CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Teams do trade for and sign superstars, you know? If we'd been building right from the start, there's no reason why we wouldn't have been able to pull off any trades or signings to get at least one of Dwight, Lebron, Wade, Howard, or Paul.

and to continue the list and/or

Deron/Harden/Bynum/Josh Smith/Iggy/K-Mart/Bogut/Mayo/Beasley/Lowry/Johnson/Pau/Jefferson/Milsap

All of these guys were gettable or will be gettable in the very immediate future. I'm not saying all of these players would have been an attractive option but nevertheless look at all the potential combination of players.

None of those players you just listed give us a better chance to win a championship over Melo. That's just ridiculous. Some of those names are even borderline insulting to say in the same breath as Melo. Beasley, K-Mart, Iggy??? wow. Pass what you smoking.

Via trade and/or cap space option it wouldn't be a 1 to 1 comparison. It would be a combination comparison to Melo such as....

Josh Smith and Mayo>>>>>>>>>Melo

Harden and Lowry>>>>>>>Melo

Bynum and Beasley>>>>>>>Melo

Iggy and Bogut>>>>>>>Melo

Not to mention whatever else is acquired or made available post transactions

If that's the case then you have to do that on Melo's end too. so isn't Melo & Chandler since the Melo trade included Billups which turned into chandler.

Melo and Chandler >>>> Josh Smith/Mayo
Melo and Chandler >>> Harden/Lowry
Melo and Chandler >>Bynum/Beasley
Melo and Chandler >>> Iggy/Bogut

Even if you argue that anyone of those combinations are better then Melo and Chandler it's not by enough to even warrant any backlash.

Only in one of your comparisons does it come close in a 2 for 2 comparison and even then there's financial flexibility left over in the very last

You don't want me to break down salary for the pairs I have listed. Really you don't. Either understand the full scope of basketball and structuring a team together or don't

LOL are you a undercover NBA GM or something. you a couch fan just like me. Don't insult my intelligence. At the end of the day it's all opinions. In my opinion I wouldn't be happy with any of those other combinations you listed. You started the comparisons not me. When I pointed out the flaw in your initial 2 to 1 comparison you want to break down salaries now.

I'm a fan I don't care what they spend as long as the product is good on the floor. and right now it's a good product. Let the owners worry about salaries.

You want to tell me after all the salary dumping and awful seasons we had to endure if we had a final product of Iggy & Bogut that would be a success?? Josh Smith & Mayo?? Bynum & BEASLEY?? BEASLEY??? come on man. don't preach to me about understanding the full scope of structuring a team when you actually would type out the name Beasley.

My argument has been consistent centered around flexibility....financial flexibility is part of it. Sorry you can't grasp this.

Its funny because you talk about fables and fairy tales and suggest that a gm shouldn't pursue a star because other stars might become available. The Melo trade turned into Melo and Tyson. Amare did break down and doctors have said 5 years for micro fracture surgery so maybe he doesn't injure his back while D'Ant is riding him like Secretariat but his knee had a time line and it did give out. Gallo is a china doll. He is prepetually injured. He also isn't as good as most of his young teammates. Gm's and coaches are supposed to win especially in a big market like NY. Passing up stars in hopes that an up and comer or under achiever will sign for less is fine for fans to speculate about but doesn't translate well if you are supposed to be doing a job. Jackie Paper stopped believing in Puff. Maybe, maybe there is more to this gm game then you are seeing.

I was never not of the mindset Gallo/Chandler/Moz/AR couldn't be traded but I wanted low risk high reward type of trades always leaving room for flexibility.

This team since acquiring Melo and Chandler have been nothing remarkably better than the team prior to. If you factor coaching change and no constant rumor of trades then who knows.

I do not want to shrink a team's competitive life cycle to a 2yr window, while capping the heck out of it, and throwing away all assets.

Okay you guys hated Gallo to no end, guess he wasn't a major favorite of mine, I had him in the mix of many trades. Here's the thing we knew he had value in this league and he always had room to grow as a player. Therefore while we maintained our level of overall improved team play in comparison to prior yrs maybe in time he improves his league value. Yes he's been brittle as has Chandler but if you put them on the market now considering all of their injury history I'd wager they'd bring back more to a team than say Amar'e right now.

My examples of player combinations were simply examples they weren't absolutes.

But yes I'd take Josh Smith @ $13mil and O.J. Mayo @ $4mil over $20mil of Carmelo all day every day 100000000 out of 1. Because $17mil for 2 players is better than $20mil for 1 player. If Melo was on the market today isn't this the package he pretty much gets traded for?

For the record I'd take $13mil of Josh Smith and $4mil of O.J. Mayo over $10mil of Gallo and $6mil of Chandler and $3mil of Moz....because the other package is cheaper and probably better in talent.

oh and I'm keeping my picks in the process

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Teams do trade for and sign superstars, you know? If we'd been building right from the start, there's no reason why we wouldn't have been able to pull off any trades or signings to get at least one of Dwight, Lebron, Wade, Howard, or Paul.

and to continue the list and/or

Deron/Harden/Bynum/Josh Smith/Iggy/K-Mart/Bogut/Mayo/Beasley/Lowry/Johnson/Pau/Jefferson/Milsap

All of these guys were gettable or will be gettable in the very immediate future. I'm not saying all of these players would have been an attractive option but nevertheless look at all the potential combination of players.

None of those players you just listed give us a better chance to win a championship over Melo. That's just ridiculous. Some of those names are even borderline insulting to say in the same breath as Melo. Beasley, K-Mart, Iggy??? wow. Pass what you smoking.

