gradyandrew wrote:

wargames wrote:

Clean wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Mitch makes $1.8 next year on a team option. After that his salary will likely be much higher either re-signed or as an UFA - so from a salary perspective, the main difference will be a one year cap impact....UNLESS.....the team plans on blowing it's load on salaries this year to go over the cap in coming years with Bird Rights etc.

And the Knicks Will have matching rights and a low cap hold next off season. The Knicks could roll over their space but why- Thibs isn't going anywhere, The Knicks want to compete. If They spend it this season, next season They Will be limited to resigning Randle and Robinson.

And honestly, I hope Robinson signs a 100 million dollar deal next summer with NY- because that means that he will have played his ass off.

Mitch is not in a normal contract situation. It was explained to me that if we decline his option he will be a RFA this year. However, if we pick up his option he will be a UFA next year. This is where the decision gets hard. We can guarantee we keep him if we decline his option but we will be paying a lot more money a year earlier than we have to. If we take the option we get him cheap for another year and preserve that cap space that we can use to upgrade our roster but Mitch can just leave and we get nothing in return next year.

It’s a big risk but if it works out the Knicks would be scary. One way to show he is the Center of the future is to not pay Noel to come back, but like in my S&T scenario we should try to get a asset back for him. Convington would fit really well on this team. There are other scenarios, but paying Noel more than Mitch to be his backup is the type of stuff that sours relationships.

I like your way of thinking about salary. It's more complicated if Noel comes back and is paid more, though it went down that way before as well. I read his deadline to sign and extension was June, so it looks like he will play this year and be an unrestricted FA next year with the Knicks holding full bird rights against a few million cap hold.

This point also comes into play with Derrick Rose and who and how much we bring in to replace Payton (presumably). Knicks big advantage going in to this season is that 3 starters in Barrett, Randle, and Robinson combine for around 30 million. We have a good opportunity to be aggressive in free agency.

I think Covington has a lot more value around the league than Noel and I don't think Noel's worth 12 million. Noel's cap hold is for 7.2 million so we may even just renounce him at the start.

That’s true. Looking into it I also didn’t realize Portland paid two first rounders for him… Hate to say it but that would have been a typical old school Knicks move.

Convington is a FA in 2022 so we could still sign a Max FA and chase him with the MLE.

Also you’re right the Knicks might just renounce Noel, but he is such a quality piece I could see him being in a S&T and based on last season $12 Mil annually isn’t out of the question. He looked like he could be a starter at center as long as a team didn’t need scoring from the position. He can’t hang with bigger Centers defensively, but he has better perimeter footwork than say Gobert or Capella. Depending on the team they might bite on S&T. Even if he was being made a overpaid backup on a contender over the cap. His skillset helps create winning.

Noel's 20% turnover rate was a career high, previously it had been 16%. His fga per minute prior to last season were.36 (1 fga/ 3 minutes), this season.16 (7 minutes). It seems like there is ample room for him to bounce back offensively. If he just dunked some fumbled passes It would make a difference.

I think the Lakers would be happy to trade Trez. Knicks could sign Lou Williams and have a functional bench offense if Derrick Rose starts next season. Or maybe the Lakers Square that circle and sign Williamd with their MLE.

How about a 12 million two way sign and trade deal for Kelly Oubre? Knicks will be doing Golden State a favour so they send Toronto's 2022 second rounder as compensation.

Kings guard Terence Davis won’t accept his modest $1.9M qualifying offer in free agency this offseason, according to Jason Anderson of The Sacramento Bee, who reports that Davis is expected to seek a new contract worth in the neighborhood of $9M annually.

Davis, who signed with the Raptors as an undrafted free agent in 2019, earned a spot on the All-Rookie Second Team a year ago, then was traded to the Kings at the 2021 trade deadline. He played some of the best basketball of his career down the stretch in Sacramento, averaging 11.1 points, 3.3 rebounds, and 1.7 assists per game on .439/.372/.784 shooting in 27 games (21.5 MPG).

I think there was an issue at the beginning of his contract because his injury. The knicks had the opportunity to void the contract but didn't. Maybe there's some good will. Knicks can open a few million more in cap space by waiting until the end to resign Bullock and Rose. Rose is in a similar situation with a 9 million hold and a max offer starting at 13.3. Those two numbers Give us a baseline for how much the Knicks should offer free agents i.e. the Knicks can max their cap space through the cooperation of their Rose and Bullock so best not offer someone in a similar role drastically different money.

I'm all in on the Rose train. At 32, I think we can still get 3 good seasons out of him. He was our best player in the playoffs. His true shooting had trended up his entire career peaking at 57%. Also, how much is the quest for Thibs and Rose to win a championship together worth to the organization's psychologicy and culture? They bring an immediacy to every play every night.

So yeah I think Bullock gets 3/25 fully guaranteed and Rose 3/40.

fwk00 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Ok... let's keep an open mind. Yeah, he didn't deserve to make all rookie team over RJ. And yeah, he had some weird domestic dispute charges out of NY, but he's been cleared as far as I know.
But he's a young 3&D guy who would add athleticism to the lineup.
https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/terence_davis_to_seek_9_million_per_year_as_restricted_free_agent/s1_14822_35356655

Kings guard Terence Davis won’t accept his modest $1.9M qualifying offer in free agency this offseason, according to Jason Anderson of The Sacramento Bee, who reports that Davis is expected to seek a new contract worth in the neighborhood of $9M annually.

