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OT--USA military shouldve helped get the people out of nO BEFORE the fact
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Rich
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9/7/2005  1:18 PM


President George W. Bush is handed a map by Deputy Chief of Staff Joe Hagin, center, during a video teleconference with federal and state emergency management organizations on Hurricane Katrina from his Crawford, Texas ranch on Sunday August 28, 2005. White House photo by Paul Morse
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Knight
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9/7/2005  1:44 PM
Thanks Rich, it's nice to know the President was in contact with federal and state emergency officials from the outset. I think time will show that the President was given confidence that sufficient relief efforts were prepared--then when things didn't get done he stepped right in and rectified the situation. I would compare it to a situation in war, in which the President has confidence in the top Army commanders to come up with a specific strategy for a battle--you put people in charge who you believe can do the job--but as soon as they demonstrate incompetence, as soon as you start losing the battle, you have to step in. But you can't expect the President to be the top Army specialist, or disaster relief specialist, or CIA intelligence specialist--but somehow he is ultimately responsible for the outcome or at least how he responds to it.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
nyvector16
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9/7/2005  2:24 PM
How about the fact the he hired the FEMA Director.
A man with does not have the experience to even hold the assistant's post much less the Director.
A man who's second entry to his resume reads like this
"used to manage the Saudi Race Horse Association"
He basically got in there not on his talents or expertise.. but in a scratch your back now give me a Good job type of situation.

According to you.. Bush has no blame in anything... he's squeaky clean...
That is jsut Flat wrong... no matter how you spin it.
oohah
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9/7/2005  2:29 PM
But you can't expect the President to be the top Army specialist, or disaster relief specialist, or CIA intelligence specialist--but somehow he is ultimately responsible for the outcome or at least how he responds to it.

Are you saying Bush is responsible or not? In any case, I'd like to know what he is responsible for, and what he is a 'specialist' in (Passing the buck?).

I asked you in the other thread that got locked, did you ultimately vote for Bush because he ran on 'Homeland Security" or for another reason?

I am glad that help has finally arrived in NO. I guess the people trapped in the city smartened up and finally 'learned how to act'. I just wish 'those people' had 'learned how to act' about 5 days earlier.

On the subject of O'reilly/Moore, I'll begin by saying I don't like either of them. Both are smug and pompous.

O'reilly is worse in my book, because he claims to engage in 'No Spin', but he kisses the ass of the right, and specifically the Bush administration. (And yes, I have seen his show plenty.) He is also a bold-faced liar. He was all over Clinton for cheating, then he ends being busted trying to cheat. He said Michael Jackson must be guilty because he paid off his legal problems, then O'reilly turns around and does the same thing, except he doesn't even use his own money for the most part!(O'reilly declared on air that all allegations were 100% percent untrue and he would fight to the end even if it cost him his career....HYPOCRITE.)

Moore is a Beeyotch and a Wuss, but at least he is honest about what he is doing... I have heard him state: "I am not objective. I have a point of view and I use the facts to express my point of view." As far as the contrast of Iraq Moore painted in F911, I think his point was that you could actually walk the streets without being shot or bombed at random. To bring up the mass graves, and horrible oppression of Iraq is another point entirely, to which I would ask this question: Why isn't Bush mobilizing troops to all of the other countries where people are being harshly oppressed? The answer is: Those other countries don't have O-I-L.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 09-07-2005 2:32 PM]

[Edited by - oohah on 09-07-2005 2:35 PM]

[Edited by - oohah on 09-07-2005 2:43 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Silverfuel
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9/7/2005  2:33 PM
Posted by oohah:

He is also a bold-faced liar. He was all over Clinton for cheating, then he ends being busted trying to cheat. He said Michael Jackson must be guilty because he paid off his legal problems, then O'reilly turns around and does the same thing, except he doesn't even use his own money for the most part!(O'reilly declared on air that all allegations were 100% percent untrue and he would fight to the end even if it cost him his career....HYPOCRITE.)
good points. I had forgotten about that.


A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
TheloniusMonk
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9/7/2005  2:38 PM
Posted by Knight:

Thanks Rich, it's nice to know the President was in contact with federal and state emergency officials from the outset. I think time will show that the President was given confidence that sufficient relief efforts were prepared--then when things didn't get done he stepped right in and rectified the situation. I would compare it to a situation in war, in which the President has confidence in the top Army commanders to come up with a specific strategy for a battle--you put people in charge who you believe can do the job--but as soon as they demonstrate incompetence, as soon as you start losing the battle, you have to step in. But you can't expect the President to be the top Army specialist, or disaster relief specialist, or CIA intelligence specialist--but somehow he is ultimately responsible for the outcome or at least how he responds to it.

Speaking of appointed people who the president thought had the intelligence to do the job.......did you know that the president of FEMA (that Bush appointed) was the head of an equestrian park? That's his expereince before being appointed. He was also Bush's college roomate. Nice appointee.


