tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:By the way...I'll take 29 pts 8 Rebs on 43% shooting From Melo any day of the week as he did in the Series...

so would you take his 27/11/ and only one assist on 35% shooting in game 1 which we lost.. 28 shots ? wow

how about his 21/5/ and yet again ONE assist stinker shooting 37% in another loss.. game 3.. knicks scored 71 points.. I thought having a superstar and scoring champion was supposed to avoid the knicks from having games like this?

or how about the pivotal game 4. knicks in danger falling down 3-1.. carmelo shows up with 24/9/ and yes, yet again ONE assist.. rofl... and oh. he shot 39%

so you can post that 43% because he had one or two games that help bring that horrible average up, but in the games his team needed him to be a star.. he wasn't.. he isn't.. plain and simple..

so I ask you.. is this what you really want?

Tell the whole story why don't u:

Game 2: 32pts 9reb 3 ast on 50% shooting
Game 5: 28pts 6 reb 0 asst on 43% shooting
Game 6: 39 pts 7 reb 2 asst on 53% shooting...

Anyone can post the worst games of any player from any series..By the way, that's how averages work..U add all the numbers, just not the bad...

Don't you get it? Only melo's bad games count- you have to ignore/ refuse to acknowledge any good games or achievements.

if they counted for double you would be onto to something. Why are the homers in total denial? Holfresh mentioned KG, a notorious one and done playoff guy. Compare his stats vs playoffs. He's just as good. Now compare Melo's. Melo goes from a reasonable 45% shooting (for a volume scorer) to Jamal Crawford in the playoffs. Does he suck? No. Does he choke? No. Does he get exposed? Every year.

Playing the Knicks:
Pack the middle and bottle up the middle. Commit your bigs to protecting the basket, especially when Melo has the ball and you will win EVERY playoff series against the Knicks. Why? Because if you take away the paint from Melo he will take his shots elsewhere. And yes.. there will be games he lights it up because he's damn good. And those will be followed by games he shoot 10-30. 10 years of evidence and the excuses continue.

Its laughable.

I dont even hate the guy. He's a great player. I 100% agree with ESPN. Top 15 for sure, and probably top 10, but the holes in his game ad his refusal to change his approach will ensure the same thing happens every year.

So please... MElo apologists, holfresh, etc.. please tell me which parts Im wrong about

And I'm fine with criticism of him- I prefer defensive players! It's just when people refuse to acknowledge ANY positives about him and make out he's one of, if not THE worst players in the league. That's just daft.

Nah, no one is saying that.. the problem with you melo defenders is that he is either a superstar, top 5 or he's hated on..

can you just accept that he is a decent all around player, good streak, volume shooter/ scorer, and most likely nothing more than that? does that make him bad.. NO. there is a place for guys like him in the Nba, but it doesn't make him great, doesn't make him a star and doesn't make him worthy to hand the keys to the franchise over to....

that is where I stand..

Even people that dislike him consider him better than decent and better than just a streaky scorer. He scores 25 plus every game and every season. I have never seen just a streaky scorer that can do that. He is a GREAT scorer, one of the best in the league who lacks in other departments. Whether the great aspects far override the weak areas are up to interpretation and if he is an nba star.

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:By the way...I'll take 29 pts 8 Rebs on 43% shooting From Melo any day of the week as he did in the Series...

so would you take his 27/11/ and only one assist on 35% shooting in game 1 which we lost.. 28 shots ? wow

how about his 21/5/ and yet again ONE assist stinker shooting 37% in another loss.. game 3.. knicks scored 71 points.. I thought having a superstar and scoring champion was supposed to avoid the knicks from having games like this?

or how about the pivotal game 4. knicks in danger falling down 3-1.. carmelo shows up with 24/9/ and yes, yet again ONE assist.. rofl... and oh. he shot 39%

so you can post that 43% because he had one or two games that help bring that horrible average up, but in the games his team needed him to be a star.. he wasn't.. he isn't.. plain and simple..

so I ask you.. is this what you really want?

Tell the whole story why don't u:

Game 2: 32pts 9reb 3 ast on 50% shooting
Game 5: 28pts 6 reb 0 asst on 43% shooting
Game 6: 39 pts 7 reb 2 asst on 53% shooting...

Anyone can post the worst games of any player from any series..By the way, that's how averages work..U add all the numbers, just not the bad...

