holfresh wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

holfresh wrote:The outrage over Grunwald's ouster is a little curious to me...Grunwald did an OK job, not necessary a great job...Dolan has every right to be a little unsure about Grunwald especially going into 2014/15 season..Novak's contract was a head scratcher..4 years close to 4 mil per, really???...3 years to JKidd and Camby??...KMart should have been here long ahead of Kurt Thomas, a no brainer...I mean come on guys...JR did us a solid by taking 2 mil last year...Without JR last year, it would have been a far different season...I'm not endorsing what Dolan did, but let's not make Grunwald out to be Jerry West...

I'll agree Grunwald didn't do a great job, mostly because he didn't have the flexibility to do anything truly substantial. Novak and Camby were gambles that didn't pan out, but were more or less rectified in the Bargnani trade. Kurt was part of the Raymond Felton trade, and Kmart was a signing late in the season when no one else had decided to offer him a contract, not seeing the connection. Basically, as I believe martin stated...he didn't **** up. Small, solid moves in addition to the pre-established foundation, got us to where we're at. Tyson, even though I have my doubts going forward with him, was a strong move. Enough to at least put my confidence in the man going forward, which is more than we've had in the past decade.

I wouldn't cast the Tyson move as a strong one given that it may have cost us a run at CP3(tho a long shot)...Forgot Kurt was part of the Felton trade but we could have cut Kurt and brought in KMart at the min a lot earlier...KMart was out there a long time..We got lucky getting him...Not screwing up is not a reason to go forward...He may have your confidence but having Dolan's confidence is a tad more important...Who knows what was actually going on behind the scenes at MSG and who was making the calls on signings and trades...SAS said the H20 is the guy doing most if not all the leg(phone calls) work...Grunwald hasn't really wowed me with anything he has done...He was OK..I won't waste time crying about this...

I list Tyson only because it is really the one significant move Grunwald was able to make. Given that the team was still considered a joke defensively at that point, to come out and create the capspace to sign the DPOY is worthy of credit. Unfortunately the sudden change in philosophy came right after Walsh decided to bring Billups back for that final year (exactly why you should give a GM the entirety of an offseason to move the team in the direction of his or her choosing).

I thought KMart looked good in LA and absolutely should have had a contract to start the season, but he obviously gave teams a reason to pause. I don't know if it was because he was demanding too much or what, but Grunwald is the guy that finally got the deal done. Tough to complain when 30 out of 30 teams agree.

I hadn't heard anything about Houston's role, but I really hope that's accurate. The last lines are fair, but you have to understand fan concern over dumping a guy who at least proved adequate in a position the franchise has been abysmal at for a decade plus. I'll give Mills the benefit of the doubt (as I always do with this franchise...and as has certainly bitten me in the ass before). Fortunately for any doubts I may have, I don't see the roster shifting too much over the next two seasons.

I think we are going to disagree on a few things here..Tyson should not have won DPOY that year...Bron led an insane defensive display in Miami on his way to a first Championship after losing to Dallas in the Finals...Serge Ibaka was another guy having a great defensive year ahead of Tyson...DYOP is a curious award, I really don't know how it's voted on...Last year's winner, Marc Gasol, isn't even the best defender on his team...Donnie demanded total autonomous control of the Knicks after Dolan went after Melo..Left up to Donnie, MDA would still be here..Another argument for another day...But Tyson did make us better defensively, it's unfortunate that he doesn't bring it every game, he takes nights off...

My bet is Mills is here to be a front guy/media guy/finance guy helping H20 step into the role over the next year...Chris Copeland's comments on move was interesting...He said that Grunwald was a "nice guy" and he hate to see that happen to him..He also said that this is great for H20 and he is one of the great basketball minds he has met...He thinks H20 will do a great job...Grunwald's small dealings with Novak and Kidd gave me pause...I'm not sure how he handles a big deal like Melo or the next big free agent...Maybe thats Dolan's concern, who knows...

Tyson was worthy.

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:How do you explain being listed by name?

You talking to me?

