gunsnewing wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is like an episode of the twilight zone.

So many passive aggressively pushing to get the posters with different viewpoints banned. Like we are a bunch of high school girls. If that's not Mob mentality I don't know what is

who the hell wants anybody banned? where did ANYONE say that? you're the only person with their panties in a bunch about anything (and starksewing since you guys dont like the "tone" fish takes with you)

as martin said earlier in this thread, i think you are blowing everythign waaaaay out of proportion. your posting towards crush, who is as level-headed as they come around here, is the prime example. maybe you need to take a break from here.

And Martin admitted to not reading the whole thread as has some others.
Besides you are missing the point if you think this is just about this thread. As dk said recounted. This has been going on for years now.

And let me say for the 20th time. Crzy's thread is fine and everyone agreed we missed Melo. It's the title and the baiting from the usual suspects like yourself.

It's all right there. I'm not overreacting. Maybe just maybe you and Martin are "reaching out" to the wrong people. Too say I'm overreacting is just playing dumb.
Anything else?

dude, how about we move on from this?

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is like an episode of the twilight zone.

So many passive aggressively pushing to get the posters with different viewpoints banned. Like we are a bunch of high school girls. If that's not Mob mentality I don't know what is

as i have said all along, if melo plays the right way i will be the first to sing his praises, and if he plays the wrong way i will be the first to castigate him. that's called "understanding what it takes to win" and "being objective." it's not my problem that he has been playing the wrong way up until this season. i think what people don't like about my posts is more my "tone" than the content, which clearly has been accurate i terms of the type of player he has been vis a vis what he should have been.

in other words, what these hooligans fail to accept is that the "bad melo" we have been stuck with could have been playing the right way all along, ie defending with vigor and facilitating, giving up bad shots by passing the ball to teammates with better shots. and now that he is playing the right way, they hide behind their collective error by going on the attack.

the canards of "this is who melo is, a volume shooter," and "he needs better players, players he trusts," have been disproven, and utterly. in other words, he has never "needed help" so much as he "needed to BE the help." this is the primary reason the knicks have looked their most promising since february 2011. he is playing way way WAY better than the 54-28 season.

you may not like this assertion-- i can't remember now whether you respected fisher as a coach-- but here goes: phil jackson and derek fisher have gotten through to carmelo anthony. it took about 15-20 games this season to get there, and there is no doubt that more than several of fisher's post game interviews he was speaking in veiled words about melo and the need for melo to play the right way. so if he is speaking in veiled terms with the media, you can bet your last dollar that he has been teaching melo extensively in film meetings and practices, pointing out where melo needs to change his approach. of course several here mocked me for saying that this is what has been going on, but maybe they will have learned something. or not-- i don't care. he is finally playing the way i have wanted him to play and he is earning the money he was paid. so virtually 100% of the credit goes to those two winners who understand what it takes to win, and their getting through to a player with a hitherto losing approach.

it's not my problem that posters accustomed to the castigating of the "bad melo" still want me and you and a couple of others gone.

There may have been jabs thrown at you when you first joined about getting banned. But you have settled in here and been apart of the board going on 4 yrs now. Guns has been on the board going on 14yrs. Nobody is looking to get you guys banned. I don't think so anyway.

If you look at the flow of the thread. Crzymdups created this thread with the viewpoint that of Melo's presence impacting KPs development. Which was then backed by an article he posted showing statistical data that backed up his viewpoint. The only rebuttal presented was how KP missed dunks which potentially means that he had tired legs which may have lead to his poor shooting night. Which intentional or not, mostly comes off as an angle in order to down play Melo's impact. Which then turned into well Melo has only been playing like this recently as if that really mattered. Which then opens up the whole Melo's past history debate for the millionth time. Then everyone goes on to defender the stances they once held about Melo.

But again the dynamic that seems to not get emphasized enough is Y has Melo now been willing to play more team ball and be more of a leader. The circumstances of Melo playing in the triangle, while having a whole team built around him with cap space, with Phil being the one molding the roster, while adding a top 4 lotto talent like KP differs from all the circumstances that Melo has been through in the past. Melo's past history is not relevant to the new circumstances he has found himself in right now. There is a lot of things that went into place for Melo to change his ways. Everyone needs help that statement will always hold true. Melo needing to be the help is true for him to take his game to the next level. But that only speaks about the end result, whats was missing was the whole dynamic of how to get him there. Lets not act like there also wasn't the viewpoint of Melo being a selfish ball jock who couldn't buy in regardless of circumstance. Phil's moves though with the type of players he brought in tell us everything we need to know imo. That Phil decided the best way to get him there was to bring in the type of players he brought in.

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is like an episode of the twilight zone.