Don't you get it? Only melo's bad games count- you have to ignore/ refuse to acknowledge any good games or achievements.

if they counted for double you would be onto to something. Why are the homers in total denial? Holfresh mentioned KG, a notorious one and done playoff guy. Compare his stats vs playoffs. He's just as good. Now compare Melo's. Melo goes from a reasonable 45% shooting (for a volume scorer) to Jamal Crawford in the playoffs. Does he suck? No. Does he choke? No. Does he get exposed? Every year.

Playing the Knicks:
Pack the middle and bottle up the middle. Commit your bigs to protecting the basket, especially when Melo has the ball and you will win EVERY playoff series against the Knicks. Why? Because if you take away the paint from Melo he will take his shots elsewhere. And yes.. there will be games he lights it up because he's damn good. And those will be followed by games he shoot 10-30. 10 years of evidence and the excuses continue.

Its laughable.

I dont even hate the guy. He's a great player. I 100% agree with ESPN. Top 15 for sure, and probably top 10, but the holes in his game ad his refusal to change his approach will ensure the same thing happens every year.

So please... MElo apologists, holfresh, etc.. please tell me which parts Im wrong about

And I'm fine with criticism of him- I prefer defensive players! It's just when people refuse to acknowledge ANY positives about him and make out he's one of, if not THE worst players in the league. That's just daft.

Nah, no one is saying that.. the problem with you melo defenders is that he is either a superstar, top 5 or he's hated on..

can you just accept that he is a decent all around player, good streak, volume shooter/ scorer, and most likely nothing more than that? does that make him bad.. NO. there is a place for guys like him in the Nba, but it doesn't make him great, doesn't make him a star and doesn't make him worthy to hand the keys to the franchise over to....

that is where I stand..

Even people that dislike him consider him better than decent and better than just a streaky scorer. He scores 25 plus every game and every season. I have never seen just a streaky scorer that can do that. He is a GREAT scorer, one of the best in the league who lacks in other departments. Whether the great aspects far override the weak areas are up to interpretation and if he is an nba star.

his scoring is inefficient. inefficient volume scorers undermine winning and also exhaust teammates. if he were a great scorer he would be doing so at a better than 58%TS clip. he has never done that and is sub-par in all other aspects of the game, which make his scoring empty calories. if you take more than 18 shots a game there is something wrong, unless you are doing other things to earn the right to do so.

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:By the way...I'll take 29 pts 8 Rebs on 43% shooting From Melo any day of the week as he did in the Series...

so would you take his 27/11/ and only one assist on 35% shooting in game 1 which we lost.. 28 shots ? wow

how about his 21/5/ and yet again ONE assist stinker shooting 37% in another loss.. game 3.. knicks scored 71 points.. I thought having a superstar and scoring champion was supposed to avoid the knicks from having games like this?

or how about the pivotal game 4. knicks in danger falling down 3-1.. carmelo shows up with 24/9/ and yes, yet again ONE assist.. rofl... and oh. he shot 39%

so you can post that 43% because he had one or two games that help bring that horrible average up, but in the games his team needed him to be a star.. he wasn't.. he isn't.. plain and simple..

so I ask you.. is this what you really want?

Tell the whole story why don't u:

Game 2: 32pts 9reb 3 ast on 50% shooting
Game 5: 28pts 6 reb 0 asst on 43% shooting
Game 6: 39 pts 7 reb 2 asst on 53% shooting...

Anyone can post the worst games of any player from any series..By the way, that's how averages work..U add all the numbers, just not the bad...

Don't you get it? Only melo's bad games count- you have to ignore/ refuse to acknowledge any good games or achievements.

if they counted for double you would be onto to something. Why are the homers in total denial? Holfresh mentioned KG, a notorious one and done playoff guy. Compare his stats vs playoffs. He's just as good. Now compare Melo's. Melo goes from a reasonable 45% shooting (for a volume scorer) to Jamal Crawford in the playoffs. Does he suck? No. Does he choke? No. Does he get exposed? Every year.

Playing the Knicks:
Pack the middle and bottle up the middle. Commit your bigs to protecting the basket, especially when Melo has the ball and you will win EVERY playoff series against the Knicks. Why? Because if you take away the paint from Melo he will take his shots elsewhere. And yes.. there will be games he lights it up because he's damn good. And those will be followed by games he shoot 10-30. 10 years of evidence and the excuses continue.

Its laughable.

I dont even hate the guy. He's a great player. I 100% agree with ESPN. Top 15 for sure, and probably top 10, but the holes in his game ad his refusal to change his approach will ensure the same thing happens every year.

So please... MElo apologists, holfresh, etc.. please tell me which parts Im wrong about

And I'm fine with criticism of him- I prefer defensive players! It's just when people refuse to acknowledge ANY positives about him and make out he's one of, if not THE worst players in the league. That's just daft.

