playa2 wrote:You want me to get arrested huh ? Do you believe people today can be used in MK Ultra either as patsies or assassins ?

"Answering" my straightforward question with more questions, huh? Kinda weak but I'll play along.

Is an MK ULTRA scenario here possible? I suppose so. Is it probable? Not to my mind, due to the lack of evidence and the simpler explanations available. But I was hoping you'd answer my very simple question to provide evidence to your theory, in spite of fishmike's warning that you never will.

So you could name names, but won't because you fear arrest? Is the truth illegal? You've said you aren't letting the mainstream media trick you into fear, yet you suddenly sound mad shook, fearing arrest for naming the shadowy figures responsible for the child-murdering conspiracy you've laid before us anonymously on a Knicks message board from the "alternative" media. Is UK a CIA honeypot? I never did trust ScoreBot.

Just a little humor... I'll give you another chance. WHO SPECIFICALLY IS RESPONSIBLE? And "the Government" isn't a specific enough answer for me.

It's OK to say "I don't know" if that's your honest answer.

DrAlphaeus wrote:Sorry to take this so far off-topic y'all, but I can't help myself...

playa2 wrote:You want me to get arrested huh ? Do you believe people today can be used in MK Ultra either as patsies or assassins ?

"Answering" my straightforward question with more questions, huh? Kinda weak but I'll play along.

Is an MK ULTRA scenario here possible? I suppose so. Is it probable? Not to my mind, due to the lack of evidence and the simpler explanations available. But I was hoping you'd answer my very simple question to provide evidence to your theory, in spite of fishmike's warning that you never will.

So you could name names, but won't because you fear arrest? Is the truth illegal? You've said you aren't letting the mainstream media trick you into fear, yet you suddenly sound mad shook, fearing arrest for naming the shadowy figures responsible for the child-murdering conspiracy you've laid before us anonymously on a Knicks message board from the "alternative" media. Is UK a CIA honeypot? I never did trust ScoreBot.

Just a little humor... I'll give you another chance. WHO SPECIFICALLY IS RESPONSIBLE? And "the Government" isn't a specific enough answer for me.

It's OK to say "I don't know" if that's your honest answer.

arkrud wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:Making guns illegal is a solution but I do not think it is a possibility in US.
It is possible to do and was done in totalitarian countries because to make it work you need a total control of people lives.
It was done in countries which are advanced enough to reject violence. US is surrey not - we embrace it in movies, comic books, video games, sports, entertainment. So we collectively get what we are asking for.
In US this ban will only lead to creation of all-powerful gun mafia same as it did with boos and drags.
Mafia will get the biggest gains from this ban.
Every kid can get drugs from drug dealers any time he want in any place in this country. He just need money and sometimes he will get drugs for free to make him an addict and a "good customer" in the future.Why this will be different with guns?
We need to stop glorify violence even if violence is done by "good guys" and "superheros". Can we?
I am not sure. It is much more difficult that just ban the guns.

ahhh... no, no they cant. Again, more totally fabricated notions to support an opnion.

You want drugs you have to look and ask, and that looking and asking alone may lead to you getting caught. Yes, in high school (80s) weed and beer were mostly available if you knew someone with an older sybling or connection. Anything harder was rare, and if you got desperate for weed and had go buy off the street you were at pretty big risk of getting caught, getting your ass kicked or getting ripped off. So no, any kid that says "lets get high" cant just go out and do it. Sorry.

Mentall illness is a much bigger issue.

Its not the mafia and drug guns that are the problem. Those are mostly used on other mafia and drug gangs/dealers.

I agree that this small provincial places have less drag availability but in NY, NJ, LA... you go to certain place and you will find drug dealer at every corner.
Yes you can get in trouble by asking... but with guns when somebody determined to go on shooting spree... he will take chance to ask.
Guns are banned in Russia but terrorist came to school in Beslan and killed hundreds of people, mostly kids.
There are better solutions but they are costly.
For example with all the endless Jihad and Islamic terror attacks that hit Israel, kids in schools are safe because every school has armed guards at points of entry. People never barge into schools in Israel and start a shooting rampage. They would be shot and killed immediately. You cannot murder children in Israeli schools because the adults treat them like the priceless treasures they are.
We do have guards in NYC schools especially in bad neighborhoods so why not to make it a requirement. It will be a good use of Army and Reserve to serve the society and will create a lot of jobs in security firms.

agree... but your examples are not good because they have little relevence here. The Russian attack came in an area of a hundred years of ethnic hate and violence. The Israeli school example also doesnt fit as they are a military state and under constant attack of that nature.

