nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:It's time for the Knicks to call Melo's bluff.

I think all parties have operated in good faith, each just looking after their own best interests. But the Knicks have a good hand here, and it's time to play it. If Melo says he's willing to sign with the Nets, so be it. We can't compete with their offer - let him live in purgatory.

Melo, our cards are down, show your hand.

I'm with u Blue...I'll go so far as to pull players off the table...

I don't know about that. Why do something that could kill your goal of landing the player you want? I think we need to finally hear Melo say to Denver that he chooses the Knicks. It's his call. If he won't sign with NJ, then that means they have to accept the deal with NY. I've always felt that it's up to Melo to make this thing happen and i'm not happy that he's strung us out like this. What's the risk for him. EVERYONE knows he wants the Knicks!!!!

The Knicks are offering alot...I'll pull Felton off the table...If Melo signs with the Nets, I'll eat my shoe...

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:It's time for the Knicks to call Melo's bluff.

I think all parties have operated in good faith, each just looking after their own best interests. But the Knicks have a good hand here, and it's time to play it. If Melo says he's willing to sign with the Nets, so be it. We can't compete with their offer - let him live in purgatory.

Melo, our cards are down, show your hand.

I'm with u Blue...I'll go so far as to pull players off the table...

I don't know about that. Why do something that could kill your goal of landing the player you want? I think we need to finally hear Melo say to Denver that he chooses the Knicks. It's his call. If he won't sign with NJ, then that means they have to accept the deal with NY. I've always felt that it's up to Melo to make this thing happen and i'm not happy that he's strung us out like this. What's the risk for him. EVERYONE knows he wants the Knicks!!!!

Papabear Says

Maybe he don't want the Knicks. Hey Dolan should just walk away and be done with it because if Melo allows us to gut this team and he come here grinning I will dislike him as much as I did big snacks. Let's just walk away because after he comes here it won't be fun. I would feel that the Knicks got raped.

subzero0 wrote:Including Gallinari is a bad move. Amare and Carmelo are not enough to win a championship. They are enough to bring the knicks to a second round playoff exit for the next ten years.

That really depends on what else we get in the deal and what other deals DW might make. This team is far from a finished product even after the trade. There will still be moves to be made to improve the makeup of the roster, but you've got to start with at least 2 superstars. That's the usual formula for contending. The guy is right there to be had and until it's all said and done I want to see this team make a good effort to get the kid here. I can't believe he really wants to go NJ.

This is clearly a situation where New York isn't going to fleece Denver because New York doesn't have the leverage that some fans here think they do. It's not as cut-and-dry as "Melo's coming to NY anyway, so Denver gets what the Knicks want to give them" because Denver can still make Anthony pick between the money and his desired destination. The Knicks certainly can't match NJ's offer, but they're going to have to put something legit on the table to get him this year and I think they should. Personally, I come from the side of the fence that would gut it to get Melo and STAT together then worry about the rest, but that's because I think the rest will follow if Donnie Walsh is even competent as a GM, which I think he is.

Knickoftime wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm just really disappointed in Melo and his people. Why would you actively screw the team that you want to go to? Melo is killing us with his refusal to stand firm for what he wants. He has to know that Denver is using the Nets to push us to give up more than we want to give up. If he doesn't want the Nets, why even agree to talk to them? Just let them know that he wants the Knicks and get it done. He's gonna deplete whatever team he ends up going to. Whether it's the Nets or the Knicks and it's his own fault. It's unreal how selfish and shortsighted NBA players can be.

You aren't thinking this through. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction and people need to play this out through the end. They're stopping at the result they want rather than the likely one.

If Anthony gave ALL the leverage to the Knicks, then the Knicks REACTION would naturally be to offer Denver very little.

Denver's reaction might be rather than let themselves be seen as being played by 'Melo and NY, either hold-on to him, or ship him off to someone as a rental.

If the Nuggets are going to get "raped" and accept next to nothing, why limit themselves to the Knicks?

The FACTS are Denver holds his right and the CBA is uncertain. That makes them a party 'Melo and the Knicks have to satisfy to some degree.

So Anthony has to use HIS leverage to try to get both the Knicks and Denver something they both can live with. That's his best play, both to get what he wants and to not look like a villain.

He ALSO has to give himself other options in case Denver and the Knicks just won't get together, which is ultimately out of his control.

I could accept what you're saying if the Knicks hadn't already upped their offer and put forth a very good offer and much of the starting roster. Once the Knicks went that far it wasn't necessary for Melo to play both sides any more. This is his time to put his foot down and get Denver to accept the Knicks offer which is a fair offer. All the Nets do is act as a means for Denver to try to stick us up. The second he shuts them down the deal with the Knicks can be consummated.

nixluva wrote:I could accept what you're saying if the Knicks hadn't already upped their offer and put forth a very good offer and much of the starting roster. Once the Knicks went that far it wasn't necessary for Melo to play both sides any more. This is his time to put his foot down and get Denver to accept the Knicks offer which is a fair offer. All the Nets do is act as a means for Denver to try to stick us up. The second he shuts them down the deal with the Knicks can be consummated.

