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Walsh/MDA
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fishmike
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7/22/2009  12:33 PM
3 step plan to rebuilding: 1. Fire Mike 2. Hire Mullin 3. Pay Avery

I think this thread made me dumber
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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McK1
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7/22/2009  12:34 PM
Posted by fishmike:

3 step plan to rebuilding: 1. Fire Mike 2. Hire Mullin 3. Pay Avery

I think this thread made me dumber

you don't like my sig Patrick?

I do believe Aveery has a better career win percentage than D'Antoni. I know he broke a few fastest to records while in Dallas and has beaten the Spurs in a 7 game series. And he has a taken a team to the Fi....

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-22-2009 12:38 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bippity10
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7/22/2009  12:45 PM
Posted by McK1:

I hope Gallo doesn't become Johnathan Bender pt 2.

most "experts" were in agreement OK4 should be the no. 1 pick because despite Dwight's physical talent he was still raw and OK4 had the training.

Oden was also a consensus no. 1. he was a once every decade center blah blah blah. Portland had signed Pryyzbilla to a long term deal the summer before. He is still young and is still one of the best rebounding/shot blocking centers in the league.

I hope you're right about it not being Lebron or bust

Gallinari-Your hope is the same hope as mine. Only time will tell. And if that happens you and I will be in the criticism bandwagon together.

Howard-Doesn't matter what the "experts" had to say. What matters is that Orlando had him ranked the highest and they took him. It didn't matter what position he played. The only need they were trying to fill was the need to get better. We are in the same boat. i'm still not sure what you are trying to argue on this one.

Oden-I'm completely lost on what we are arguing.

I hope you're right about it not being Lebron or bust- You know when you will know that it's Lebron or bust? When we trade young guys or draft picks and mortgage our future in order to acquire a marginal talent in the hopes that this will entice Lebron. Then when we don't get Lebron we are stuck because we can't make any more moves. But when the guy is acquiring young players, and freeing cap space, how can you say it's Lebron or bust? Even if you don't get him, you are still in position to be a player in the free-agent and trade markets. The only thing left to do is to try to acquire a first round pick since we don't have ours. Don't let the media influence your mood. Look at our current situation. We are young, and have vets with short term contracts. Does this not look like every rebuilding team that has ever existed?

I just hope that people will like me
fishmike
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7/22/2009  12:49 PM
right... Avery coached the Mavs what? One year? Mullen has accomplished what in GS? Maybe your hoping he brings Baron Davis with him?

I'm sorry if I'm not impressed with the staff you have selected to build our franchise into greatness. I am always into hearing what guys on this board think of our moves and direction but if your going to kill our current management offer a better solution. Sorry, I just dont see it and the history isnt there either. Those guys have accomplished nothing.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
McK1
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7/22/2009  12:50 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

The only thing left to do is to try to acquire a first round pick since we don't have ours.

Walsh acquires a first next year or future firsts and I am back on the bandwagon
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
GodSaveTheKnicks
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7/22/2009  12:52 PM
Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
martin
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7/22/2009  12:53 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bippity10:

The only thing left to do is to try to acquire a first round pick since we don't have ours.

Walsh acquires a first next year or future firsts and I am back on the bandwagon

sometimes you do what you can, 1st rounders aren't given away. Walsh did acquire a first rounder this past year.
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fishmike
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7/22/2009  12:56 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bippity10:

The only thing left to do is to try to acquire a first round pick since we don't have ours.

Walsh acquires a first next year or future firsts and I am back on the bandwagon
does buying a first rounder in the last draft count for nothing? Time will tell with Douglas but he's a strong scorer/shooter and a lock down defender and fits into our style of play.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
McK1
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7/22/2009  12:56 PM
Posted by fishmike:

right... Avery coached the Mavs what? One year? Mullen has accomplished what in GS? Maybe your hoping he brings Baron Davis with him?

