Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:If Lin sucks he will be untradeable because the 3rd year is a cap killer for most of the league. 15 million for a backup?

If Felton plays like he has throughout his whole career, his $18 mil contract will be untradeable.

It would be but Felton is at 3 years $10 million.

Uptown wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

callmened wrote:Mark berman was jus on espn radio...he kinda defended dolan and he knix...by sayin lin went behind their back by going to houston and raising the original 9mil in he 3rd yr to 14mil...and thats not what was originally discussed. Of course lin has he right to negotiate whatever contract he wanted with houston...but once lin heard woody guaranteeing knix will match...he went back to houston and upped the contract...it was jus sneaky how lin did it

Am i understanding this properly

This is what seemed to have happened, yet nobody wants to talk about this point. It seems to me that if Lin really wanted to be here, he would have signed the first contract or signed for 2 years. That 15 mil for the 3rd year (which Steven A Smith says is really 30 mil for the 3rd) could have been made up in endorsements easily for Lin in NYC.

No sane person turns down a guaranteed $15m in the 3rd year just cause they really really want to be in NY, that makes no sense.

So, how much do you blame knicks management for not matching that deal when by the time Lin's 3rd year rolls around, we will be in salary cap hell when you add Lin's 3rd year to Melo and Stats contract. Not to mention, Shump coming up for an exntention and the need to add youth to the team to replace Camby, Kidd, and others leaving...Our hands will be tied....

Isn't everyone coming off the books after year 3???

So if Lin is a bust then he doesn't get resigned. Stat is gone. Plenty of $ to sign Shump and Melo of he wants to stay/if NY wants him back

Off the top of my head I didnt think so; Double checking that now....

He's right. And the Knicks are in cap hell with or without Lin for each of the next 3 years.

Please check into reliable sports sites/writers rather than berman/sas. The Knicks offered the QO (1 million), a customary offer. Grunwald was quoted saying that they'd match basically any offer for lin; they told him to find his market value. Where besides SAS did we hear or read that they offered Lin 2 years? No where.

What factual site or reliable person said that Lin went back and negotiated a bigger contract? Did you think that maybe Houston upped the offer because they realized they needed a PG and wanted to make it hard for NYK to match? Why don't you check with legit beat writers like David Aldridge or Jonathan Feigen (Houston beat writer).

joec32033 wrote:

biglove44 wrote:You're believing Berman and SAS? Really?! The same Berman who repeatedly puts negative press out on this team's beloved Melo?

Please check into reliable sports sites/writers rather than berman/sas. The Knicks offered the QO (1 million), a customary offer. Grunwald was quoted saying that they'd match basically any offer for lin; they told him to find his market value. Where besides SAS did we hear or read that they offered Lin 2 years? No where.

What factual site or reliable person said that Lin went back and negotiated a bigger contract? Did you think that maybe Houston upped the offer because they realized they needed a PG and wanted to make it hard for NYK to match? Why don't you check with legit beat writers like David Aldridge or Jonathan Feigen (Houston beat writer).

I agree with Aldridge, but a Houston writer will NEVER mention it if it happened. That guy can cause too many problems for the Rockets and it could effect his ability to do his job with that team.

I have NEVER EVER EVER seen a team go back and renegotiate a verbal agreement. Usually reported numbers are wrong by a little of a option year is left out but never have I heard a team renegotiated a totally new contract. This type of action is a game changer when it comes the process because you cant have teams claiming deals then having a separate or renegotiated deal when it's time to sign. That is was past gamesmanship and onto bush league tactics, imo.

I will say IF the story is true (and I am leaning towards believing it because I have never seen this happen). Even in situations where something unexpected happens. Lowrey doesn't get traded overnight. Dragic was long gone. Maybe the Rockets saw they were desperate and renegotiate.

Maybe Lin saw the Rockets were desperate and went back and said I want more money, and by the way the Knicks said they were matching that last offer.

Maybe the Rockets convinced Lin that NY didn't want him as was reported before (if that is the case I don't want him. Way to pollyanna in the brain for me then).

So far the Knicks got screwed twice. Toronto with Fields "blocking" the Nash trade, and now with Houston and Lin. The league has to HATE seeing backdoor tactics like this. The fact that it happened right after a lockout season is more messed up. The fact that they just LOST a case about Lin's bird rights and now they are seeing this fiasco regarding him? It seems like every loophole in the newly signed and still fresh CBA is being exploited in a back door, seedy, dirty manner.

