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Knicks Fire Brown
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TheSage
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6/22/2006  1:42 PM
Posted by NYK3:

I have a feeling a lot of Knicks fans (not necessarily anyone on here) are gonna root for us to suck next year just so Isiah gets the boot

We knew it was coming even tho most intelligent thinking fans held out hope.
We are now entirely in the hands of people who who have never managed a winning operation.
The likelihood is that there will be a few more wins than last season and the spin doctors at MSG will proclaim "improvement" "a team on the rise"

A coach with a history of accomplishment is dismissed because he didn't adhere to lucky sperm club member Dolan, an alltime great announcer is likewise let go

Our only hope is that Jim's Dad decides that that the ROI of the knicks is pulling the price of cablevision stock down and must be removed from the corporate structure or for estate planning purposes must be removed from the portfolio to buy back Charlie's stock.
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TheSage
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6/22/2006  1:44 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by McK1:

if he is fired that means Brown can coach.

Berman speculating MJ will give him a call

Larry can coach, but only when the conditions are right and the players are to his liking. Guys like Riley and Parcells can coach almost anyone. That's why they are great coaches, and Larry is only a very good one.



Riley and Parcells both have a history of removing pieces they don't want, bring in guys to steady the team and then acquire the pieces necessary to win. Gee, doesn't that sound like a now former knick coach.
OngBok
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6/22/2006  1:45 PM
SAS states that if the Knicks can win 15 mores games then last year, then IT is successful !!!!
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
rvhoss
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6/22/2006  1:46 PM
IMHO...if you are rebuilding you let them play and learn.
you let them foul out...you let them get tired...you let them play.
especially in a rebuilding situation.

Looking at the numbers, I think that I am inclined to agree that Frye played enough minutes. He put up better numbers than bogut in 3 less minutes and made first team all rookie.

But I think he could have and should have been much much better.

Something to the tone of rookie of the year.

He showed flashes and if you read my posts, I agreed with LB's use of the roster this year if he was planning to stick with it, but the public pissing match is what rubbed me the wrong way.

LB coached great if we didn't have a unprotected draft pick out there, for $10 million a year our coach should have won atleast another 10 games to atleast save the franchise some face.

I mean, would that have set us back a few years had he won atlest 10 more games?
all kool aid all the time.
Bippity10
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6/22/2006  1:47 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Hey Bip, you ever notice that people don't generally understand where you stand...You notice everyone thinks you are against the players and Isiah and only support Brown...You notice that you get into heated arguments trying to expalin where you stand...You notice everyone says you say one thing then turn around and say another...You notice you have to tell everyone they are not reading your post...What are the chances it's not everyone and it's really you...What are the chances of that..



[Edited by - holfresh on 06-22-2006 1:02 PM]

There is a reason for that. Unless you blame one guy and target them all season SOME people call you a flipflopper or a lover or a hater. I don't operate that way. I'm not like the guys that blame it all on LB. I'm not like the guys that blame it all on Marbury. I'm not like the guys that blame it all on Zeke. I call it the way I see it. When Marbs messes up I say so. When LB messes up I say so. When Zeke messes up I say so. When they make a smart move I support them on that move. Because I know that for the Knicks to improve it has to be about the Knicks. It has to be a team effort. It can't be about the individual. It has to be about an organization deciding on a plan and sticking with that plan instead of trading the roster every year and firing the coach. This idea of the ORGANIZATION HAS NEVER CHANGED WITH ME.

The reality is most people on this site know exactly where I am coming from. Even those that disagree with me at least take the time to read the posts and understand where I'm coming from. I respect that. But there are about 10 obvious posters that are so obsessed with Marbs or LB or Zeke that the moment you say something negative against "their guy" or positive for "the other guy" they tune out and call you a hater or a lover. I mistakenly lumped some really good posters into this category. It's really only a couple people that respond this way.

