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Idiots who liked the Mo Taylor trade manup!
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djsunyc
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1/13/2006  11:35 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I do agree with all that but inflating Sweetney's minutes would have had a cost. Nazy and Kurt would have gotten fewer minutes and we probably wouldn't have gotten three late first round picks for them (combined).

I would prefer to have Vin and Moochie's expiring contracts (and the 2nd rd pick) right now over Mo even though Mo is a solid player but I don't view the trade as a disaster.
I never said the trade was a disaster. Just dumb. Bottom line is Mo is 15 minute a night role player with $18mm left on his deal. Thats not the kind of roster flexibility I was hoping for. The fact that Mo is playing well has no bearing on my opinion of the deal. I'm glad he's playing well. I have stated my case 1000 times. It doesnt have to be cap space, but working towards a younger more flexible roster is a legit goal.
Jerome James is a disaster.
MO is averaging 11.5 from the bucks game on.He was worth what he was traded for which was trash and a 2nd round pick. He is not worth his contract but it is really no big deal he is overpaid by a few million.

it's not what he's doing for us now that's the issue. for me, the issue was about losing flexibility this summer for a guy that didn't help during the 2nd half of last year when the season was over already. it's always a flexibility thing and never waiting to get a better deal. that's really my knock against isiah. he just doesn't wait things out and jumps the gun. and look at the only true time he was patient and waited things out...he got larry brown. i'm convinced that we could've had eddy curry for sweetney + nazr this summer without giving up any # 1's. i'm convinced we could've received much more for kurt instead of jumping at the first deal offered.

but getting back to mo, it was the philosphy of the deal at the time it was made...giving up expiring contracts that could've been used this past summer AND a #2 pick while saving houston $10 mil and a player that wasn't even on the active roster. IF we wanted mo so badly, and IF houston was willing to move him so easily, you think that maybe if we waited till the summer, we could've gotten him anyway? all combined with the fact that i wanted to see sweetney get increased minutes and opportunities after the season was over in january made me hate the trade so much. i still dislike the trade even tho mo is playing well for us and is serving a role. but it's definitely more palatable now...
AUTOADVERT
nyk4ever
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1/13/2006  11:43 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Where were you Mo T haters when he was scoring points in the 4th quarter and leading us to a few victories? Get over it, he was added to the team to be a future trade piece or he will be bought out and won't be on the team past next year. He was brought in a as INSURANCE POLICY in case we don't get anyone in the draft or aren't able to make a trade. Vin Baker and Moochie Norris suck and Mo T's contract is NOTHING TO THE KNICKS. Get over it, geez. Yeah I know I'll get flamed for this but I've had this SAME opinion since the day we got him.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 03/20/2005 15:49:20]

I was filled with so much pep that day

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Marv
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1/13/2006  11:43 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm convinced that we could've had eddy curry for sweetney + nazr this summer without giving up any # 1's. i'm convinced we could've received much more for kurt instead of jumping at the first deal offered.

Maybe on both counts. But there's another side to both of these - these deals landed us 2 current starters who are playing great, can be reasonably expected to get a lot better yet, and are under rookie contracts to us for the next several years. Plus another #1 coming this year.
fishmike
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1/13/2006  11:52 AM
but it's definitely more palatable now...
exactly
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Allanfan20
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1/13/2006  12:28 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I do agree with all that but inflating Sweetney's minutes would have had a cost. Nazy and Kurt would have gotten fewer minutes and we probably wouldn't have gotten three late first round picks for them (combined).

I would prefer to have Vin and Moochie's expiring contracts (and the 2nd rd pick) right now over Mo even though Mo is a solid player but I don't view the trade as a disaster.


Bonn, Nazr was part of the Rose deal, not the Mo T deal. Most of us agreed that the Nazr for 2 Spurs firsts and Rose was pretty decent at least. But the Mo T deal was thoughtless as we DIDN'T put any thought into it. Yes, Mo T is working hard now and looking good, but hey, it's about time. At the time, that trade did nothing to help us, whatsoever. It was dumb plain and simple only to be outmatched by the Jerome James signing months later.

The point is, no matter what, Nazr was gone so you weren't going to take away minutes from him to "Up" his trade value. And he surely wasn't going to take minutes away from KT. He was locked in for his 35 a night no matter what. So what was the point then? Just so we could score a couple of extra points and still lose? Mo T didn't help our team in anyway last season. If I had the chance to do it all over again, I'd not let that trade happen, even if he's playing well.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
boomann
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1/13/2006  12:57 PM
The point is, no matter what, Nazr was gone so you weren't going to take away minutes from him to "Up" his trade value. And he surely wasn't going to take minutes away from KT. He was locked in for his 35 a night no matter what. So what was the point then? Just so we could score a couple of extra points and still lose? Mo T didn't help our team in anyway last season. If I had the chance to do it all over again, I'd not let that trade happen, even if he's playing well.