'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
TheloniusMonk
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9/7/2005  2:40 PM
Posted by nyvector16:

How about the fact the he hired the FEMA Director.
A man with does not have the experience to even hold the assistant's post much less the Director.
A man who's second entry to his resume reads like this
"used to manage the Saudi Race Horse Association"
He basically got in there not on his talents or expertise.. but in a scratch your back now give me a Good job type of situation.

According to you.. Bush has no blame in anything... he's squeaky clean...
That is jsut Flat wrong... no matter how you spin it.

Oh my bad NYVector lol. You beat me to it.

What a president. How could you put people in place who aren't qualified to begin with and then be so confident that they have everything under control that you stay on vacation until Wednesday? Don't forget this is the BIGGEST NATURAL DISASTER IN U.S. HISTORY! Unreal.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
fishmike
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9/7/2005  3:05 PM
I just hope this is the stuff that dictates how people vote, and not things like gay marriage, stem cells or whether or not its ok to say GOD in the pledge of allegiance. Red states. Vote repub... thats fine. But this guy is a travesty.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TheloniusMonk
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9/7/2005  3:11 PM
Posted by Knight:

Thanks Rich, it's nice to know the President was in contact with federal and state emergency officials from the outset. I think time will show that the President was given confidence that sufficient relief efforts were prepared--then when things didn't get done he stepped right in and rectified the situation. I would compare it to a situation in war, in which the President has confidence in the top Army commanders to come up with a specific strategy for a battle--you put people in charge who you believe can do the job--but as soon as they demonstrate incompetence, as soon as you start losing the battle, you have to step in. But you can't expect the President to be the top Army specialist, or disaster relief specialist, or CIA intelligence specialist--but somehow he is ultimately responsible for the outcome or at least how he responds to it.

All that shows is that the president was briefed on things WAY before things were acted upon. All that shows is how much he dropped the ball after that moment.


'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
nyvector16
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9/7/2005  3:11 PM
Good addition Monk... I honestly didn't know he was actually his college roomate.. Unbelievable... really.

Although there is plenty of blame to go around... How can any reasonable person not accept the fact that there were failures in this administration that made the whole Mess down there worse.

- Ordered Army Corp of Engineers to stop researching the structural integrity of those levees for the pupose of making them 80% stronger.

- Cut funding for the maintenance of those levees

- Appointed his College Buddy with zero to no experience in Crisis Management

- Has a complete disregard for the environment and Global warming.
(Warm water is the fuel for hurricanes, Gulf of Mexico Water is the warmest on Record)
oohah
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9/7/2005  3:12 PM
I just hope this is the stuff that dictates how people vote, and not things like gay marriage, stem cells or whether or not its ok to say GOD in the pledge of allegiance. Red states. Vote repub... thats fine. But this guy is a travesty.

Unfortunately it has been proven with the last election that it doesn't affect the vote as much as it should. There was already ample evidence theat Bush should not be reelected. Why would things change after this term? It is all about sensationalizing the year of the election. Luckily he can't run again, and at least Jeb isn't a moron.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
tkf
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9/7/2005  3:16 PM
Posted by martin:

tkf, what other political talk shows do you listen to? Surely if you wanted to take a fair and balanced look at talk show hosts/journalists you would take a sampling and compare, right?


I used to listen to neil Bortz, but I stopped a long time ago, wasn't a fan of his politics, I am not really into politics, that is why I like O'rielly, he deals with issues, everyday issues, oil prices, war, corrupt judges asd he address the issues, uses fact and when he does offer a solution he does so after reviewing the facts. I admit I don't listen to a lot of other journalist on the radio, they usually slant things so much, a lot of them remind me of michael moore. They ignore the other side completely, they twist and they don't inform....

again that isj ust my take... I don't listen to much else except for bill O. But I already highlighted my reasons why..


Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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9/7/2005  3:22 PM
Posted by oohah:
But you can't expect the President to be the top Army specialist, or disaster relief specialist, or CIA intelligence specialist--but somehow he is ultimately responsible for the outcome or at least how he responds to it.

Are you saying Bush is responsible or not? In any case, I'd like to know what he is responsible for, and what he is a 'specialist' in (Passing the buck?).

I asked you in the other thread that got locked, did you ultimately vote for Bush because he ran on 'Homeland Security" or for another reason?

I am glad that help has finally arrived in NO. I guess the people trapped in the city smartened up and finally 'learned how to act'. I just wish 'those people' had 'learned how to act' about 5 days earlier.

On the subject of O'reilly/Moore, I'll begin by saying I don't like either of them. Both are smug and pompous.

O'reilly is worse in my book, because he claims to engage in 'No Spin', but he kisses the ass of the right, and specifically the Bush administration. (And yes, I have seen his show plenty.) He is also a bold-faced liar. He was all over Clinton for cheating, then he ends being busted trying to cheat. He said Michael Jackson must be guilty because he paid off his legal problems, then O'reilly turns around and does the same thing, except he doesn't even use his own money for the most part!(O'reilly declared on air that all allegations were 100% percent untrue and he would fight to the end even if it cost him his career....HYPOCRITE.)

