tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

holfresh wrote:Man...Just a question...3G amd tkf...Are u guys Knick fans or still Knicks fans...I ask because the play thus far of this team is what we have been looking for about 10 years now...I have no idea if this continues...But looking at coaching and the team itself, they seem to be on the verge of something...We went toe to toe with some of the NBA's best and hung in there and stumbled a little...Isn't that what u want as a fan in November..Who cares how we got here..We are here...There is no true right path...No true right players to make up a winning team...Sometimes it just happens...This team looks close...Aren't you in the least bit happy about that??...

I'm not gonna lie the team is difficult to root for with certain players on it but I can be won over. Major doubts remain for me. I do not like our overall chucking style of play even though we are moving the ball. I would like to see us shoot 20 3's/gm as an average. We're playing to look for the 3 or pull up out of PNR or Lob out of PNR.

Kidd has surprised me a lot. I even give credit to Sheed for the long layoff and yet he looks like he hasn't lost a whole lot. Didn't care for his antics and carrying on yesterday. I do feel the age factors in for sustained levels of high play as the season progresses. I guess you can't fault the player and more so the acquisition in general. I don't see this roster staying together for a long time. I see constant changing parts those of which won't provide any major impact on making us become a force for yrs to come.

There are players on this team who I don't dislike but never liked their style of play. Such as Brewer and Chandler.

Smith has improved along with Melo in terms of team play although I dislike them as players/game/individuals. I don't think they have high character at all.

I think Woodson is somewhat of a parody of himself, I think he tries too hard to get his George Micheal on. I do like the fact he's made this team play defense and he will not play you unless you're playing it(giving real effort) but I also feel he has a PECKING ORDER/FAVORITISM style to his coaching which I don't care for.

i am going to ech0 the same thing holfresh since you addressed both of us... I am not a fan of most of the guys on this team and how we were assembled, but as 3g said, I can be won over, but it is going to take a lot, and even then dont expect me to join the carmelo fan club...

I like kidd and honestly have been surpised by sheed, but I don't see any long term growth with these guys seems like short term rentals with no real plan outside of this year... so it is hard for me to buy in. I mean take a look at memphis, if I were a fan I could appreciate that kind of growth and can appreciate how that product has come together...

I am a fan, not a hater, but just not happy with how things are put together.. although I am happy we are 6-1..

Just to echo what Holfresh is saying, once you put on the Blue and Orange and you are down with us, then I'm down with you. Melo's play and even JR since you mention him quite a bit, directly effects the W's and L's of my team. So I root for them to succeed. Didn't follow neither of them very much when they played with the Nuggs, but now they are on my fav team so now I'm a fan.

Lets be honest, we've seen players with far more shady backgrounds join the Knicks and they became fan favorites. We all know about Sprewell's background and lets be honest, the great Bernard King was getting in all sorts of trouble out in Utah from drinking to fighting, etc. He joined us and I didn't care what he did in the past. Just wanted him to help my team win.

Ultimately, as Hol said, it shouldn't matter how we got here who helped us get here. We are here. We've been waiting for this for over a decade. I think the problem that you and others have is that you want to win your way. Meaning you and others want to win with certain type of players and personnel. Am I wrong? To me, again, it doesn't matter, the 2012-2013 team is all we got right now and I'm going to enjoy the ride. Right now, I dont care about the 2009-2010 Knicks nor am I worried about the 2014-2015 Knicks. Thats neither here nor there. All we have is today/this year and I'm really enjoying the ride thus far....

nah, sorry it doesn't work that way. I won't root for guys I see as selfish, and disruptive... pretty much the same way when I like a player and he leaves, I still like the player...I am not going to trash him because he left our team, and I am not going to champion some guy whom I saw a scrub before he came here.. it doesn't work that way with me..

Hey, I want to win, I love winning, and I hope the knicks win, I am just not backing certain dudes on this team... and no this is not all about enjoying the ride, the ride is not enjoyable, winning is fine, but this bunch doesn't excite me as a fan....

Curious...What were your feelings on Sprewell upon his arrival?

CAUTIOUS.....I always liked him as a player.. the situation with PJ was unfortunate, so I had guarded optimism, but when he came here, he was nothing but a great teamate, didn't get a coach fired, didn't call his teamates contract ridiculous, even played out of position willingly, giving up playing his normal position.. he did all of these things without hesitation, and it helped us win from the start, no excuses, no false promises and none of the silly foot in mouth interviews..... He earned my trust as a fan.....

No Spree didn't get a coach fired, he just choked his ass instead. That trumps anything that any Knick has ever done. He didn't willingly accept his role as 6th man. He complained often and Van Gundy addressed the situation on numerous occasions. Doesn't being a good teammate include showing up to practice on time, which Spree didn't do very often. Not to mention skipping out on team obligations. I had no problems rooting for Spree when he was here because, but what he did to Dolan in front of America when he returned to MSG was embarrassing. I have my own issues with Dolan, but what Spree did was completely unprofessional.

