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foosballnick
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Joined: 6/17/2010
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4/10/2015  7:52 AM
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
I actually think Phil is going the route of the 37 win team model..I think he will sign FAs that fits his system and have young players at the end of the bench...My issue is that it seems like we are banking on fringe/DLeaguers to be these bench players...He says he wants to have continuity...Having 5/6 Dleaguers/fringe NBA players that we are hoping to develop isn't a good thing in my opinion...

If over the course of the next two years he is able to put together a good starting 5..I hope he will look to vet players with maybe one or two young players to make up his bench..My point about the 54 win team is that the supporting role were mostly vet players..


Not sure how this makes sense. The 37 win team model was a core of 3 highly paid overpriced older players. 1 of whom (Amare) was chronically injured when he was signed and played sparingly. A second player (Tyson) was in and out of the lineup due to various ailments/sickness and was malcontent with the situation. The rest of the lineup consisted of an inconsistently bad PG (Felton) who had off the court legal issues and a SG with a lot of talent but who was a major flake on and off the court. The reserves were a combination of Draft pick reaches who had not worked out for the Knicks (Shump & THJ), veteran risks (Kenyon, Prigs, Bargs, Udrih), and a couple of younger guys (Murry, Aldrich, Tyler). The Head Coach had no clear system of play. This model was based on an unsustainable model from the previous season. The 54 win team was more successful due mainly to better production from Chandler, JR and Felton with the added leadership from Kidd. The rest of the bench veterans were not that successful due to injury (Camby for example). Both of these teams had no cap space.

Phil's rebuild model seems to be based on identifying a new core of 3/4 players. Consisting of 1 highly paid veteran (Melo) a 1 High Draft pick (TBD) and several FAs (TBD). The young guys he is evaluating now would seemingly be for inexpensive and cap friendly reserve type roles. The new model seems to be based on better cap usage and younger players for the longer term. Of course until we know more of his offseason moves, it is all just speculation.

The term model refers to the type of team consisting of vet players..Not the exact players and contract situation...Why so literal???

If someone is rebuilding in the San Antonio model, they aren't trying to get Tim Duncan and Tony Parker...

I'm quite aware what the term "model" refers to. You proposed a theory that Phil is modeling his rebuild roster similar to the 37 win team from last year. Since you really provided no factual or concrete references, I broke down that roster and situation to invalidate your theory. That team had a mixture of older guys and some younger guys as reserves. That team had extreme imbalance of cap space to three guys and was therefore forced to try and tweak a roster a certain way. This roster is in a totally different situation and mindset. You and others are trying way to hard to invalidate Phil instead of letting it play out a bit more.

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holfresh
Posts: 38679
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Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/10/2015  11:30 AM
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
I actually think Phil is going the route of the 37 win team model..I think he will sign FAs that fits his system and have young players at the end of the bench...My issue is that it seems like we are banking on fringe/DLeaguers to be these bench players...He says he wants to have continuity...Having 5/6 Dleaguers/fringe NBA players that we are hoping to develop isn't a good thing in my opinion...

If over the course of the next two years he is able to put together a good starting 5..I hope he will look to vet players with maybe one or two young players to make up his bench..My point about the 54 win team is that the supporting role were mostly vet players..


Not sure how this makes sense. The 37 win team model was a core of 3 highly paid overpriced older players. 1 of whom (Amare) was chronically injured when he was signed and played sparingly. A second player (Tyson) was in and out of the lineup due to various ailments/sickness and was malcontent with the situation. The rest of the lineup consisted of an inconsistently bad PG (Felton) who had off the court legal issues and a SG with a lot of talent but who was a major flake on and off the court. The reserves were a combination of Draft pick reaches who had not worked out for the Knicks (Shump & THJ), veteran risks (Kenyon, Prigs, Bargs, Udrih), and a couple of younger guys (Murry, Aldrich, Tyler). The Head Coach had no clear system of play. This model was based on an unsustainable model from the previous season. The 54 win team was more successful due mainly to better production from Chandler, JR and Felton with the added leadership from Kidd. The rest of the bench veterans were not that successful due to injury (Camby for example). Both of these teams had no cap space.

Phil's rebuild model seems to be based on identifying a new core of 3/4 players. Consisting of 1 highly paid veteran (Melo) a 1 High Draft pick (TBD) and several FAs (TBD). The young guys he is evaluating now would seemingly be for inexpensive and cap friendly reserve type roles. The new model seems to be based on better cap usage and younger players for the longer term. Of course until we know more of his offseason moves, it is all just speculation.

The term model refers to the type of team consisting of vet players..Not the exact players and contract situation...Why so literal???

If someone is rebuilding in the San Antonio model, they aren't trying to get Tim Duncan and Tony Parker...

I'm quite aware what the term "model" refers to. You proposed a theory that Phil is modeling his rebuild roster similar to the 37 win team from last year. Since you really provided no factual or concrete references, I broke down that roster and situation to invalidate your theory. That team had a mixture of older guys and some younger guys as reserves. That team had extreme imbalance of cap space to three guys and was therefore forced to try and tweak a roster a certain way. This roster is in a totally different situation and mindset. You and others are trying way to hard to invalidate Phil instead of letting it play out a bit more.


Seems like you are nit picking and lashing out because I expressed concern over some of Phil's moves...The Knicks are 15-63 and Derek Fisher is our head coach...I think my concerns were validated...
nixluva
Posts: 56258
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Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
4/10/2015  11:35 AM
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
I actually think Phil is going the route of the 37 win team model..I think he will sign FAs that fits his system and have young players at the end of the bench...My issue is that it seems like we are banking on fringe/DLeaguers to be these bench players...He says he wants to have continuity...Having 5/6 Dleaguers/fringe NBA players that we are hoping to develop isn't a good thing in my opinion...