Papabear wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Markji wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Markji wrote:

Papabear wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:If Isola's piece is true and Dolan didn't think we improved enough over the summer, what the heck did he want Grunnie to do. We had a late 1st rounder, no second round pick, no cap space, one tiny MMLE, no ability to sign and trade, and every extra dollar of salary we aquirred would lead to a massive tax bill. Guess Dolan was the moron who demanded we try and get Monta Ellis.

dolan isnt a rational person, he wont think like that, what he will do is get pissed that the Nets are getting a ton of praise while the Knicks are being dismissed.

thats enough for Dolan to react.

isn't dolan the same fellow who brokered a trade for carmelo anthony, gutting the team of valuable assets, and hamstringing the team financially for the ensuing campaigns? and now we hear that melo is agitating for change or he walks? let's tally up the collateral damage:

fields
gallinari
chandler
mozgov
stat
walsh
d'antoni
lin
grunwald

on tap is shumpert.

Damage caused by who? Dolan (I hope you're not talking about Melo)? A lot of those things you either can't blame on them or actually turned out well for us.

dolan is always the source of the bad, ultimately. but you can't say with a straight face, given http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1789193-knicks-front-office-shakeup-grunwald-out-mills-in-and-melo-in-the-middle#comments that melo is merely an innocent victim here, having no ability to catalyze anything.

or can you? in my opinion dolan and melo are made for each other, they enable each others considerable weaknesses. where they are destruction cannot be far off.

have you ever heard of "malignant narcissism" or "malignant narcissists?" 'cause that is what has been going down here. a classic case in fact, plain as day.

marbury same
thomas same
mills likely the same

Look, I'm not denying that Melo has some influence within the organization. Probably every franchise player does. However, I dont believe he orchestrated firing Grunwald in this situation. This was Dolan getting his buddy back into MSG. Nothing to do with Melo, in my opinion.

Papabear Says

You ever wonder why some of these guys are still Knicks fans?? They hate the management they hate the star players or even the team. So why are they here. Every thing that's wrong with this team is Melo's fault. It's sick. And they repeat the same damn thing over and over again. Dolan owns this team whether we like it or not. It ain't changing. So its best for them to move to another team that they like and is willing to root for and that is any team who ain't the Knicks.

You're hardly the most positive poster here. I find it puzzling that you think you've figured out the cut-off beyond which criticism indicates that you're not a real fan.

Papabear Says

At least I'm a Knicks Fan! And I go to games and enjoy MSG. What about you?? I'm positive about the Knicks. Here is my problem, some of you have nothing but anger and hate and its all Melo's fault. Hey Bonn Bonn its Dolan's money it's Dolan's cash. Bonn Bonn I repeat it's Dolan's and you are just a half tail negative poster with the twin brothers who are about nothing but doom and gloom. Maybe when you hit the big lottery you might have enough to buy a little piece of the Knicks Franchise which is the richest in the NBA. So no one cares about you and the twins doom and gloom. As for me I'm going to at least 10 Knicks games this season and guess what?? I'm gonna have a great time.

PapaBear, I agree with you on being positive about the Knicks. I always am at this point....at the beginning of the season. Why not be positive. Enjoy life. Enjoy last season's 54 wins and this upcoming season.

I hate Dolan's firing of Grunwald. I liked Grunwald. I like Melo. I 1/2 dislike Dolan; the half that meddles in the running of the team with his super, napoleanic ego. But I do like the fact that he is not cheap and spends large amounts of money, to at least try, to make the Knicks winners. He may not make the wisest moves, but he does open up the wallet.

If winning the Championship is the only thing that would make a fan happy, then only 3.33% of the NBA fans will ever be happy in any season. But, like PapaBear, I too enjoy the Knicks, especially when they win 54 games. We have a good team. Enjoy it.

There's a big difference between winning one playoff series a decade and winning a championship every year. You can be upset with the former without demanding the latter.

I agree with that. Being upset is OK. Bitching about it is OK. But then at some point, one has to move on. I'm putting my attention on the team. And praying that Dolan doesn't force any more crazy moves.

OK, fair enough. I thought you were going down the "I'm better than you" papabear route.