Regarding the bold, your argument is flawed. Grunwald was quoted saying to the media that he wasn't concerned about matching Lin and that it shouldn't be a problem. He said this before the 1st verbal agreement between Lin/Houston. So if Lin told Houston they were going to match, he would have already told them the first time, not the second time to make them increase the offer.

biglove44 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

biglove44 wrote:You're believing Berman and SAS? Really?! The same Berman who repeatedly puts negative press out on this team's beloved Melo?

Please check into reliable sports sites/writers rather than berman/sas. The Knicks offered the QO (1 million), a customary offer. Grunwald was quoted saying that they'd match basically any offer for lin; they told him to find his market value. Where besides SAS did we hear or read that they offered Lin 2 years? No where.

What factual site or reliable person said that Lin went back and negotiated a bigger contract? Did you think that maybe Houston upped the offer because they realized they needed a PG and wanted to make it hard for NYK to match? Why don't you check with legit beat writers like David Aldridge or Jonathan Feigen (Houston beat writer).

I agree with Aldridge, but a Houston writer will NEVER mention it if it happened. That guy can cause too many problems for the Rockets and it could effect his ability to do his job with that team.

I have NEVER EVER EVER seen a team go back and renegotiate a verbal agreement. Usually reported numbers are wrong by a little of a option year is left out but never have I heard a team renegotiated a totally new contract. This type of action is a game changer when it comes the process because you cant have teams claiming deals then having a separate or renegotiated deal when it's time to sign. That is was past gamesmanship and onto bush league tactics, imo.

I will say IF the story is true (and I am leaning towards believing it because I have never seen this happen). Even in situations where something unexpected happens. Lowrey doesn't get traded overnight. Dragic was long gone. Maybe the Rockets saw they were desperate and renegotiate.

Maybe Lin saw the Rockets were desperate and went back and said I want more money, and by the way the Knicks said they were matching that last offer.

Maybe the Rockets convinced Lin that NY didn't want him as was reported before (if that is the case I don't want him. Way to pollyanna in the brain for me then).

So far the Knicks got screwed twice. Toronto with Fields "blocking" the Nash trade, and now with Houston and Lin. The league has to HATE seeing backdoor tactics like this. The fact that it happened right after a lockout season is more messed up. The fact that they just LOST a case about Lin's bird rights and now they are seeing this fiasco regarding him? It seems like every loophole in the newly signed and still fresh CBA is being exploited in a back door, seedy, dirty manner.

Regarding the bold, your argument is flawed. Grunwald was quoted saying to the media that he wasn't concerned about matching Lin and that it shouldn't be a problem. He said this before the 1st verbal agreement between Lin/Houston. So if Lin told Houston they were going to match, he would have already told them the first time, not the second time to make them increase the offer.

No. Using your logic, Everyone was on notice the Knicks were gonna match any offer. So, why even try? The first offer sheet was actually a reasonable deal. I personally don't believe the bolded part I typed. It was a hypothetical. You think Morey forgot he needed a PG? He lost Dragic outright then traded Lowery. He put himself in this position.

What I think happened...Morey didn't think we would match the original. He figures he has his PG, so he trades Lowery. He starts to see the Knicks are not replacing Lin but are building enhancement talents around him. Lin for what ever STUPID (yes I said STUPID) reason lets on that the Knicks are actually gonna match. Hell he is still chillin' with Knicks faculty. Now Morey and Lin decide to do this new contract. I am in no way believing Lin is this naive. If he did indeed sneek into Vegas to sign, he either new something was wrong, or he was trying to, ahem, go backdoor on the Knicks.

Neither Lin or Morey are scott free in this, imo. From where I sit, both are untrustworthy.

biglove44 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

biglove44 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

biglove44 wrote:You're believing Berman and SAS? Really?! The same Berman who repeatedly puts negative press out on this team's beloved Melo?

Please check into reliable sports sites/writers rather than berman/sas. The Knicks offered the QO (1 million), a customary offer. Grunwald was quoted saying that they'd match basically any offer for lin; they told him to find his market value. Where besides SAS did we hear or read that they offered Lin 2 years? No where.