Via trade and/or cap space option it wouldn't be a 1 to 1 comparison. It would be a combination comparison to Melo such as....

Josh Smith and Mayo>>>>>>>>>Melo

Harden and Lowry>>>>>>>Melo

Bynum and Beasley>>>>>>>Melo

Iggy and Bogut>>>>>>>Melo

Not to mention whatever else is acquired or made available post transactions

If that's the case then you have to do that on Melo's end too. so isn't Melo & Chandler since the Melo trade included Billups which turned into chandler.

Melo and Chandler >>>> Josh Smith/Mayo
Melo and Chandler >>> Harden/Lowry
Melo and Chandler >>Bynum/Beasley
Melo and Chandler >>> Iggy/Bogut

Even if you argue that anyone of those combinations are better then Melo and Chandler it's not by enough to even warrant any backlash.

Only in one of your comparisons does it come close in a 2 for 2 comparison and even then there's financial flexibility left over in the very last

You don't want me to break down salary for the pairs I have listed. Really you don't. Either understand the full scope of basketball and structuring a team together or don't

LOL are you a undercover NBA GM or something. you a couch fan just like me. Don't insult my intelligence. At the end of the day it's all opinions. In my opinion I wouldn't be happy with any of those other combinations you listed. You started the comparisons not me. When I pointed out the flaw in your initial 2 to 1 comparison you want to break down salaries now.

I'm a fan I don't care what they spend as long as the product is good on the floor. and right now it's a good product. Let the owners worry about salaries.

You want to tell me after all the salary dumping and awful seasons we had to endure if we had a final product of Iggy & Bogut that would be a success?? Josh Smith & Mayo?? Bynum & BEASLEY?? BEASLEY??? come on man. don't preach to me about understanding the full scope of structuring a team when you actually would type out the name Beasley.

My argument has been consistent centered around flexibility....financial flexibility is part of it. Sorry you can't grasp this.

Its funny because you talk about fables and fairy tales and suggest that a gm shouldn't pursue a star because other stars might become available. The Melo trade turned into Melo and Tyson. Amare did break down and doctors have said 5 years for micro fracture surgery so maybe he doesn't injure his back while D'Ant is riding him like Secretariat but his knee had a time line and it did give out. Gallo is a china doll. He is prepetually injured. He also isn't as good as most of his young teammates. Gm's and coaches are supposed to win especially in a big market like NY. Passing up stars in hopes that an up and comer or under achiever will sign for less is fine for fans to speculate about but doesn't translate well if you are supposed to be doing a job. Jackie Paper stopped believing in Puff. Maybe, maybe there is more to this gm game then you are seeing.

the point is who you pursue.. Knicks had no business going after carmelo.. not at that cost.. that is the problem.. You see him as a star, some of us don't, hence the reason for these types of arguments...no matter how much you try to down guys like gallo, it only weakens your argument.. It is a complete fail to try to justify a move by needlessly and unjustifiably trying to down another player...

The Job of a GM in any market, large or small is to make the best move for his team, in every area, and that includes financial, and protecting the teams assets...

here is the flaw in your argument..

He is prepetually injured. He also isn't as good as most of his young teammates.

and carmelo isn't as good as most of the other max players in the league....

see how easy that is...

the key is, it cost us nothing keeping gallo.. it cost us a lot acquiring carmelo..

This is where my whole issue has always been. At all costs. What does that mean? We didn't give away any future stars, no lottery picks, nothing outside of solid role players. This is just a classic case of people overrating that collection of assets because they were young players with reasonable upside. The league as a whole did not view that group of players as anything to write home about. Neither did Denver, thus the reason they kept working to complete a deal with the Nets prior to finally giving in, as well as anyone else who was willing to offer something without a promise from Anthony. There were teams out there putting out better packages than ours. Nets had better young players and lottery picks. We had neither. Anthony strong-armed his way here and that was the only reason we have him. I value Anthony the same way NBA teams do. The Knicks had one of the worst packages of players and assets to offer, and got it done because that's what Melo wanted.

first of all, I said at that cost.. not at all cost... but again, you felt we gave away solid role players.. well that is a broad label... is iggy a solid role player? is many? what is a solid role player? if you think we gave away a bunch of ronnie brewers and steve novaks, then I say you are wrong here....

I don't care what the nets had, and for the record how are the players the nets traded away doing? you see it is very evident you only intend to downplay what the knicks traded away.... favors is not starting for the jazz although he has upside, but so does gallo and chandler.... and devin harris is pretty much on his way to being a journeyman...

The Knicks had one of the worst packages of players and assets to offer, and got it done because that's what Melo wanted.

3G4G wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Teams do trade for and sign superstars, you know? If we'd been building right from the start, there's no reason why we wouldn't have been able to pull off any trades or signings to get at least one of Dwight, Lebron, Wade, Howard, or Paul.

and to continue the list and/or

Deron/Harden/Bynum/Josh Smith/Iggy/K-Mart/Bogut/Mayo/Beasley/Lowry/Johnson/Pau/Jefferson/Milsap

All of these guys were gettable or will be gettable in the very immediate future. I'm not saying all of these players would have been an attractive option but nevertheless look at all the potential combination of players.

None of those players you just listed give us a better chance to win a championship over Melo. That's just ridiculous. Some of those names are even borderline insulting to say in the same breath as Melo. Beasley, K-Mart, Iggy??? wow. Pass what you smoking.