Papabear Says

Bonn Bonn you're liar I never said that I was better than you. I'm just not going to take the doom and gloom route. I'm going to enjoy my Knicks this season. You have a negative view on the Knicks and that is fine with me. I just want to have fun and enjoy the game. I want to enjoy Melo and the rest of the team. When Melo came here It gave us hope or should I say it gave me hope. I just won't let you and the twins rain on my parade all season with the negativity you guys will be posting all season about the Knicks. You do your thing and I will do mine.

Well you say you have a problem with other posters. That makes it clear you see something wrong or problematic with them. Unless you have an equally big problem with yourself, clearly you are saying you are better.

JamesKPolk wrote:Bonn, notice how the great Papatroll only replies to you and ignores my post? He can't handle the truth.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Markji wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Markji wrote:

Papabear wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:If Isola's piece is true and Dolan didn't think we improved enough over the summer, what the heck did he want Grunnie to do. We had a late 1st rounder, no second round pick, no cap space, one tiny MMLE, no ability to sign and trade, and every extra dollar of salary we aquirred would lead to a massive tax bill. Guess Dolan was the moron who demanded we try and get Monta Ellis.

dolan isnt a rational person, he wont think like that, what he will do is get pissed that the Nets are getting a ton of praise while the Knicks are being dismissed.

thats enough for Dolan to react.

isn't dolan the same fellow who brokered a trade for carmelo anthony, gutting the team of valuable assets, and hamstringing the team financially for the ensuing campaigns? and now we hear that melo is agitating for change or he walks? let's tally up the collateral damage:

fields
gallinari
chandler
mozgov
stat
walsh
d'antoni
lin
grunwald

on tap is shumpert.

Damage caused by who? Dolan (I hope you're not talking about Melo)? A lot of those things you either can't blame on them or actually turned out well for us.

dolan is always the source of the bad, ultimately. but you can't say with a straight face, given http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1789193-knicks-front-office-shakeup-grunwald-out-mills-in-and-melo-in-the-middle#comments that melo is merely an innocent victim here, having no ability to catalyze anything.

or can you? in my opinion dolan and melo are made for each other, they enable each others considerable weaknesses. where they are destruction cannot be far off.

have you ever heard of "malignant narcissism" or "malignant narcissists?" 'cause that is what has been going down here. a classic case in fact, plain as day.

marbury same
thomas same
mills likely the same

Look, I'm not denying that Melo has some influence within the organization. Probably every franchise player does. However, I dont believe he orchestrated firing Grunwald in this situation. This was Dolan getting his buddy back into MSG. Nothing to do with Melo, in my opinion.

Papabear Says

You ever wonder why some of these guys are still Knicks fans?? They hate the management they hate the star players or even the team. So why are they here. Every thing that's wrong with this team is Melo's fault. It's sick. And they repeat the same damn thing over and over again. Dolan owns this team whether we like it or not. It ain't changing. So its best for them to move to another team that they like and is willing to root for and that is any team who ain't the Knicks.

You're hardly the most positive poster here. I find it puzzling that you think you've figured out the cut-off beyond which criticism indicates that you're not a real fan.

Papabear Says

At least I'm a Knicks Fan! And I go to games and enjoy MSG. What about you?? I'm positive about the Knicks. Here is my problem, some of you have nothing but anger and hate and its all Melo's fault. Hey Bonn Bonn its Dolan's money it's Dolan's cash. Bonn Bonn I repeat it's Dolan's and you are just a half tail negative poster with the twin brothers who are about nothing but doom and gloom. Maybe when you hit the big lottery you might have enough to buy a little piece of the Knicks Franchise which is the richest in the NBA. So no one cares about you and the twins doom and gloom. As for me I'm going to at least 10 Knicks games this season and guess what?? I'm gonna have a great time.

PapaBear, I agree with you on being positive about the Knicks. I always am at this point....at the beginning of the season. Why not be positive. Enjoy life. Enjoy last season's 54 wins and this upcoming season.

I hate Dolan's firing of Grunwald. I liked Grunwald. I like Melo. I 1/2 dislike Dolan; the half that meddles in the running of the team with his super, napoleanic ego. But I do like the fact that he is not cheap and spends large amounts of money, to at least try, to make the Knicks winners. He may not make the wisest moves, but he does open up the wallet.

If winning the Championship is the only thing that would make a fan happy, then only 3.33% of the NBA fans will ever be happy in any season. But, like PapaBear, I too enjoy the Knicks, especially when they win 54 games. We have a good team. Enjoy it.

