Solace - why is it so important that you must insult someone for an opinion?

It's interesting that your feel compelled to add that everyone "likes" nixluva and that you think he is (cough) intelligent. I would hate to see the response if he was not "liked" and you thought he was stupid.

Is this a place where opinion can be shared freely...

...or some restricted place where opinion must be filtered to conform to the oh-so-fashionable pessimistic rantings of the self-proclaimed "experts" so you don't get insulted?

supwitdat?

(Biggie: "I luv it when you call me Big Papi")

Codeunknown - are these fans Knicks men or Knicks mice?

sheesh

Posted by misterearl:

(Biggie: "I luv it when you call me Big Papi")

Codeunknown - are these fans Knicks men or Knicks mice?

sheesh

Nixluva stereotypes posters and doesn't even appear to strive for objectivity. supwitdat?

(Tupac: "I ain't mad at cha")

Posted by BasketballJones:

The problem is that most of the posters on this site are Layden lovers. They never got over losing Layden. They miss Howard Eisley, Clarence Weatherspoon, and Shandon Anderson. They are angry at Dolan for firing Layden and angry at Isiah for replacing him.

There's many a time I've seen posts saying "Boy, I sure miss Scott Layden" and "If only we had Howard Eisley back". Unfortunately, this site has no search feature so I can't find the quotes, but they are there.

This is some funny stuff.

There's no sense in worry about the negativity on this board. It's New York. The fans hated Ewing, starks, Houston... everyone. The only thing this city cares about is WINNING. A championship gets you exactly 3 months of love-- then it's back to the hate by training camp.

You're in the minority if you think that patience and positivity are more pleasant ways to follow a team. It's easy to see why this city eats so many of us alive. Sucess and negativity are seldom in the same place.

babyknicks - I don't have to tell you things are bad.

Everybody knows things are bad.

It’s a rebuilding thing. Keith Van Horn, Clarence Weatherspoon and Shandon Anderson are all out of work, and Dikembe Mutombo is scared of losing his job.

The salary cap is blown to smithereens and thye playoffs are a distant memory from seven years ago.

Referees are on the six o'clock news. Mike Vick is in deep ca-ca and Lindsay Lohan is on crack.

Chicken-liver hearts trashing the Knicks are running wild, and nobody knows what to do. There’s no end to it.

We know the ownership is unfit and the courtside seats are out of djsu's price range.

We sit watching Marbury proclaim he's the world's greatest point guard, and trash him as if that’s the way he really thinks.

We knew Felton Spencer and Travis Knight were bad. Worse than bad. They were crazy bad.

Everything is going crazy, so we don’t have faith in the yoots like Wilson Chadler, Randolph Morris, Demetris Nichols or even 24 year-old Eddy Curry anymore.

We sit in the house, and our perspective on the world only gets smaller.

All we say is "Please, at least leave us alone with our keyboards."

"Let me have my internet connection and my TV and I won’t say anything positive about the Knicks. Just leave me alone to bitch and moan."

Well, I’m not going to leave you alone. I want the real Knicks fans to get mad!

I don’t want you to protest or riot. I don't want you to write to Marc Berman's blog.

I don’t know what to do about the manic-depressives, the crybabies or the whiners.

All I know is that first you’ve got to be proud to wear the orange and blue!

You’ve gotta say "I’m a freakin' Knicks fan, goddammit! My opinion has value!"

So... I want you to get up now.

I want all of you to get up out from behind your keyboards. Or if you dare, read a book or go on a freakin' vacation because it's freakin' July!

I want you loyal Knicks fans to get up right now and go to the window,

open it and stick your head out and yell

"I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take this whining any more!"

I'm mad as hell

and I'm not gunna take being a wimpy Knicks fan anymore

Posted by misterearl:

babyknicks - I don't have to tell you things are bad.

We knew Felton Spencer and Travis Knight were bad. Worse than bad. They were crazy bad.

There you go again misterearl.

There's nothing wrong with America.

Or Felton Spencer.



(I was only able to find one image of Travis Knight from Knick days. Pretty sad when you consider the magnitude of his contribution to the Knicks franchise.)




[Edited by - basketballjones on 07-25-2007 22:28]

Posted by nixluva:

This is what I have to say to Code and Solace. All Code had to do was post his stats about the Knicks shooting to support his point of view. He chose to do that several insulting posts later in the thread long after I had posted my points. If he had this in mind from the get go then he need only have put that down when he responded initially. Instead he chose to insult me and basically not provide any support for his claim. You see that's how it's supposed to work. I say what I feel, if i'm challenged I post why I feel I'm right. Then you respond in kind.

He feels the career trends are more important and I don't. I happen to think that players can and do improve in certain areas of the game and that often it belies the career avg's. I happen to think that there are many reasons why this can happen. It could be a coaching change and new style of play, it could just be that the player worked on that area of his game more than in the past. I'm not stuck on the convention that the past is a predictor of the future.