If over the course of the next two years he is able to put together a good starting 5..I hope he will look to vet players with maybe one or two young players to make up his bench..My point about the 54 win team is that the supporting role were mostly vet players..


Not sure how this makes sense. The 37 win team model was a core of 3 highly paid overpriced older players. 1 of whom (Amare) was chronically injured when he was signed and played sparingly. A second player (Tyson) was in and out of the lineup due to various ailments/sickness and was malcontent with the situation. The rest of the lineup consisted of an inconsistently bad PG (Felton) who had off the court legal issues and a SG with a lot of talent but who was a major flake on and off the court. The reserves were a combination of Draft pick reaches who had not worked out for the Knicks (Shump & THJ), veteran risks (Kenyon, Prigs, Bargs, Udrih), and a couple of younger guys (Murry, Aldrich, Tyler). The Head Coach had no clear system of play. This model was based on an unsustainable model from the previous season. The 54 win team was more successful due mainly to better production from Chandler, JR and Felton with the added leadership from Kidd. The rest of the bench veterans were not that successful due to injury (Camby for example). Both of these teams had no cap space.

Phil's rebuild model seems to be based on identifying a new core of 3/4 players. Consisting of 1 highly paid veteran (Melo) a 1 High Draft pick (TBD) and several FAs (TBD). The young guys he is evaluating now would seemingly be for inexpensive and cap friendly reserve type roles. The new model seems to be based on better cap usage and younger players for the longer term. Of course until we know more of his offseason moves, it is all just speculation.

The term model refers to the type of team consisting of vet players..Not the exact players and contract situation...Why so literal???

If someone is rebuilding in the San Antonio model, they aren't trying to get Tim Duncan and Tony Parker...

I'm quite aware what the term "model" refers to. You proposed a theory that Phil is modeling his rebuild roster similar to the 37 win team from last year. Since you really provided no factual or concrete references, I broke down that roster and situation to invalidate your theory. That team had a mixture of older guys and some younger guys as reserves. That team had extreme imbalance of cap space to three guys and was therefore forced to try and tweak a roster a certain way. This roster is in a totally different situation and mindset. You and others are trying way to hard to invalidate Phil instead of letting it play out a bit more.


Seems like you are nit picking and lashing out because I expressed concern over some of Phil's moves...The Knicks are 15-63 and Derek Fisher is our head coach...I think my concerns were validated...

Come on man this record is artificially worse than it could be if Melo was healthy and Phil was actually trying to win. Phil decided not to sacrifice any more assets to try and win a few more games. The rebuild is in full swing. As for Fisher any coach would look bad with no talent and any rookie coach is going to have some shaky moments. If you have a great team it makes any coaches job that much easier. I was watching the warriors last night and thinking how no amount of coaching makes Curry able to hit the shots he was hitting last night. Talent is the most important factor in Basketball. Coaching is important but not as important as the talent on the floor.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
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Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/10/2015  11:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/10/2015  11:38 AM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
I actually think Phil is going the route of the 37 win team model..I think he will sign FAs that fits his system and have young players at the end of the bench...My issue is that it seems like we are banking on fringe/DLeaguers to be these bench players...He says he wants to have continuity...Having 5/6 Dleaguers/fringe NBA players that we are hoping to develop isn't a good thing in my opinion...

If over the course of the next two years he is able to put together a good starting 5..I hope he will look to vet players with maybe one or two young players to make up his bench..My point about the 54 win team is that the supporting role were mostly vet players..


Not sure how this makes sense. The 37 win team model was a core of 3 highly paid overpriced older players. 1 of whom (Amare) was chronically injured when he was signed and played sparingly. A second player (Tyson) was in and out of the lineup due to various ailments/sickness and was malcontent with the situation. The rest of the lineup consisted of an inconsistently bad PG (Felton) who had off the court legal issues and a SG with a lot of talent but who was a major flake on and off the court. The reserves were a combination of Draft pick reaches who had not worked out for the Knicks (Shump & THJ), veteran risks (Kenyon, Prigs, Bargs, Udrih), and a couple of younger guys (Murry, Aldrich, Tyler). The Head Coach had no clear system of play. This model was based on an unsustainable model from the previous season. The 54 win team was more successful due mainly to better production from Chandler, JR and Felton with the added leadership from Kidd. The rest of the bench veterans were not that successful due to injury (Camby for example). Both of these teams had no cap space.

Phil's rebuild model seems to be based on identifying a new core of 3/4 players. Consisting of 1 highly paid veteran (Melo) a 1 High Draft pick (TBD) and several FAs (TBD). The young guys he is evaluating now would seemingly be for inexpensive and cap friendly reserve type roles. The new model seems to be based on better cap usage and younger players for the longer term. Of course until we know more of his offseason moves, it is all just speculation.

The term model refers to the type of team consisting of vet players..Not the exact players and contract situation...Why so literal???

If someone is rebuilding in the San Antonio model, they aren't trying to get Tim Duncan and Tony Parker...

I'm quite aware what the term "model" refers to. You proposed a theory that Phil is modeling his rebuild roster similar to the 37 win team from last year. Since you really provided no factual or concrete references, I broke down that roster and situation to invalidate your theory. That team had a mixture of older guys and some younger guys as reserves. That team had extreme imbalance of cap space to three guys and was therefore forced to try and tweak a roster a certain way. This roster is in a totally different situation and mindset. You and others are trying way to hard to invalidate Phil instead of letting it play out a bit more.


Seems like you are nit picking and lashing out because I expressed concern over some of Phil's moves...The Knicks are 15-63 and Derek Fisher is our head coach...I think my concerns were validated...