Nah, no one is saying that.. the problem with you melo defenders is that he is either a superstar, top 5 or he's hated on..

can you just accept that he is a decent all around player, good streak, volume shooter/ scorer, and most likely nothing more than that? does that make him bad.. NO. there is a place for guys like him in the Nba, but it doesn't make him great, doesn't make him a star and doesn't make him worthy to hand the keys to the franchise over to....

that is where I stand..

Even people that dislike him consider him better than decent and better than just a streaky scorer. He scores 25 plus every game and every season. I have never seen just a streaky scorer that can do that. He is a GREAT scorer, one of the best in the league who lacks in other departments. Whether the great aspects far override the weak areas are up to interpretation and if he is an nba star.

his scoring is inefficient. inefficient volume scorers undermine winning and also exhaust teammates. if he were a great scorer he would be doing so at a better than 58%TS clip. he has never done that and is sub-par in all other aspects of the game, which make his scoring empty calories. if you take more than 18 shots a game there is something wrong, unless you are doing other things to earn the right to do so.

and yet despite all this and the fact that hes been on good teams but never great teams he leads his team to 50ish wins every year. Somewhere your theory has holes in it. David Lee was a TS% freak. So why didnt Lee lead us to more than 30 wins?

He's enough of a star to build a 50ish win playoff team around every year, but the holes in his game will always keep him from being able to grind out playoff wins. He needs a #1 if we want to compete for a title. Thats where I stand

is the level of opponent higher in the playoffs-- especially beyond the <meh> first round, or the same as the regular season? of course the question is rhetorical... and i am not directing the query to you alone. so far as lee is concerned, can we agree that the knick teams he played for were just a notch or two lower in terms of talent? and i recall his last two years here were pure, unadulterated roster flush.

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:By the way...I'll take 29 pts 8 Rebs on 43% shooting From Melo any day of the week as he did in the Series...

so would you take his 27/11/ and only one assist on 35% shooting in game 1 which we lost.. 28 shots ? wow

how about his 21/5/ and yet again ONE assist stinker shooting 37% in another loss.. game 3.. knicks scored 71 points.. I thought having a superstar and scoring champion was supposed to avoid the knicks from having games like this?

or how about the pivotal game 4. knicks in danger falling down 3-1.. carmelo shows up with 24/9/ and yes, yet again ONE assist.. rofl... and oh. he shot 39%

so you can post that 43% because he had one or two games that help bring that horrible average up, but in the games his team needed him to be a star.. he wasn't.. he isn't.. plain and simple..

so I ask you.. is this what you really want?

Tell the whole story why don't u:

Game 2: 32pts 9reb 3 ast on 50% shooting
Game 5: 28pts 6 reb 0 asst on 43% shooting
Game 6: 39 pts 7 reb 2 asst on 53% shooting...

Anyone can post the worst games of any player from any series..By the way, that's how averages work..U add all the numbers, just not the bad...

Don't you get it? Only melo's bad games count- you have to ignore/ refuse to acknowledge any good games or achievements.

if they counted for double you would be onto to something. Why are the homers in total denial? Holfresh mentioned KG, a notorious one and done playoff guy. Compare his stats vs playoffs. He's just as good. Now compare Melo's. Melo goes from a reasonable 45% shooting (for a volume scorer) to Jamal Crawford in the playoffs. Does he suck? No. Does he choke? No. Does he get exposed? Every year.

Playing the Knicks:
Pack the middle and bottle up the middle. Commit your bigs to protecting the basket, especially when Melo has the ball and you will win EVERY playoff series against the Knicks. Why? Because if you take away the paint from Melo he will take his shots elsewhere. And yes.. there will be games he lights it up because he's damn good. And those will be followed by games he shoot 10-30. 10 years of evidence and the excuses continue.

Its laughable.

I dont even hate the guy. He's a great player. I 100% agree with ESPN. Top 15 for sure, and probably top 10, but the holes in his game ad his refusal to change his approach will ensure the same thing happens every year.

So please... MElo apologists, holfresh, etc.. please tell me which parts Im wrong about

And I'm fine with criticism of him- I prefer defensive players! It's just when people refuse to acknowledge ANY positives about him and make out he's one of, if not THE worst players in the league. That's just daft.

