cooch2584 wrote:

tkf wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

tkf wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

tkf wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

tkf wrote:I am going to help you out here, and you can scream troll all you want... the wolf crying is over..

Nah, I'll just state that you don't know and/or understand math to well...

tkf wrote:in order for carmelo to finish top 5 all time in scoring, he has to at least get to where kobe is.. Kobe is #5 at 30K, so assuming that he passes wilt, that will push wilt to #5 at 31k..

carmelo is at 16k, it took him 10 seasons to get there...

This is where you're wrong. On two accounts. A.) He's currently at 16,483 points (nice job trying to erase over 450 points) and B.) It hasn't taken him 10 seasons to get here. He's yet to complete his 10th season and lets not forget, last year was a shortened season. You're trying to put Carmelo at 16,000 after 10 seasons but when in reality he's at 16,483 points during his 10th NBA season with another 60 games remaining before you can state that he's completed 10 NBA seasons.

During his 10th NBA season he's currently averaging 27.9 points per game (here in 2012-2013). If Melo keeps up his rate of 27.9 points per game during our next 60 games? That'll be another 1,674 points. Add a potential 1,674 points to his already 16,483 points and that would put Melo at 18,157 points heading into his 11th NBA season ala after his 10th year. Not "16,000". Nice job trying to shave off over 2,000 points.

Let's not forget, if not for a shortened season last year, Melo would have more total points as of today.

tkf wrote:he is avg about 1800pts per year, to get to 30k he will need to do that for the next 8 years, do you really think that is going to happen? carmelo is 28, do you think he is going to do that for 8 years until he is 36, counting in aging, declining game, and injuries? really?

You are wrong on your math yet again. If he continues his current season average for the rest of the season, that'll put Melo at a total of 18,157 points after 10 NBA seasons. An average of 1,815.7 points per season. In order to reach Wilt's 31,419 career points Melo would (then) only need another 13,262 points in order to tie Wilt for 5th all-time.

So how you came up with Melo needing 1,800 points per year, for 8 years, in order to pass Wilt is beyond me. What's 1,800 times 8? The answer would be 14,400 points. Now add 14,400 points to Melo's potential 18,157 points (after this season) and you'll come up with 32,557. That passes Wilt by 1,138 points.

If Melo's at 18,157 points after this season, he'll then need 13,262 points in order to tie Wilt. Like it or not, but as of right now; Melo's on pace to finish top 5 all-time (as long as he's able to stay healthy). Kobe is currently in his 17th NBA season and averaging 29.3 points per game this season after averaging 27.9 last year and 25.3 points per game the year before.

tkf wrote:like it or not, you are not being realistic or reasonable...can it happen? hey anything can happen, but you are making it out to be sure fire... I am sure many thought the same thing about T-mac, it just didn't happen... so before you go off with stating things as fact, and adding "like it or not".. maybe you need to step back, take a breath, take off the rose colored glasses and hold an adult debate.... that is how you debate... like it or not...

ok, feel free now to yell troll and baiting....

Trolling and baiting? Nah, this time it's just sounding very foolish and/or someone who has a lack of overall knowledge in regards to the topic at hand. You're using T-Mac as an example? Nice to know because the last time I checked McGrady played 15 NBA seasons and only put up 18,381 points. Carmelo could be at 18,157 after 10 seasons when T-Mac could only put up 18,381 after 15 NBA seasons. Now I'm using your own example on how great of a scorer Melo has always been. Want another example? McGrady was only at 15,317 points after his 10th NBA season.

And please, lets not use T.Mac as an example of "how" and/or "why" Melo will get hurt from here on out despite the fact that Melo himself has never missed anything more than 17 games during a single season. T-Mac was injured his entire career. Nice example though (being sarcastic). A matter of fact, Melo has only missed a total of 63 NBA games heading into this season. An average of only 7 games missed per season.

Nice try though.

