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THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THESE INSANE RUMORS START UP: KG 2 NY!!!
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djsunyc
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11/22/2005  4:09 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

What about AI?

AI's older than KG. He's logged what FEELS like just as many minutes. You guys telling me, hypothetically, you wouldn't give up Frye for a player of Iverson's caliber (forget Marbury for a second).

What about Shaq?

Nash?

Camby?

Ray Allen?


These are all "past their prime" players still putting up impressive numbers. And guess what -- KG is putting up better numbers than ANY of them.

For any of you to have the audacity to assume Frye will become something special is beyond me.

Special? How....special exactly? KG special? Ewing special?

How about Rasheed Wallace special? Maybe not even? Tayshaun Prince special?

Truth is -- he doesn't have the talent to become anything close to a KG. His work ethic will allow him to improve if he hits his stride, but exactly how good are you expecting him to become?

He's not even a dominant-type player. His stats come as assists from Marbury. He hasn't shown an aptitude for creating for himself yet. That's the difference b/w role players and stars -- being able to create for yourself. His post game is limited.

Call me when he starts doing crossover, pull-up jumpers like KG.


SHUT DOWN.

again bobs, this isn't a definite no-brainer like you think it is.
there's history with this franchise about giving up youth and picks for players that are win now. KG is awesome, and it's very sexy to think of KG and steph in MSG going for it all. and it would make us a legitimate threat right away. but you can't discount the other argument that what if we don't win...then WTF do we do from 2008-2015?

i think a no-brainer is if we don't have to part with frye and/or curry. but once one of those are brought up, you have to think about it. is it b/c they'll be as good as kg? nope. but it's a shift in direction of this team's philosphy - one that's been called for since 2001. IF IF IF kg gets hurt (just like anybody else can) - we're cooked since we have NO WAY of restocking young players.

there's two sides to this and both are very viable. it has more to do with philosophical issues as opposed to the player that frye can become.

i wouldn't be surprised if KG is a knick come february but i wouldn't be surprised if someone like francis or steph joined him in minny either.
AUTOADVERT
bobs3304
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11/22/2005  4:11 PM
Posted by PhilinLA:

Baskets = 2 or 3 points, whether you cross over, or don't.


The point was to show KG's wide-spanning versatility, which Frye will never have.

It's not in his athletic gene pool to be able to play Point Forward at 6-11.

Obviously, KG can.

Wanna know the 3 best players in the league?

Shaq, Duncan, KG


That's called close the book, end of story.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
PhilinLA
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11/22/2005  4:13 PM
The point is not that we shouldn't try to get KG, it's that in a salary dump, you don't give up guys like Frye and Curry. You give up expiring deals and take back Wally's.

Anyone remember what happened when we signed defensive minded Marvin Webster to play alongside emerging rookie power forward Lonnie Shelton?
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
bobs3304
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11/22/2005  4:14 PM
Posted by djsunyc:


i think a no-brainer is if we don't have to part with frye and/or curry.

Seeing your point. Parting with Frye would hurt, but I'd only flinch for a second.

IF IF IF kg gets hurt (just like anybody else can) - we're cooked since we have NO WAY of restocking young players.


Sorry, but that's the risk you take when you bring in Top 3 Talent.

Shaq anyone?
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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11/22/2005  4:16 PM
Posted by PhilinLA:

The point is not that we shouldn't try to get KG, it's that in a salary dump, you don't give up guys like Frye and Curry. You give up expiring deals and take back Wally's.


Lemme ask you something -

What do you think Mchale will demand in any trade?

Either a bunch of talent that comes close to equalling KG's market value(difficult, but possible).

Or expirings + Fut. # 1's...

Well, we don't have any # 1's to give up. But we do have the equivalent of lottery choices in Ariza, Butler, Frye, Lee, and Nate.

I can guarantee we'll have to give up ATLEAST 1...if it's not Frye -- GREAT! But again, if Frye alone is the holdup in negotiations, wow...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-22-2005 4:17 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
efw
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11/22/2005  4:18 PM
bobs,

the real issue here is that you don't want to trade what you have until you know what it is - especially for an aging superstar.

When Miami traded for Shaq, they included Odom and Butler because they knew what they had. They didn't know what kind of star Wade would turn out to be but they had seen enough to know that they couldn't take that chance.

If LA said they wouldn't trade Shaq without Wade in the deal, would you have included him? If so, then that is why you would be a bad GM.

A perfect example of this is our very own villain, Layden. He traded Camby plus our draft pick Nene, for an aging star with bad knees. We thought we knew what we head in Camby but, really we had no idea. Who ever thought Marcus Camby would someday be competing for league MVP?

The moral is: don't be blinded by the fancy stats, name, money, etc. Frye is worth holding on to because none of us quite knows if he will be good or great. Great teams are built on taking chances, trusting in young talent, not superstars.

Example 1 -NY Yankees.
bobs3304
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11/22/2005  4:21 PM
^ Again...I can respect Frye's potential.

BUT......

if he alone is the holdup, then that's stupid. Giving up expirings doesn't matter, we'll never be under the cap for the next 4 years ANYWAY, and that's how long KG's contract runs.

Frye is and will never be a KG.

That's not an assumption. That's a fact.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
PhilinLA
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11/22/2005  4:26 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by PhilinLA:

Baskets = 2 or 3 points, whether you cross over, or don't.


The point was to show KG's wide-spanning versatility, which Frye will never have.

It's not in his athletic gene pool to be able to play Point Forward at 6-11.

Obviously, KG can.

Wanna know the 3 best players in the league?

Shaq, Duncan, KG


That's called close the book, end of story.