Via trade and/or cap space option it wouldn't be a 1 to 1 comparison. It would be a combination comparison to Melo such as....

Josh Smith and Mayo>>>>>>>>>Melo

Harden and Lowry>>>>>>>Melo

Bynum and Beasley>>>>>>>Melo

Iggy and Bogut>>>>>>>Melo

Not to mention whatever else is acquired or made available post transactions

If that's the case then you have to do that on Melo's end too. so isn't Melo & Chandler since the Melo trade included Billups which turned into chandler.

Melo and Chandler >>>> Josh Smith/Mayo
Melo and Chandler >>> Harden/Lowry
Melo and Chandler >>Bynum/Beasley
Melo and Chandler >>> Iggy/Bogut

Even if you argue that anyone of those combinations are better then Melo and Chandler it's not by enough to even warrant any backlash.

Only in one of your comparisons does it come close in a 2 for 2 comparison and even then there's financial flexibility left over in the very last

You don't want me to break down salary for the pairs I have listed. Really you don't. Either understand the full scope of basketball and structuring a team together or don't

LOL are you a undercover NBA GM or something. you a couch fan just like me. Don't insult my intelligence. At the end of the day it's all opinions. In my opinion I wouldn't be happy with any of those other combinations you listed. You started the comparisons not me. When I pointed out the flaw in your initial 2 to 1 comparison you want to break down salaries now.

I'm a fan I don't care what they spend as long as the product is good on the floor. and right now it's a good product. Let the owners worry about salaries.

You want to tell me after all the salary dumping and awful seasons we had to endure if we had a final product of Iggy & Bogut that would be a success?? Josh Smith & Mayo?? Bynum & BEASLEY?? BEASLEY??? come on man. don't preach to me about understanding the full scope of structuring a team when you actually would type out the name Beasley.

My argument has been consistent centered around flexibility....financial flexibility is part of it. Sorry you can't grasp this.

Its funny because you talk about fables and fairy tales and suggest that a gm shouldn't pursue a star because other stars might become available. The Melo trade turned into Melo and Tyson. Amare did break down and doctors have said 5 years for micro fracture surgery so maybe he doesn't injure his back while D'Ant is riding him like Secretariat but his knee had a time line and it did give out. Gallo is a china doll. He is prepetually injured. He also isn't as good as most of his young teammates. Gm's and coaches are supposed to win especially in a big market like NY. Passing up stars in hopes that an up and comer or under achiever will sign for less is fine for fans to speculate about but doesn't translate well if you are supposed to be doing a job. Jackie Paper stopped believing in Puff. Maybe, maybe there is more to this gm game then you are seeing.

I was never not of the mindset Gallo/Chandler/Moz/AR couldn't be traded but I wanted low risk high reward type of trades always leaving room for flexibility.

This team since acquiring Melo and Chandler have been nothing remarkably better than the team prior to. If you factor coaching change and no constant rumor of trades then who knows.

I do not want to shrink a team's competitive life cycle to a 2yr window, while capping the heck out of it, and throwing away all assets.

Okay you guys hated Gallo to no end, guess he wasn't a major favorite of mine, I had him in the mix of many trades. Here's the thing we knew he had value in this league and he always had room to grow as a player. Therefore while we maintained our level of overall improved team play in comparison to prior yrs maybe in time he improves his league value. Yes he's been brittle as has Chandler but if you put them on the market now considering all of their injury history I'd wager they'd bring back more to a team than say Amar'e right now.

My examples of player combinations were simply examples they weren't absolutes.

But yes I'd take Josh Smith @ $13mil and O.J. Mayo @ $4mil over $20mil of Carmelo all day every day 100000000 out of 1. Because $17mil for 2 players is better than $20mil for 1 player. If Melo was on the market today isn't this the package he pretty much gets traded for?

For the record I'd take $13mil of Josh Smith and $4mil of O.J. Mayo over $10mil of Gallo and $6mil of Chandler and $3mil of Moz....because the other package is cheaper and probably better in talent.

oh and I'm keeping my picks in the process

excellent point in bold...

For the record I'd take $13mil of Josh Smith and $4mil of O.J. Mayo over $10mil of Gallo and $6mil of Chandler and $3mil of Moz....because the other package is cheaper and probably better in talent.

as much as I like gallo, not sure I can dissagree with you there as well...

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:
My argument has been consistent centered around flexibility....financial flexibility is part of it. Sorry you can't grasp this.

Your argument is absurd and is only becoming more ridiculous with each passing week.

Gallo has sucked. Wilson Chandler has been a non-factor. Mozgov is irrelevant. Lin is presently sucking. Melo has out-performed all of the aforesaid players EASILY! Further, the Knicks are looking great right now and substantially improved across the board since getting rid of the aforementioned ex-knicks. There is no basis for your complaints. NONE.

sucked? rofl.. dude, look at it this way.. how were these guys with the KNICKS.. that is the key, they all played good for the knicks.... it is like trading a player who was horrible here and he goes somewhere else and becomes a superstar.. that doesn't matter, if he wasn't good here.. all of these guys were very good players HERE!!!

Dude, stop laughing and let's recap your argument slowly, shall we?

1) We cannot judge the players traded away for Melo on their subsequent performance with another team. This is KEY.
2) We can judge Melo against comparisons to max-contract players across the league
3) Based on this logic, we would need to judge Melo only on how he has performed with the KNICKS.
4) The players traded away were either classified as "played good" or were "very good players" when with the KNICKS.