Come on man this record is artificially worse than it could be if Melo was healthy and Phil was actually trying to win. Phil decided not to sacrifice any more assets to try and win a few more games. The rebuild is in full swing. As for Fisher any coach would look bad with no talent and any rookie coach is going to have some shaky moments. If you have a great team it makes any coaches job that much easier. I was watching the warriors last night and thinking how no amount of coaching makes Curry able to hit the shots he was hitting last night. Talent is the most important factor in Basketball. Coaching is important but not as important as the talent on the floor.

Completely different topic..But how does Curry get a pass for taking those shots??

nixluva
Posts: 56258
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Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
4/10/2015  11:53 AM
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
I actually think Phil is going the route of the 37 win team model..I think he will sign FAs that fits his system and have young players at the end of the bench...My issue is that it seems like we are banking on fringe/DLeaguers to be these bench players...He says he wants to have continuity...Having 5/6 Dleaguers/fringe NBA players that we are hoping to develop isn't a good thing in my opinion...

If over the course of the next two years he is able to put together a good starting 5..I hope he will look to vet players with maybe one or two young players to make up his bench..My point about the 54 win team is that the supporting role were mostly vet players..


Not sure how this makes sense. The 37 win team model was a core of 3 highly paid overpriced older players. 1 of whom (Amare) was chronically injured when he was signed and played sparingly. A second player (Tyson) was in and out of the lineup due to various ailments/sickness and was malcontent with the situation. The rest of the lineup consisted of an inconsistently bad PG (Felton) who had off the court legal issues and a SG with a lot of talent but who was a major flake on and off the court. The reserves were a combination of Draft pick reaches who had not worked out for the Knicks (Shump & THJ), veteran risks (Kenyon, Prigs, Bargs, Udrih), and a couple of younger guys (Murry, Aldrich, Tyler). The Head Coach had no clear system of play. This model was based on an unsustainable model from the previous season. The 54 win team was more successful due mainly to better production from Chandler, JR and Felton with the added leadership from Kidd. The rest of the bench veterans were not that successful due to injury (Camby for example). Both of these teams had no cap space.

Phil's rebuild model seems to be based on identifying a new core of 3/4 players. Consisting of 1 highly paid veteran (Melo) a 1 High Draft pick (TBD) and several FAs (TBD). The young guys he is evaluating now would seemingly be for inexpensive and cap friendly reserve type roles. The new model seems to be based on better cap usage and younger players for the longer term. Of course until we know more of his offseason moves, it is all just speculation.

The term model refers to the type of team consisting of vet players..Not the exact players and contract situation...Why so literal???

If someone is rebuilding in the San Antonio model, they aren't trying to get Tim Duncan and Tony Parker...

I'm quite aware what the term "model" refers to. You proposed a theory that Phil is modeling his rebuild roster similar to the 37 win team from last year. Since you really provided no factual or concrete references, I broke down that roster and situation to invalidate your theory. That team had a mixture of older guys and some younger guys as reserves. That team had extreme imbalance of cap space to three guys and was therefore forced to try and tweak a roster a certain way. This roster is in a totally different situation and mindset. You and others are trying way to hard to invalidate Phil instead of letting it play out a bit more.


Seems like you are nit picking and lashing out because I expressed concern over some of Phil's moves...The Knicks are 15-63 and Derek Fisher is our head coach...I think my concerns were validated...

Come on man this record is artificially worse than it could be if Melo was healthy and Phil was actually trying to win. Phil decided not to sacrifice any more assets to try and win a few more games. The rebuild is in full swing. As for Fisher any coach would look bad with no talent and any rookie coach is going to have some shaky moments. If you have a great team it makes any coaches job that much easier. I was watching the warriors last night and thinking how no amount of coaching makes Curry able to hit the shots he was hitting last night. Talent is the most important factor in Basketball. Coaching is important but not as important as the talent on the floor.

Completely different topic..But how does Curry get a pass for taking those shots??

The kid is the star of the team and has a green light and deservedly so. No coach would put reigns on Curry. He's the kind of player that makes any coach look good. You can just roll the ball out there and this kid would still look great. Now when it comes to winning a title that's where the coach comes in. You need that tactician and talent jockey who can direct that collection of talent in the best direction against equal talent. We still have yet to see how Kerr will perform and surely Fish has no chance this year to show how he'd handle such a situation if he was in the same spot as Kerr. Some coaches are great in the regular season, like Woodson, but come up small in the playoffs.

holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/10/2015  11:55 AM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
I actually think Phil is going the route of the 37 win team model..I think he will sign FAs that fits his system and have young players at the end of the bench...My issue is that it seems like we are banking on fringe/DLeaguers to be these bench players...He says he wants to have continuity...Having 5/6 Dleaguers/fringe NBA players that we are hoping to develop isn't a good thing in my opinion...

If over the course of the next two years he is able to put together a good starting 5..I hope he will look to vet players with maybe one or two young players to make up his bench..My point about the 54 win team is that the supporting role were mostly vet players..


Not sure how this makes sense. The 37 win team model was a core of 3 highly paid overpriced older players. 1 of whom (Amare) was chronically injured when he was signed and played sparingly. A second player (Tyson) was in and out of the lineup due to various ailments/sickness and was malcontent with the situation. The rest of the lineup consisted of an inconsistently bad PG (Felton) who had off the court legal issues and a SG with a lot of talent but who was a major flake on and off the court. The reserves were a combination of Draft pick reaches who had not worked out for the Knicks (Shump & THJ), veteran risks (Kenyon, Prigs, Bargs, Udrih), and a couple of younger guys (Murry, Aldrich, Tyler). The Head Coach had no clear system of play. This model was based on an unsustainable model from the previous season. The 54 win team was more successful due mainly to better production from Chandler, JR and Felton with the added leadership from Kidd. The rest of the bench veterans were not that successful due to injury (Camby for example). Both of these teams had no cap space.