What is the marginal utility of having one of those players over a 22 year old 6'11" who's scoring and rebounding, seeing the floor and playing D at a rookie cap number? He is going to get MOST of their numbers given equal minutes, but not cost in terms of cap and opportunity anywhere near as much.

This is about being smart, so when a team mysteriously wants to dump 1 of the top 3 (the only one who has remained puzzlingly ringless over his ten or so seasons), you don't offer them talent offset. It will always be about money and cap room, so you offer them that.


http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
djsunyc
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11/22/2005  4:30 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Sorry, but that's the risk you take when you bring in Top 3 Talent.

Shaq anyone?

it is...but miami does have wade so there's a fallback plan but you kinda saw what happened tho. shaq broke down (as did wade) and they got bounced from the ECF (nothing to sneeze at) BUT they didn't win it all. will they do it this year? who knows but as the days go by, so does shaq's ability to play night in and night out. so they may be perennial playoff contenders but once shaq falls off (probably in 2 years), it's up to wade to carry jwill, toine, and haslem on his back to 40 win seasons. and shaq is the MOST dominating player ever.

it's all good tho - you want KG cool. i'd have to think for a while if it would cost me frye and/or curry. not saying i wouldn't do it, but i don't know if the flinch period would be a second.
bobs3304
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11/22/2005  4:30 PM
Again Phil, maybe youre not getting the point.

I would do everything in my power to keep Frye, but if he becomes a dealbreaker, you give him up to get arguably 1 of the most complete players OF ALL TIME.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
efw
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11/22/2005  4:35 PM
I never said Frye was going to be KG (although your statement is, by definition, an assumption).

The question is whether it is wiser to have a player like Frye for the next 10-12 years on your team or a player like KG for 3-4. The point is not to blow your wad on one player but to design a team that is strong in the present and the future. That is the most important reason for holding onto Frye. Not that he will someday become KG.

In my opinion, after weighing the consequences of both choices, I prefer to say no to a trade for KG that includes Frye.

Now, don't get me wrong, like you said, if Frye or Curry are not included, Minnesota can have their choice of anyone else on the roster.
PhilinLA
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11/22/2005  4:36 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Again Phil, maybe youre not getting the point.

I would do everything in my power to keep Frye, but if he becomes a dealbreaker, you give him up to get arguably 1 of the most complete players OF ALL TIME.
My point is, if it gets to that point, you just don't make the deal.

But, if we're smart, it won't get to that point. Note how the heat held onto Wade.

It helps us that KG might actually be pushing for this.


http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
bobs3304
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11/22/2005  4:39 PM
Agreed. If Isiah is savvy enough, he'll hold onto Frye.

But I don't see Frye having Wade's "star" potential.

He doesn't have a "dominant" game like Wade did/does.


DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nyk4ever
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11/22/2005  4:39 PM
I think we can all agree on one thing. Let's hope it comes down Antonio/Penny and a few future picks.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
gunsnewing
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11/22/2005  4:40 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Yes, if Isiah can avoid dealing Frye that would be great.

I'm all for keeping Frye.


BUT.....if Frye becomes a dealbreaker for the Wolves, you take the plunge no matter HOW good you think this kid can become.

B/c forever how old KG is, and however "poor" his knees are, and however past his prime he is, he's still putting up the league's best numbers and still is an MVP threat until his contract ends.

Like it's been noted, Ewing had good years b/w 30 and 34. And his knees were shot long before that.


Exactly Ewing averaged 22/11rebs/2.5blks at 36 and on cranky knees! Garnett is 29 with much better Knees at this point!
bobs3304
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11/22/2005  4:45 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I think we can all agree on one thing. Let's hope it comes down Antonio/Penny and a few future picks.

That's the point my man.

We don't HAVE any "future picks" to trade...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-22-2005 4:45 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Nalod
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11/22/2005  4:45 PM
No doubt KG is a great talent. But he has to be part of a great team effort. By that, is he like Marbs in that he is a talent vacume that does ont blend well with others? Could he coexist with Marbs in reality?

POrtland a few years ago had a impressive list of talented players that failed to become a team, the Lakers imploded under "Top shelf" names and miami faces this challange this year.

Larry proved you can win without superstars and having a tandam of Marbs and Garnett is suspsect in my opinion.

Thats not to say I would not pull the trigger on it, but it would have to be the right deal. Even if its expensive!
PhilinLA
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11/22/2005  4:47 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Agreed. If Isiah is savvy enough, he'll hold onto Frye.

But I don't see Frye having Wade's "star" potential.

He doesn't have a "dominant" game like Wade did/does.
The concept of "star" potential is kind of nebulous. He's gonna be a 20+ per game guy with boards, blocks, vision and defense. And he can do this playing Larry's "way." He's gonna be a core part of anything Larry gets done here. And doing what he will in NYC will for all intents and purposes brand him a "star."

Now, as the "buyer" in any deal like this, you have no power unless you're willing to say, "no." Like the Heat did over Wade, or the Yankees did over various players the first 7 times they tried to get Randy Johnson.

You have to have your "no" list, and Frye has to be on it.

http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
gunsnewing
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11/22/2005  4:47 PM
[/quote]


Sorry, but that's the risk you take when you bring in Top 3 Talent.

Shaq anyone?

[/quote]

Exactly!! what if Frye gets injured. What if Curry has to retire. You want to be a mediocre 30something win team forever and never landing a savior?! We don't even have a pick this year and MArbury and Brown are not getting any younger! And we're not getting equal value back for Marbury if we trade him!
bobs3304
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11/22/2005  4:48 PM
Nalod, KG is one of the most unselfish stars in the league...

He's the consummate teammate and team leader...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-22-2005 4:49 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THESE INSANE RUMORS START UP: KG 2 NY!!!
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