Now, lets look at the facts:
A) Gallo was hurt/fragile when with the KNICKS, missing the better parts of an entire season actually. Not necessarily his fault, but obviously a necessary trait for a "very good player" is that they PLAY.
B) Threads and posts abound about the Mayor's inconisistencies while here. Again, consistency is usually a trait necessary for a "very good player".
C) Moz was a project while here, at best. Projects with a few good games are not normally considered "very good players".
D) A painfully pragmatic part of this equation that can be included due to your statement #1 above, is that with your "very good players" the KNICKS went to the playoffs exactly how many times? With Melo the KNICKS have gone to the playoffs how many times?

So you are either stuck looking at the actual present value of the assets traded away (which you obviously don't want to do), or making up dreams about what they could have become if they were still with the KNICKS.

Neither choice has much upside.

I love pointless arguments. It's what makes the internet so darn endearing.

It's crazy when the best player we traded is back with the team at a discount rate. The argument about who won the trade should of stopped there.

The Nuggets have been a .600+ team and got picks, young players, and some nice vets(which in turn got them Andre Miller) for someone they were going to lose for nothing. They definitely didn't lose the trade and I'm sure they'd do it again.

Denver would do ANY trade again. That's a pointless point, given they didn't want to replicate the idiocy of the Cleveland and Toronto model of dealing with your franchise player. That's all Denver managed to do. Keep from doing anything less than treading water in their division.

Andre Miller? 9.4 points and 5 apg? That Andre Miller? This is the upside to getting "at the time burgeoning all star" Ray Felton, who you don't mention by name because it's slightly embarrassing to your whole "Denver won the trade" argument? Andre Miller who's on the downside of his journeyman's career?

Now, on the other side of the ledger, the KNICKS went from no playoffs to where we are today. Does that figure into the winning determination even a little? Hello, today is begging for your attention, mr .600+

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Teams do trade for and sign superstars, you know? If we'd been building right from the start, there's no reason why we wouldn't have been able to pull off any trades or signings to get at least one of Dwight, Lebron, Wade, Howard, or Paul.

and to continue the list and/or

Deron/Harden/Bynum/Josh Smith/Iggy/K-Mart/Bogut/Mayo/Beasley/Lowry/Johnson/Pau/Jefferson/Milsap

All of these guys were gettable or will be gettable in the very immediate future. I'm not saying all of these players would have been an attractive option but nevertheless look at all the potential combination of players.

None of those players you just listed give us a better chance to win a championship over Melo. That's just ridiculous. Some of those names are even borderline insulting to say in the same breath as Melo. Beasley, K-Mart, Iggy??? wow. Pass what you smoking.

Via trade and/or cap space option it wouldn't be a 1 to 1 comparison. It would be a combination comparison to Melo such as....

Josh Smith and Mayo>>>>>>>>>Melo

Harden and Lowry>>>>>>>Melo

Bynum and Beasley>>>>>>>Melo

Iggy and Bogut>>>>>>>Melo

Not to mention whatever else is acquired or made available post transactions

If that's the case then you have to do that on Melo's end too. so isn't Melo & Chandler since the Melo trade included Billups which turned into chandler.

Melo and Chandler >>>> Josh Smith/Mayo
Melo and Chandler >>> Harden/Lowry
Melo and Chandler >>Bynum/Beasley
Melo and Chandler >>> Iggy/Bogut

Even if you argue that anyone of those combinations are better then Melo and Chandler it's not by enough to even warrant any backlash.

Only in one of your comparisons does it come close in a 2 for 2 comparison and even then there's financial flexibility left over in the very last

You don't want me to break down salary for the pairs I have listed. Really you don't. Either understand the full scope of basketball and structuring a team together or don't

LOL are you a undercover NBA GM or something. you a couch fan just like me. Don't insult my intelligence. At the end of the day it's all opinions. In my opinion I wouldn't be happy with any of those other combinations you listed. You started the comparisons not me. When I pointed out the flaw in your initial 2 to 1 comparison you want to break down salaries now.

I'm a fan I don't care what they spend as long as the product is good on the floor. and right now it's a good product. Let the owners worry about salaries.

You want to tell me after all the salary dumping and awful seasons we had to endure if we had a final product of Iggy & Bogut that would be a success?? Josh Smith & Mayo?? Bynum & BEASLEY?? BEASLEY??? come on man. don't preach to me about understanding the full scope of structuring a team when you actually would type out the name Beasley.

My argument has been consistent centered around flexibility....financial flexibility is part of it. Sorry you can't grasp this.

Its funny because you talk about fables and fairy tales and suggest that a gm shouldn't pursue a star because other stars might become available. The Melo trade turned into Melo and Tyson. Amare did break down and doctors have said 5 years for micro fracture surgery so maybe he doesn't injure his back while D'Ant is riding him like Secretariat but his knee had a time line and it did give out. Gallo is a china doll. He is prepetually injured. He also isn't as good as most of his young teammates. Gm's and coaches are supposed to win especially in a big market like NY. Passing up stars in hopes that an up and comer or under achiever will sign for less is fine for fans to speculate about but doesn't translate well if you are supposed to be doing a job. Jackie Paper stopped believing in Puff. Maybe, maybe there is more to this gm game then you are seeing.

the point is who you pursue.. Knicks had no business going after carmelo.. not at that cost.. that is the problem.. You see him as a star, some of us don't, hence the reason for these types of arguments...no matter how much you try to down guys like gallo, it only weakens your argument.. It is a complete fail to try to justify a move by needlessly and unjustifiably trying to down another player...