And of course Spree helped us win from the start because the team wasn't stripped to bring him here. Ewing, LJ, Camby and Houston was already here and ready to win. Speaking of getting a coach fired, Ewing did that but I'm sure nobody holds that against him. I wont address the 'Ridiculous contract' comment other than to say it was taken out of context.

I think you are referring to spree at the end of his knick career when both he and camby were acting a fool.. when spree first got here he wasn't in game shape a bit heavy and rusty.. he played most of the games off the bench and was effective... I am sure he wanted to start but he didn't disrupt the team... and the knicks went on one of their best runs(playoff runs) with spreewell...

towards the end of his knick tenure things got a bit weird and I was not sad to see spree go.. but I had no problem rooting for him.. as far as the PJ incident, he had his contract voided he paid a huge price..

so year he choked his coach, and carmelo sucker slapped a knick player.. and ran... like a punk..... not a fan of that...

As far as ewing getting nelson fired, i didn't like it, but Ewing had time here, won here, was a success here....

the problem I have is melo came here, didn't do a thing and started getting coachs fired, speaking out on teamates, not playing hard as he admitted. the guy is a punk in every sense of the word..

but really, what are you trying to accomplish with this? very different situations.. tell carmelo to help us win a few playoff series and then maybe people can put some of his BS behind them.. until then.....

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

holfresh wrote:Man...Just a question...3G amd tkf...Are u guys Knick fans or still Knicks fans...I ask because the play thus far of this team is what we have been looking for about 10 years now...I have no idea if this continues...But looking at coaching and the team itself, they seem to be on the verge of something...We went toe to toe with some of the NBA's best and hung in there and stumbled a little...Isn't that what u want as a fan in November..Who cares how we got here..We are here...There is no true right path...No true right players to make up a winning team...Sometimes it just happens...This team looks close...Aren't you in the least bit happy about that??...

I'm not gonna lie the team is difficult to root for with certain players on it but I can be won over. Major doubts remain for me. I do not like our overall chucking style of play even though we are moving the ball. I would like to see us shoot 20 3's/gm as an average. We're playing to look for the 3 or pull up out of PNR or Lob out of PNR.

Kidd has surprised me a lot. I even give credit to Sheed for the long layoff and yet he looks like he hasn't lost a whole lot. Didn't care for his antics and carrying on yesterday. I do feel the age factors in for sustained levels of high play as the season progresses. I guess you can't fault the player and more so the acquisition in general. I don't see this roster staying together for a long time. I see constant changing parts those of which won't provide any major impact on making us become a force for yrs to come.

There are players on this team who I don't dislike but never liked their style of play. Such as Brewer and Chandler.

Smith has improved along with Melo in terms of team play although I dislike them as players/game/individuals. I don't think they have high character at all.

I think Woodson is somewhat of a parody of himself, I think he tries too hard to get his George Micheal on. I do like the fact he's made this team play defense and he will not play you unless you're playing it(giving real effort) but I also feel he has a PECKING ORDER/FAVORITISM style to his coaching which I don't care for.

There's nothing wrong with honesty here. I've never been a fan of the way Melo and JR play and it takes a lot of extra effort to get myself to root for them. If JR keeps anything close to this up, he will completely win me over. I still wish Melo would take better shots. I think he'd be much better taking 16 high quality shots instead of the 21 shots a game he does take. But I can acknowledge that he does have a net positive impact on the team.

I so disagree with you bro...I do admit Melo takes some horrendous shots at times...But u can't put a number on what he should take...It's all part of the flow of the offense and game...If he takes 16 shots does it mean they will be high quality...I'm more concern with him taking shots within the flow of what the team is doing...He is our number one target, who is to say what he will need to take on a given night, given the game situation...It's not something that can be quantified...People rode Felton for taking 23 shots a few games ago...A few were forced yes but most was within the flow of the offense...Melo was being doubled and some one had to step up..We won..Yet complaints...Flow of the game dictates how many shots your primary offensive player takes or a secondary guy...How do you come up with 16 good, 21 bad for a guy like Melo...16 good, 21 bad for Kobe...16 good, 21 bad for LeBron...How do u know??

actually you can put a number on the number of shots he should take. you look at how many shots he takes per game and count the number of bad shots he takes. then you take that emperical evidence and see how it dovetails with the statistics or defies them. in melo's case it dovetails. he takes 5-6 bad shots per game and with a career average of around 19-20 shots per game he should take fewer shots and/or be far more selective in the shots he takes. it shows up all over the place with him.

and you are dead wrong about taking bad shots within the flow of the offense-- there's no such thing. a bad shot is going to be outside the offensive flow by definition.

you also allude to results as being the sine qua non for a team. again this is false, for eventually HOW you win becomes more and more important as the competition grows stiffer. and this goes back to HOW melo and smith and felton play.