And I live in NJ, and if you dont know someone you have to go to an area of very high risk if you want to buy drugs off a street. There's a damn good chance that dopey rich kids driving around slummy areas in nice cars asking random dudes where they can get some hooch are gonna get caught and fast. It *seems* easy but its not that easy and its high risk. The deterent works (breaking the law).

Its got to be harder to get these types of weapons. They were all legally aquired. You cant stop this crime, but the laws work and the evidence cant be refuted. There is no solution, but it doesnt mean there cant be progress. (assuming fake crying Obamo doesnt order more attacks on children to push his legislation)

Israel is not a military state. You probably never visited otherwise you will now that this is liberal propoganda nonsense.
Israely people are bearing arms to protect their state and their people from enemies who cannot accept their existence.
Is it the same as we Americans are stand for and were made of?
There is no middle ground here - or we all have rights to protect themselves with guns or nobody has.
Instead we as society want to come up with some "politically correct" solution to please everybody.
Time to stop this bs and make a decision what is more important and essential - freedom or security.

no... never been to Israel. Have some friends who have an and served in the army as that is mandatory. It is a 100% a military state. Just check the population vs the size of the army and military resources. Yes, its for their protection for the reasons you mention. My point is simply they have a threat the US does not.

There's always a middle ground. Concessions can be made by both sides. Its legal to drink and drive right? Its legal to look at porn right? Its legal to own a firearm right? But can I get loaded and drive? Can I look at porn of 14 year old girls? Can I leave my firearm loaded in the glove comp just in case? Yes to all, but I face the law, and those laws catch people and work. Nothing will ever stop folks from doing what they want, but a guy with 50 guns was just taken into custody, kiddie porn trafficers are jailed and those who look at the material are at risk and often caught and drunk drivers are caught and those deaths have dropped since those laws took place.

Military state is not the state where everybody have to and by the way like to join the army but state which is controlled by military
commanders. Israel is democratic state controlled by elected government. Army is what they must use to exist.
Cannot agree more - the lows are working but they cannot prevent every shooting and every crime. To have a low is not enough.
The society must change to stop promoting and commercializing violence. People with weak minds cannot stop playing the computer game or watch action movie and take or to the street or to the school. You cannot bun all of this by creating new lows and bans.
It's a good old thing - "All we need is Love, Love is all we need"

agree on all this... your right about Israel, and thats honestly what I meant, just meaning that the military there is everywhere because it has to be. They have armed guards at schools to protect against a clearly defined threat. Whats ours?

Agree 100% on the love part also man. Understanding and compassion is where it must start, but those are not gov instilled values, they are community. I dont have the answer there, except as parent I take responsibility for my kids. I was lucky to grow up in a house free of racism and hate. Im passing that along. Some are not so lucky, and some are just broken. Action is always important though, even if its effectiveness is in question.

Pretty good article too summ it all on good live example.
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/the-us-should-learn-from-israel-how-to-permit-not-outlaw-guns/2012/12/16/
It is time to stop yapping and start working on the solutions.
But not sure if our buroucratic governments on all levels can do any work. And this is really sad...

The Jewish Press is one of the most right wing papers you can ever read, strictly catering to the ultra orthodox.

So what it has to do with the facts and solution that works?
If you are black and KKK member saved you and your family for burning house is he still you worst enemy?

I can't even imagine that scenario but that would be crazy having a Klansman on my Christmas card list. You have a way with words, that's for sure.

But that was a good article. Sound argument about how a change in permitting and the culture of guns needs to be a part of it. If the NRA was spending its money promoting rifling, skeet shooting, hunting, as a sport to bring people together, a right and a privilege, instead of the marketing arm of gun manufacturers, they may even get my support. I wonder was the NSSF more like the better example?

Hell, if you are going to be an ethical meat-eater with a Whole Foods canvas bag, why not test your mettle and kill and skin some real free range game? See if you really are a meat-eater when it's not yet in cellophane and styrofoam. Might attract your slow foodies and eco-lefties! I'm probably too old to start hunting. But there is a way to bring respect and honor back to it, it just is going to be a hard road when the cheap buck solutions are easier... on all sides.

One thing I always say about guns and shooting: they are an important aspect of American martial arts. We should treat guns with honor and ceremony-like reverence (but not worship) like other cultures do with their arts like kung fu, archery, or fencing. When you are learning a martial art you are learning how to kill someone. This should not be taken lightly or by everybody. That's why God made water guns, paintball, NERF, and first-person shooters. Actually those paintball monitors don't play that "no cover in the tent" ****, they will bounce you from the arena quick if you goof around. 'Coz you can put someone's eye out! Add the mechanical advancement aspect - owning a bike has different responsibilities than owning a car even if they are both means of transit, and it's sure hard to buy and engineer a train... it's a great argument for gun education & permitting reform... and reform in mental health, family health, public safety... I'm all ears.