Phil's rebuild model seems to be based on identifying a new core of 3/4 players. Consisting of 1 highly paid veteran (Melo) a 1 High Draft pick (TBD) and several FAs (TBD). The young guys he is evaluating now would seemingly be for inexpensive and cap friendly reserve type roles. The new model seems to be based on better cap usage and younger players for the longer term. Of course until we know more of his offseason moves, it is all just speculation.

The term model refers to the type of team consisting of vet players..Not the exact players and contract situation...Why so literal???

If someone is rebuilding in the San Antonio model, they aren't trying to get Tim Duncan and Tony Parker...

I'm quite aware what the term "model" refers to. You proposed a theory that Phil is modeling his rebuild roster similar to the 37 win team from last year. Since you really provided no factual or concrete references, I broke down that roster and situation to invalidate your theory. That team had a mixture of older guys and some younger guys as reserves. That team had extreme imbalance of cap space to three guys and was therefore forced to try and tweak a roster a certain way. This roster is in a totally different situation and mindset. You and others are trying way to hard to invalidate Phil instead of letting it play out a bit more.


Seems like you are nit picking and lashing out because I expressed concern over some of Phil's moves...The Knicks are 15-63 and Derek Fisher is our head coach...I think my concerns were validated...

Come on man this record is artificially worse than it could be if Melo was healthy and Phil was actually trying to win. Phil decided not to sacrifice any more assets to try and win a few more games. The rebuild is in full swing. As for Fisher any coach would look bad with no talent and any rookie coach is going to have some shaky moments. If you have a great team it makes any coaches job that much easier. I was watching the warriors last night and thinking how no amount of coaching makes Curry able to hit the shots he was hitting last night. Talent is the most important factor in Basketball. Coaching is important but not as important as the talent on the floor.

Completely different topic..But how does Curry get a pass for taking those shots??

The kid is the star of the team and has a green light and deservedly so. No coach would put reigns on Curry. He's the kind of player that makes any coach look good. You can just roll the ball out there and this kid would still look great. Now when it comes to winning a title that's where the coach comes in. You need that tactician and talent jockey who can direct that collection of talent in the best direction against equal talent. We still have yet to see how Kerr will perform and surely Fish has no chance this year to show how he'd handle such a situation if he was in the same spot as Kerr. Some coaches are great in the regular season, like Woodson, but come up small in the playoffs.

No matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it still a pig..Those are horrible shots...

nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
4/10/2015  12:11 PM
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
I actually think Phil is going the route of the 37 win team model..I think he will sign FAs that fits his system and have young players at the end of the bench...My issue is that it seems like we are banking on fringe/DLeaguers to be these bench players...He says he wants to have continuity...Having 5/6 Dleaguers/fringe NBA players that we are hoping to develop isn't a good thing in my opinion...

If over the course of the next two years he is able to put together a good starting 5..I hope he will look to vet players with maybe one or two young players to make up his bench..My point about the 54 win team is that the supporting role were mostly vet players..


Not sure how this makes sense. The 37 win team model was a core of 3 highly paid overpriced older players. 1 of whom (Amare) was chronically injured when he was signed and played sparingly. A second player (Tyson) was in and out of the lineup due to various ailments/sickness and was malcontent with the situation. The rest of the lineup consisted of an inconsistently bad PG (Felton) who had off the court legal issues and a SG with a lot of talent but who was a major flake on and off the court. The reserves were a combination of Draft pick reaches who had not worked out for the Knicks (Shump & THJ), veteran risks (Kenyon, Prigs, Bargs, Udrih), and a couple of younger guys (Murry, Aldrich, Tyler). The Head Coach had no clear system of play. This model was based on an unsustainable model from the previous season. The 54 win team was more successful due mainly to better production from Chandler, JR and Felton with the added leadership from Kidd. The rest of the bench veterans were not that successful due to injury (Camby for example). Both of these teams had no cap space.

Phil's rebuild model seems to be based on identifying a new core of 3/4 players. Consisting of 1 highly paid veteran (Melo) a 1 High Draft pick (TBD) and several FAs (TBD). The young guys he is evaluating now would seemingly be for inexpensive and cap friendly reserve type roles. The new model seems to be based on better cap usage and younger players for the longer term. Of course until we know more of his offseason moves, it is all just speculation.

The term model refers to the type of team consisting of vet players..Not the exact players and contract situation...Why so literal???

If someone is rebuilding in the San Antonio model, they aren't trying to get Tim Duncan and Tony Parker...

I'm quite aware what the term "model" refers to. You proposed a theory that Phil is modeling his rebuild roster similar to the 37 win team from last year. Since you really provided no factual or concrete references, I broke down that roster and situation to invalidate your theory. That team had a mixture of older guys and some younger guys as reserves. That team had extreme imbalance of cap space to three guys and was therefore forced to try and tweak a roster a certain way. This roster is in a totally different situation and mindset. You and others are trying way to hard to invalidate Phil instead of letting it play out a bit more.


Seems like you are nit picking and lashing out because I expressed concern over some of Phil's moves...The Knicks are 15-63 and Derek Fisher is our head coach...I think my concerns were validated...

Come on man this record is artificially worse than it could be if Melo was healthy and Phil was actually trying to win. Phil decided not to sacrifice any more assets to try and win a few more games. The rebuild is in full swing. As for Fisher any coach would look bad with no talent and any rookie coach is going to have some shaky moments. If you have a great team it makes any coaches job that much easier. I was watching the warriors last night and thinking how no amount of coaching makes Curry able to hit the shots he was hitting last night. Talent is the most important factor in Basketball. Coaching is important but not as important as the talent on the floor.