I'm not really sure where u are getting me saying it's ok to take bad shots as long as it's within the flow of the offense...Where did you see that???...What I did say it's ok to take as many shots as he likes as long as it's within the flow of the offense..How do u put a limit on our best scorer??..U say he shoots 5-6 bad shots per game...Do u think cutting his shots down to 16 will all together illuminate his bad shots, no...They come at different intervals of the game...So let's say Melo is only taking 15 shots per game now to "illuminate" those so called "bad shots"...we estimated that he takes 1 bad shot in every five shots, correct??...You best scorer is passing up 4 good shots and 1 bad shot...Who do u want taking those shots???Does that make sense to u???

"I do admit Melo takes some horrendous shots at times...But u can't put a number on what he should take...It's all part of the flow of the offense and game"

sorry charlie but people don't want tuna with good taste but tuna that tastes good! LOL

look i don't know how else to understand your point other than what i wrote. maybe you can rephrase what you really meant. to me your point of view is putting the cart before the horse, that is, it's okay to take bad and forced shots as long as they're within the flow of the offense. what i am saying is offensive flow is based on the taking of good and unforced shots. bad shots ruin whatever offensive flow there would otherwise be. and lets not forget that in the playoffs against a team like miami a bad shot, especially a three pointer with a long rebound, is the same as a turnover. if we are going to beat miami in the playoffs we will need to take only good shots, especially on the long shots, or they will be off to the races and score many points off both turnovers and bad shots.

and your math about cutting back on 5-6 shots is simply fallacious. yes he takes 4 good shots for every 1 bad shot statistically but that does not translate to passing up those good shots-- it simply means pruning the bad shots out of his game. that way he shoots 8-15 or 9-16 instead of 10-22. yes he'll end up scoring 4-5 points less but the net positive for the team is more offensive cohesion or flow, including keeping everyone else involved. he is a career 46% shooter but if he is to be considered an elite scorer as you think he already is then he should be shooting closer to 50% and frankly over 50%. and his TS% should be close to 60% which would put him among those you consider his peers as scorers like durant and lbj... or dirk when healthy.

the only other way he can "earn" those bad shots is by improving in other areas of his game, most notably his assists per game, steals per game, offensive rebounds, and of course defense and hustle plays. to is credit he has done better in the two latter categories which buys him some non-statsheet cred and tends to contribute to esprit du corps.

mrKnickShot wrote:Kobe took/takes awful shots but as you said, its livable since he brings those other aspects that cover up the stink of the bad shots.

Melo needs to do more to cover up the stink.

You do agree that his shot selection can be quite questionable at times? And, that it does hinder the team?

holfresh wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Hotfresh,

You do agree that his shot selection can be quite questionable at times? And, that it does hinder the team?

yes and I have already stated this a few times...

fair enough.

we are on the same page.

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

holfresh wrote:Man...Just a question...3G amd tkf...Are u guys Knick fans or still Knicks fans...I ask because the play thus far of this team is what we have been looking for about 10 years now...I have no idea if this continues...But looking at coaching and the team itself, they seem to be on the verge of something...We went toe to toe with some of the NBA's best and hung in there and stumbled a little...Isn't that what u want as a fan in November..Who cares how we got here..We are here...There is no true right path...No true right players to make up a winning team...Sometimes it just happens...This team looks close...Aren't you in the least bit happy about that??...

I'm not gonna lie the team is difficult to root for with certain players on it but I can be won over. Major doubts remain for me. I do not like our overall chucking style of play even though we are moving the ball. I would like to see us shoot 20 3's/gm as an average. We're playing to look for the 3 or pull up out of PNR or Lob out of PNR.

Kidd has surprised me a lot. I even give credit to Sheed for the long layoff and yet he looks like he hasn't lost a whole lot. Didn't care for his antics and carrying on yesterday. I do feel the age factors in for sustained levels of high play as the season progresses. I guess you can't fault the player and more so the acquisition in general. I don't see this roster staying together for a long time. I see constant changing parts those of which won't provide any major impact on making us become a force for yrs to come.

There are players on this team who I don't dislike but never liked their style of play. Such as Brewer and Chandler.

Smith has improved along with Melo in terms of team play although I dislike them as players/game/individuals. I don't think they have high character at all.

I think Woodson is somewhat of a parody of himself, I think he tries too hard to get his George Micheal on. I do like the fact he's made this team play defense and he will not play you unless you're playing it(giving real effort) but I also feel he has a PECKING ORDER/FAVORITISM style to his coaching which I don't care for.

i am going to ech0 the same thing holfresh since you addressed both of us... I am not a fan of most of the guys on this team and how we were assembled, but as 3g said, I can be won over, but it is going to take a lot, and even then dont expect me to join the carmelo fan club...

I like kidd and honestly have been surpised by sheed, but I don't see any long term growth with these guys seems like short term rentals with no real plan outside of this year... so it is hard for me to buy in. I mean take a look at memphis, if I were a fan I could appreciate that kind of growth and can appreciate how that product has come together...

I am a fan, not a hater, but just not happy with how things are put together.. although I am happy we are 6-1..

