Posted by Ira:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by RemBee76:

Those who identify themselves as "haters" will tell you that it isn't about patience, it’s the method of rebuilding the team they didn't like. 33 wins would be ok, they'll tell you, if we had a team mostly of drafted young players with a low salary.

This is, of course, BS. No guarantee had we been drafting high in the lottery these past few years that we would be any closer to having a super-star on this team than we do now. Seven years of losing is still seven years of losing, and the "haters" would by complaining just as loudly about our second or third year players as they do now about, say, Zach Randolph, who hasn't even put on a Knick uniform yet.

Not every first rounder is a Tim Duncan or a LeBron James. Who is to say that the "haters" would give any drafted players more time that they gave Channing Frye, a player who was a "bust" and "cooked" two games into his second season as a Knick. They wouldn't, of course. And that highlights the true hypocrisy of their position...They claim they'd be in the boat for a patient rebuild, but their attitude feeds the Mark Bermans, the Mike and Mad Dogs and leads to the empty seats and booing in MSG, all of which send the message to Dolan loud and F'ing clear that we can not rebuild in New York.

That is such a load of BS.

There's no such thing as a guarantee but the Knicks would be in much better shape if they had accumulated lottery picks the past 4 years and cut salary instead of adding it. You constantly hear that the Knicks don't have the assets necessary to make a trade for a superstar. If they had gone the other direction, they very likely would have the assets. A combination from Bynum and Granger, Roy and Gay and Noah, Law, Young and Thornton, would have been a nice start. And chances are they would have had better lottery position if they had gutted the team.

And they could have managed the cap to be in position to sign 2 top free agents in a year or 2 if they wanted to keep try to keep their draft picks.

What hypocrisy? Knicks fans have been ridiculously patient with Isiah, even though he's not looking for a patient rebuild. I'm pretty sure that Isiah was the one who gave up on Frye, not the fans. Isiah was the one that coached him like he was an afterthought and he was the one that traded him away less than 2 years after he said that Frye was the best big man in his draft and would have taken him with the #1 overall pick.

If the Knicks were all young and growing together, instead of a group of overpaid and underachieving stat whores, they would be afforded more time to grow. When you have the highest payroll and every move they make screams that they're trying to win now, expectations rise and people have less patience.

The best players to switch teams this year have been Ray Allen, Jason Richardson, Rashard Lewis and Zach Randolph. So I guess we got one of them without being under the cap. Now which of those four players is the youngest? It's Zach. And who did we give to get Zach? Channing Frye and Steve Francis. And we did this while being over the cap.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Ira:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by RemBee76:

Those who identify themselves as "haters" will tell you that it isn't about patience, it’s the method of rebuilding the team they didn't like. 33 wins would be ok, they'll tell you, if we had a team mostly of drafted young players with a low salary.

This is, of course, BS. No guarantee had we been drafting high in the lottery these past few years that we would be any closer to having a super-star on this team than we do now. Seven years of losing is still seven years of losing, and the "haters" would by complaining just as loudly about our second or third year players as they do now about, say, Zach Randolph, who hasn't even put on a Knick uniform yet.

Not every first rounder is a Tim Duncan or a LeBron James. Who is to say that the "haters" would give any drafted players more time that they gave Channing Frye, a player who was a "bust" and "cooked" two games into his second season as a Knick. They wouldn't, of course. And that highlights the true hypocrisy of their position...They claim they'd be in the boat for a patient rebuild, but their attitude feeds the Mark Bermans, the Mike and Mad Dogs and leads to the empty seats and booing in MSG, all of which send the message to Dolan loud and F'ing clear that we can not rebuild in New York.

That is such a load of BS.

There's no such thing as a guarantee but the Knicks would be in much better shape if they had accumulated lottery picks the past 4 years and cut salary instead of adding it. You constantly hear that the Knicks don't have the assets necessary to make a trade for a superstar. If they had gone the other direction, they very likely would have the assets. A combination from Bynum and Granger, Roy and Gay and Noah, Law, Young and Thornton, would have been a nice start. And chances are they would have had better lottery position if they had gutted the team.