The Job of a GM in any market, large or small is to make the best move for his team, in every area, and that includes financial, and protecting the teams assets...

here is the flaw in your argument..

He is prepetually injured. He also isn't as good as most of his young teammates.

and carmelo isn't as good as most of the other max players in the league....

see how easy that is...

the key is, it cost us nothing keeping gallo.. it cost us a lot acquiring carmelo..

This is where my whole issue has always been. At all costs. What does that mean? We didn't give away any future stars, no lottery picks, nothing outside of solid role players. This is just a classic case of people overrating that collection of assets because they were young players with reasonable upside. The league as a whole did not view that group of players as anything to write home about. Neither did Denver, thus the reason they kept working to complete a deal with the Nets prior to finally giving in, as well as anyone else who was willing to offer something without a promise from Anthony. There were teams out there putting out better packages than ours. Nets had better young players and lottery picks. We had neither. Anthony strong-armed his way here and that was the only reason we have him. I value Anthony the same way NBA teams do. The Knicks had one of the worst packages of players and assets to offer, and got it done because that's what Melo wanted.

first of all, I said at that cost.. not at all cost... but again, you felt we gave away solid role players.. well that is a broad label... is iggy a solid role player? is many? what is a solid role player? if you think we gave away a bunch of ronnie brewers and steve novaks, then I say you are wrong here....

I don't care what the nets had, and for the record how are the players the nets traded away doing? you see it is very evident you only intend to downplay what the knicks traded away.... favors is not starting for the jazz although he has upside, but so does gallo and chandler.... and devin harris is pretty much on his way to being a journeyman...

The Knicks had one of the worst packages of players and assets to offer, and got it done because that's what Melo wanted.

keep telling yourself this.. you just might believe it one day..

Iggy is not a role player, he is an all-star. A role player is one who will start on some teams, come off the bench on others, have an impact on the game, but is not a game-changer. That is what Gallo and Chandler are. Utah views Favors as a huge piece to the point where Milsap and Jefferson probably won't be on this team after this season. Harris was a former all-star and impact player who declined dramatically. Plus there were a series of draft picks which trumps the Knicks package on its own. I liked the Knicks players very much at that point. I just believe we vastly overrated them, and it gets more evident by the day.

you have to be kidding me with this.. first of all, there are few game changers, we call them superstars, guys like wade,lebron, durant, rose.... if you impact a game you are more than just a solid role player... so according to your definition, most players in the league are role players.. there are a lot of good players than can start for some teams, come off the bench on others... ginobili comes off the bench.. odom, crawford, even harden came off the bench... but that defines their role.. not their talent.. gallo was a starter for the knicks, and now he is s starter for the nuggets. .fact.. chandler as george karl put it, could start for most teams in the league..

But hey I see you made excuses for favors... and harris, played in one allstar game had a good season in 2009, but hardly do I use allstar games to define how good a player is, since most of those are popularity contest....

I just believe we vastly overrated them, and it gets more evident by the day.

who overrated them? it is like anything else around here.. as soon as a player leaves, he all of a sudden is no longer good.. we didn't overrate the kids, what happened is carmelo was overrated, and it is evident from day one when he came here.. so the new excuse became.. We had to get him a better team.. rofl.. isn't that what we were saying about amare and the kids? to keep adding better pieces?

Game changers aren't necessarily franchise changers, i'm talking about players who make a difference. They clearly improve a team. But i will not argue this anymore in regards to overrating Melo, Gallo, whatever. I will ask you to observe how the league looks at these players. NJ was ready to give away everything to get Melo there. Other teams like the Lakers (with Bynum), Rockets (with all assets they had), etc backed down due to not getting a promise from Melo. Each team wanted him to give him the keys to the franchise. If you are right and they are all wrong then you should be running a team instead of these many GMs. Denver got the best deal they could from the Knicks because they couldn't risk it, but the fact is, he would have been gone long before because they had little interest in Gallo earlier and their were much better packages being offered. You have your opinion and i can respect that, but when i compare it to general consensus it is very off.

Knixkik wrote:
Game changers aren't necessarily franchise changers, i'm talking about players who make a difference. They clearly improve a team. But i will not argue this anymore in regards to overrating Melo, Gallo, whatever. I will ask you to observe how the league looks at these players. NJ was ready to give away everything to get Melo there. Other teams like the Lakers (with Bynum), Rockets (with all assets they had), etc backed down due to not getting a promise from Melo. Each team wanted him to give him the keys to the franchise. If you are right and they are all wrong then you should be running a team instead of these many GMs. Denver got the best deal they could from the Knicks because they couldn't risk it, but the fact is, he would have been gone long before because they had little interest in Gallo earlier and their were much better packages being offered. You have your opinion and i can respect that, but when i compare it to general consensus it is very off.

TKF believes Gallo is a better player and or has more impact on games than Melo. That is all I needed to know to stop taking him seriously. LMAO!

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Teams do trade for and sign superstars, you know? If we'd been building right from the start, there's no reason why we wouldn't have been able to pull off any trades or signings to get at least one of Dwight, Lebron, Wade, Howard, or Paul.

and to continue the list and/or

Deron/Harden/Bynum/Josh Smith/Iggy/K-Mart/Bogut/Mayo/Beasley/Lowry/Johnson/Pau/Jefferson/Milsap

All of these guys were gettable or will be gettable in the very immediate future. I'm not saying all of these players would have been an attractive option but nevertheless look at all the potential combination of players.