Just to echo what Holfresh is saying, once you put on the Blue and Orange and you are down with us, then I'm down with you. Melo's play and even JR since you mention him quite a bit, directly effects the W's and L's of my team. So I root for them to succeed. Didn't follow neither of them very much when they played with the Nuggs, but now they are on my fav team so now I'm a fan.

Lets be honest, we've seen players with far more shady backgrounds join the Knicks and they became fan favorites. We all know about Sprewell's background and lets be honest, the great Bernard King was getting in all sorts of trouble out in Utah from drinking to fighting, etc. He joined us and I didn't care what he did in the past. Just wanted him to help my team win.

Ultimately, as Hol said, it shouldn't matter how we got here who helped us get here. We are here. We've been waiting for this for over a decade. I think the problem that you and others have is that you want to win your way. Meaning you and others want to win with certain type of players and personnel. Am I wrong? To me, again, it doesn't matter, the 2012-2013 team is all we got right now and I'm going to enjoy the ride. Right now, I dont care about the 2009-2010 Knicks nor am I worried about the 2014-2015 Knicks. Thats neither here nor there. All we have is today/this year and I'm really enjoying the ride thus far....

nah, sorry it doesn't work that way. I won't root for guys I see as selfish, and disruptive... pretty much the same way when I like a player and he leaves, I still like the player...I am not going to trash him because he left our team, and I am not going to champion some guy whom I saw a scrub before he came here.. it doesn't work that way with me..

Hey, I want to win, I love winning, and I hope the knicks win, I am just not backing certain dudes on this team... and no this is not all about enjoying the ride, the ride is not enjoyable, winning is fine, but this bunch doesn't excite me as a fan....

Curious...What were your feelings on Sprewell upon his arrival?

CAUTIOUS.....I always liked him as a player.. the situation with PJ was unfortunate, so I had guarded optimism, but when he came here, he was nothing but a great teamate, didn't get a coach fired, didn't call his teamates contract ridiculous, even played out of position willingly, giving up playing his normal position.. he did all of these things without hesitation, and it helped us win from the start, no excuses, no false promises and none of the silly foot in mouth interviews..... He earned my trust as a fan.....

No Spree didn't get a coach fired, he just choked his ass instead. That trumps anything that any Knick has ever done. He didn't willingly accept his role as 6th man. He complained often and Van Gundy addressed the situation on numerous occasions. Doesn't being a good teammate include showing up to practice on time, which Spree didn't do very often. Not to mention skipping out on team obligations. I had no problems rooting for Spree when he was here because, but what he did to Dolan in front of America when he returned to MSG was embarrassing. I have my own issues with Dolan, but what Spree did was completely unprofessional.

And of course Spree helped us win from the start because the team wasn't stripped to bring him here. Ewing, LJ, Camby and Houston was already here and ready to win. Speaking of getting a coach fired, Ewing did that but I'm sure nobody holds that against him. I wont address the 'Ridiculous contract' comment other than to say it was taken out of context.

I think you are referring to spree at the end of his knick career when both he and camby were acting a fool.. when spree first got here he wasn't in game shape a bit heavy and rusty.. he played most of the games off the bench and was effective... I am sure he wanted to start but he didn't disrupt the team... and the knicks went on one of their best runs(playoff runs) with spreewell...

towards the end of his knick tenure things got a bit weird and I was not sad to see spree go.. but I had no problem rooting for him.. as far as the PJ incident, he had his contract voided he paid a huge price..

so year he choked his coach, and carmelo sucker slapped a knick player.. and ran... like a punk..... not a fan of that...

As far as ewing getting nelson fired, i didn't like it, but Ewing had time here, won here, was a success here....

the problem I have is melo came here, didn't do a thing and started getting coachs fired, speaking out on teamates, not playing hard as he admitted. the guy is a punk in every sense of the word..

but really, what are you trying to accomplish with this? very different situations.. tell carmelo to help us win a few playoff series and then maybe people can put some of his BS behind them.. until then.....

I was anti spree when the Knicks traded for him. I hated his character flaws and was a huge Starks and Cummings fan. I don't see how you can compare an on court altercation with a guy attacking and trying to kill his coach. There is a reason why Spree was suspended as long as he was. Reacting to a situation in a heated game is different from attacking your coach and trying to kill him. Too much hate here. Also, Melo has come out and said he had no idea D'ant was going to resign and thought everything was fine between them. Have you observed D'Antoni? While he is a very uptight rigid guy he attempts to portray a persona of an easy going laid back guy that doesn't sweat things. I think the Olympians and Melo saw him as that guy. I don't think Melo ever knew there was a huge problem between himself and the coach. I also think Melo is a pretty simple guy. He is honest in his answers and is either naive or not smart enough to realize that while what he says is what everyone else is thinking, he shouldn't say it. Maybe his quote about not playing as hard was a natural reaction to being asked to do things that weren't his strength and weren't working. At some point when you are really good at something and you keep being asked to do something you are not good at maybe you don't try as hard. Comparing a criminal act to an in game altercation destroys your credibility in my opinion.

lol..just cut out the theatrics.. you are the one comparing what spreewell did to what carmelo did... again.. I said I didn't agree with what spreewell did, what more do you want me to say?