I rounded on both ends, you see I used 31k and 16k, or are you going to tell me that wilt is exactly at 31k

If Melo's at 18,157 points after this season, he'll then need 13,262 points in order to tie Wilt. Like it or not, but as of right now; Melo's on pace to finish top 5 all-time (as long as he's able to stay healthy). Kobe is currently in his 17th NBA season and averaging 29.3 points per game this season after averaging 27.9 last year and 25.3 points per game the year before.

you can nitpick the numbers.. 1800 or 1815.333.333.333.333 or whatever.. if he needs 13k after this season, and again you are assuming he keeps the same pace... that is 7.23 years to get 13k points.. he will be 36 years old.. do you really expect that?

McGrady was only at 15,317 points after his 10th NBA season.

T-macs first 3 years in toronto were off the bench.. why not compare apples to apples.. and had his knees not betrayed him, he would have been on pace to move up the list quickly.. I am sure there was some big T-mac fan trying to extrapolate out his numbers and how he would become all time scorer until T-mac's knees said otherwise...

And please, lets not use T.Mac as an example of "how" and/or "why" Melo will get hurt from here on out despite the fact that Melo himself has never missed anything more than 17 games during a single season. T-Mac was injured his entire career

I am just explaining to you how it is not a certainly, a lot of things have to go right... classic example last night.. carmleo goes down had it been a knee, then what? you are trying to tell me that 16k points is going to be a sure thing... dude, he will be way past his prime trying to average 25+ppg in order to get into the top 5... that is not a given and no realistic...

tkf, go back to the drawing board.You were banned from realgm for being a troll. And this is what you are.ACCEPT YOUR DESTINY LUKE LOL

you know not of what you speak.. banned? LOL. I left..

you are not built for this cooch...

seriously.. maybe some more time off will help..

Yea you left,RIGHT lol

cooch try debating..

refute my points with facts

bring something to the conversation

if name calling and talking about realgm is what you want..

I don't want to bother

what does this accomplish?

or is this all you have?

tkf,anyone can twist stats the way you do. I just happen to have a life and right now my life is enjoying Knicks games and looking forward to us winning The Chip. You live in your stat filled bubble and comment on everything that was done wrong in getting Melo. I see the glass as half full and you see it as half empty. I wont be commenting with you anymore.

can't twist stats, but I welcome you to show me where I have done that..

I wont be commenting with you anymore.

cooch, you never really were.....

Don't get me wrong Melo's bringing it, but it's quite obvious he's not per say making everyone better, because they play well "IN SPITE OF HIM".

So his MVP considerations will be based on a few particulars and not a broad scope of greatness

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:IS this what you guys did in RealGM? At the end of the day it did not work there, so why would it here?

nalod I think I am entitled to have an opinion, I am not sure why every poster feel they need to change my mind.. maybe I need to just stop responding to people period...

i'm done..

Ill believe that when I see it.

Nalod wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:IS this what you guys did in RealGM? At the end of the day it did not work there, so why would it here?

nalod I think I am entitled to have an opinion, I am not sure why every poster feel they need to change my mind.. maybe I need to just stop responding to people period...

i'm done..

Not sure why you are trying to do the same?

I think your opinion would be respected if you just left it.

Im an orthodox anti Starphucher but the reality is:

1. Its NY, no sure the fan base cannot be patient.

2. Rebuiding from scratch will be a thing of the past. NFL has a hard cap and a team can go from Worst to first in two years. New CBA will speed up process

3. Both teams got what they wanted from the trade. Melo is better than any one player and Denver got a mix of players, picks, cap space/Flex to make changes and reboot. They are a work in progress with a different time schedule than ours. Knick Homers will see them as "Losing". You won't change their minds.

4. Starphuchs can work. Lakers with Malone and Payton failed. Boston's version worked. Miami with the superfriends worked. Ours might. Not all Starphuchs are created equal. We failed historically many times by starphuching.

Just because the team does not suite my roster aquisition preference is not a strong reason to repel from any form of social interaction with other fans. If this place does not suite you or you can function within then I guess the logical process is continue to argue against the majority or leave.

Melo has demonstrated increased maturity in his time here and his game is more team oriented than in the past.