Completely different topic..But how does Curry get a pass for taking those shots??

The kid is the star of the team and has a green light and deservedly so. No coach would put reigns on Curry. He's the kind of player that makes any coach look good. You can just roll the ball out there and this kid would still look great. Now when it comes to winning a title that's where the coach comes in. You need that tactician and talent jockey who can direct that collection of talent in the best direction against equal talent. We still have yet to see how Kerr will perform and surely Fish has no chance this year to show how he'd handle such a situation if he was in the same spot as Kerr. Some coaches are great in the regular season, like Woodson, but come up small in the playoffs.

No matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it still a pig..Those are horrible shots...


Yeah, great job missing the point. Kerr has a much easier job and is made to look good simply because of the wealth of talent he has. A kid like Curry took over the game and basically sealed the win. No amount of coaching was needed for that to happen. Fish doesn't have that luxury.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/10/2015  12:18 PM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
I actually think Phil is going the route of the 37 win team model..I think he will sign FAs that fits his system and have young players at the end of the bench...My issue is that it seems like we are banking on fringe/DLeaguers to be these bench players...He says he wants to have continuity...Having 5/6 Dleaguers/fringe NBA players that we are hoping to develop isn't a good thing in my opinion...

If over the course of the next two years he is able to put together a good starting 5..I hope he will look to vet players with maybe one or two young players to make up his bench..My point about the 54 win team is that the supporting role were mostly vet players..


Not sure how this makes sense. The 37 win team model was a core of 3 highly paid overpriced older players. 1 of whom (Amare) was chronically injured when he was signed and played sparingly. A second player (Tyson) was in and out of the lineup due to various ailments/sickness and was malcontent with the situation. The rest of the lineup consisted of an inconsistently bad PG (Felton) who had off the court legal issues and a SG with a lot of talent but who was a major flake on and off the court. The reserves were a combination of Draft pick reaches who had not worked out for the Knicks (Shump & THJ), veteran risks (Kenyon, Prigs, Bargs, Udrih), and a couple of younger guys (Murry, Aldrich, Tyler). The Head Coach had no clear system of play. This model was based on an unsustainable model from the previous season. The 54 win team was more successful due mainly to better production from Chandler, JR and Felton with the added leadership from Kidd. The rest of the bench veterans were not that successful due to injury (Camby for example). Both of these teams had no cap space.

Phil's rebuild model seems to be based on identifying a new core of 3/4 players. Consisting of 1 highly paid veteran (Melo) a 1 High Draft pick (TBD) and several FAs (TBD). The young guys he is evaluating now would seemingly be for inexpensive and cap friendly reserve type roles. The new model seems to be based on better cap usage and younger players for the longer term. Of course until we know more of his offseason moves, it is all just speculation.

The term model refers to the type of team consisting of vet players..Not the exact players and contract situation...Why so literal???

If someone is rebuilding in the San Antonio model, they aren't trying to get Tim Duncan and Tony Parker...

I'm quite aware what the term "model" refers to. You proposed a theory that Phil is modeling his rebuild roster similar to the 37 win team from last year. Since you really provided no factual or concrete references, I broke down that roster and situation to invalidate your theory. That team had a mixture of older guys and some younger guys as reserves. That team had extreme imbalance of cap space to three guys and was therefore forced to try and tweak a roster a certain way. This roster is in a totally different situation and mindset. You and others are trying way to hard to invalidate Phil instead of letting it play out a bit more.


Seems like you are nit picking and lashing out because I expressed concern over some of Phil's moves...The Knicks are 15-63 and Derek Fisher is our head coach...I think my concerns were validated...

Come on man this record is artificially worse than it could be if Melo was healthy and Phil was actually trying to win. Phil decided not to sacrifice any more assets to try and win a few more games. The rebuild is in full swing. As for Fisher any coach would look bad with no talent and any rookie coach is going to have some shaky moments. If you have a great team it makes any coaches job that much easier. I was watching the warriors last night and thinking how no amount of coaching makes Curry able to hit the shots he was hitting last night. Talent is the most important factor in Basketball. Coaching is important but not as important as the talent on the floor.

Completely different topic..But how does Curry get a pass for taking those shots??

The kid is the star of the team and has a green light and deservedly so. No coach would put reigns on Curry. He's the kind of player that makes any coach look good. You can just roll the ball out there and this kid would still look great. Now when it comes to winning a title that's where the coach comes in. You need that tactician and talent jockey who can direct that collection of talent in the best direction against equal talent. We still have yet to see how Kerr will perform and surely Fish has no chance this year to show how he'd handle such a situation if he was in the same spot as Kerr. Some coaches are great in the regular season, like Woodson, but come up small in the playoffs.

No matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it still a pig..Those are horrible shots...


Yeah, great job missing the point. Kerr has a much easier job and is made to look good simply because of the wealth of talent he has. A kid like Curry took over the game and basically sealed the win. No amount of coaching was needed for that to happen. Fish doesn't have that luxury.

You are a winner Nix..I changed to topic to Curry's shot selection and you somehow tried to twist it to Fisher...I replied staying on topic and I'm the one missing the point, classic..

nixluva
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4/10/2015  1:47 PM
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
holfresh wrote:
I actually think Phil is going the route of the 37 win team model..I think he will sign FAs that fits his system and have young players at the end of the bench...My issue is that it seems like we are banking on fringe/DLeaguers to be these bench players...He says he wants to have continuity...Having 5/6 Dleaguers/fringe NBA players that we are hoping to develop isn't a good thing in my opinion...