We don't have to agree. I happen to think this Knicks teams will have a tighter rotation and one that will make use of our better shooters. Something that didn't always happen last year for various reasons. I believe that with 2 players that will draw more attention that our perimeter shooters will get even better looks and thus their shooting % will improve. I could be wrong but that's how I think.

Nix, it seems like every post of yours is a smokescreen - somehow any criticism makes the situation "hopeless." That was never what I meant - I merely pointed out a weakness that needs to be addressed - in my opinion, by the front office.

Some of your posts really do look like outright spin - how can you in seriousness post only the stats for the 3 best shooters last season in a discussion about poor team 3pt shooting? And your view of team improvement is almost like a fantasy stream-of-consciousness - almost nothing is based on empirical performance. In the spirit of compromise, however, I'll say this; I agree with the last part of your post, Zach will create more open looks.

Posted by codeunknown:

Nix, it seems like every post of yours is a smokescreen - somehow any criticism makes the situation "hopeless." That was never what I meant - I merely pointed out a weakness that needs to be addressed - in my opinion, by the front office.

Some of your posts really do look like outright spin - how can you in seriousness post only the stats for the 3 best shooters last season in a discussion about poor team 3pt shooting? And your view of team improvement is almost like a fantasy stream-of-consciousness - almost nothing is based on empirical performance. In the spirit of compromise, however, I'll say this; I agree with the last part of your post, Zach will create more open looks.

When you say that our shooting "is pathetic". I felt that this was a bit over the top, so my choice in words was equally over the top. To say that our shooting is pathetic would suggest that the situation is in effect hopeless, cuz you don't believe it's gonna be good enough to keep doubles off of our post players. You certainly didn't choose a word that left much room for any other interpretation.

Then you back up your statement by mentioning that our team 3pt shooting ranked 23rd in the league at 34.6%. That's fine, but not all of those players who are included in that calculation are guys who take the majority of our 3's. Statistically the players on our team that shoot the most 3's happen to be Jamal 5.5 per, Q 5.3, Steph 4.7 and Nate 3.3. No one else on the team avg's even one 3 per game. So to me it's not the team 3pt % we should be most want concerned with. Jamal, Q, Steph & Nate would avg out at 36% 3pt shooting and to me Jamal can and will shoot better than the 32% he shot last year.

Have I taken an optimistic view of our shooting? Yes, but then i'm factoring that there will be greater emphasis on it from now on. We're solidly a 3pt and post up team now in terms of attack. We'll want to stretch defenses as far as possible and that means our guards will get a lot of practice shooting 3's this year. I expect that the results will be higher %'s.

[Edited by - nixluva on 07-25-2007 11:31 PM]

[Edited by - nixluva on 07-26-2007 09:00 AM]

For that matter, it could implode from day one.

Isiah loses his cool during a layup drill and ticks off Marbury who in turn pouts to the media.

The media picks up on it and proclaims "Marbury is fed up with New York"

Zach Randolph gets a phone call from a distant cousin who reads the paper without his glasses and reads the headline as, "Randolph is fed up with New York"

As a result Randolph demands to be traded and gets in a shoving match with David Lee, (who, coincidentally is spotted in the East Village at 3AM one Sunday by The Post) that alienates Z-Bo from 98% of the Knicks fan base. Lee is invited to be the Grand Marshall for the 2008 Pride March.

A distracted David Lee steps on Wilson Chandler's foot and Chandler is lost for the season.

The NBA determines that Isiah had a conversation with Randolph Morris' parents in violation of the "tampering with college kid" policy and his contract is voided. Morris joins the Harlem Globetrotters.

Jamal's leg, due to lack of exercise, begins to atrophy and Q throws his back out attempting a two-hand reverse dunk in a post-practice game of horse with Nate

It could all fall apart.

Or it could slowly come together.

Nobody knows.

Anyone among the always-entertaining, "I'm through with the Knicks" crew can always change the channel.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by codeunknown:

Nix, it seems like every post of yours is a smokescreen - somehow any criticism makes the situation "hopeless." That was never what I meant - I merely pointed out a weakness that needs to be addressed - in my opinion, by the front office.

Some of your posts really do look like outright spin - how can you in seriousness post only the stats for the 3 best shooters last season in a discussion about poor team 3pt shooting? And your view of team improvement is almost like a fantasy stream-of-consciousness - almost nothing is based on empirical performance. In the spirit of compromise, however, I'll say this; I agree with the last part of your post, Zach will create more open looks.

When you say that our shooting "is pathetic". I felt that this was a bit over the top, so my choice in words was equally over the top. To say that our shooting is pathetic would suggest that the situation is in effect hopeless, cuz you don't believe it's gonna be good enough to keep doubles off of our post players. You certainly didn't choose a word that left much room for any other interpretation.

