of their abilities and would be bumping into each other, standing and watching, not executing properly and had no recognition of time and score. I mean it was a total disaster. Forget about JR being allowed to act like an ass. A huge let down in coaching and leadership.

There is much more that can be done with much of the same players. I like the potential of guys like Cole, Tyler, Shump, THJ and Murry as well. If you add a decent FA to that mix it's a good start. We could see a deal for Tyson made in order to get a pick. If Fish is smart he'll look to use Bargs more like a C which was surprisingly his best role last year. When Tyson went down Bargs did a very good job holding down the C spot. he's a very good man defender against C's and did show some improvement in help D. Bargs in the Triangle might really help his game as well. It's not all doom and gloom.

yea, I can't wait to see guys like tyler, cole , shump and THJ alongside a nice vet. I mean those guys have soooooooo much potential. I can see 52 wins.. i am pumped... add in a healthy BARGS and hell, who knows what the heck can happen..

ok, I tried it, enough of that.. I just can't do it.. can't put on the homer hat... just don't work.. LOL

so let me ask you this, what do you see in those guys that makes you believe they will give this franchise a good start? this is why I wanted to sign guys like DJ augustine last year, guys who are still somewhat young but have proven worth in a rotation in the league.. none of those guys so far have proven they are rotation worthy. Let me retract, other than THJ and he still a bit shakey defensively, I don't see a rotation player in that group... shumpert was one, but he has a lot to prove... critical year for him if you ask me..

Boris Diaw is the perfect example of how a player with his skill set can only be maximize in a certain systems. HE played like Crap under Mike Woodson, In fact during the Exit interviews in ATL, MIKe woodson told him he needs him to shoot more, he told mike woodson I don't want play for you and the system you run, he was thrown in as and extra in a trade with the suns for Joe Johnson.

Under MDA's pass first system in thrived playing all 5 positions and helping the team to 60 wins, then was traded to the bobcats, where Paul silas wanted him to shoot more, Once again his numbers plummeted, and he almost dissapperead, after excepting a Buy out
he Goes to the spurs has a awsome year in the pass first system and was a major major factor in the championship.

Don't ever tell me a coach and a system isn't the reason players are succesful

ES
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
6/18/2014  12:44 PM
nixluva wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Better players for the vet min? Maybe slightly.
I'm looking at the total win shares (from basketball-reference.com) and adjusting them based on if the player's WS/48 was at the league average (.1)
So, Felton contributed 2.0 win shares and his WS/48 was .048. So if he had played the same minutes but at a level of average productivity, he would have had (.1/.048)*2.0 win shares, which equals 4.2. I then did the same for Bargnani.

MEH! All this shows me is that we had HORRID coaching and did not maximize the production of our players. Not to mention the injuries which didn't help. However, most of all this team really needed better decision making on who should be playing and how this team should be playing. An underperforming player like Felton should not be allowed to bring the whole team down.

We watched this team play some of the most PUTRID BB in the league given the talent on the roster. Guys were not used to the best of their abilities and would be bumping into each other, standing and watching, not executing properly and had no recognition of time and score. I mean it was a total disaster. Forget about JR being allowed to act like an ass. A huge let down in coaching and leadership.

There is much more that can be done with much of the same players. I like the potential of guys like Cole, Tyler, Shump, THJ and Murry as well. If you add a decent FA to that mix it's a good start. We could see a deal for Tyson made in order to get a pick. If Fish is smart he'll look to use Bargs more like a C which was surprisingly his best role last year. When Tyson went down Bargs did a very good job holding down the C spot. he's a very good man defender against C's and did show some improvement in help D. Bargs in the Triangle might really help his game as well. It's not all doom and gloom.

yea, I can't wait to see guys like tyler, cole , shump and THJ alongside a nice vet. I mean those guys have soooooooo much potential. I can see 52 wins.. i am pumped... add in a healthy BARGS and hell, who knows what the heck can happen..

ok, I tried it, enough of that.. I just can't do it.. can't put on the homer hat... just don't work.. LOL

so let me ask you this, what do you see in those guys that makes you believe they will give this franchise a good start? this is why I wanted to sign guys like DJ augustine last year, guys who are still somewhat young but have proven worth in a rotation in the league.. none of those guys so far have proven they are rotation worthy. Let me retract, other than THJ and he still a bit shakey defensively, I don't see a rotation player in that group... shumpert was one, but he has a lot to prove... critical year for him if you ask me..