I like spreewell the player..... I don't like carmelo the player at all... It can boil down to something as simple as that.. you are trying to make some connection as to why I Like spree and why I shouldn't dislike carmelo.. I dislike carmelo for a myriad of reasons.... one of them is that he was disruptive when he got here and hasn't helped our team win anything to date. more disruption than success..

If you can't reconcile that, then that is a YOU problem.. FOR THE RECORD AND I AM STATING THIS SO YOU CAN'T TWIST THIS ARGUMENT... I DIDN'T LIKE WHAT SPREEWELL DID ONE BIT..

OK that is out the way,now what argument do you have.. I took that away... I liked spree the player, and was willing to give him a chance, like I did marbury and others until they prove me wrong... I gave carmelo a chance and he failed my test... I stated the reasons... if you have a problem with that, then really there is nothing i can do for you sir..

Not sure why you even asked that question, honestly, they are two different players and two different situations.. pretty much knew where this was headed.... and I am nipping that in the bud....

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

holfresh wrote:Man...Just a question...3G amd tkf...Are u guys Knick fans or still Knicks fans...I ask because the play thus far of this team is what we have been looking for about 10 years now...I have no idea if this continues...But looking at coaching and the team itself, they seem to be on the verge of something...We went toe to toe with some of the NBA's best and hung in there and stumbled a little...Isn't that what u want as a fan in November..Who cares how we got here..We are here...There is no true right path...No true right players to make up a winning team...Sometimes it just happens...This team looks close...Aren't you in the least bit happy about that??...

I'm not gonna lie the team is difficult to root for with certain players on it but I can be won over. Major doubts remain for me. I do not like our overall chucking style of play even though we are moving the ball. I would like to see us shoot 20 3's/gm as an average. We're playing to look for the 3 or pull up out of PNR or Lob out of PNR.

Kidd has surprised me a lot. I even give credit to Sheed for the long layoff and yet he looks like he hasn't lost a whole lot. Didn't care for his antics and carrying on yesterday. I do feel the age factors in for sustained levels of high play as the season progresses. I guess you can't fault the player and more so the acquisition in general. I don't see this roster staying together for a long time. I see constant changing parts those of which won't provide any major impact on making us become a force for yrs to come.

There are players on this team who I don't dislike but never liked their style of play. Such as Brewer and Chandler.

Smith has improved along with Melo in terms of team play although I dislike them as players/game/individuals. I don't think they have high character at all.

I think Woodson is somewhat of a parody of himself, I think he tries too hard to get his George Micheal on. I do like the fact he's made this team play defense and he will not play you unless you're playing it(giving real effort) but I also feel he has a PECKING ORDER/FAVORITISM style to his coaching which I don't care for.

i am going to ech0 the same thing holfresh since you addressed both of us... I am not a fan of most of the guys on this team and how we were assembled, but as 3g said, I can be won over, but it is going to take a lot, and even then dont expect me to join the carmelo fan club...

I like kidd and honestly have been surpised by sheed, but I don't see any long term growth with these guys seems like short term rentals with no real plan outside of this year... so it is hard for me to buy in. I mean take a look at memphis, if I were a fan I could appreciate that kind of growth and can appreciate how that product has come together...

I am a fan, not a hater, but just not happy with how things are put together.. although I am happy we are 6-1..

Just to echo what Holfresh is saying, once you put on the Blue and Orange and you are down with us, then I'm down with you. Melo's play and even JR since you mention him quite a bit, directly effects the W's and L's of my team. So I root for them to succeed. Didn't follow neither of them very much when they played with the Nuggs, but now they are on my fav team so now I'm a fan.

Lets be honest, we've seen players with far more shady backgrounds join the Knicks and they became fan favorites. We all know about Sprewell's background and lets be honest, the great Bernard King was getting in all sorts of trouble out in Utah from drinking to fighting, etc. He joined us and I didn't care what he did in the past. Just wanted him to help my team win.

Ultimately, as Hol said, it shouldn't matter how we got here who helped us get here. We are here. We've been waiting for this for over a decade. I think the problem that you and others have is that you want to win your way. Meaning you and others want to win with certain type of players and personnel. Am I wrong? To me, again, it doesn't matter, the 2012-2013 team is all we got right now and I'm going to enjoy the ride. Right now, I dont care about the 2009-2010 Knicks nor am I worried about the 2014-2015 Knicks. Thats neither here nor there. All we have is today/this year and I'm really enjoying the ride thus far....

nah, sorry it doesn't work that way. I won't root for guys I see as selfish, and disruptive... pretty much the same way when I like a player and he leaves, I still like the player...I am not going to trash him because he left our team, and I am not going to champion some guy whom I saw a scrub before he came here.. it doesn't work that way with me..

Hey, I want to win, I love winning, and I hope the knicks win, I am just not backing certain dudes on this team... and no this is not all about enjoying the ride, the ride is not enjoyable, winning is fine, but this bunch doesn't excite me as a fan....