None of those players you just listed give us a better chance to win a championship over Melo. That's just ridiculous. Some of those names are even borderline insulting to say in the same breath as Melo. Beasley, K-Mart, Iggy??? wow. Pass what you smoking.

Via trade and/or cap space option it wouldn't be a 1 to 1 comparison. It would be a combination comparison to Melo such as....

Josh Smith and Mayo>>>>>>>>>Melo

Harden and Lowry>>>>>>>Melo

Bynum and Beasley>>>>>>>Melo

Iggy and Bogut>>>>>>>Melo

Not to mention whatever else is acquired or made available post transactions

If that's the case then you have to do that on Melo's end too. so isn't Melo & Chandler since the Melo trade included Billups which turned into chandler.

Melo and Chandler >>>> Josh Smith/Mayo
Melo and Chandler >>> Harden/Lowry
Melo and Chandler >>Bynum/Beasley
Melo and Chandler >>> Iggy/Bogut

Even if you argue that anyone of those combinations are better then Melo and Chandler it's not by enough to even warrant any backlash.

Only in one of your comparisons does it come close in a 2 for 2 comparison and even then there's financial flexibility left over in the very last

You don't want me to break down salary for the pairs I have listed. Really you don't. Either understand the full scope of basketball and structuring a team together or don't

LOL are you a undercover NBA GM or something. you a couch fan just like me. Don't insult my intelligence. At the end of the day it's all opinions. In my opinion I wouldn't be happy with any of those other combinations you listed. You started the comparisons not me. When I pointed out the flaw in your initial 2 to 1 comparison you want to break down salaries now.

I'm a fan I don't care what they spend as long as the product is good on the floor. and right now it's a good product. Let the owners worry about salaries.

You want to tell me after all the salary dumping and awful seasons we had to endure if we had a final product of Iggy & Bogut that would be a success?? Josh Smith & Mayo?? Bynum & BEASLEY?? BEASLEY??? come on man. don't preach to me about understanding the full scope of structuring a team when you actually would type out the name Beasley.

My argument has been consistent centered around flexibility....financial flexibility is part of it. Sorry you can't grasp this.

Its funny because you talk about fables and fairy tales and suggest that a gm shouldn't pursue a star because other stars might become available. The Melo trade turned into Melo and Tyson. Amare did break down and doctors have said 5 years for micro fracture surgery so maybe he doesn't injure his back while D'Ant is riding him like Secretariat but his knee had a time line and it did give out. Gallo is a china doll. He is prepetually injured. He also isn't as good as most of his young teammates. Gm's and coaches are supposed to win especially in a big market like NY. Passing up stars in hopes that an up and comer or under achiever will sign for less is fine for fans to speculate about but doesn't translate well if you are supposed to be doing a job. Jackie Paper stopped believing in Puff. Maybe, maybe there is more to this gm game then you are seeing.

the point is who you pursue.. Knicks had no business going after carmelo.. not at that cost.. that is the problem.. You see him as a star, some of us don't, hence the reason for these types of arguments...no matter how much you try to down guys like gallo, it only weakens your argument.. It is a complete fail to try to justify a move by needlessly and unjustifiably trying to down another player...

The Job of a GM in any market, large or small is to make the best move for his team, in every area, and that includes financial, and protecting the teams assets...

here is the flaw in your argument..

He is prepetually injured. He also isn't as good as most of his young teammates.

and carmelo isn't as good as most of the other max players in the league....

see how easy that is...

the key is, it cost us nothing keeping gallo.. it cost us a lot acquiring carmelo..

This is where my whole issue has always been. At all costs. What does that mean? We didn't give away any future stars, no lottery picks, nothing outside of solid role players. This is just a classic case of people overrating that collection of assets because they were young players with reasonable upside. The league as a whole did not view that group of players as anything to write home about. Neither did Denver, thus the reason they kept working to complete a deal with the Nets prior to finally giving in, as well as anyone else who was willing to offer something without a promise from Anthony. There were teams out there putting out better packages than ours. Nets had better young players and lottery picks. We had neither. Anthony strong-armed his way here and that was the only reason we have him. I value Anthony the same way NBA teams do. The Knicks had one of the worst packages of players and assets to offer, and got it done because that's what Melo wanted.

first of all, I said at that cost.. not at all cost... but again, you felt we gave away solid role players.. well that is a broad label... is iggy a solid role player? is many? what is a solid role player? if you think we gave away a bunch of ronnie brewers and steve novaks, then I say you are wrong here....

I don't care what the nets had, and for the record how are the players the nets traded away doing? you see it is very evident you only intend to downplay what the knicks traded away.... favors is not starting for the jazz although he has upside, but so does gallo and chandler.... and devin harris is pretty much on his way to being a journeyman...

The Knicks had one of the worst packages of players and assets to offer, and got it done because that's what Melo wanted.

keep telling yourself this.. you just might believe it one day..

Iggy is not a role player, he is an all-star. A role player is one who will start on some teams, come off the bench on others, have an impact on the game, but is not a game-changer. That is what Gallo and Chandler are. Utah views Favors as a huge piece to the point where Milsap and Jefferson probably won't be on this team after this season. Harris was a former all-star and impact player who declined dramatically. Plus there were a series of draft picks which trumps the Knicks package on its own. I liked the Knicks players very much at that point. I just believe we vastly overrated them, and it gets more evident by the day.

you have to be kidding me with this.. first of all, there are few game changers, we call them superstars, guys like wade,lebron, durant, rose.... if you impact a game you are more than just a solid role player... so according to your definition, most players in the league are role players.. there are a lot of good players than can start for some teams, come off the bench on others... ginobili comes off the bench.. odom, crawford, even harden came off the bench... but that defines their role.. not their talent.. gallo was a starter for the knicks, and now he is s starter for the nuggets. .fact.. chandler as george karl put it, could start for most teams in the league..