I can't seem to think of another explanation for when I type "we won 23 games last year, the coach sucked, the GM sucked and the players sucked. As an organization we need to make changes". And then someone else responds "Larry lover". I act paranoid and pretend to wonder why my posts keep gettin confused but the reality is that I know why it get's confused(see reasons above), am not paranoid in the least about my typing abilities and could care less. People just have a hard time understanding sarcasm in print. I need to take more advantage of the little smilies.

I just hope that people will like me
Andrew
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6/22/2006  1:47 PM
Posted by OngBok:

SAS states that if the Knicks can win 15 mores games then last year, then IT is successful !!!!

Depends....if we win 15 more and are closer to competing for a championship then yeah IT is successfull. If we win 15 more games and do so in a way that that really doesn't make the team as a whole better....then I can't say I would agree.
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TheSage
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6/22/2006  1:48 PM
Posted by realhiphop:

Well put. I also looked at this from a rational standpoint. I look at track records and past success to predict future success. Larry had that, Isiah is a management failure. How does Dolan run Cablevision with that brain?
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Anji:

Man I feel like it's chirstmas morning waking up and finding this out...

Yeah but why do we as fans get coal every year?

Isiah and Dolan should be shot. Regardless of LB's performance last year, his track record is overwhelmingly positive and as an investor of any kind you always consider the long-term. Regardless of whether you like Larry, LB is a better coach than Isiah for this team and I think 1 year is insufficient to evaluate the effectiveness of Brown's methods. That said, this move is pretty bad. Still, its not disasterous because we have enough young potential on this team that it would be hard not to get better.

Jim Dolan doesn't run Cablevision -his father does
rvhoss
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6/22/2006  1:52 PM
If we keep the same team in tact and only trade expiring contracts or players acquired at last year's trading deadline (or both) then it will have been a true success.

If we bring in a major piece and/or lose any of my elite eight players than 15 more wins is a big fat failure.

But it will be perceived across the coutry as a success. 15 more wins is 15 more wins, regardless of the previous year's circumstances, but as a knick fan my dream scenario involves getting Reezy back.
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by OngBok:

SAS states that if the Knicks can win 15 mores games then last year, then IT is successful !!!!

Depends....if we win 15 more and are closer to competing for a championship then yeah IT is successfull. If we win 15 more games and do so in a way that that really doesn't make the team as a whole better....then I can't say I would agree.

all kool aid all the time.
Rich
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6/22/2006  1:52 PM
Posted by TheSage:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by McK1:

if he is fired that means Brown can coach.

Berman speculating MJ will give him a call

Larry can coach, but only when the conditions are right and the players are to his liking. Guys like Riley and Parcells can coach almost anyone. That's why they are great coaches, and Larry is only a very good one.



Riley and Parcells both have a history of removing pieces they don't want, bring in guys to steady the team and then acquire the pieces necessary to win. Gee, doesn't that sound like a now former knick coach.

Two points:

1) Who was the guy that Riley brought into the Knicks to steady the team?

Riley wasn't thrilled with Anthony Mason, but he dealt with him the best he could.

A lot of people think that Parcells didn't want T.O., but he'll make the most out of his presence on the roster.

2) Brown knew about the roster inflexibility before he got here. His eyes should have been wide open.
holfresh
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6/22/2006  1:57 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

See my problem is this. Who cares that Larry went behind Isiah to make trades when Isiah has been fleeced on every trade he has made! Why are you guys backing Isiah when he hasn't made one good trade move since he's been here. Larry knew this and went behind to make better moves.

What I can't understand is why are you defending Brown when his obviously tanked the season and sabotaged the organization...Sound like you are a Brown fan first and a Knick fan second...
gr33d
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6/22/2006  1:59 PM
They were just commenting on how people (in Curry's camp) felt Brown was basicall bringing him down. He fought to get in shape but the inconsistant minutes/rotation was demoralizing.

Brandon countered those comments by basically saying Curry got fatter throughout the season.

