DLeethal wrote:It’s a shame because we are getting heroics from Brunson averaging 40, major production from KAT on offense, Mikal went off last night, Deuce and Mitch have been awesome. And we’re down 0 ****ing 2. In many ways our guys are playing better than they did in rounds 1 and 2. To me it’s 10000% on the one lineup digging holes we can’t get out of anymore. Somehow we got out of them in the first 2 rounds. You eliminate that lineup and every other combo is beating the crap out of Indiana.

We can't win this series if only 4 guys play well. We need almost all 8 to give us something. OG, Hart, Payne and KAT (on defense) were not good enough.

Knicksfan wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:KAT puts up an efficient 20 & 10 but it really makes you realize how much defense matters. Because Mitch has been more impactful these playoffs.

I was dead wrong about how fine we'd be without Ihart.

I think if you can trade KAT and one of Mikal/OG for Giannis you gotta do it.

I dont love the starpuch route, but this might be a way to go if its even possible. KAT has been as good as possible on offense, but really disappointing on defense and basketball IQ. Mikal/OG are good, but too much of a question mark to be untradeable assets.

its not even star searching, its trying to replace KAT with a defender. Doesn't have to be Giannis but I think we gotta look to move him this summer before its too late.

nycericanguy wrote:KAT is the real issue in the starting 5, its just harder and harder to have a 5 that cant defend, teams will constantly look to isolate and pick at him. Even when he gives us 30 you still feel better with Mitch out there. Like we are going to score 110 points with or without KAT when you think about it, it comes down to defense.

Realistically I think Hart is the guy he will bench if he does anything at all. Hart would take it like a pro. Deuce for Hart is probably something that could keep us afloat enough but he’s gotta get Mitch in earlier so he doesn’t play him 16 straight minutes. Start Deuce and bring Mitch in after 4-5 mins. And give him a breather before a second stint in the first half.

DLeethal wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I will say although is looks bleak, this series is NOT over. We can definitely win at Indiana. We actually play better on the road.

It’s possible if Thibs coaches to the data we can still take this because the Mitch/Deuce lineups have been dominant. He has no choice but to make a seismic move now hoping for a seismic outcome

Agree 110% adjustments need to be made and it's not just the starting lineup. The defensive on the pick and roll, especially with KAT, needs to change cause it isn't getting any better. Not sure how you fix it cause KAT is such a low IQ defender with zero awareness and poor effort but we need him to be a lot better.

And obviously Mitch needs to play more. The 18 mpg off the bench thing is over. We need him out there as much as his body allows him to. And they need to be strategic minutes where he can be there without the risk of the hack-a-Mitch. Which is why I'd definitely start him the first six minutes of the 1st and 3rd and play him at the beginning of the 2nd and 4th too.

But then starting Mitch means KAT would be on Nesmith. Unless you put Mitch in Siakim, KAT on Turner and OG on Nesmith.

SergioNYK wrote:I will say although is looks bleak, this series is NOT over. We can definitely win at Indiana. We actually play better on the road.

This is technically right, but I'm through with expecting things from such a volatile bunch. Last year, the team had clear limitations but their effort to shock the world really pulled me in and it was such a blast! To me they represented the NY grit so well. This year, with more talent and possibilities, I started believing we were for real, but the season was so inconsistent and with so much immaturity and lack of focus that it was hard to fully believe. They are still the same unpredictable and volatile team. Its so frustrating to watch.

Are they cappable of winning for and moving to the Finals? Sure! They are even capable of shocking the world and defeating the favorite OKC in the finals. When they focus, play their cards right and play up to their potential, like they did for spurts against Boston, they can truly beat anyone. But they have proved incapable of being consistent on both ends for longer than one or two quarters. So at this point, anything can happen. Wild card on a frustrating swing right now.

nycericanguy wrote:KAT is the real issue in the starting 5, its just harder and harder to have a 5 that cant defend, teams will constantly look to isolate and pick at him. Even when he gives us 30 you still feel better with Mitch out there. Like we are going to score 110 points with or without KAT when you think about it, it comes down to defense.

I think this is more a matter of how he is used on defense. How is it that lead-footed Joker isn't exposed like KAT, Or any Celtic big, none of whom can defend the perimeter.

I don;t have the answer for KAT but some coaching staffs do. And the real issue is we need to use KAT more on offense. Punish the opponent. Put their bigs in foul trouble.

SergioNYK wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I will say although is looks bleak, this series is NOT over. We can definitely win at Indiana. We actually play better on the road.

It’s possible if Thibs coaches to the data we can still take this because the Mitch/Deuce lineups have been dominant. He has no choice but to make a seismic move now hoping for a seismic outcome

Agree 110% adjustments need to be made and it's not just the starting lineup. The defensive on the pick and roll, especially with KAT, needs to change cause it isn't getting any better. Not sure how you fix it cause KAT is such a low IQ defender with zero awareness and poor effort but we need him to be a lot better.

And obviously Mitch needs to play more. The 18 mpg off the bench thing is over. We need him out there as much as his body allows him to. And they need to be strategic minutes where he can be there without the risk of the hack-a-Mitch. Which is why I'd definitely start him the first six minutes of the 1st and 3rd and play him at the beginning of the 2nd and 4th too.

But then starting Mitch means KAT would be on Nesmith. Unless you put Mitch in Siakim, KAT on Turner and OG on Nesmith.

this is the approach I would take

and I don't think KAT is low IQ as much as it is that he has enormous feet, I mean honestly they have to be over size 20. If he's out on the perimeter he has to give up something. He either sags to protect the paint (a Center's instinct) and then he gives up the 3, or he plays up on his man and is vulnerable to the drive and players need to rotate.

I will admit he gets sloppy with his hands, touch fouls etc. but that is not why we are losing. We're losing because we think it's ok for KAT to score 20 when Pacers don't have an answer for him, but we let lesser players get 20 in a quarter or 23 in a half (I forget what Siakam had in the first quarter but it was probably close to 20)

If he’d just establish deeper position, it would change everything. He’s nearly unguardable down there, and it would force defenders into real foul trouble while opening up the rest of the offense.

But the bigger issue right now is Haliburton. I’d stop doubling him. Let him go one-on-one — don’t give their shooters open looks off rotations. Let him get his at the rim if he wants, just don’t let the rest of the team get hot. And Cam Payne should not be on the floor — he’s too wild and makes poor decisions. Thibs wouldn’t catch heat for benching him.

Precious has the athleticism to make a real impact. Push the pace — make Siakam and Turner run. They don’t want to play at that speed for 48 minutes. The Pacers are dictating the tempo right now, and Thibs isn’t using the bench nearly enough to keep up.

And if I’m Thibs, all this extra contact on Brunson — two years in a row now — you’ve got to say something or do something. Set hard screens. Commit hard fouls. After what Haliburton pulled at center court, you need to send a message. This has gotten disgraceful.

nycericanguy wrote:Mitch starting honestly makes alot of sense right now, also takes the Hack a Mitch off the table. and KAT comes in against the bench players and can have the offense to himself. Don't think Thibs would do it, but it makes sense right now. we need Mitch playing 30mpg and starting makes it easier. KAT can still get his 30 min also.

Playing Mitch and Hart presents new challenges though. The real killer lineup has been Deuce and Mitch for Hart and KAT. I think the realistic happy medium is starting Deuce and bringing Mitch in earlier than usual.