What factual site or reliable person said that Lin went back and negotiated a bigger contract? Did you think that maybe Houston upped the offer because they realized they needed a PG and wanted to make it hard for NYK to match? Why don't you check with legit beat writers like David Aldridge or Jonathan Feigen (Houston beat writer).

I agree with Aldridge, but a Houston writer will NEVER mention it if it happened. That guy can cause too many problems for the Rockets and it could effect his ability to do his job with that team.

I have NEVER EVER EVER seen a team go back and renegotiate a verbal agreement. Usually reported numbers are wrong by a little of a option year is left out but never have I heard a team renegotiated a totally new contract. This type of action is a game changer when it comes the process because you cant have teams claiming deals then having a separate or renegotiated deal when it's time to sign. That is was past gamesmanship and onto bush league tactics, imo.

I will say IF the story is true (and I am leaning towards believing it because I have never seen this happen). Even in situations where something unexpected happens. Lowrey doesn't get traded overnight. Dragic was long gone. Maybe the Rockets saw they were desperate and renegotiate.

Maybe Lin saw the Rockets were desperate and went back and said I want more money, and by the way the Knicks said they were matching that last offer.

Maybe the Rockets convinced Lin that NY didn't want him as was reported before (if that is the case I don't want him. Way to pollyanna in the brain for me then).

So far the Knicks got screwed twice. Toronto with Fields "blocking" the Nash trade, and now with Houston and Lin. The league has to HATE seeing backdoor tactics like this. The fact that it happened right after a lockout season is more messed up. The fact that they just LOST a case about Lin's bird rights and now they are seeing this fiasco regarding him? It seems like every loophole in the newly signed and still fresh CBA is being exploited in a back door, seedy, dirty manner.

Regarding the bold, your argument is flawed. Grunwald was quoted saying to the media that he wasn't concerned about matching Lin and that it shouldn't be a problem. He said this before the 1st verbal agreement between Lin/Houston. So if Lin told Houston they were going to match, he would have already told them the first time, not the second time to make them increase the offer.

No. Using your logic, Everyone was on notice the Knicks were gonna match any offer. So, why even try? The first offer sheet was actually a reasonable deal. I personally don't believe the bolded part I typed. It was a hypothetical. You think Morey forgot he needed a PG? He lost Dragic outright then traded Lowery. He put himself in this position.

What I think happened...Morey didn't think we would match the original. He figures he has his PG, so he trades Lowery. He starts to see the Knicks are not replacing Lin but are building enhancement talents around him. Lin for what ever STUPID (yes I said STUPID) reason lets on that the Knicks are actually gonna match. Hell he is still chillin' with Knicks faculty. Now Morey and Lin decide to do this new contract. I am in no way believing Lin is this naive. If he did indeed sneek into Vegas to sign, he either new something was wrong, or he was trying to, ahem, go backdoor on the Knicks.

Neither Lin or Morey are scott free in this, imo. From where I sit, both are untrustworthy.

You're entitled to your opinion. Good thing it's just that!

Ditto.

sidsanders wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Yea Lin/Lin's agent/Morey all went backdoor on the Knicks. The first offer the Knicks probably match, the 2nd last minute renegotiated contract would give any capped out team pause.

how was the first one not in the same boat? if it was 5 5 10 10, with the last year as team option, year three is still paying luxury tax. if i recall, the knicks are paying the tax regardless if lin is matched or not, and they are going to probably be repeat offenders. that means the multiplier becomes a factor. all this happens if the current contracts all remain on the books and no lin.

Got this from Ephus on knickerblogger. Her is very good on cap issues.

Depends on how far over the tax line the Knicks end up. If they end up $20 million over the tax line, the $6 million would cost an extra $18 million in tax. If they end up $25 million over the tax line, the $6 million would cost an extra $20.5 million in tax.

ANNND that Grunwald is waiting for Dolan to cool off and that's why he was dodging the Fex Ex man - to give the Knicks more clock and more time to convince Dolan that they should bring Lin back anyway.

I realize that is complete speculation on my part... but I think it might explain Grunwald's delaying on starting the 3-day clock. If you think about it, he was able to stall for almost 36 hours... pretty impressive if that was his goal.

Or maybe the delay was to make sure they could lock in Felton. But I'm hoping Grunwald is trying to let Dolan cool off and make one last appeal to sanity... we shall see.