What is or is not a fair offer, or one Denver would ultimately sign off on is not for Anthony to decide. None of us can act as a mediator and decide for all parties what is or isn't acceptable.

Melo may be doing what he can do, which is meeting with the Nets and not signing off on the extension with them.

Again, the Knicks offer is just an offer. It can be changed. Melo makes it clear he won't go to the Nets and publicly embarrasses them before the deadline, this enables the Knicks to change their offer in their own favor.

It's in Melo's best, self interest to keep all parties honest. Either party gets all the cards and things unravel for him.

This isn't going to be resolved until Tuesday afternoon (before Denver's next game) at the earliest and probably will go to Thursday.

Games of chicken are played to the final second. That's what makes it chicken.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Bonn: Waiting to get Deron or Howard is playing with fire. There is very little chance they will come to NY. But you are entitled to your opinion.

As long as Miami has Lebron/Wade and LA has Pau/Kobe (and I could list some others too) and we're going with Amare/Melo, we're choosing a path that *from the start* has a 0% chance of working. Our top 2 would be very good players but vastly inferior to those duos. And it's not like we'd have a vastly superior supporting cast to compensate or many years to build one (given Amare's age). Note that I wasn't advocating just waiting for Deron or Howard in that other thread either. I talked a lot about the draft.

The only team that won a championship by building through the draft in the last 10 years was San Antonio and they had to get lucky enough to draft Tim Duncan. Even Tony parker is just another good PG without them getting Tim Duncan. Building through the draft is a start but you have to sign/trade for players like Shaq, Rasheed, Garnett, Pau Gasol etc.

I'm not going to start debating Lebron/Wade vs. Amare/Melo until we see them in action a few times.

Rebuilding through the draft is only one of the options I mentioned. However, you're wrong anyway. The Lakers got Kobe through the draft (by trading for him)--and trading for draft picks is one of the methods I discussed in that thread. The Heat and Celtics drafted both drafted the players who were their finals MVPs too. It's actually pretty rare for the top player on an NBA championship team to have been been acquired through any means other than the draft because championship level franchise players are almost never available via free agency or trade. If you need more time to think about whether Amare/Melo are on the same level as a Lebron/Wade combo, I don't know what to think. Lebron and Wade are outstanding two-way players. Amare and Melo will never be credited with that.

Knickoftime wrote:

subzero0 wrote:Including Gallinari is a bad move. Amare and Carmelo are not enough to win a championship. They are enough to bring the knicks to a second round playoff exit for the next ten years.

So Stoudemire and Gallinari is?

Stoudemire, + Gallinari at way less than max money, plus the assets from keeping AR (whether it is AR or the pick) + resigning Wilson at a less than max contract is a much stronger position than putting all your eggs in Stoudemire and Melo at max contracts that are more than what LBJ and Wade are making.

knickstorrents wrote:Stoudemire, + Gallinari at way less than max money, plus the assets from keeping AR (whether it is AR or the pick) + resigning Wilson at a less than max contract is a much stronger position than putting all your eggs in Stoudemire and Melo at max contracts that are more than what LBJ and Wade are making.

Well, first of all, what James and Wade are making is completely irrelevant. No one expected what they did to redefine the market.

Secondly, the cap money is also pretty irrelevant. By the start of the 2012 season, Gallinari and Chandler will be making more in the neighborhood of max money combined. This is not a question of Gallinari + Chandler AND more cap room.

This is a question of whether if you think in pursuit of being the best team the Knicks can be, if Gallo + Chandler is greater the Melo and whomever is given the minutes in the wake of two players leaving, including the intangibles and effect on other players.

BRIGGS wrote:You will like this deal even if we give up mosgov fields randolph chandler and gallo and felton

It's irrelevant if I did. I'm interested in the Knicks, not Knicks fandom, but for the record, and I'll be very clear, I wouldn't.

Billups vs Felton is advantage Knicks. He's a better player at this moment and will be for another year, after which the equation no longer matters because neither is the the Knicks long-term PG.

I also think Billups is the greater trade asset a year from now.

So with that factored in, I think Chandler, either one of Gallinari or Fields, and what will likely be a weak-ish first for Anthony is equitable.

Adding a 4th or 5th player I don't endorse.

But again, all this is entirely beside any point that should be of interest to either of us.

Billups, Amar'e, Melo, Gallo and Turiaf or Barron would be the likely lineup if Dolan sold the farm for Melo. It would hurt, but in the end the most important players any team has are the stars. You start there and look to fill in around them. The Knicks would be able to fill in the other spots. This is an extreme position, but I feel that when it comes to building a team you have to have that foundation, which is the STARS on your team. That's the part that makes everything else go. However, I'm hoping that we only send Chan, Gallo, Felton and not the new package the Nuggets asked for. We'll see.