I saw in a newspaper article comment section a guy starting a foundation to employ veterans to be armed guards for public facilities. https://www.facebook.com/GuardOurSchools They had an argument that it is easier for Obama to talk about banning assault weapons when his family is guarded by them. They have a point somewhat. But he HAS avoided gun control to get and stay in office, because he didn't want to lose those votes or dollars. But now this story might change the tide back to... the Clinton years? He had that assault weapon ban. Did that REALLY affect folks negatively? Did it expire because it was found to be unnecessary or did lobbyists pay the right folks enough after a while? I also remember a lot of militia talk back then. Some of it seemed kinda geared against darker fellas like me whose house they wouldn't mind seeing burned down. Consealed carry. Why are you hiding it? If I trust you to carry it around me because I know you they wouldn't give you one unless you were a black belt trained by Mister Miyagi, show that **** so no one effs with us, especially some crooked ass Cobra Kai! I'm not going to trust just anybody, I barely trust the folks they pay to do it with the cool badges. They get trained and paid to do it and still occasionally screw up or use them unjustly. But you can't have the same policy nationwide: New York City ain't Montana because drywall is thinner than a country mile. Less richochets out there too.

It's so crazy: is this an honest citizen response to a crisis? Private police forces? I hope it's not a callous business-driven move, and is a sincere way to help stop violence and employ highly-skilled vets. And as a self-employed person, I acknowledge the newly-created market! Just as I figured gun sales would go nuts. Just as I imagine mental health professionals and researchers are going to get higher funding in education, especially since the victims were educators and students. And the teachers retirement fund's divestment of the Freedom Group lead to a capital group to divest themselves. So previously, those retired teachers benefitted from gun sales! Corporations are people, Romney was right... or people's money. So I'd hope we could change things with the ballot box, the cash register, Wall Street, and K street before the bullet. I'm trying to stay positive while staying skeptical. It's a new year coming after all.

playa2 wrote:I see what's going on here good Dr, I will let you " your companions " continue to bait & doubt. I will continue to share my theory in the off-topic forum, you guys already know what's not true but have no motive or answers. When more people die in the same fashion in hospitals and Libraries etc... then come talk to me.

This is what Dr Alp & Fishmike want me to believe for solid & credible information ROFL, I will stick to people who desire truth not not fables.

This is unreal !

Don't know about the others, I'm still waiting for some kind of theory from you. All you have done is made unclear posts but never presented a theory on how or why people this is happening and why you are sure it will happen again. A theory is not just throwing out disjointed information.....rather it is putting together that information AND coming up with a hypothesis.

personally, im a bit of conspiracy theorist (i find it interesting) but let's be honest, facts are needed for ALL of these ideas. you would do better for yourself if you just answered the questions they're giving you instead of dodging and posting more videos.

gunsnewing wrote:except you and your gun don't stand a chance against the gov't if in so convoluted world Playa's conspiracy was true

That's kinda naive, me and my gun are not the issue. It's me and 300 million citizens with the right to protect ourselves.

playa2 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

playa2 wrote:I see what's going on here good Dr, I will let you " your companions " continue to bait & doubt. I will continue to share my theory in the off-topic forum, you guys already know what's not true but have no motive or answers. When more people die in the same fashion in hospitals and Libraries etc... then come talk to me.

This is what Dr Alp & Fishmike want me to believe for solid & credible information ROFL, I will stick to people who desire truth not not fables.

This is unreal !

Don't know about the others, I'm still waiting for some kind of theory from you. All you have done is made unclear posts but never presented a theory on how or why people this is happening and why you are sure it will happen again. A theory is not just throwing out disjointed information.....rather it is putting together that information AND coming up with a hypothesis.

I thought you knew, Let Ice-T tell ya

From the guy who has made his living playing a cop on a show called "Law and Order"...

Anji wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:except you and your gun don't stand a chance against the gov't if in so convoluted world Playa's conspiracy was true

That's kinda naive, me and my gun are not the issue. It's me and 300 million citizens with the right to protect ourselves.

300 million: the entire population of the United States has the right to own and use a gun? Of course not. They don't even all have the right to vote.

You can't give a 6-year-old a concealed weapon permit. Convicted felons lose their right to vote and use a gun. We have age and competency limits for gun users.

"me and my gun are not the issue" - says you. Wouldn't mind knowing that a "well-regulated" authority of some sort is vouching for you.