Curious...What were your feelings on Sprewell upon his arrival?

CAUTIOUS.....I always liked him as a player.. the situation with PJ was unfortunate, so I had guarded optimism, but when he came here, he was nothing but a great teamate, didn't get a coach fired, didn't call his teamates contract ridiculous, even played out of position willingly, giving up playing his normal position.. he did all of these things without hesitation, and it helped us win from the start, no excuses, no false promises and none of the silly foot in mouth interviews..... He earned my trust as a fan.....

No Spree didn't get a coach fired, he just choked his ass instead. That trumps anything that any Knick has ever done. He didn't willingly accept his role as 6th man. He complained often and Van Gundy addressed the situation on numerous occasions. Doesn't being a good teammate include showing up to practice on time, which Spree didn't do very often. Not to mention skipping out on team obligations. I had no problems rooting for Spree when he was here because, but what he did to Dolan in front of America when he returned to MSG was embarrassing. I have my own issues with Dolan, but what Spree did was completely unprofessional.

And of course Spree helped us win from the start because the team wasn't stripped to bring him here. Ewing, LJ, Camby and Houston was already here and ready to win. Speaking of getting a coach fired, Ewing did that but I'm sure nobody holds that against him. I wont address the 'Ridiculous contract' comment other than to say it was taken out of context.

I think you are referring to spree at the end of his knick career when both he and camby were acting a fool.. when spree first got here he wasn't in game shape a bit heavy and rusty.. he played most of the games off the bench and was effective... I am sure he wanted to start but he didn't disrupt the team... and the knicks went on one of their best runs(playoff runs) with spreewell...

towards the end of his knick tenure things got a bit weird and I was not sad to see spree go.. but I had no problem rooting for him.. as far as the PJ incident, he had his contract voided he paid a huge price..

so year he choked his coach, and carmelo sucker slapped a knick player.. and ran... like a punk..... not a fan of that...

As far as ewing getting nelson fired, i didn't like it, but Ewing had time here, won here, was a success here....

the problem I have is melo came here, didn't do a thing and started getting coachs fired, speaking out on teamates, not playing hard as he admitted. the guy is a punk in every sense of the word..

but really, what are you trying to accomplish with this? very different situations.. tell carmelo to help us win a few playoff series and then maybe people can put some of his BS behind them.. until then.....

I wa just trying to get some perspective from you and It rang loud and clear in your response. I was trying to figure out if your problem with Melo was type of character flaw that he has and others may also possess and you just dont like or cant relate to. Its obvious that's not the case. You just dont like Melo (period). And thats fine. I could care less.

But, the same way you complain about not being able to have an intelligent convo with some posters about certain topics, you have to understand, knowing your feelings on Melo, its also impossible to have an objective, non-biased convo about Melo with you. Is that fair to say?

NUPE wrote:I don't see the point of this thread. Almost every player in the top ten of scoring takes a few terrible shots per game. Melo's shot selection has been fine for the most part. His only issue has been missing layups which should solve itself eventually.

The Knicks are 6-1 and you still have people whining over Gallo (average player and often injured), Wilson (average player), Mosgov (sucks) and Lin (inferior to Felton). Seriously, people need to get off their high horses and accept that the team is clearly better now than it was and/or would be with the ex-knicks. I wish all the ex-knicks the best but there is no scenario where the knicks are better off with the aforesaid players and coach (_Antoni).

Now you are just trying to start trouble

Bonn1997 wrote:

NUPE wrote:I don't see the point of this thread. Almost every player in the top ten of scoring takes a few terrible shots per game. Melo's shot selection has been fine for the most part. His only issue has been missing layups which should solve itself eventually.

The Knicks are 6-1 and you still have people whining over Gallo (average player and often injured), Wilson (average player), Mosgov (sucks) and Lin (inferior to Felton). Seriously, people need to get off their high horses and accept that the team is clearly better now than it was and/or would be with the ex-knicks. I wish all the ex-knicks the best but there is no scenario where the knicks are better off with the aforesaid players and coach (_Antoni).

There's no reason a guy with his skill set should be a 43% shooter (or around .530 TS%). This article describes the problem with Melo's shot selection: http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/2010/10/19/carmelo-anthony-efficient/
He has many highly efficient teammates and that helps to make up for his occasional bad shots. But we'd be better off if he had better shot-selection.

We all know he has this issue.

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

holfresh wrote:Man...Just a question...3G amd tkf...Are u guys Knick fans or still Knicks fans...I ask because the play thus far of this team is what we have been looking for about 10 years now...I have no idea if this continues...But looking at coaching and the team itself, they seem to be on the verge of something...We went toe to toe with some of the NBA's best and hung in there and stumbled a little...Isn't that what u want as a fan in November..Who cares how we got here..We are here...There is no true right path...No true right players to make up a winning team...Sometimes it just happens...This team looks close...Aren't you in the least bit happy about that??...