So let me get this right instead of having MO T and Jackie Butler you would rather have Vin and Moochie. How could you not do this trade? Trading Vin opened up a spot for a good prospect in Jackie and we have Mo T who is not taking no isht off of anybody this year. Vin's not in the league and the Rockets have signed John Lucas to take Moochie's minutes. You would rather have these two unproductive players instead of a player who is helping and one that might help in the future just becuase you want expiring contracts. That's krazy!

[Edited by - boomann on 01-13-2006 12:57 PM]

[Edited by - boomann on 01-13-2006 12:58 PM]
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
Bonn1997
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1/13/2006  12:59 PM
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point; my point was that playing Sweetney more minutes throughout last season would have given fewer minutes to Nazy and Kurt and decreased their trade values (probably to a point where we don't get 3 late first round picks in Kurt's and Nazy's deals). It might have still been a worthwhile tradeoff, but you can't pretend that we'd have more picks now if Sweetney had played more minutes last year. We might not have given up as much in the Curry trade but we might not have gotten as much in the Kurt and Nazy trades also.
Ira
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1/13/2006  1:13 PM
I think Mo T's going to be traded - either this season or next - to a playoff team that needs an inside scorer. When that happens we should get more than a 2nd round pick and two useless players.
Allanfan20
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1/13/2006  1:59 PM
So let me get this right instead of having MO T and Jackie Butler you would rather have Vin and Moochie.

I enjoy when people put words in my mouth. It's a high quality characteristic. I didn't say I would RATHER have Moochie and Vin. I said I wouldn't have made that trade, for the sake of letting Sweetney continue to develop and just maybe later on, we could have either let them burn or gotton something better in a trade, out of those 2 guys. Like I said, I am happy about how Mo T is playing now. But I think we could have done ourselves better by waiting a bit longer. Also, Jackie Butler has nothing to do with this conversation. He wasn't involved in the Mo T trade, nor the Rose deal for that matter. Don't put words in my mouth.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
boomann
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1/13/2006  2:15 PM
I enjoy when people put words in my mouth. It's a high quality characteristic. I didn't say I would RATHER have Moochie and Vin. I said I wouldn't have made that trade, for the sake of letting Sweetney continue to develop and just maybe later on, we could have either let them burn or gotton something better in a trade, out of those 2 guys. Like I said, I am happy about how Mo T is playing now. But I think we could have done ourselves better by waiting a bit longer. Also, Jackie Butler has nothing to do with this conversation. He wasn't involved in the Mo T trade, nor the Rose deal for that matter. Don't put words in my mouth.

Au contraire with the movement of both Vin and Moochie Isiah was able to sign Jackie Butler because of the simple fact there was a roster spot open. I quoted what you said and responded to that one sentence and that is what you said.

[Edited by - boomann on 01-13-2006 2:28 PM]
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
Bonn1997
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1/13/2006  2:25 PM
Not entirely accurate. We had two roster spots: One for Jackie and one for Jermaine Jackson. Isiah could have kept Vin and Moochie, signed Butler, and disregarded Jermaine. Or he might have gone for Jermaine and not had a roster spot for Jackie. We don't know how it would have worked out.
Allanfan20
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1/13/2006  2:31 PM
Big whop, if that was truely an issue, than all Isiah could have done was waived Bruno.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
EnySpree
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1/13/2006  2:34 PM
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boomann
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1/13/2006  2:37 PM
You guys are really technical and hypothetical on this board. It's a lot of what if talk going on that is not really reality based. I'll just say this Mo T is turning out better then many of you expected and I believe he'll continue to shine under LB's system. I liked the trade then and I like it even better now. Peace out

[Edited by - boomann on 01-13-2006 2:38 PM]
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/13/2006  2:53 PM
Mo T is doing the damn thing. Those who hated on him have to give up props, because he exceeded even my somewhat optimistic expectations of what he'd bring to the team so far.

Mo's been shedding blood for this team, and has the battle scars to prove it. He's earning his place on this squad.

Those who hated on the Mo T trade Man UP!
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Killa4luv
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1/13/2006  3:56 PM
We have an enforcer! And his name is MO T!!
Ira
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1/13/2006  4:05 PM
I was against drafting Frye and I was wrong. Why is it so hard to admit that the Mo T trade was a good one? A 2nd round pick for a good back-up who comes to play - how can that be anything but good?
SlimPack
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1/13/2006  4:08 PM
mo t had a bad game recently, he needs to do it more consistently. but I do like what Ive seen from him, I never hated the mo taylor trade becuase it was just moochie, baker and 2nd round pick, its not like we gave up the farm or anything.
Ira
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1/13/2006  4:26 PM
Posted by SlimPack:

its not like we gave up the farm or anything.

Right - it's not like we gave up anything.
rvhoss
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1/14/2006  5:47 AM
the thing that makes this thread so interesting is because at the time sim was the hater..spewing venom at the moT trade, while others were glass half full lauding it.

The key is the title...IDIOTS man up...not a poll, article or opinion post.

it was an attack post blowing up in his (and his supporters at the times) faces.

fish, knight, mck1...take note before you follow isle blindly.
all kool aid all the time.
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Idiots who liked the Mo Taylor trade manup!
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