But hey I see you made excuses for favors... and harris, played in one allstar game had a good season in 2009, but hardly do I use allstar games to define how good a player is, since most of those are popularity contest....

I just believe we vastly overrated them, and it gets more evident by the day.

who overrated them? it is like anything else around here.. as soon as a player leaves, he all of a sudden is no longer good.. we didn't overrate the kids, what happened is carmelo was overrated, and it is evident from day one when he came here.. so the new excuse became.. We had to get him a better team.. rofl.. isn't that what we were saying about amare and the kids? to keep adding better pieces?

exactly. the level of hypocrisy here is stunning. and guess what the argument is that we needed a second star to pair with stoudemire, and apparently any second star will do even if it has proven six ways to sunday that they do not fit together at all! so you pair an overrated player with stoudemire and compound the problem because he doesn't fit in with what is going on here at all, displacing the gm, the coach, several rotation players, and the first big money free agent as it turns out as well.

What yr should we be expecting a championship in Denver?

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JamesLin wrote:This thread is just retarded. Not even a good question. Just a question trying to stir up the 'what if' situation. The writer is just too stupid to realize this thread is just a troll thread. The trade was made by Jim Dolan. Sacrificing too much? Hell yes. Just imagine if the trade didn't go through:

1. We would have solid bench young players.
2. We would have enough cap space to get a legit starter/star like Howard.
3. Gallo is proven to be solid player
4. We would still be getting veteran players that will play here for minimum
5. Kidd would be training Lin instead of playing along side with Felton.
6. Amar'e would be awesome on being the main star
7. We would still be way under the cap to rebuild a dynasty
8. We might have been able to get Phil to coach.

There's a lot of ifs. You're writing this thread to try to convince we're a championship team now? Stop sucking on your mama titties and grow up.

This post is very incorrect. We would get a legit star other than Melo? Who? These guys aren't waiting until free agency anymore. Vets like Kidd may not have come here if they didn't feel this team had a legit chance to compete. And Lin would not be here because we would have Felton. We would also not be under the salary cap because players like Gallo and Chandler would have needed to be paid. Saying these things is like saying we would have won the lottery and drafted a instant star player. People here are living in the "best case scenario world" assuming these things would have happened if we never traded for Melo. Dolan has not been a good owner, but i won't hold this against him just because of a 5% chance of some of these things coming true if he didn't make the trade. Very high likelood we would be overpaying role players and being well over the cap if we never got Melo. We would not be 4-0 right now, we would just be a .500 ball club with a chance to get to the playoffs, but not do anything when we get there. But everyone would be happy because we have draft picks that can hopefully turn into decent players right? And cap space that can hopefully turn into another star player right? SMH.

Teams do trade for and sign superstars, you know? If we'd been building right from the start, there's no reason why we wouldn't have been able to pull off any trades or signings to get at least one of Dwight, Lebron, Wade, Howard, or Paul.

and to continue the list and/or

Deron/Harden/Bynum/Josh Smith/Iggy/K-Mart/Bogut/Mayo/Beasley/Lowry/Johnson/Pau/Jefferson/Milsap

All of these guys were gettable or will be gettable in the very immediate future. I'm not saying all of these players would have been an attractive option but nevertheless look at all the potential combination of players.

None of those players you just listed give us a better chance to win a championship over Melo. That's just ridiculous. Some of those names are even borderline insulting to say in the same breath as Melo. Beasley, K-Mart, Iggy??? wow. Pass what you smoking.

Via trade and/or cap space option it wouldn't be a 1 to 1 comparison. It would be a combination comparison to Melo such as....

Josh Smith and Mayo>>>>>>>>>Melo

Harden and Lowry>>>>>>>Melo

Bynum and Beasley>>>>>>>Melo

Iggy and Bogut>>>>>>>Melo

Not to mention whatever else is acquired or made available post transactions

If that's the case then you have to do that on Melo's end too. so isn't Melo & Chandler since the Melo trade included Billups which turned into chandler.

Melo and Chandler >>>> Josh Smith/Mayo
Melo and Chandler >>> Harden/Lowry
Melo and Chandler >>Bynum/Beasley
Melo and Chandler >>> Iggy/Bogut

Even if you argue that anyone of those combinations are better then Melo and Chandler it's not by enough to even warrant any backlash.

Only in one of your comparisons does it come close in a 2 for 2 comparison and even then there's financial flexibility left over in the very last

You don't want me to break down salary for the pairs I have listed. Really you don't. Either understand the full scope of basketball and structuring a team together or don't

LOL are you a undercover NBA GM or something. you a couch fan just like me. Don't insult my intelligence. At the end of the day it's all opinions. In my opinion I wouldn't be happy with any of those other combinations you listed. You started the comparisons not me. When I pointed out the flaw in your initial 2 to 1 comparison you want to break down salaries now.

I'm a fan I don't care what they spend as long as the product is good on the floor. and right now it's a good product. Let the owners worry about salaries.