1st of all Shumpert can and will play much better when given a role that fits his skills. I think he's going to be motivated and more appreciated by PJax and Fisher. Phil and Fisher fully understand what kind of player Shump is and how to teach him the right approach to the game.

THJ also showed a lot of talent in his rookie year. He needs some real coaching to help him understand how to defend properly. I saw completely awful defensive technique and as athletic as he is there's no reason he can't be a decent defender at least. In terms of his offense he clearly has talent and just needs to learn how to play in a team concept and take better shots.

Cole is actually not a bad big man at all. He will benefit from proper coaching and a system to fall back on. Dude was showing real talent on D and the boards by the end of the season. He even tried to score more and even tho it was often ugly he was more effective being more confident.

Murry has defensive talent and can improve his jumper with work. Most young guards eventually improve their shot with work. He'll also benefit from playing in the Triangle. He won't have to direct the offense since that's not a huge part of the Triangle. He can use his smooth moves to cut to the basket and finish. He's not that far off being a good role player as another good defensive guard.

Tyler can be a bit wild, but he does in fact have lots of talent. He's got skills and athletic ability. He just needs to learn how to apply that to the team game.

I think it's a shame that because of the awful coaching we had that so many Knick fans can't see that there are some decent prospects already on the team. Not saying they're stars, but you have to have role players on any team and some of these guys can stick. I'm just interested in seeing how good they can be with real support from the coaching staff. They got poor direction last year. These same guys will be much better with the clarity that comes with a system to play in. They'll know what to do and when as opposed to just winging it. These guys aren't talented enough to just make it up as they go.

I find it funny how people were so ready to dump on dantoni and praise woodson as a guy who
"held guys accountable", yet this team became the biggest circus since the isaih days.. LOL..

shumpert needs coaching true, but shumpert around here I think is bit overrated. it it is not all on woodson, actually woodson pointed his biggest flaws, and one of them was his inability to get good looks for himself... this is on shumpert to work on, have you seen any growth? again, don't put that all on woodson.. we need to be careful, because if we are going to fault woodson we need to implicate the offense he installed.. iso ball, and guess who gets most of the iso plays?

the other guys we have, murry and cole aldrich are end of the bench players....

one thing we need to be careful of is making phil and fisher out to be saviors.. we don't have a lot of talent and the young talent we have is just OK, and I am talking shumpert and THJ... they are OK, marginal talents right now marginal....


Trust me if we don't bring any of them back, I bet you won't be up in arms about it, but instead latching yourself onto the new crop of guys that come in... and rationalize how those new individuals fit into phils and fishers system...

let me ask you this, I just want to see how you are rating these guys... THJ and shumpert, do you see them on the same level as guys like Bradley beal, Michael carter williams, lance stephenson, victor oladipo?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
6/18/2014  12:53 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Better players for the vet min? Maybe slightly.
I'm looking at the total win shares (from basketball-reference.com) and adjusting them based on if the player's WS/48 was at the league average (.1)
So, Felton contributed 2.0 win shares and his WS/48 was .048. So if he had played the same minutes but at a level of average productivity, he would have had (.1/.048)*2.0 win shares, which equals 4.2. I then did the same for Bargnani.

MEH! All this shows me is that we had HORRID coaching and did not maximize the production of our players. Not to mention the injuries which didn't help. However, most of all this team really needed better decision making on who should be playing and how this team should be playing. An underperforming player like Felton should not be allowed to bring the whole team down.