Moore is a Beeyotch and a Wuss, but at least he is honest about what he is doing... I have heard him state: "I am not objective. I have a point of view and I use the facts to express my point of view." As far as the contrast of Iraq Moore painted in F911, I think his point was that you could actually walk the streets without being shot or bombed at random. To bring up the mass graves, and horrible oppression of Iraq is another point entirely, to which I would ask this question: Why isn't Bush mobilizing troops to all of the other countries where people are being harshly oppressed? The answer is: Those other countries don't have O-I-L.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 09-07-2005 2:32 PM]

[Edited by - oohah on 09-07-2005 2:35 PM]

[Edited by - oohah on 09-07-2005 2:43 PM]



this is the very thing that O'reilly talks about. Can you point out in specific where O'reilly lied and as far as the Micheal Jackson thing, you completely took that out of context, he also addressed that and even put the transcript on line one time, he said he felt MJ was guilty, and that paying people off over and over again doesn't help his case, which I agree,O'reilly paid off a girl which he said was trying to extort him, if he had done this 3 times or so, yea, I would call what he said hypocritical.. But come on man..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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9/7/2005  3:26 PM
Posted by Knight:

Thanks Rich, it's nice to know the President was in contact with federal and state emergency officials from the outset. I think time will show that the President was given confidence that sufficient relief efforts were prepared--then when things didn't get done he stepped right in and rectified the situation. I would compare it to a situation in war, in which the President has confidence in the top Army commanders to come up with a specific strategy for a battle--you put people in charge who you believe can do the job--but as soon as they demonstrate incompetence, as soon as you start losing the battle, you have to step in. But you can't expect the President to be the top Army specialist, or disaster relief specialist, or CIA intelligence specialist--but somehow he is ultimately responsible for the outcome or at least how he responds to it.



excellent post, I agree, but for some reason we had all these rappers and entertainers wanting to make this a racial issue and the fault of bush. I want to start with the Gov Blanco, mayor nagin and bush was at fault for reacting 24 hours too late... Again, nagin denied a request to buy boats for the police dept, the gov of LA didn't react quick enough, where was the Lousianna national guard?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
martin
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9/7/2005  3:28 PM
Posted by tkf:

where was the Lousianna national guard?

Iraq?

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tkf
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9/7/2005  3:29 PM
Posted by oohah:
But you can't expect the President to be the top Army specialist, or disaster relief specialist, or CIA intelligence specialist--but somehow he is ultimately responsible for the outcome or at least how he responds to it.

Why isn't Bush mobilizing troops to all of the other countries where people are being harshly oppressed? The answer is: Those other countries don't have O-I-L.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 09-07-2005 2:32 PM]

[Edited by - oohah on 09-07-2005 2:35 PM]

[Edited by - oohah on 09-07-2005 2:43 PM]


neither do those other countries harbor and support terrorist, and yes there are facts that Iraq were enabling terrorists.....

So it is OK for someone to say they are intending to mislead you and twist the truth to fit their story, as long as they tell you up front?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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9/7/2005  3:30 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by tkf:

where was the Lousianna national guard?

Iraq?

all of them? I don't thinks so....


Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
nyvector16
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9/7/2005  3:31 PM
If the thing with O'Reilly was his housekeeper, Gardener, or some other Service professional I would give you the benefit of the doubt TKF..
But the fact is it was the PRODUCER of his show who made those allegations.. I think she was not only credible... but dangerous for Fox. She was paid off quick... To be quite and have the whole thing swept under the table.
fishmike
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9/7/2005  3:40 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by martin:
Posted by tkf:

where was the Lousianna national guard?
Iraq?
all of them? I don't thinks so....
how many does it take for them to be ineffective? Why are ANY there at all? GW didnt go during NAM and we had a bloddy draft then. Can someone explain that to me?

I have 2 friends in the NG. 12 hours after Floyde trashed Fla they were flown down for security and stayed for labor. They worked so hard they had a parade and were "hurricane Floyd heros." Now they are shooting Arabs in you know where.

When he was elected I asked my wife just how much damage could he actually do? How bad could his policies actually make things?

Guess we are finding out
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Silverfuel
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9/7/2005  3:51 PM
Posted by tkf:

neither do those other countries harbor and support terrorist, and yes there are facts that Iraq were enabling terrorists.....
Why is it just Iraq that got invaded then? It didnt have much to do with harboring terrorists. If it did, why are Pakistan and Saudi Arabia never even warned much less invaded? (some 9/11 hijackers were from those countries. London bombers were of the pakistani descent) They do a lot more for terrorists than any other country in the world.

It has been proven that Saudi Arabia's royal family and their rich Sheikh oil tycoons sponsor terrorism, not just in the Middle East, but everwhere in the world. Pakistan's intelligence agency gives safe refugee to terrorists. Pakistan's army general is the President (basically a dictator) of the country and they have openly announced their nuclear capabilites. Why are they allies when their country is on the brink of a bloody civil war? What will happen when the radical sunni's cleric who HATE the United States come into power? I dont think we care. They dont have any oil.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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OT--USA military shouldve helped get the people out of nO BEFORE the fact
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