If over the course of the next two years he is able to put together a good starting 5..I hope he will look to vet players with maybe one or two young players to make up his bench..My point about the 54 win team is that the supporting role were mostly vet players..


Not sure how this makes sense. The 37 win team model was a core of 3 highly paid overpriced older players. 1 of whom (Amare) was chronically injured when he was signed and played sparingly. A second player (Tyson) was in and out of the lineup due to various ailments/sickness and was malcontent with the situation. The rest of the lineup consisted of an inconsistently bad PG (Felton) who had off the court legal issues and a SG with a lot of talent but who was a major flake on and off the court. The reserves were a combination of Draft pick reaches who had not worked out for the Knicks (Shump & THJ), veteran risks (Kenyon, Prigs, Bargs, Udrih), and a couple of younger guys (Murry, Aldrich, Tyler). The Head Coach had no clear system of play. This model was based on an unsustainable model from the previous season. The 54 win team was more successful due mainly to better production from Chandler, JR and Felton with the added leadership from Kidd. The rest of the bench veterans were not that successful due to injury (Camby for example). Both of these teams had no cap space.

Phil's rebuild model seems to be based on identifying a new core of 3/4 players. Consisting of 1 highly paid veteran (Melo) a 1 High Draft pick (TBD) and several FAs (TBD). The young guys he is evaluating now would seemingly be for inexpensive and cap friendly reserve type roles. The new model seems to be based on better cap usage and younger players for the longer term. Of course until we know more of his offseason moves, it is all just speculation.

The term model refers to the type of team consisting of vet players..Not the exact players and contract situation...Why so literal???

If someone is rebuilding in the San Antonio model, they aren't trying to get Tim Duncan and Tony Parker...

I'm quite aware what the term "model" refers to. You proposed a theory that Phil is modeling his rebuild roster similar to the 37 win team from last year. Since you really provided no factual or concrete references, I broke down that roster and situation to invalidate your theory. That team had a mixture of older guys and some younger guys as reserves. That team had extreme imbalance of cap space to three guys and was therefore forced to try and tweak a roster a certain way. This roster is in a totally different situation and mindset. You and others are trying way to hard to invalidate Phil instead of letting it play out a bit more.


Seems like you are nit picking and lashing out because I expressed concern over some of Phil's moves...The Knicks are 15-63 and Derek Fisher is our head coach...I think my concerns were validated...

Come on man this record is artificially worse than it could be if Melo was healthy and Phil was actually trying to win. Phil decided not to sacrifice any more assets to try and win a few more games. The rebuild is in full swing. As for Fisher any coach would look bad with no talent and any rookie coach is going to have some shaky moments. If you have a great team it makes any coaches job that much easier. I was watching the warriors last night and thinking how no amount of coaching makes Curry able to hit the shots he was hitting last night. Talent is the most important factor in Basketball. Coaching is important but not as important as the talent on the floor.

Completely different topic..But how does Curry get a pass for taking those shots??

The kid is the star of the team and has a green light and deservedly so. No coach would put reigns on Curry. He's the kind of player that makes any coach look good. You can just roll the ball out there and this kid would still look great. Now when it comes to winning a title that's where the coach comes in. You need that tactician and talent jockey who can direct that collection of talent in the best direction against equal talent. We still have yet to see how Kerr will perform and surely Fish has no chance this year to show how he'd handle such a situation if he was in the same spot as Kerr. Some coaches are great in the regular season, like Woodson, but come up small in the playoffs.

No matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it still a pig..Those are horrible shots...


Yeah, great job missing the point. Kerr has a much easier job and is made to look good simply because of the wealth of talent he has. A kid like Curry took over the game and basically sealed the win. No amount of coaching was needed for that to happen. Fish doesn't have that luxury.

You are a winner Nix..I changed to topic to Curry's shot selection and you somehow tried to twist it to Fisher...I replied staying on topic and I'm the one missing the point, classic..


I saw what you did and really I think all of it is part of the main point I was making. Great players do what they do and have a freedom earned by great play. It's really not about Kerr's coaching when it comes to the greatness of Curry and in reference to the Knicks and Fish he doesn't have that luxury. The concerns about Fisher would be mitigated to a great degree with the presence of great players. Bad shots from great players who actually make those shots is part of the game and always has been. Kerr has one of those guys in Curry and it makes him look better. Fish doesn't have anyone right now so he's gonna look worse. Neither situation tells you a lot about the abilities of either coach. Kerr has a wealth of talent and Fish has almost no talent. Phil realizes this more than anyone and will be looking to stack as much talent on the roster as he can.
Red
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4/17/2015  3:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/17/2015  3:48 PM
I haven't checked in in awhile. Been following another ex Providence player, Bryce Cotton, and how he's performed in Utah. Looks like a happier ending, at least short term, then Ledo.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2015/04/17/ricky-ledo-knicks/25690361/

NEW YORK – With Madison Square Garden nearly empty after a recent game, Ricardo Carrasco hung around the arena speaking with his son, Ricky Ledo, a New York Knicks guard who only scored two points in 16 minutes in the team's loss to the Milwaukee Bucks. The next night, Ledo didn't play at all against the Orlando Magic.

Still, for Ledo, simply being in the NBA is an accomplishment. He's now determined to stick around and have a long career, which he understands is harder than he envisioned when he entered the 2013 NBA draft having played for four high schools and appeared in no college games.

The Knicks signed Ledo to the first of two consecutive, 10-day contracts on March 19, one month after the Dallas Mavericks released him. When Ledo scored in double figures four times in a five-game stretch, the Knicks agreed to terms to keep him for the rest of this season, which ends on Wednesday.


After that, his future remains murky. Ledo is hoping to repair what his father calls an unfair reputation as a talented but troubled player.