And they could have managed the cap to be in position to sign 2 top free agents in a year or 2 if they wanted to keep try to keep their draft picks.

What hypocrisy? Knicks fans have been ridiculously patient with Isiah, even though he's not looking for a patient rebuild. I'm pretty sure that Isiah was the one who gave up on Frye, not the fans. Isiah was the one that coached him like he was an afterthought and he was the one that traded him away less than 2 years after he said that Frye was the best big man in his draft and would have taken him with the #1 overall pick.

If the Knicks were all young and growing together, instead of a group of overpaid and underachieving stat whores, they would be afforded more time to grow. When you have the highest payroll and every move they make screams that they're trying to win now, expectations rise and people have less patience.

The best players to switch teams this year have been Ray Allen, Jason Richardson, Rashard Lewis and Zach Randolph. So I guess we got one of them without being under the cap. Now which of those four players is the youngest? It's Zach. And who did we give to get Zach? Channing Frye and Steve Francis. And we did this while being over the cap.

In the dictionary next to "Overpaid Stat Whore Loser", there's a picture of Zach.

Posted by BigSm00th:

z-bo is going to put up 25/11 next year in the EC and curry can still get his 20/7. (are ppl realizing ewing was putting up 25/11 in his prime?)

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Bippity10:

Knicks lovers have less faith in the team than the "haters" do. I personally look at the roster and see all the talent and think there is no way this team should not be a playoff team. Only their heads can prevent a playoff birth.

Meanwhile the "lovers" who don't have faith in the team are already setting themselves up for the excuse making.

WHo are you referring to? I may have missed these posts, but I don't recall anyone that is a supporter of this roster saying anything that sounds like they are bracing for failure and thus need excuses ready to be used.

I don't see how Tor is so superior to us. They already had tons of shooting and then they add two more guys in Delfino and Kapono that are mainly shooters. From what I can see they still should be pretty much what they were. I think Mo Pete was a better defender than either Delfino or Kapono, by a long shot. They still only have one really good penetrator in TJ Ford. Not unless I missed someone they added. They still don't seem like a good playoff team to me. They'll do well in the regular season IMO, but I think they'll run into a wall again in the post season. Even with an improved Bargnani.

NJ is always tough, but I don't see them being as strong defensively as they once were and I don't know if they have what it takes anymore to be the dominant team they once were. They're good tho and since they have Kidd they'll continue to be at the top of the Atlantic if healthy. Now tho they have much stiffer competition.

Boston is a hard one to figure. They should be much improved with Ray Allen. Al and Pierce needed some help and he's plenty. They still won't be able to defend and thus I think they'll be in our boat along with the rest of the weak defending Atlantic.

Philly is up and coming, but i'm not yet convinced that they've made a major step based on the late surge they had. We'll see how that translates over 82 games. They've got some talent, but I think they're gonna be at the back of the bus this year. I think the rest of the Atlantic improved a bit more than they have.

The Knicks have been helped a good deal by the addition of Zach. It makes us a tough team to deal with for 4 qtrs, cuz we can always have a stud in the game that can focus our attack. I think we shoud find it easier to stick with a rotation minus Francis and Frye. Steph, Q, Jared, Zach & Curry - Lee, Jamal, Balkman would seem to give us most of what we need. We'll have a very good bench as well. We should continue to be strong on the boards and in the paint. Plus I expect better shooting from the perimeter this year.

Posted by MS:

i understand that but if you look at a shots per game breakdown your going to see q, jamal, eddy, steph are going to get 50 shots a game between them, dlee, balkman and collins are going to get 15-20 zach is going to get about 14 i think you are being overly optimistic here. He gets us 16pts 10rbs i am happy your not getting above 40pts from the 4/5 starters