I'm sorry if I'm not impressed with the staff you have selected to build our franchise into greatness. I am always into hearing what guys on this board think of our moves and direction but if your going to kill our current management offer a better solution. Sorry, I just dont see it and the history isnt there either. Those guys have accomplished nothing.

try 3 and a quarter years and around 200 wins as head coach in that time frame

Mullin stole Baron. He drafted some busts like Diogu (whom I recall you loving at the time) and O'Brien but he also drafted Biedrins Ellis Randolph Wright, traded Murphy and Dunleavy for S Jax and Al, signed cheap serviceable talent like Turiaf Morrow Barnes Azabuike
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TMS
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7/22/2009  1:02 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bippity10:

The only thing left to do is to try to acquire a first round pick since we don't have ours.

Walsh acquires a first next year or future firsts and I am back on the bandwagon
does buying a first rounder in the last draft count for nothing? Time will tell with Douglas but he's a strong scorer/shooter and a lock down defender and fits into our style of play.

i personally think Toney Douglas is gonna be like Chris Childs & Charlie Ward combined into 1... very tough on ball defender, excellent help defender, will hit some clutch shots for us when it's all said & done, & fans will come to respect him for the effort he puts out on the court & the way he carries himself off the court, even tho he won't be wowing us w/his star potential anytime soon... i don't think he's gonna be a star or anything tho, more like a solid role player, but for a purchased late 1st round pick that's all i would ever realistically expect to begin with... anything more than that will be a bonus afaic.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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7/22/2009  1:04 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by fishmike:

MK... go ahead and tell me Dumars did a good trading Billups. Please go on record with that. The trade was a joke. He got NOTHING back. NOTHING. Billups then takes Denver to a game 7 against the Lakers. Dumars also set that franchise back 15 years in blowing that draft.

YES HE DID A GOOD THING TRADING BILLUPS

Billups was the NBA Finals MVP in 0 freaking 4. He got traded in 08 after years of flaming out in the ECF's. Meanwhile a vet team kept getting older and older and were clearly past the point of being able to compete for a title together.
Posted by fishmike:



You kill DW's plan and think he should go get someone like Baron Davis, but when Dumars dumps Billups and gets nothing back for the NBA finals MVP and one of the league's elite guards its ok because its "part of a bigger plan."

Pistons were at the end. Walsh is at the beginning. Walsh's Knicks won't sniff anywhere near where Dumars' teams have been at any point in his tenure with Ramon Sessions so yeah get a Baron

Posted by fishmike:

Colengelo? The guy that traded Kidd for Mabury? Whats he won?

He is also the guy who built the teams MDA won with.
Posted by fishmike:


Sorry.. you may disagree with DW's philosophy or be unimpressed by 14 out 17 years of playoffs (15 out of 15 if we are rounding) but Dumars is not a better GM. Dumars has a title. Thats a great accomplishment. Overall? Dumars is forced to rebuild because of his own mistakes. End of story. If Melo or Wade is on the roster, Billups is still there along with the rest. One blunder leads to another.

Billups was finished in Detroit plain and simple. You act as if he ressurrected Denver from the doldrums. They were already a 50 win team and a play-off team without there starting center and a gimpy starting pf. They got Martin and Nene back this year and had em healthy for a full season and voila - full potential of team recognized.

What has Walsh done the last 9 years to say he is currently better than Dumars?
Posted by fishmike:


I dont have a problem with you knocking DWs moves. Thats what fans do. But he's got a good body of work and he's not a middle of the road GM as you would imply. His body of work puts him up there among the best.

And when his name comes up for the Hall his entire body of work will be recognized. When we're talking about the last 3,5,7,9 years Walsh's track record over that time does not put him in the top 5 or 10 especially since he has been semi retired since 03.
Your views really surprise me. (I'm trying to be polite!) Billups is a darn good two way player with no serious flaws in his game. You should get WAY more than an expiring contract for him. We traded Nazr Mohammed with a well-run organization for an expiring contract and 2 late first round draft picks. For Billups they should have gotten the same (exp contract, 2 late 1st rounders) and at least one very good young prospect.
nyk4ever
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7/22/2009  1:07 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by fishmike:

right... Avery coached the Mavs what? One year? Mullen has accomplished what in GS? Maybe your hoping he brings Baron Davis with him?