"The thing that gets me upset sometimes is he gets a bad rep," Carrasco told USA TODAY Sports. "He's not a bad kid. He's never been in trouble. He's never been arrested…He grew up in a loving environment. It gets me upset when people talk about a broken home."

Ledo, 22, was raised in a tough neighborhood and lived with his grandparents, Ada and Julio Carrasco, in Providence, Rhode Island. Julio worked for the local school department, while Ada worked for a financial services firm. They were strict with their grandson, who showed promise in multiple sports.

Ledo was known more as a football star when he enrolled at Bishop Hendricken, an all-boys Catholic high school in Rhode Island. But after he scored 31 points and led Hendricken to its sixth consecutive state championship as a sophomore in 2009, he began attracting more attention for his basketball skills. He never lacked for confidence.


"He's very competitive, almost to a ****iness," Carrasco said. "Since he was a little kid, he walked into the gym and thought he could beat Kobe Bryant. He really thought he could."

During the next three years, Ledo spent time at three New England prep schools and became a national recruit. He signed with Providence College and expected to team with McDonald's All-American point guard Kris Dunn. He also looked forward to playing for Friars coach and fellow Providence native Ed Cooley.

Ledo's dreams of excelling in front of his hometown fans were dashed when the NCAA declared him academically ineligible as a freshman. He attended classes and practiced, but he couldn't compete in games.

"That was the toughest year of my life," Ledo said.

Instead of playing for the Friars the next season, Ledo entered the NBA draft. The Bucks selected him in the second round and traded him to the Mavericks. His Dallas contract included more than $1.3 million in guaranteed money during the first two seasons.

Last month, the New York Post reported Ledo had a dispute with his former agent, Seth Cohen, about money he owed Cohen. The newspaper said the NBA Players Association sided with Cohen and told Ledo to pay him.

In two seasons with Dallas, Ledo only appeared in 16 games for a total of 44 minutes. He spent most of his time with the team's NBA Development League affiliate in Frisco, Texas. This season, he averaged 15.1 points and 4.2 assists per game and shot 44.6 percent from the floor and 28.8 percent on three-pointers for Frisco before the Mavericks waived him on Feb. 18.


Ledo was in limbo for a month until the Knicks called.

"It's definitely been tough because you get out of a rhythm," Ledo said. "It's been difficult, but I'm fighting through it. I'm doing better each game."

With the Knicks, Ledo has shown hints of his potential, most notably when he scored a career-high 21 points with 9 rebounds against the Washington Wizards on April 3. He made 8 of 27 shots and scored 19 points in the Knicks final six games.

"He's one of the most talented basketball players I've seen in a while," said Bucks point guard Michael Carter-Williams, who played with Ledo for a year at St. Andrew's high school in Rhode Island. "I think it's been tough on him just because he hasn't got a chance in the NBA, really. He didn't get a chance to play in college. I think (the Knicks) see a little bit of his talent, but I think as time goes, you'll see a lot more."

Ledo and Carter-Williams plan on working out together this summer, just like they have for the past few years. But unlike Carter-Williams, Ledo's NBA future is uncertain. He needs to get in better shape, improve his defense and learn New York's triangle offense to remain with the organization.

The Knicks have an option to sign him for next season, but his reduced role in the past week means he could be looking to join another team soon. The uncertainty doesn't bother Ledo.

"It lights a flame under Rick," Carrasco said. "He know he's gotta compete. He's never been scared of competing. He'll be all right."
------------------------------------------------------

I guess it ain't over till the fat lady sings. He may yet play in this league. Carter-Williams may be right. But I don't know anymore, and don't believe he'll be with the Knicks next year....

Knicks1969
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4/17/2015  4:18 PM
I don't see anything about this kid's game that I like.
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
nixluva
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4/17/2015  4:33 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:I don't see anything about this kid's game that I like.

I'd like to see him get on a real conditioning program and come to Summer League. He has talent but he really needs work on his strength and conditioning. I see no problem with him as a project. He's cheap and has potential. You can't make too much of what we saw in his short stint with the Knicks. I recall Gerald Green looked lost for much of his early career and is now a much better player. Sometimes these kids get sidetracked in their development by not getting with a good college basketball program.

Finestrg
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4/17/2015  5:16 PM
I like Ledo but he's a bigger project then I first thought. Scotty Hopson might be a better player to move forward with over Ledo at the 2. You figure we'll resign Shved (I still consider Alexey a 2 that can make plays and handle the ball, not a true 1 -- I'd like to see us find a legit PG upgrade somewhere, whether this system requires it or not, I bet we keep THJ, then we'll have one more spot left for a big guard (or maybe we go Shved, Ledo and have a spot open if we do trade THJ). Hopson vs. Ledo: Scotty's just as big, a better athlete, equally skilled with the ball (more so imo), can also make plays for others, has that same scorer's mentality yet possesses a much more advanced game/skill set. Hopson was VERY IMPRESSIVE in the DL this year. I'd love to take a good look at Hopson up close on our Vegas SL team. I think Hopson's a better talent than THJ to be honest..
CrushAlot
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4/17/2015  10:43 PM
Red wrote:I haven't checked in in awhile. Been following another ex Providence player, Bryce Cotton, and how he's performed in Utah. Looks like a happier ending, at least short term, then Ledo.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2015/04/17/ricky-ledo-knicks/25690361/

NEW YORK – With Madison Square Garden nearly empty after a recent game, Ricardo Carrasco hung around the arena speaking with his son, Ricky Ledo, a New York Knicks guard who only scored two points in 16 minutes in the team's loss to the Milwaukee Bucks. The next night, Ledo didn't play at all against the Orlando Magic.

Still, for Ledo, simply being in the NBA is an accomplishment. He's now determined to stick around and have a long career, which he understands is harder than he envisioned when he entered the 2013 NBA draft having played for four high schools and appeared in no college games.