Then you back up your statement by mentioning that our team 3pt shooting ranked 23rd in the league at 34.6%. That's fine, but not all of those players who are included in that calculation are guys who take the majority of our 3's. Statistically the players on our team that shoot the most 3's happen to be Jamal 5.5 per, Q 5.3, Steph 4.7 and Nate 3.3. No one else on the team avg's even one 3 per game. So to me it's not the team 3pt % we should be most want concerned with. Jamal, Q, Steph & Nate would avg out at 36% 3pt shooting and to me Jamal can and will shoot better than the 32% he shot last year.

Have I taken an optimistic view of our shooting? Yes, but then i'm factoring that there will be greater emphasis on it from now on. We're solidly a 3pt and post up team now in terms of attack. We'll want to stretch defenses as far as possible and that means our guards will get a lot of practice shooting 3's this year. I expect that the results will be higher %'s.

[Edited by - nixluva on 07-25-2007 11:31 PM]

[Edited by - nixluva on 07-26-2007 09:00 AM]

First of all, Nix, your understanding of the concept of an average seems to be severely lacking. Read Franco's post. The average is the total 3s made/total 3s taken, regardless of who takes them. It is not the mere average of the individual player averages, rather the team average amounts to a weighted average of the player averages. So the distribution of shots among players is accounted for. This is very basic and it shouldn't be beyond your grasp. As a result, it IS the team 3pt shooting average we're concerned with. Moreover, it should concern you that Nate and Q are among our "best" shooters because 1 is a marginal player and the other has a horrendous injury history. If anything, the potential absence of those players is likely to worsen our average.

Your disregard for career numbers is equally alarming, especially since you counter with nothing except a hope for improvement. Expecting career bests for all of our players is likely to leave you very disappointed.

Lastly, a rank of 23rd out of 30 teams is pathetic. There's nothing over the top about that. And, frankly, its not your "over the top words" that concern me. Its your skewed presentation of the facts.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by franco12:

Posted by nixluva:


When you say that our shooting "is pathetic". I felt that this was a bit over the top, so my choice in words was equally over the top. To say that our shooting is pathetic would suggest that the situation is in effect hopeless, cuz you don't believe it's gonna be good enough to keep doubles off of our post players. You certainly didn't choose a word that left much room for any other interpretation.

Then you back up your statement by mentioning that our team 3pt shooting ranked 23rd in the league at 34.6%. That's fine, but not all of those players who are included in that calculation are guys who take the majority of our 3's. Statistically the players on our team that shoot the most 3's happen to be Jamal 5.5 per, Q 5.3, Steph 4.7 and Nate 3.3. No one else on the team avg's even one 3 per game. So to me it's not the team 3pt % we should be most want concerned with. Jamal, Q, Steph & Nate would avg out at 36% 3pt shooting and to me Jamal can and will shoot better than the 32% he shot last year.

ITS CALLED AVERAGE. And the guys who take a majority of our 3's contributed the most to that team average.

And Jamal should shoot better than 32%- but in his entire 7 YEAR NBA Career, he has yet to shoot over 36% for a full season. And that was with LB at the helm.

And if Crawford does shoot 36%- that is still weak, given how many open looks he is going to see when players double on Curry & Zach.

It still doesn't make sense to look at the team avg and assume that we can't be effective from the perimeter. Guys that are included in that team avg really don't take 3's on a regular basis. Just go and look at the numbers rather than argue this point. Do you realize that if Jamal shot just 35% this year the combined avg of JC, Q, Steph & Nate would've been 36.8%? That's not the best, but it's good enough to be effective. The guys who will really be shooting in our system have a higher shooting % and that's what I was pointing out.

The fact that Jamal has yet to shoot over 36% from 3 may be as a result of the type of 3's he's been taking. If you've ever watched the guy, he clearly shoots better when he's set and receives the ball in the flow of the offense. I believe that our offense will now call for more setup 3's to be taken. Guys will be in a postition to catch and shoot as the defense scrambles to get back. In that type of offense I expect shooting %'s to go up. WHY? Because your shooting form is better when you're not under as much pressure. Guys will be able to focus just a bit more and that will help a good deal.

I'm happy that Isiah has added Chandler and Nichols, cuz they look like guys that will be able to knock down open 3's.

Look- the fact is that with as many open looks as Curry generated, Crawford should have shot WAY above 32%.

He didn't because he is a volume shooter. He's a bit like John Starks, but without the incredible defense.

With Curry & Zach, we need a guy who can shoot 40%++ from 3pt land.

Our best hope for that kind of performance is from Nate, Nichols & Chandler.

Crawford has never shown he can be anything but streaky and inconsistent. The only consistency to Crawford's game is bad defense and streaky shooting.

Nate is at best a bench player and Nichols & Chandler are both rookies.