I'm sorry if I'm not impressed with the staff you have selected to build our franchise into greatness. I am always into hearing what guys on this board think of our moves and direction but if your going to kill our current management offer a better solution. Sorry, I just dont see it and the history isnt there either. Those guys have accomplished nothing.

try 3 and a quarter years and around 200 wins as head coach in that time frame

Mullin stole Baron.
He drafted some busts like Diogu (whom I recall you loving at the time) and O'Brien but he also drafted Biedrins Ellis Randolph Wright, traded Murphy and Dunleavy for S Jax and Al, signed cheap serviceable talent like Turiaf Morrow Barnes Azabuike

I like Mullin but did he really steal b diddy? In the 2 years prior to being traded by the Hornets he played in 50 and 67 games and had missed a number of games the year he was traded. I'm pretty sure he was viewed as damaged goods - and still is.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
McK1
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7/22/2009  1:09 PM
edit: Future Hall of Fame guard Allen Iverson was coming off a season where he averaged

26pts 7 assts 2 stls got to the line 10 times a game and shot 45% from the field.

I wouldn't exactly call that a trade for an expiring contract.



[Edited by - McK1 on 07-22-2009 1:11 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bippity10
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7/22/2009  1:46 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bippity10:

The only thing left to do is to try to acquire a first round pick since we don't have ours.

Walsh acquires a first next year or future firsts and I am back on the bandwagon

If he's doing such a poor job, why would one unproven move change anything?
I just hope that people will like me
McK1
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7/22/2009  2:09 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bippity10:

The only thing left to do is to try to acquire a first round pick since we don't have ours.

Walsh acquires a first next year or future firsts and I am back on the bandwagon

If he's doing such a poor job, why would one unproven move change anything?

the surest way to lay the foundation for a rebuild is through the draft. the more picks you acquire the better your foundation.

then there is the other value of draft picks, they are tradeable and you don't have to worry about the CBA when trading them.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bippity10
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7/22/2009  2:18 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bippity10:

The only thing left to do is to try to acquire a first round pick since we don't have ours.

Walsh acquires a first next year or future firsts and I am back on the bandwagon

If he's doing such a poor job, why would one unproven move change anything?

the surest way to lay the foundation for a rebuild is through the draft. the more picks you acquire the better your foundation.

then there is the other value of draft picks, they are tradeable and you don't have to worry about the CBA when trading them.

Okay, so what is your point. Walsh bought an extra first rounder this year, and there is no indication that he doesn't want to get another one next year. So seeing that it wasn't his idea to get rid of the 2010 draft pick, why would you hold it against him? If that's the key indicator of him doing a good job or not hasn't he already shown that he understands the importance of draft picks? So other than drafting the guy that you think may, possibly, somehow, someday be better than Hill and Gallo. Or trading for the guy that you have decided is going to be the guy that leads us to the future. I'm not sure I understand what your complaint is.

Again our core consists of a #6, #8 and a #23 draft pick at the moment. How can you argue that we aren't currently building through the draft? Because we weren't bad enough this season to get the #1 pick?

A lot of arguments against Walsh seems to be based on him not drafting the guy that we deem to be a star.

Isn't he putting together the same young roster you say is the "surest way to lay the foundation for a rebuild"?

[Edited by - bippity10 on 22-07-2009 2:20 PM]
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McK1
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7/22/2009  2:35 PM
I am holding not having an 010 pick against him? ha...now you''re reaching!

Walsh can take on salary and still not FUBAR the cap.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bippity10
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7/22/2009  2:41 PM
Posted by McK1:

I am holding not having an 010 pick against him? ha...now you''re reaching!

Walsh can take on salary and still not FUBAR the cap.

Reaching? If you are back on the bandwagon if he gets a 2010 pick, then you are holding accountable if he is unable to do so. No?
I just hope that people will like me
McK1
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7/22/2009  3:11 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by McK1:

I am holding not having an 010 pick against him? ha...now you''re reaching!

Walsh can take on salary and still not FUBAR the cap.

Reaching? If you are back on the bandwagon if he gets a 2010 pick, then you are holding accountable if he is unable to do so. No?

"first next year or future firsts..." I will hold Walsh accountable if deals come up during the season where he could.ve used the ending contracts to acquire picks by offering a cash strapped team cap relief but didn't want to jeopardize the chance to sign Lebron
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
nyk4ever
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7/22/2009  3:43 PM


"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Walsh/MDA

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