The Knicks signed Ledo to the first of two consecutive, 10-day contracts on March 19, one month after the Dallas Mavericks released him. When Ledo scored in double figures four times in a five-game stretch, the Knicks agreed to terms to keep him for the rest of this season, which ends on Wednesday.


After that, his future remains murky. Ledo is hoping to repair what his father calls an unfair reputation as a talented but troubled player.

"The thing that gets me upset sometimes is he gets a bad rep," Carrasco told USA TODAY Sports. "He's not a bad kid. He's never been in trouble. He's never been arrested…He grew up in a loving environment. It gets me upset when people talk about a broken home."

Ledo, 22, was raised in a tough neighborhood and lived with his grandparents, Ada and Julio Carrasco, in Providence, Rhode Island. Julio worked for the local school department, while Ada worked for a financial services firm. They were strict with their grandson, who showed promise in multiple sports.

Ledo was known more as a football star when he enrolled at Bishop Hendricken, an all-boys Catholic high school in Rhode Island. But after he scored 31 points and led Hendricken to its sixth consecutive state championship as a sophomore in 2009, he began attracting more attention for his basketball skills. He never lacked for confidence.


"He's very competitive, almost to a ****iness," Carrasco said. "Since he was a little kid, he walked into the gym and thought he could beat Kobe Bryant. He really thought he could."

During the next three years, Ledo spent time at three New England prep schools and became a national recruit. He signed with Providence College and expected to team with McDonald's All-American point guard Kris Dunn. He also looked forward to playing for Friars coach and fellow Providence native Ed Cooley.

Ledo's dreams of excelling in front of his hometown fans were dashed when the NCAA declared him academically ineligible as a freshman. He attended classes and practiced, but he couldn't compete in games.

"That was the toughest year of my life," Ledo said.

Instead of playing for the Friars the next season, Ledo entered the NBA draft. The Bucks selected him in the second round and traded him to the Mavericks. His Dallas contract included more than $1.3 million in guaranteed money during the first two seasons.

Last month, the New York Post reported Ledo had a dispute with his former agent, Seth Cohen, about money he owed Cohen. The newspaper said the NBA Players Association sided with Cohen and told Ledo to pay him.

In two seasons with Dallas, Ledo only appeared in 16 games for a total of 44 minutes. He spent most of his time with the team's NBA Development League affiliate in Frisco, Texas. This season, he averaged 15.1 points and 4.2 assists per game and shot 44.6 percent from the floor and 28.8 percent on three-pointers for Frisco before the Mavericks waived him on Feb. 18.


Ledo was in limbo for a month until the Knicks called.

"It's definitely been tough because you get out of a rhythm," Ledo said. "It's been difficult, but I'm fighting through it. I'm doing better each game."

With the Knicks, Ledo has shown hints of his potential, most notably when he scored a career-high 21 points with 9 rebounds against the Washington Wizards on April 3. He made 8 of 27 shots and scored 19 points in the Knicks final six games.

"He's one of the most talented basketball players I've seen in a while," said Bucks point guard Michael Carter-Williams, who played with Ledo for a year at St. Andrew's high school in Rhode Island. "I think it's been tough on him just because he hasn't got a chance in the NBA, really. He didn't get a chance to play in college. I think (the Knicks) see a little bit of his talent, but I think as time goes, you'll see a lot more."

Ledo and Carter-Williams plan on working out together this summer, just like they have for the past few years. But unlike Carter-Williams, Ledo's NBA future is uncertain. He needs to get in better shape, improve his defense and learn New York's triangle offense to remain with the organization.

The Knicks have an option to sign him for next season, but his reduced role in the past week means he could be looking to join another team soon. The uncertainty doesn't bother Ledo.

"It lights a flame under Rick," Carrasco said. "He know he's gotta compete. He's never been scared of competing. He'll be all right."
------------------------------------------------------

I guess it ain't over till the fat lady sings. He may yet play in this league. Carter-Williams may be right. But I don't know anymore, and don't believe he'll be with the Knicks next year....


Great article Red. Thanks for posting it. Hope he makes it somewhere. It would be great if it was with the Knicks but it sounds like he just needs a break.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
WaltLongmire
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4/18/2015  1:29 AM
nixluva wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:I don't see anything about this kid's game that I like.

I'd like to see him get on a real conditioning program and come to Summer League. He has talent but he really needs work on his strength and conditioning. I see no problem with him as a project. He's cheap and has potential. You can't make too much of what we saw in his short stint with the Knicks. I recall Gerald Green looked lost for much of his early career and is now a much better player. Sometimes these kids get sidetracked in their development by not getting with a good college basketball program.


More the merrier in SL and training camp... but I did not see enough from him to give him any guarantees.

Has to simplify his game- I don't think you have to do all the dribbling he tried to do at times in order to be successful in this offense. He also has to be more consistent on defense.

He had enough decent moments to give him some kind of chance with the team- hopefully he makes enough changes in his game to prove something in SL if he is brought back for a look.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
RonRon
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4/18/2015  2:45 AM
He is a undersized SF, with a bit of Durant in him without that length and handle/athleticism/speed/quickness needed
Seems to either need a Lebron like talent to create for him and will go through struggles if given opportunity to learn and fail, then if he can get it in the process could be a very good scorer

Right now seems to be need to be able to shoot it a lot and have the ball in his hands, as he struggles to play off the ball and in limited PT

callmened
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4/18/2015  6:08 AM
keep in mind, what we saw was hero ball from ledo in garbage bball while playing with the immortal barry larkin jr. it was an audition for showing his scoring skills...i dont blame him
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
Ricky Ledo

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