Nah, no one is saying that.. the problem with you melo defenders is that he is either a superstar, top 5 or he's hated on..

can you just accept that he is a decent all around player, good streak, volume shooter/ scorer, and most likely nothing more than that? does that make him bad.. NO. there is a place for guys like him in the Nba, but it doesn't make him great, doesn't make him a star and doesn't make him worthy to hand the keys to the franchise over to....

that is where I stand..

Even people that dislike him consider him better than decent and better than just a streaky scorer. He scores 25 plus every game and every season. I have never seen just a streaky scorer that can do that. He is a GREAT scorer, one of the best in the league who lacks in other departments. Whether the great aspects far override the weak areas are up to interpretation and if he is an nba star.

his scoring is inefficient. inefficient volume scorers undermine winning and also exhaust teammates. if he were a great scorer he would be doing so at a better than 58%TS clip. he has never done that and is sub-par in all other aspects of the game, which make his scoring empty calories. if you take more than 18 shots a game there is something wrong, unless you are doing other things to earn the right to do so.

and yet despite all this and the fact that hes been on good teams but never great teams he leads his team to 50ish wins every year. Somewhere your theory has holes in it. David Lee was a TS% freak. So why didnt Lee lead us to more than 30 wins?

He's enough of a star to build a 50ish win playoff team around every year, but the holes in his game will always keep him from being able to grind out playoff wins. He needs a #1 if we want to compete for a title. Thats where I stand

is the level of opponent higher in the playoffs-- especially beyond the <meh> first round, or the same as the regular season? of course the question is rhetorical... and i am not directing the query to you alone. so far as lee is concerned, can we agree that the knick teams he played for were just a notch or two lower in terms of talent? and i recall his last two years here were pure, unadulterated roster flush.

it is indeed.. and Melo has shown his talent is high enough to get a team to the playoffs every year. Has Melo ever missed the playoffs since joining the NBA? Yet all his teams have also undergone many many roster flushes of their own, yet one thing remains... Melo's team win about 50 games regardless of whos on the roster, and that alone is a very clear indication of his talent and skills and how they directly translate into NBA wins. You would have us believe Melo is Al Harrington who just takes more shots, and that is just as disingenuous as the 'homers' who think Melo's a superstar and his playoff failures have nothing to do with his poor play in the post season.

as i said, the first round is <meh> so his having gotten to the first round is also <meh>. had he been able to get to the second round regularly, that would actually mean something. i know... my detractors feel i have been moving the goalposts... but i have maintained this standard all along. the playoffs reward mediocrity, which is what happens when half the league gets in. a bloated league with too many teams and a diluted talent pool. the smart players will try to get better... melo hasn't. the snart players will try to find situations that will best suit that players actual sense of his value to a team... melo hasn't.

I agree... Melo isnt the smartest. His approach works in the regular season and doest stand up against the NBA's elite teams. Doesnt take away from the fact that the guy is talented to get a team thats otherwise pretty average there year after year, and that IS a noteworthy achievement and a fair measure of one's impact on his team. Melo is a high impact player. Pretend he's not and your credibility ends there.

He needs another stud to compete for a title and take the next step. Can and will MSG find that guy? That being said 3 years later Will Chandler, Gallo, Mos, etc etc dont sniff the impact that Melo has on a game. Plain and simple.

Yes, defend DLee with roster churn, who's game is a stat padding, meaningless exercise in double doubles. He just runs away from the paint on D.
But Melo is "empty calories". Please, tell me how DLee makes All-Star teams.

Melo being compared to DLee. It's come to this.

gunsnewing wrote:That's why I've always been in favor of drafting and developing our own players and not overpaying for castoffs. But the Knicks organization is inept

Even going down the drafting road is very risky and likely to fail.

Vmart wrote:If Melo shoots 50% he will be top three.

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:By the way...I'll take 29 pts 8 Rebs on 43% shooting From Melo any day of the week as he did in the Series...

so would you take his 27/11/ and only one assist on 35% shooting in game 1 which we lost.. 28 shots ? wow

how about his 21/5/ and yet again ONE assist stinker shooting 37% in another loss.. game 3.. knicks scored 71 points.. I thought having a superstar and scoring champion was supposed to avoid the knicks from having games like this?

or how about the pivotal game 4. knicks in danger falling down 3-1.. carmelo shows up with 24/9/ and yes, yet again ONE assist.. rofl... and oh. he shot 39%

so you can post that 43% because he had one or two games that help bring that horrible average up, but in the games his team needed him to be a star.. he wasn't.. he isn't.. plain and simple..

so I ask you.. is this what you really want?

Tell the whole story why don't u:

Game 2: 32pts 9reb 3 ast on 50% shooting
Game 5: 28pts 6 reb 0 asst on 43% shooting
Game 6: 39 pts 7 reb 2 asst on 53% shooting...