One thing they agreed on: Curry's improvement will be critical this year.
"If you ain't first, you're last" - Ricky Bobby
martin
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6/22/2006  1:59 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by TheSage:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by McK1:

if he is fired that means Brown can coach.

Berman speculating MJ will give him a call

Larry can coach, but only when the conditions are right and the players are to his liking. Guys like Riley and Parcells can coach almost anyone. That's why they are great coaches, and Larry is only a very good one.



Riley and Parcells both have a history of removing pieces they don't want, bring in guys to steady the team and then acquire the pieces necessary to win. Gee, doesn't that sound like a now former knick coach.

Two points:

1) Who was the guy that Riley brought into the Knicks to steady the team?

Riley wasn't thrilled with Anthony Mason, but he dealt with him the best he could.

A lot of people think that Parcells didn't want T.O., but he'll make the most out of his presence on the roster.

2) Brown knew about the roster inflexibility before he got here. His eyes should have been wide open.

Riles really wasn't GM of the Knicks and he already did have Ewing and Oak. And Mason WAS kicked for LJ.
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holfresh
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6/22/2006  2:04 PM

People saying Dolan went into the meeting not wanting to fire Brown but wanted him to change but Brown balked...Got pissed and fired him...
misterearl
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6/22/2006  2:04 PM
Like then man said... Larry is old news
once a knick always a knick
Rich
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6/22/2006  2:07 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by TheSage:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by McK1:

if he is fired that means Brown can coach.

Berman speculating MJ will give him a call

Larry can coach, but only when the conditions are right and the players are to his liking. Guys like Riley and Parcells can coach almost anyone. That's why they are great coaches, and Larry is only a very good one.



Riley and Parcells both have a history of removing pieces they don't want, bring in guys to steady the team and then acquire the pieces necessary to win. Gee, doesn't that sound like a now former knick coach.

Two points:

1) Who was the guy that Riley brought into the Knicks to steady the team?

Riley wasn't thrilled with Anthony Mason, but he dealt with him the best he could.

A lot of people think that Parcells didn't want T.O., but he'll make the most out of his presence on the roster.

2) Brown knew about the roster inflexibility before he got here. His eyes should have been wide open.

Riles really wasn't GM of the Knicks and he already did have Ewing and Oak. And Mason WAS kicked for LJ.

Rght, and neither was Brown. Obviously, Riley inherited a more talented team, but my point about adjusting is that the style of play he employed wasn't the "Showtime" offense that he used in LA. In other words, he adapted to the personnel.

LJ didn't come here until the '96-'97 season, so Riley was stuck with Mason '91-92 through '95-'96.
crzymdups
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6/22/2006  2:08 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by OngBok:

SAS is discussing LB discussing trades behind IT's back.

LB has done this his entire career, so this is nothing new. You can say that LB had discussions with other teams without explicit instructions about who to trade for whom and characterize that as "behind IT's back" or you can say that LB also entered into discussions. Same thing I guess.

LOTS of coaches do this. Some don't. Some more than others cause they carry a bigger juice card.

my god, the excuses people make for Larry Brown.
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holfresh
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6/22/2006  2:09 PM

One scenario: A league GM talking trade with Isiah on line 1...Secretary rings in saying Larry is on line 2 with a different trade proposal...Nice...
rvhoss
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6/22/2006  2:10 PM
like throwing in reezy in a trade for francis when the salaries already matched up.
all kool aid all the time.
holfresh
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6/22/2006  2:11 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

like throwing in reezy in a trade for francis when the salaries already matched up.


All I want to know is can we get Reezy back now...



[Edited by - holfresh on 06-22-2006 2:11 PM]
Rich
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6/22/2006  2:11 PM
Posted by holfresh:


One scenario: A league GM talking trade with Isiah on line 1...Secretary rings in saying Larry is on line 2 with a different trade proposal...Nice...

That's kind of what used to happen when Steinbrenner had two GMs in the '80s.
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