We watched this team play some of the most PUTRID BB in the league given the talent on the roster. Guys were not used to the best of their abilities and would be bumping into each other, standing and watching, not executing properly and had no recognition of time and score. I mean it was a total disaster. Forget about JR being allowed to act like an ass. A huge let down in coaching and leadership.

There is much more that can be done with much of the same players. I like the potential of guys like Cole, Tyler, Shump, THJ and Murry as well. If you add a decent FA to that mix it's a good start. We could see a deal for Tyson made in order to get a pick. If Fish is smart he'll look to use Bargs more like a C which was surprisingly his best role last year. When Tyson went down Bargs did a very good job holding down the C spot. he's a very good man defender against C's and did show some improvement in help D. Bargs in the Triangle might really help his game as well. It's not all doom and gloom.

yea, I can't wait to see guys like tyler, cole , shump and THJ alongside a nice vet. I mean those guys have soooooooo much potential. I can see 52 wins.. i am pumped... add in a healthy BARGS and hell, who knows what the heck can happen..

ok, I tried it, enough of that.. I just can't do it.. can't put on the homer hat... just don't work.. LOL

so let me ask you this, what do you see in those guys that makes you believe they will give this franchise a good start? this is why I wanted to sign guys like DJ augustine last year, guys who are still somewhat young but have proven worth in a rotation in the league.. none of those guys so far have proven they are rotation worthy. Let me retract, other than THJ and he still a bit shakey defensively, I don't see a rotation player in that group... shumpert was one, but he has a lot to prove... critical year for him if you ask me..

Boris Diaw is the perfect example of how a player with his skill set can only be maximize in a certain systems. HE played like Crap under Mike Woodson, In fact during the Exit interviews in ATL, MIKe woodson told him he needs him to shoot more, he told mike woodson I don't want play for you and the system you run, he was thrown in as and extra in a trade with the suns for Joe Johnson.

Under MDA's pass first system in thrived playing all 5 positions and helping the team to 60 wins, then was traded to the bobcats, where Paul silas wanted him to shoot more, Once again his numbers plummeted, and he almost dissapperead, after excepting a Buy out
he Goes to the spurs has a awsome year in the pass first system and was a major major factor in the championship.

Don't ever tell me a coach and a system isn't the reason players are succesful

I was a season ticket holder when diaw was drafted by Atlanta, his game was so raw, he played under stotts for a year and woodson for just one year.. he didn't play great under either coach as his game and body was still developing, he was a tall, lanky kid with not much confidence in his offense. not sure how you can put this on woodson..

under dantoni, his skill set was exposed and used properly, but diaw was also older, bigger, had some NBA years under his belt...

but I don't get your point.. MDA and the spurs system is completely different yet he thrived under both? remember diaw also had a problem with his weight and getting in shape, that has hurt him a bit in his career..

what is the point with shumpert? he played well under dantoni defensively actually, under woodson he seemed to regress... yet woodson was the defensive guru supposedly...

I think a huge problem with shumpert is shumpert and the fact that maybe he is just an OK player and not paul george 2.0

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
martin
Posts: 76461
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Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
6/18/2014  1:16 PM
tkf wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Better players for the vet min? Maybe slightly.
I'm looking at the total win shares (from basketball-reference.com) and adjusting them based on if the player's WS/48 was at the league average (.1)
So, Felton contributed 2.0 win shares and his WS/48 was .048. So if he had played the same minutes but at a level of average productivity, he would have had (.1/.048)*2.0 win shares, which equals 4.2. I then did the same for Bargnani.

MEH! All this shows me is that we had HORRID coaching and did not maximize the production of our players. Not to mention the injuries which didn't help. However, most of all this team really needed better decision making on who should be playing and how this team should be playing. An underperforming player like Felton should not be allowed to bring the whole team down.

We watched this team play some of the most PUTRID BB in the league given the talent on the roster. Guys were not used to the best of their abilities and would be bumping into each other, standing and watching, not executing properly and had no recognition of time and score. I mean it was a total disaster. Forget about JR being allowed to act like an ass. A huge let down in coaching and leadership.