So many passive aggressively pushing to get the posters with different viewpoints banned. Like we are a bunch of high school girls. If that's not Mob mentality I don't know what is

as i have said all along, if melo plays the right way i will be the first to sing his praises, and if he plays the wrong way i will be the first to castigate him. that's called "understanding what it takes to win" and "being objective." it's not my problem that he has been playing the wrong way up until this season. i think what people don't like about my posts is more my "tone" than the content, which clearly has been accurate i terms of the type of player he has been vis a vis what he should have been.

in other words, what these hooligans fail to accept is that the "bad melo" we have been stuck with could have been playing the right way all along, ie defending with vigor and facilitating, giving up bad shots by passing the ball to teammates with better shots. and now that he is playing the right way, they hide behind their collective error by going on the attack.

the canards of "this is who melo is, a volume shooter," and "he needs better players, players he trusts," have been disproven, and utterly. in other words, he has never "needed help" so much as he "needed to BE the help." this is the primary reason the knicks have looked their most promising since february 2011. he is playing way way WAY better than the 54-28 season.

you may not like this assertion-- i can't remember now whether you respected fisher as a coach-- but here goes: phil jackson and derek fisher have gotten through to carmelo anthony. it took about 15-20 games this season to get there, and there is no doubt that more than several of fisher's post game interviews he was speaking in veiled words about melo and the need for melo to play the right way. so if he is speaking in veiled terms with the media, you can bet your last dollar that he has been teaching melo extensively in film meetings and practices, pointing out where melo needs to change his approach. of course several here mocked me for saying that this is what has been going on, but maybe they will have learned something. or not-- i don't care. he is finally playing the way i have wanted him to play and he is earning the money he was paid. so virtually 100% of the credit goes to those two winners who understand what it takes to win, and their getting through to a player with a hitherto losing approach.

it's not my problem that posters accustomed to the castigating of the "bad melo" still want me and you and a couple of others gone.

There may have been jabs thrown at you when you first joined about getting banned. But you have settled in here and been apart of the board going on 4 yrs now. Guns has been on the board going on 14yrs. Nobody is looking to get you guys banned. I don't think so anyway.

If you look at the flow of the thread. Crzymdups created this thread with the viewpoint that of Melo's presence impacting KPs development. Which was then backed by an article he posted showing statistical data that backed up his viewpoint. The only rebuttal presented was how KP missed dunks which potentially means that he had tired legs which may have lead to his poor shooting night. Which intentional or not, mostly comes off as an angle in order to down play Melo's impact. Which then turned into well Melo has only been playing like this recently as if that really mattered. Which then opens up the whole Melo's past history debate for the millionth time. Then everyone goes on to defender the stances they once held about Melo.

But again the dynamic that seems to not get emphasized enough is Y has Melo now been willing to play more team ball and be more of a leader. The circumstances of Melo playing in the triangle, while having a whole team built around him with cap space, with Phil being the one molding the roster, while adding a top 4 lotto talent like KP differs from all the circumstances that Melo has been through in the past. Melo's past history is not relevant to the new circumstances he has found himself in right now. There is a lot of things that went into place for Melo to change his ways. Everyone needs help that statement will always hold true. Melo needing to be the help is true for him to take his game to the next level. But that only speaks about the end result, whats was missing was the whole dynamic of how to get him there. Lets not act like there also wasn't the viewpoint of Melo being a selfish ball jock who couldn't buy in regardless of circumstance. Phil's moves though with the type of players he brought in tell us everything we need to know imo. That Phil decided the best way to get him there was to bring in the type of players he brought in.

the bulk of your post seems solid at first glance but i am going to have to study later because i'm watching football right now; for now the bolded part is patently false and contradictory when it concerns my point of view about melo. i have always maintained he could *and should* be playing the right way, circumstances be damned. hence i never really doubted his skills-- otherwise why would i upbraid him, right?-- but i certainly took issue with his mindset, which was one of conceitedness, greed, and a sprinkling of the primadonna. so what i saw was that he wasn't giving it his all, and he was selfish. you will have to remind me of who it was here who has ever said that he would never change regardless of circumstance? perhaps you refer to those who, ironically, maintained that "melo is who he is."

gunsnewing wrote:As I've said before Dk, unlike you and Mreinman I didn't think he had the basketball IQ or was capable of playing teamball. I also didn't feel he had the lateral quickness to be a good defender ever. Especially after 13yrs in the league. Heck I didn't even think he had the drive to be a good defender and take playing defense to heart for 48mins.

I would still trade the OldMelo to Minnesota for Derrick Williams, their 1st ROUNDER, Luke Ridnour & Chase Buddinger but not now. Not with Melo finally playing the way we hoped he would someday and I thought that day would never come.

But its here and I'm pretty damn excited about the KP/Melo pairing with a few tweaks in the offseason like adding Conley, Batum or Wroten. Hope we can get a 1st ROUND in this draft like we did for THJ.

I'm happy we finally have a system and in the process of developing an identity and winning culture and a President who Dolan and the fanbase/media know not to mess with because he has the hardware in boat loads.

We all may be critical of individual moves Phil makes and he will get better with more experience as GM. We know he knows what it takes to win and the kind of players and characters you need like smart players, players who hold themselves accountable and guys who will take a bullet for each other. As far as the details like free agent talent vs money vs value assessment, making the most out of each cent of cap space available & how to get the most out of every roster spot.

You will see less Jason Smith/Serafin type signings and more Popovich/Riley/Bellichek where everything they touch seems to turn to gold. Phil & Fisher already has Lance Thomas under their belts which is a sign of a gm who knows exactly the kinda player he is looking for. Phil said he would comb through other teams rosters and try to find guys who are stuck in a numbers crunch but has the IQ, character & skills to fit in the triangle. That is the making of a great President/GM and no one can question these 4 guys not even the owners leading to incredibly long continuity and forward/upward trending movement. Complete 180 from the laughingstock days we'd grown accustomed to.