You want to tell me after all the salary dumping and awful seasons we had to endure if we had a final product of Iggy & Bogut that would be a success?? Josh Smith & Mayo?? Bynum & BEASLEY?? BEASLEY??? come on man. don't preach to me about understanding the full scope of structuring a team when you actually would type out the name Beasley.

My argument has been consistent centered around flexibility....financial flexibility is part of it. Sorry you can't grasp this.

Its funny because you talk about fables and fairy tales and suggest that a gm shouldn't pursue a star because other stars might become available. The Melo trade turned into Melo and Tyson. Amare did break down and doctors have said 5 years for micro fracture surgery so maybe he doesn't injure his back while D'Ant is riding him like Secretariat but his knee had a time line and it did give out. Gallo is a china doll. He is prepetually injured. He also isn't as good as most of his young teammates. Gm's and coaches are supposed to win especially in a big market like NY. Passing up stars in hopes that an up and comer or under achiever will sign for less is fine for fans to speculate about but doesn't translate well if you are supposed to be doing a job. Jackie Paper stopped believing in Puff. Maybe, maybe there is more to this gm game then you are seeing.

the point is who you pursue.. Knicks had no business going after carmelo.. not at that cost.. that is the problem.. You see him as a star, some of us don't, hence the reason for these types of arguments...no matter how much you try to down guys like gallo, it only weakens your argument.. It is a complete fail to try to justify a move by needlessly and unjustifiably trying to down another player...

The Job of a GM in any market, large or small is to make the best move for his team, in every area, and that includes financial, and protecting the teams assets...

here is the flaw in your argument..

He is prepetually injured. He also isn't as good as most of his young teammates.

and carmelo isn't as good as most of the other max players in the league....

see how easy that is...

the key is, it cost us nothing keeping gallo.. it cost us a lot acquiring carmelo..

This is where my whole issue has always been. At all costs. What does that mean? We didn't give away any future stars, no lottery picks, nothing outside of solid role players. This is just a classic case of people overrating that collection of assets because they were young players with reasonable upside. The league as a whole did not view that group of players as anything to write home about. Neither did Denver, thus the reason they kept working to complete a deal with the Nets prior to finally giving in, as well as anyone else who was willing to offer something without a promise from Anthony. There were teams out there putting out better packages than ours. Nets had better young players and lottery picks. We had neither. Anthony strong-armed his way here and that was the only reason we have him. I value Anthony the same way NBA teams do. The Knicks had one of the worst packages of players and assets to offer, and got it done because that's what Melo wanted.

first of all, I said at that cost.. not at all cost... but again, you felt we gave away solid role players.. well that is a broad label... is iggy a solid role player? is many? what is a solid role player? if you think we gave away a bunch of ronnie brewers and steve novaks, then I say you are wrong here....

I don't care what the nets had, and for the record how are the players the nets traded away doing? you see it is very evident you only intend to downplay what the knicks traded away.... favors is not starting for the jazz although he has upside, but so does gallo and chandler.... and devin harris is pretty much on his way to being a journeyman...

The Knicks had one of the worst packages of players and assets to offer, and got it done because that's what Melo wanted.

keep telling yourself this.. you just might believe it one day..

Iggy is not a role player, he is an all-star. A role player is one who will start on some teams, come off the bench on others, have an impact on the game, but is not a game-changer. That is what Gallo and Chandler are. Utah views Favors as a huge piece to the point where Milsap and Jefferson probably won't be on this team after this season. Harris was a former all-star and impact player who declined dramatically. Plus there were a series of draft picks which trumps the Knicks package on its own. I liked the Knicks players very much at that point. I just believe we vastly overrated them, and it gets more evident by the day.

you have to be kidding me with this.. first of all, there are few game changers, we call them superstars, guys like wade,lebron, durant, rose.... if you impact a game you are more than just a solid role player... so according to your definition, most players in the league are role players.. there are a lot of good players than can start for some teams, come off the bench on others... ginobili comes off the bench.. odom, crawford, even harden came off the bench... but that defines their role.. not their talent.. gallo was a starter for the knicks, and now he is s starter for the nuggets. .fact.. chandler as george karl put it, could start for most teams in the league..

But hey I see you made excuses for favors... and harris, played in one allstar game had a good season in 2009, but hardly do I use allstar games to define how good a player is, since most of those are popularity contest....

I just believe we vastly overrated them, and it gets more evident by the day.

who overrated them? it is like anything else around here.. as soon as a player leaves, he all of a sudden is no longer good.. we didn't overrate the kids, what happened is carmelo was overrated, and it is evident from day one when he came here.. so the new excuse became.. We had to get him a better team.. rofl.. isn't that what we were saying about amare and the kids? to keep adding better pieces?

Ah well. It's nice to be a True Knick Fan:

That stupid scumbag melo. I sure hope he doesn't think leading the best team in the NBA means anything

NUPE wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I wonder how long the "we lost the trade" gallery are going to hold out? 6-0? 10-0? 15-0?

Ah well. It's nice to be a True Knick Fan:

That stupid scumbag melo. I sure hope he doesn't think leading the best team in the NBA means anything

The season is still young but based upon the overall play of the Knicks thus far it is safe to say 55+ wins is in the range of reason. The Knicks are now 23-6 under Woodson during the reg. season. At what point do people realize this is likely a pace they can keep in regards to defense and team play which will translate to wins.

a 5-0 start is great and 55+ wins in the regular season is a shiny record... but we all can agree that the real prizes are a) top 2 conference seeding and b) a strong ECF showing.

lets hope the knicks are not crowing and ready to rest on their laurels like you and others are ready to do!