There's a big difference between winning one playoff series a decade and winning a championship every year. You can be upset with the former without demanding the latter.

I agree with that. Being upset is OK. Bitching about it is OK. But then at some point, one has to move on. I'm putting my attention on the team. And praying that Dolan doesn't force any more crazy moves.

OK, fair enough. I thought you were going down the "I'm better than you" papabear route.

Papabear Says

Bonn Bonn you're liar I never said that I was better than you. I'm just not going to take the doom and gloom route. I'm going to enjoy my Knicks this season. You have a negative view on the Knicks and that is fine with me. I just want to have fun and enjoy the game. I want to enjoy Melo and the rest of the team. When Melo came here It gave us hope or should I say it gave me hope. I just won't let you and the twins rain on my parade all season with the negativity you guys will be posting all season about the Knicks. You do your thing and I will do mine.

Well you say you have a problem with other posters. That makes it clear you see something wrong or problematic with them. Unless you have an equally big problem with yourself, clearly you are saying you are better.

I can reverse that and say you think you are better than me. Hey !! I don't really care!! Live in your world of doom and gloom. What I am saying is I am not. I am going to Knicks games and I plan to have a great time. I will enjoy the Knicks season. I will be enjoying Melo and Shump and the rest of the Knicks. You go ahead and do what you do and I will do what I do and that's enjoy my Knicks And you and the twins can't take that from me.

JamesKPolk wrote:You have no time for anyone because you're too busy trolling this forum.

Papabear Says

Polk this will be the last time I will respond to you. I am a Knicks die hard fan. I enjoy the Knicks. and if loving my Knicks team is being a troll, then I guess I'm one. But if being a Knicks hater of doom and gloom you favor. Go right ahead and be that. But as for me I am looking foward to this coming season going to some Knicks games and having fun. As for you just be miserable with rest of your hate crew and bash the team. I really don't care because like I said before when it comes to the Knicks, you probably spend no money, you do not support the team, you are mad because I have a positive view about this season and I call out baby Bonn Bonn and the doom and gloom twins. Hey just put me on ignore like I did someone because to me I repeat you are irrelevant.

nixluva wrote:Being upset with the way Dolan runs the franchise is a separate issue from supporting the players and what they do on the court. This team is not a team full of bums!!! This team has a winning record and has the chance to get to the ECF's this year just like all the other playoff teams from last year. Why should we be down on the team just because the owner is a jerk and doesn't know how to manage his staff? As long as the TEAM is winning I can ignore the dumb crap that Dolan does. I've been supporting this team for far too long. Going back to the 70's with this team and never have checked out as a fan. Dolan can't take that from me.

We have little to no chance of getting out of the 2nd round (if we get there), let alone getting to the Eastern Conference Finals. This team isn't that good.

Dolan directly affects the team winning and losing. The team will never take the right step forward towards a title or a consistent contender as long as he is around.

Papabear wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Markji wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Markji wrote:

Papabear wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:If Isola's piece is true and Dolan didn't think we improved enough over the summer, what the heck did he want Grunnie to do. We had a late 1st rounder, no second round pick, no cap space, one tiny MMLE, no ability to sign and trade, and every extra dollar of salary we aquirred would lead to a massive tax bill. Guess Dolan was the moron who demanded we try and get Monta Ellis.

dolan isnt a rational person, he wont think like that, what he will do is get pissed that the Nets are getting a ton of praise while the Knicks are being dismissed.

thats enough for Dolan to react.

isn't dolan the same fellow who brokered a trade for carmelo anthony, gutting the team of valuable assets, and hamstringing the team financially for the ensuing campaigns? and now we hear that melo is agitating for change or he walks? let's tally up the collateral damage:

fields
gallinari
chandler
mozgov
stat
walsh
d'antoni
lin
grunwald

on tap is shumpert.