There is much more that can be done with much of the same players. I like the potential of guys like Cole, Tyler, Shump, THJ and Murry as well. If you add a decent FA to that mix it's a good start. We could see a deal for Tyson made in order to get a pick. If Fish is smart he'll look to use Bargs more like a C which was surprisingly his best role last year. When Tyson went down Bargs did a very good job holding down the C spot. he's a very good man defender against C's and did show some improvement in help D. Bargs in the Triangle might really help his game as well. It's not all doom and gloom.

yea, I can't wait to see guys like tyler, cole , shump and THJ alongside a nice vet. I mean those guys have soooooooo much potential. I can see 52 wins.. i am pumped... add in a healthy BARGS and hell, who knows what the heck can happen..

ok, I tried it, enough of that.. I just can't do it.. can't put on the homer hat... just don't work.. LOL

so let me ask you this, what do you see in those guys that makes you believe they will give this franchise a good start? this is why I wanted to sign guys like DJ augustine last year, guys who are still somewhat young but have proven worth in a rotation in the league.. none of those guys so far have proven they are rotation worthy. Let me retract, other than THJ and he still a bit shakey defensively, I don't see a rotation player in that group... shumpert was one, but he has a lot to prove... critical year for him if you ask me..

Boris Diaw is the perfect example of how a player with his skill set can only be maximize in a certain systems. HE played like Crap under Mike Woodson, In fact during the Exit interviews in ATL, MIKe woodson told him he needs him to shoot more, he told mike woodson I don't want play for you and the system you run, he was thrown in as and extra in a trade with the suns for Joe Johnson.

Under MDA's pass first system in thrived playing all 5 positions and helping the team to 60 wins, then was traded to the bobcats, where Paul silas wanted him to shoot more, Once again his numbers plummeted, and he almost dissapperead, after excepting a Buy out
he Goes to the spurs has a awsome year in the pass first system and was a major major factor in the championship.

Don't ever tell me a coach and a system isn't the reason players are succesful

I was a season ticket holder when diaw was drafted by Atlanta, his game was so raw, he played under stotts for a year and woodson for just one year.. he didn't play great under either coach as his game and body was still developing, he was a tall, lanky kid with not much confidence in his offense. not sure how you can put this on woodson..

under dantoni, his skill set was exposed and used properly, but diaw was also older, bigger, had some NBA years under his belt...

but I don't get your point.. MDA and the spurs system is completely different yet he thrived under both? remember diaw also had a problem with his weight and getting in shape, that has hurt him a bit in his career..

what is the point with shumpert? he played well under dantoni defensively actually, under woodson he seemed to regress... yet woodson was the defensive guru supposedly...

I think a huge problem with shumpert is shumpert and the fact that maybe he is just an OK player and not paul george 2.0

Diaw went from Stotts to Woodson to MDA in consecutive years. To suggest that something magically happened during the summer between Woodson and MDA is a bit misleading. Mostly likely it was the system.

Diaw practically says so himself

http://grantland.com/features/boris-diaw-tony-parker-san-antonio-spurs-nba-playoffs-2014/

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
dk7th
Posts: 30006
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6/18/2014  1:21 PM
tkf wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Better players for the vet min? Maybe slightly.
I'm looking at the total win shares (from basketball-reference.com) and adjusting them based on if the player's WS/48 was at the league average (.1)
So, Felton contributed 2.0 win shares and his WS/48 was .048. So if he had played the same minutes but at a level of average productivity, he would have had (.1/.048)*2.0 win shares, which equals 4.2. I then did the same for Bargnani.

MEH! All this shows me is that we had HORRID coaching and did not maximize the production of our players. Not to mention the injuries which didn't help. However, most of all this team really needed better decision making on who should be playing and how this team should be playing. An underperforming player like Felton should not be allowed to bring the whole team down.

We watched this team play some of the most PUTRID BB in the league given the talent on the roster. Guys were not used to the best of their abilities and would be bumping into each other, standing and watching, not executing properly and had no recognition of time and score. I mean it was a total disaster. Forget about JR being allowed to act like an ass. A huge let down in coaching and leadership.