I would offer an olive branch to both of you and suggest you just look at it as:

1. Denver Diva Melo put up big points, had documented success how ever you want to see it, and was a bit immature.

2. Knick You Tube Melo trade caused a talent drain for one and one half seasons and just this year was able to fill the roster with depth. Melo and MDA did not get along for mutual reasons.

3. Knicks You Tube Melo is more mature on and off the court and has elevated this year his over his first 100 or so games here.

Both of you refrain from typing the names of Gallo, Linn, MDA and I think everyone will be happy and move on.

I think both of you make valid arguements but neither is 100% Correct. If you blend them togther you'll see you both kind of right and wrong at the same time.

Just a suggestion.

nalod, i am not in the business to change anyone's mind, the bigger problem is most have a problem with how i feel about melo.. I don't have a problem with everyone thinking he is great, feel what you want, but when I see opinion trying to be passed off as fact, I will say something.. doesn't matter who it is..

gunsnewing wrote:There is nothing wrong with that TKF. Just like when people try to pass off that the Knicks would be better with Gallo and company vs melo is also an opinion not fact. Thats where arguments go down hill when you are arguing the past vs the present. Right now the present is pretty damn good if you are a Knicks fan. Just saying Melo won't win MVP and presenting facts doesn't make you a hater. Agendas is what gets people in trouble

HONESTLY, who is arguing anything now guns.. look at the thread.. they all bait..

do you see myself, or dk, or fish, or 3g starting threads after knick losses? do you see us starting threads when felton struggles saying we wish we had lin? do we start threads about gallo? chandler?

NO.. usually our names or mentioned, attacked and baited into silly discussions.. it happens over and over and over again. only when we come to rightfully defend our names do we get called, trolls, baiters, and haters...

even in the melo MVP thread, each one of us have stated why we feel he won't win MVP.. have any of our reasons been ridiculous? over the top? unreasonable? NO.... actually most of the time, I am asking NY fans to reason, but most of them are intoxicated with the knicks playing well that they lose all perspective.. it is fine to enjoy the winning but it should not kill your ability to reason..

guns: I asked a simple question.. if lebron and durant were on the knicks, would knick fans honestly feel carmelo has a chance at MVP,at this point?

I asked a poster this.. he never responded..

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:There is nothing wrong with that TKF. Just like when people try to pass off that the Knicks would be better with Gallo and company vs melo is also an opinion not fact. Thats where arguments go down hill when you are arguing the past vs the present. Right now the present is pretty damn good if you are a Knicks fan. Just saying Melo won't win MVP and presenting facts doesn't make you a hater. Agendas is what gets people in trouble

HONESTLY, who is arguing anything now guns.. look at the thread.. they all bait..

do you see myself, or dk, or fish, or 3g starting threads after knick losses? do you see us starting threads when felton struggles saying we wish we had lin? do we start threads about gallo? chandler?

NO.. usually our names or mentioned, attacked and baited into silly discussions.. it happens over and over and over again. only when we come to rightfully defend our names do we get called, trolls, baiters, and haters...

even in the melo MVP thread, each one of us have stated why we feel he won't win MVP.. have any of our reasons been ridiculous? over the top? unreasonable? NO.... actually most of the time, I am asking NY fans to reason, but most of them are intoxicated with the knicks playing well that they lose all perspective.. it is fine to enjoy the winning but it should not kill your ability to reason..

guns: I asked a simple question.. if lebron and durant were on the knicks, would knick fans honestly feel carmelo has a chance at MVP,at this point?

I asked a poster this.. he never responded..

TK, you know I've had your back so, can I make a suggestion. The specific topic of discussion, let it go. I know if I was in your shoes I'd be feeling a bit alienated by now. They aren't going to change your mind but, recognize that people don't want to see other people go against the consensus.

I was talking about this on the job yesterday. People can't seem to agree to disagree anymore You either have to conform or your considered a troll or looked down upon. I was in a similar situation on the realgm board and, as a result, I no longer post there.