Damage caused by who? Dolan (I hope you're not talking about Melo)? A lot of those things you either can't blame on them or actually turned out well for us.

dolan is always the source of the bad, ultimately. but you can't say with a straight face, given http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1789193-knicks-front-office-shakeup-grunwald-out-mills-in-and-melo-in-the-middle#comments that melo is merely an innocent victim here, having no ability to catalyze anything.

or can you? in my opinion dolan and melo are made for each other, they enable each others considerable weaknesses. where they are destruction cannot be far off.

have you ever heard of "malignant narcissism" or "malignant narcissists?" 'cause that is what has been going down here. a classic case in fact, plain as day.

marbury same
thomas same
mills likely the same

Look, I'm not denying that Melo has some influence within the organization. Probably every franchise player does. However, I dont believe he orchestrated firing Grunwald in this situation. This was Dolan getting his buddy back into MSG. Nothing to do with Melo, in my opinion.

Papabear Says

You ever wonder why some of these guys are still Knicks fans?? They hate the management they hate the star players or even the team. So why are they here. Every thing that's wrong with this team is Melo's fault. It's sick. And they repeat the same damn thing over and over again. Dolan owns this team whether we like it or not. It ain't changing. So its best for them to move to another team that they like and is willing to root for and that is any team who ain't the Knicks.

You're hardly the most positive poster here. I find it puzzling that you think you've figured out the cut-off beyond which criticism indicates that you're not a real fan.

Papabear Says

At least I'm a Knicks Fan! And I go to games and enjoy MSG. What about you?? I'm positive about the Knicks. Here is my problem, some of you have nothing but anger and hate and its all Melo's fault. Hey Bonn Bonn its Dolan's money it's Dolan's cash. Bonn Bonn I repeat it's Dolan's and you are just a half tail negative poster with the twin brothers who are about nothing but doom and gloom. Maybe when you hit the big lottery you might have enough to buy a little piece of the Knicks Franchise which is the richest in the NBA. So no one cares about you and the twins doom and gloom. As for me I'm going to at least 10 Knicks games this season and guess what?? I'm gonna have a great time.

PapaBear, I agree with you on being positive about the Knicks. I always am at this point....at the beginning of the season. Why not be positive. Enjoy life. Enjoy last season's 54 wins and this upcoming season.

I hate Dolan's firing of Grunwald. I liked Grunwald. I like Melo. I 1/2 dislike Dolan; the half that meddles in the running of the team with his super, napoleanic ego. But I do like the fact that he is not cheap and spends large amounts of money, to at least try, to make the Knicks winners. He may not make the wisest moves, but he does open up the wallet.

If winning the Championship is the only thing that would make a fan happy, then only 3.33% of the NBA fans will ever be happy in any season. But, like PapaBear, I too enjoy the Knicks, especially when they win 54 games. We have a good team. Enjoy it.

There's a big difference between winning one playoff series a decade and winning a championship every year. You can be upset with the former without demanding the latter.

I agree with that. Being upset is OK. Bitching about it is OK. But then at some point, one has to move on. I'm putting my attention on the team. And praying that Dolan doesn't force any more crazy moves.

OK, fair enough. I thought you were going down the "I'm better than you" papabear route.

Papabear Says

Bonn Bonn you're liar I never said that I was better than you. I'm just not going to take the doom and gloom route. I'm going to enjoy my Knicks this season. You have a negative view on the Knicks and that is fine with me. I just want to have fun and enjoy the game. I want to enjoy Melo and the rest of the team. When Melo came here It gave us hope or should I say it gave me hope. I just won't let you and the twins rain on my parade all season with the negativity you guys will be posting all season about the Knicks. You do your thing and I will do mine.

Well you say you have a problem with other posters. That makes it clear you see something wrong or problematic with them. Unless you have an equally big problem with yourself, clearly you are saying you are better.

Papabear Says

I can reverse that and say you think you are better than me. Hey !! I don't really care!! Live in your world of doom and gloom. What I am saying is I am not. I am going to Knicks games and I plan to have a great time. I will enjoy the Knicks season. I will be enjoying Melo and Shump and the rest of the Knicks. You go ahead and do what you do and I will do what I do and that's enjoy my Knicks And you and the twins can't take that from me.

You could try to reverse it but it wouldn't work. See, I don't go around telling people they're not real fans. Of course "the twins" and I will do what we do. And you'll keep telling us you're a better fan than we are because you support Dolan more than we do. I guess that's just you doing what you do.