There is much more that can be done with much of the same players. I like the potential of guys like Cole, Tyler, Shump, THJ and Murry as well. If you add a decent FA to that mix it's a good start. We could see a deal for Tyson made in order to get a pick. If Fish is smart he'll look to use Bargs more like a C which was surprisingly his best role last year. When Tyson went down Bargs did a very good job holding down the C spot. he's a very good man defender against C's and did show some improvement in help D. Bargs in the Triangle might really help his game as well. It's not all doom and gloom.

yea, I can't wait to see guys like tyler, cole , shump and THJ alongside a nice vet. I mean those guys have soooooooo much potential. I can see 52 wins.. i am pumped... add in a healthy BARGS and hell, who knows what the heck can happen..

ok, I tried it, enough of that.. I just can't do it.. can't put on the homer hat... just don't work.. LOL

so let me ask you this, what do you see in those guys that makes you believe they will give this franchise a good start? this is why I wanted to sign guys like DJ augustine last year, guys who are still somewhat young but have proven worth in a rotation in the league.. none of those guys so far have proven they are rotation worthy. Let me retract, other than THJ and he still a bit shakey defensively, I don't see a rotation player in that group... shumpert was one, but he has a lot to prove... critical year for him if you ask me..

Boris Diaw is the perfect example of how a player with his skill set can only be maximize in a certain systems. HE played like Crap under Mike Woodson, In fact during the Exit interviews in ATL, MIKe woodson told him he needs him to shoot more, he told mike woodson I don't want play for you and the system you run, he was thrown in as and extra in a trade with the suns for Joe Johnson.

Under MDA's pass first system in thrived playing all 5 positions and helping the team to 60 wins, then was traded to the bobcats, where Paul silas wanted him to shoot more, Once again his numbers plummeted, and he almost dissapperead, after excepting a Buy out
he Goes to the spurs has a awsome year in the pass first system and was a major major factor in the championship.

Don't ever tell me a coach and a system isn't the reason players are succesful

I was a season ticket holder when diaw was drafted by Atlanta, his game was so raw, he played under stotts for a year and woodson for just one year.. he didn't play great under either coach as his game and body was still developing, he was a tall, lanky kid with not much confidence in his offense. not sure how you can put this on woodson..

under dantoni, his skill set was exposed and used properly, but diaw was also older, bigger, had some NBA years under his belt...

but I don't get your point.. MDA and the spurs system is completely different yet he thrived under both? remember diaw also had a problem with his weight and getting in shape, that has hurt him a bit in his career..

what is the point with shumpert? he played well under dantoni defensively actually, under woodson he seemed to regress... yet woodson was the defensive guru supposedly...

I think a huge problem with shumpert is shumpert and the fact that maybe he is just an OK player and not paul george 2.0


regardless of what his ceiling is, has he had the opportunity and coaching to develop and expand his game? i agree his biggest problem may be himself but sometimes young guys will sulk in spite of themselves when stuck in a sh!tty situation like the one here in msg. also that knee injury was not nothing.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
6/18/2014  2:25 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/18/2014  2:30 PM
martin wrote:
tkf wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Better players for the vet min? Maybe slightly.
I'm looking at the total win shares (from basketball-reference.com) and adjusting them based on if the player's WS/48 was at the league average (.1)
So, Felton contributed 2.0 win shares and his WS/48 was .048. So if he had played the same minutes but at a level of average productivity, he would have had (.1/.048)*2.0 win shares, which equals 4.2. I then did the same for Bargnani.

MEH! All this shows me is that we had HORRID coaching and did not maximize the production of our players. Not to mention the injuries which didn't help. However, most of all this team really needed better decision making on who should be playing and how this team should be playing. An underperforming player like Felton should not be allowed to bring the whole team down.