Anyone can post the worst games of any player from any series..By the way, that's how averages work..U add all the numbers, just not the bad...

Don't you get it? Only melo's bad games count- you have to ignore/ refuse to acknowledge any good games or achievements.

if they counted for double you would be onto to something. Why are the homers in total denial? Holfresh mentioned KG, a notorious one and done playoff guy. Compare his stats vs playoffs. He's just as good. Now compare Melo's. Melo goes from a reasonable 45% shooting (for a volume scorer) to Jamal Crawford in the playoffs. Does he suck? No. Does he choke? No. Does he get exposed? Every year.

Playing the Knicks:
Pack the middle and bottle up the middle. Commit your bigs to protecting the basket, especially when Melo has the ball and you will win EVERY playoff series against the Knicks. Why? Because if you take away the paint from Melo he will take his shots elsewhere. And yes.. there will be games he lights it up because he's damn good. And those will be followed by games he shoot 10-30. 10 years of evidence and the excuses continue.

Its laughable.

I dont even hate the guy. He's a great player. I 100% agree with ESPN. Top 15 for sure, and probably top 10, but the holes in his game ad his refusal to change his approach will ensure the same thing happens every year.

So please... MElo apologists, holfresh, etc.. please tell me which parts Im wrong about

And I'm fine with criticism of him- I prefer defensive players! It's just when people refuse to acknowledge ANY positives about him and make out he's one of, if not THE worst players in the league. That's just daft.

Nah, no one is saying that.. the problem with you melo defenders is that he is either a superstar, top 5 or he's hated on..

can you just accept that he is a decent all around player, good streak, volume shooter/ scorer, and most likely nothing more than that? does that make him bad.. NO. there is a place for guys like him in the Nba, but it doesn't make him great, doesn't make him a star and doesn't make him worthy to hand the keys to the franchise over to....

that is where I stand..

Even people that dislike him consider him better than decent and better than just a streaky scorer. He scores 25 plus every game and every season. I have never seen just a streaky scorer that can do that. He is a GREAT scorer, one of the best in the league who lacks in other departments. Whether the great aspects far override the weak areas are up to interpretation and if he is an nba star.

his scoring is inefficient. inefficient volume scorers undermine winning and also exhaust teammates. if he were a great scorer he would be doing so at a better than 58%TS clip. he has never done that and is sub-par in all other aspects of the game, which make his scoring empty calories. if you take more than 18 shots a game there is something wrong, unless you are doing other things to earn the right to do so.

and yet despite all this and the fact that hes been on good teams but never great teams he leads his team to 50ish wins every year. Somewhere your theory has holes in it. David Lee was a TS% freak. So why didnt Lee lead us to more than 30 wins?

He's enough of a star to build a 50ish win playoff team around every year, but the holes in his game will always keep him from being able to grind out playoff wins. He needs a #1 if we want to compete for a title. Thats where I stand

is the level of opponent higher in the playoffs-- especially beyond the <meh> first round, or the same as the regular season? of course the question is rhetorical... and i am not directing the query to you alone. so far as lee is concerned, can we agree that the knick teams he played for were just a notch or two lower in terms of talent? and i recall his last two years here were pure, unadulterated roster flush.

it is indeed.. and Melo has shown his talent is high enough to get a team to the playoffs every year. Has Melo ever missed the playoffs since joining the NBA? Yet all his teams have also undergone many many roster flushes of their own, yet one thing remains... Melo's team win about 50 games regardless of whos on the roster, and that alone is a very clear indication of his talent and skills and how they directly translate into NBA wins. You would have us believe Melo is Al Harrington who just takes more shots, and that is just as disingenuous as the 'homers' who think Melo's a superstar and his playoff failures have nothing to do with his poor play in the post season.

fish, I think a while ago someone pointed out the success of the nuggets just didn't coincide with carmelo, but with the arrival of Karl as well.. think about this.. I keep hearing "he leads his teams to 50 wins".. nah lets be clear, he has been on good teams.... Denver won 57 games last year.. more than at any time carmelo has been with that franchise... it was a franchise record. No one is saying he is bad, but this " he leads his team to 50 wins" just isn't accurate, the nuggets have had talent.. and not missing the playoffs may have a lot to do with Karl just as much..

just think, that nuggets team last year, had injuries to chandler, gallo, lawson, and yet they put together 57 wins.. that says a lot about the coaching.. denver has not missed a beat since carmelo has been gone..