Davis, who signed with the Raptors as an undrafted free agent in 2019, earned a spot on the All-Rookie Second Team a year ago, then was traded to the Kings at the 2021 trade deadline. He played some of the best basketball of his career down the stretch in Sacramento, averaging 11.1 points, 3.3 rebounds, and 1.7 assists per game on .439/.372/.784 shooting in 27 games (21.5 MPG).

Better than Burks?

When I think about new players my feeling is that whoever is coming in as a replacement for someone not returning, that player needs to bring more to the table than the one leaving.

Bullock is the canary in the coal mine. By season's end he had become an above average performer. If you can't find a better fit then resign him, draft a kid who may break out and call it a day. IMO, lateral moves are pointless unless there's an additional incentive involved.

gradyandrew wrote:By any objective standard Bullock had the better season, 41% on 3s, 2.3 defensive win shares. Knicks hold Bullocks early bird rights; his cap hold is 120% his salary and Knicks can offer a multi year deal with at least the first year guaranteed at 175%. Those work out to 4.8/7 respectively. 3 years guaranteed at 20% raises would be about 25 million.

I think there was an issue at the beginning of his contract because his injury. The knicks had the opportunity to void the contract but didn't. Maybe there's some good will. Knicks can open a few million more in cap space by waiting until the end to resign Bullock and Rose. Rose is in a similar situation with a 9 million hold and a max offer starting at 13.3. Those two numbers Give us a baseline for how much the Knicks should offer free agents i.e. the Knicks can max their cap space through the cooperation of their Rose and Bullock so best not offer someone in a similar role drastically different money.

I'm all in on the Rose train. At 32, I think we can still get 3 good seasons out of him. He was our best player in the playoffs. His true shooting had trended up his entire career peaking at 57%. Also, how much is the quest for Thibs and Rose to win a championship together worth to the organization's psychologicy and culture? They bring an immediacy to every play every night.

So yeah I think Bullock gets 3/25 fully guaranteed and Rose 3/40.

Bullock is the prototypical catch and shoot guy. He literally can’t do anything else on offense he has no dribble, he’s not big enough to post up and has no moves anyway. He’s an ok defender but better players have no problem scoring on him

I’d be fine bringing him back on a cheap one year deal ideally as depth

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:By any objective standard Bullock had the better season, 41% on 3s, 2.3 defensive win shares. Knicks hold Bullocks early bird rights; his cap hold is 120% his salary and Knicks can offer a multi year deal with at least the first year guaranteed at 175%. Those work out to 4.8/7 respectively. 3 years guaranteed at 20% raises would be about 25 million.

I think there was an issue at the beginning of his contract because his injury. The knicks had the opportunity to void the contract but didn't. Maybe there's some good will. Knicks can open a few million more in cap space by waiting until the end to resign Bullock and Rose. Rose is in a similar situation with a 9 million hold and a max offer starting at 13.3. Those two numbers Give us a baseline for how much the Knicks should offer free agents i.e. the Knicks can max their cap space through the cooperation of their Rose and Bullock so best not offer someone in a similar role drastically different money.

I'm all in on the Rose train. At 32, I think we can still get 3 good seasons out of him. He was our best player in the playoffs. His true shooting had trended up his entire career peaking at 57%. Also, how much is the quest for Thibs and Rose to win a championship together worth to the organization's psychologicy and culture? They bring an immediacy to every play every night.

So yeah I think Bullock gets 3/25 fully guaranteed and Rose 3/40.

Bullock is the prototypical catch and shoot guy. He literally can’t do anything else on offense he has no dribble, he’s not big enough to post up and has no moves anyway. He’s an ok defender but better players have no problem scoring on him

I’d be fine bringing him back on a cheap one year deal ideally as depth

He was our Bogdonovich. They come in handy!

I don’t dislike Bullock but he’s got his limitations on both sides of the floor

If he or Elf/Rose are starting for us next year we have problems

Maybe trade into Kispert and draft a PF with 32, someone/anyone at 58?

knicks1248 wrote:

The Nets are expected to have free-agent center Nerlens Noel, 27, on their radar. Blake Griffin and Jeff Green are both unrestricted free agents for the Nets. SNY reported that the Hornets, Mavericks and Raptors also all are expected to have interest in Noel, the Knicks big man. The Nets have the $6 million mid-level exception, but Noel made $5 million last year and could be due for a raise

Noel and Burks, maybe Bullock will likely get offers that offer more playing time as well as cash. Maybe even Rose.

We may lose them all.

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

The Nets are expected to have free-agent center Nerlens Noel, 27, on their radar. Blake Griffin and Jeff Green are both unrestricted free agents for the Nets. SNY reported that the Hornets, Mavericks and Raptors also all are expected to have interest in Noel, the Knicks big man. The Nets have the $6 million mid-level exception, but Noel made $5 million last year and could be due for a raise

Noel and Burks, maybe Bullock will likely get offers that offer more playing time as well as cash. Maybe even Rose.

We may lose them all.

Are those guys in any different position than they were a year ago? Not too much IMHO

Well, they all posted a good, useful year. Last year they were one of many dubious fish in a barrel. This year they shine a bit brighter. Lots of contending teams need glue guys in their price range. I think their markets will be good. And their careers depend on playing time so getting a gig that offers long term sustainability is key.

With so many draft picks, I think the Knicks will be hard-pressed to draft and bury the kids. But... Thibs.