We watched this team play some of the most PUTRID BB in the league given the talent on the roster. Guys were not used to the best of their abilities and would be bumping into each other, standing and watching, not executing properly and had no recognition of time and score. I mean it was a total disaster. Forget about JR being allowed to act like an ass. A huge let down in coaching and leadership.

There is much more that can be done with much of the same players. I like the potential of guys like Cole, Tyler, Shump, THJ and Murry as well. If you add a decent FA to that mix it's a good start. We could see a deal for Tyson made in order to get a pick. If Fish is smart he'll look to use Bargs more like a C which was surprisingly his best role last year. When Tyson went down Bargs did a very good job holding down the C spot. he's a very good man defender against C's and did show some improvement in help D. Bargs in the Triangle might really help his game as well. It's not all doom and gloom.

yea, I can't wait to see guys like tyler, cole , shump and THJ alongside a nice vet. I mean those guys have soooooooo much potential. I can see 52 wins.. i am pumped... add in a healthy BARGS and hell, who knows what the heck can happen..

ok, I tried it, enough of that.. I just can't do it.. can't put on the homer hat... just don't work.. LOL

so let me ask you this, what do you see in those guys that makes you believe they will give this franchise a good start? this is why I wanted to sign guys like DJ augustine last year, guys who are still somewhat young but have proven worth in a rotation in the league.. none of those guys so far have proven they are rotation worthy. Let me retract, other than THJ and he still a bit shakey defensively, I don't see a rotation player in that group... shumpert was one, but he has a lot to prove... critical year for him if you ask me..

Boris Diaw is the perfect example of how a player with his skill set can only be maximize in a certain systems. HE played like Crap under Mike Woodson, In fact during the Exit interviews in ATL, MIKe woodson told him he needs him to shoot more, he told mike woodson I don't want play for you and the system you run, he was thrown in as and extra in a trade with the suns for Joe Johnson.

Under MDA's pass first system in thrived playing all 5 positions and helping the team to 60 wins, then was traded to the bobcats, where Paul silas wanted him to shoot more, Once again his numbers plummeted, and he almost dissapperead, after excepting a Buy out
he Goes to the spurs has a awsome year in the pass first system and was a major major factor in the championship.

Don't ever tell me a coach and a system isn't the reason players are succesful

I was a season ticket holder when diaw was drafted by Atlanta, his game was so raw, he played under stotts for a year and woodson for just one year.. he didn't play great under either coach as his game and body was still developing, he was a tall, lanky kid with not much confidence in his offense. not sure how you can put this on woodson..

under dantoni, his skill set was exposed and used properly, but diaw was also older, bigger, had some NBA years under his belt...

but I don't get your point.. MDA and the spurs system is completely different yet he thrived under both? remember diaw also had a problem with his weight and getting in shape, that has hurt him a bit in his career..

what is the point with shumpert? he played well under dantoni defensively actually, under woodson he seemed to regress... yet woodson was the defensive guru supposedly...

I think a huge problem with shumpert is shumpert and the fact that maybe he is just an OK player and not paul george 2.0

Diaw went from Stotts to Woodson to MDA in consecutive years. To suggest that something magically happened during the summer between Woodson and MDA is a bit misleading. Mostly likely it was the system.

Diaw practically says so himself

http://grantland.com/features/boris-diaw-tony-parker-san-antonio-spurs-nba-playoffs-2014/

no what I am saying is that there are other factors, like diaw being in his third year. .are you telling me there was a problem with terry stotts system? if so what was his system then martin? what is more misleading is trying to just paint diaw as a system guy to help exonerate the lack of success that shumpert has had so far... there is no denying that MDA helped diaw grow offensively, but I will not say that had MDA had diaw in year one, we would have seen a drastically different player than we saw under stotts and woodson. remember MDA really doesn't like to play rookies.. diaw was very, very raw.. did you even watch him play his rookie year?

I will admit atlanta may have been sort of a mess, but I think it was a combination of both that and diaw just being young, raw, and just not ready....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Wojo: Sources: Carmelo leaning towards leaving the Knicks

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