DurzoBlint wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:There is nothing wrong with that TKF. Just like when people try to pass off that the Knicks would be better with Gallo and company vs melo is also an opinion not fact. Thats where arguments go down hill when you are arguing the past vs the present. Right now the present is pretty damn good if you are a Knicks fan. Just saying Melo won't win MVP and presenting facts doesn't make you a hater. Agendas is what gets people in trouble

HONESTLY, who is arguing anything now guns.. look at the thread.. they all bait..

do you see myself, or dk, or fish, or 3g starting threads after knick losses? do you see us starting threads when felton struggles saying we wish we had lin? do we start threads about gallo? chandler?

NO.. usually our names or mentioned, attacked and baited into silly discussions.. it happens over and over and over again. only when we come to rightfully defend our names do we get called, trolls, baiters, and haters...

even in the melo MVP thread, each one of us have stated why we feel he won't win MVP.. have any of our reasons been ridiculous? over the top? unreasonable? NO.... actually most of the time, I am asking NY fans to reason, but most of them are intoxicated with the knicks playing well that they lose all perspective.. it is fine to enjoy the winning but it should not kill your ability to reason..

guns: I asked a simple question.. if lebron and durant were on the knicks, would knick fans honestly feel carmelo has a chance at MVP,at this point?

I asked a poster this.. he never responded..

TK, you know I've had your back so, can I make a suggestion. The specific topic of discussion, let it go. I know if I was in your shoes I'd be feeling a bit alienated by now. They aren't going to change your mind but, recognize that people don't want to see other people go against the consensus.

I was talking about this on the job yesterday. People can't seem to agree to disagree anymore You either have to conform or your considered a troll or looked down upon. I was in a similar situation on the realgm board and, as a result, I no longer post there.

and that is sad, because I am no longer post there because I tried to defend the position of posters like yourself... but why should I go along with the masses if I don't always agree.... so you are saying compromise my integrity so I won't be alienated? I can't go with that.. I am a knick fan, I don't want anyone telling me how to root for my team( not saying you are), but I sure don't ever want to suggest how people should root for the knicks...

thanks for the advice bro...

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:There is nothing wrong with that TKF. Just like when people try to pass off that the Knicks would be better with Gallo and company vs melo is also an opinion not fact. Thats where arguments go down hill when you are arguing the past vs the present. Right now the present is pretty damn good if you are a Knicks fan. Just saying Melo won't win MVP and presenting facts doesn't make you a hater. Agendas is what gets people in trouble

HONESTLY, who is arguing anything now guns.. look at the thread.. they all bait..

do you see myself, or dk, or fish, or 3g starting threads after knick losses? do you see us starting threads when felton struggles saying we wish we had lin? do we start threads about gallo? chandler?

NO.. usually our names or mentioned, attacked and baited into silly discussions.. it happens over and over and over again. only when we come to rightfully defend our names do we get called, trolls, baiters, and haters...

even in the melo MVP thread, each one of us have stated why we feel he won't win MVP.. have any of our reasons been ridiculous? over the top? unreasonable? NO.... actually most of the time, I am asking NY fans to reason, but most of them are intoxicated with the knicks playing well that they lose all perspective.. it is fine to enjoy the winning but it should not kill your ability to reason..

guns: I asked a simple question.. if lebron and durant were on the knicks, would knick fans honestly feel carmelo has a chance at MVP,at this point?

I asked a poster this.. he never responded..

You are right. I don't have an answer for the baiting

why is it ok, to smash amare, or any of the other players? I thought we were knick fans.. it seems the need for this fan base to have have a hero has surpassed everything.. even logic at times....

I enjoyed the jason kidd thread.. but look how little activity it gets? do we even talk about this teams flaws anymore? how to improve them? or do we just go 17-5 all is well and if you say otherwise you are a carmelo hater?

there is room for other discussion and we don't have to have carmelo shoved down our throats... there are so many things going on with the knicks.... we don't have to trash dantoni, lin, gallo, etc...they have no impact now on the knicks.. and even when guys like us enjoy watching them do well, that doesn't mean we want the knicks to fail..