I'm not gonna lie the team is difficult to root for with certain players on it but I can be won over. Major doubts remain for me. I do not like our overall chucking style of play even though we are moving the ball. I would like to see us shoot 20 3's/gm as an average. We're playing to look for the 3 or pull up out of PNR or Lob out of PNR.

Kidd has surprised me a lot. I even give credit to Sheed for the long layoff and yet he looks like he hasn't lost a whole lot. Didn't care for his antics and carrying on yesterday. I do feel the age factors in for sustained levels of high play as the season progresses. I guess you can't fault the player and more so the acquisition in general. I don't see this roster staying together for a long time. I see constant changing parts those of which won't provide any major impact on making us become a force for yrs to come.

There are players on this team who I don't dislike but never liked their style of play. Such as Brewer and Chandler.

Smith has improved along with Melo in terms of team play although I dislike them as players/game/individuals. I don't think they have high character at all.

I think Woodson is somewhat of a parody of himself, I think he tries too hard to get his George Micheal on. I do like the fact he's made this team play defense and he will not play you unless you're playing it(giving real effort) but I also feel he has a PECKING ORDER/FAVORITISM style to his coaching which I don't care for.

i am going to ech0 the same thing holfresh since you addressed both of us... I am not a fan of most of the guys on this team and how we were assembled, but as 3g said, I can be won over, but it is going to take a lot, and even then dont expect me to join the carmelo fan club...

I like kidd and honestly have been surpised by sheed, but I don't see any long term growth with these guys seems like short term rentals with no real plan outside of this year... so it is hard for me to buy in. I mean take a look at memphis, if I were a fan I could appreciate that kind of growth and can appreciate how that product has come together...

I am a fan, not a hater, but just not happy with how things are put together.. although I am happy we are 6-1..

Just to echo what Holfresh is saying, once you put on the Blue and Orange and you are down with us, then I'm down with you. Melo's play and even JR since you mention him quite a bit, directly effects the W's and L's of my team. So I root for them to succeed. Didn't follow neither of them very much when they played with the Nuggs, but now they are on my fav team so now I'm a fan.

Lets be honest, we've seen players with far more shady backgrounds join the Knicks and they became fan favorites. We all know about Sprewell's background and lets be honest, the great Bernard King was getting in all sorts of trouble out in Utah from drinking to fighting, etc. He joined us and I didn't care what he did in the past. Just wanted him to help my team win.

Ultimately, as Hol said, it shouldn't matter how we got here who helped us get here. We are here. We've been waiting for this for over a decade. I think the problem that you and others have is that you want to win your way. Meaning you and others want to win with certain type of players and personnel. Am I wrong? To me, again, it doesn't matter, the 2012-2013 team is all we got right now and I'm going to enjoy the ride. Right now, I dont care about the 2009-2010 Knicks nor am I worried about the 2014-2015 Knicks. Thats neither here nor there. All we have is today/this year and I'm really enjoying the ride thus far....

nah, sorry it doesn't work that way. I won't root for guys I see as selfish, and disruptive... pretty much the same way when I like a player and he leaves, I still like the player...I am not going to trash him because he left our team, and I am not going to champion some guy whom I saw a scrub before he came here.. it doesn't work that way with me..

Hey, I want to win, I love winning, and I hope the knicks win, I am just not backing certain dudes on this team... and no this is not all about enjoying the ride, the ride is not enjoyable, winning is fine, but this bunch doesn't excite me as a fan....

Curious...What were your feelings on Sprewell upon his arrival?

CAUTIOUS.....I always liked him as a player.. the situation with PJ was unfortunate, so I had guarded optimism, but when he came here, he was nothing but a great teamate, didn't get a coach fired, didn't call his teamates contract ridiculous, even played out of position willingly, giving up playing his normal position.. he did all of these things without hesitation, and it helped us win from the start, no excuses, no false promises and none of the silly foot in mouth interviews..... He earned my trust as a fan.....

No Spree didn't get a coach fired, he just choked his ass instead. That trumps anything that any Knick has ever done. He didn't willingly accept his role as 6th man. He complained often and Van Gundy addressed the situation on numerous occasions. Doesn't being a good teammate include showing up to practice on time, which Spree didn't do very often. Not to mention skipping out on team obligations. I had no problems rooting for Spree when he was here because, but what he did to Dolan in front of America when he returned to MSG was embarrassing. I have my own issues with Dolan, but what Spree did was completely unprofessional.

And of course Spree helped us win from the start because the team wasn't stripped to bring him here. Ewing, LJ, Camby and Houston was already here and ready to win. Speaking of getting a coach fired, Ewing did that but I'm sure nobody holds that against him. I wont address the 'Ridiculous contract' comment other than to say it was taken out of context.

I think you are referring to spree at the end of his knick career when both he and camby were acting a fool.. when spree first got here he wasn't in game shape a bit heavy and rusty.. he played most of the games off the bench and was effective... I am sure he wanted to start but he didn't disrupt the team... and the knicks went on one of their best runs(playoff runs) with spreewell...

towards the end of his knick tenure things got a bit weird and I was not sad to see spree go.. but I had no problem rooting for him.. as far as the PJ incident, he had his contract voided he paid a huge price..

so year he choked his coach, and carmelo sucker slapped a knick player.. and ran... like a punk..... not a fan of that...

As far as ewing getting nelson fired, i didn't like it, but Ewing had time here, won here, was a success here....

the problem I have is melo came here, didn't do a thing and started getting coachs fired, speaking out on teamates, not playing hard as he admitted. the guy is a punk in every sense of the word..

but really, what are you trying to accomplish with this? very different situations.. tell carmelo to help us win a few playoff series and then maybe people can put some of his BS behind them.. until then.....

I was anti spree when the Knicks traded for him. I hated his character flaws and was a huge Starks and Cummings fan. I don't see how you can compare an on court altercation with a guy attacking and trying to kill his coach. There is a reason why Spree was suspended as long as he was. Reacting to a situation in a heated game is different from attacking your coach and trying to kill him. Too much hate here. Also, Melo has come out and said he had no idea D'ant was going to resign and thought everything was fine between them. Have you observed D'Antoni? While he is a very uptight rigid guy he attempts to portray a persona of an easy going laid back guy that doesn't sweat things. I think the Olympians and Melo saw him as that guy. I don't think Melo ever knew there was a huge problem between himself and the coach. I also think Melo is a pretty simple guy. He is honest in his answers and is either naive or not smart enough to realize that while what he says is what everyone else is thinking, he shouldn't say it. Maybe his quote about not playing as hard was a natural reaction to being asked to do things that weren't his strength and weren't working. At some point when you are really good at something and you keep being asked to do something you are not good at maybe you don't try as hard. Comparing a criminal act to an in game altercation destroys your credibility in my opinion.

lol..just cut out the theatrics.. you are the one comparing what spreewell did to what carmelo did... again.. I said I didn't agree with what spreewell did, what more do you want me to say?

I like spreewell the player..... I don't like carmelo the player at all... It can boil down to something as simple as that.. you are trying to make some connection as to why I Like spree and why I shouldn't dislike carmelo.. I dislike carmelo for a myriad of reasons.... one of them is that he was disruptive when he got here and hasn't helped our team win anything to date. more disruption than success..

If you can't reconcile that, then that is a YOU problem.. FOR THE RECORD AND I AM STATING THIS SO YOU CAN'T TWIST THIS ARGUMENT... I DIDN'T LIKE WHAT SPREEWELL DID ONE BIT..

OK that is out the way,now what argument do you have.. I took that away... I liked spree the player, and was willing to give him a chance, like I did marbury and others until they prove me wrong... I gave carmelo a chance and he failed my test... I stated the reasons... if you have a problem with that, then really there is nothing i can do for you sir..

Not sure why you even asked that question, honestly, they are two different players and two different situations.. pretty much knew where this was headed.... and I am nipping that in the bud....

so year he choked his coach, and carmelo sucker slapped a knick player.. and ran... like a punk..... not a fan of that...

Your words. What was the test for Carmelo? I don't remember ever reading anything you have written about Melo that was objective and you have posted a lot here and at realgm on the topic. Also, I know where you stand on the Melo but not liking him and villifying are different things.

I am not villifying him at all, just stop it.. I don't like him, I think he is a child, I don't think he is a player to build around at all, He's just is not well rounded enough IMO, a good streak scorer, and at times a great streak scorer, but I have enough data on him that tells me, he is not the guy to build around....simple and plain, he is not a villian, just wish he stayed in denver and we had taken a much different course....and yes even if that course meant trading gallo, chandler, moz, etc. I would have been down for that, as long as it gave us a true foundation player.. not a flawed,career playoff losing, guy who behaves like a punk, takes a lot of bad shots and is the furthest thing from a leader I have ever seen..

Now I didn't want to go there, but you are pushing the issue.. I just rather leave it alone, this conversation although not bad is just going to attract the wrong posters who are looking to troll with the usual name calling and drive by shooting tactics, and I don't think that is what we want at this point.....

NUPE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:
Well clearly Nupe doesn't!

I see the team is 7-1. I see Melo missing a lot of layups right now which brings his fg% down. I don't see Melo taking many bad shots. I see Melo making extra passes and getting hockey assists as well. I see Melo playing good defense also. It seems the only issue is people with pre-determined opinions of Melo trying to make that opinion fit no matter what the circumstance.

I see people crying we should have gotten Deron who sucked most of last year and is not shooting much better than Melo this year.
I see people saying we should have gotten Joe Johnson who is shooting below 40%.
I have seen people mention Josh Smith who is not the type of player to build a team around due to lack of a sold offensive skill set.

Really, I just see a pack of whiners.

Nupe, many Melo fans are not blind to his deficiencies and where he needs to improve.

1. Defense - better
2. Rebounds - same / good
3. attacking the rim - solid
4. passing out of the double teams - good but could be much quicker and better
5. shot selection - better but still takes some really dumb shots

Overall - solid

Very few players in the league are this hard to contain