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What exactly has Isiah done as an executive anywhere
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islesfan
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1/12/2006  5:28 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by islesfan:

I think you judge a GM from his first moves and that's exactly what I've done with Isiah after he made the Marbury deal.

Listen to that statement and then read this:

Dumars' first season at the player personnel helm had some people scratching their heads. He traded Hill for Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins. He sent Hunter to Milwaukee for Billy Owens. The Pistons finished an ugly 32-50

http://www.nba.com/finals2004/pistons_040617.html

Based on your logic, you would have called for Dumars' head.

I don't know, did Dumars trade away 2 potential lottery picks, large expiring contracts, young prospects who had trade value and take back close to $200 million in those deals?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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fishmike
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1/12/2006  5:35 PM
no but be fair... Isiah didnt trade Grant Hill away either. Hill was a top 5 NBA player at the time. A bonafide superstar. We gave up Eisley, Ward, McDyess, Lampe, Vujanic a pick that became Luke Jackson and another conditional #1 for Marbury. Seemed like a lot at the time but Isiah has proven to be a good judge of young talent (see Frye, et al). Has anyone even seen Lampe?

I agree with you that we certainly put our eggs into a basket named Marburcurryfryinlee, but we could have done a lot worse. I'm willing to see how it pans out. Just no more Jerome Jameses... PLEASE.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rvhoss
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1/12/2006  6:16 PM
this is getting good.
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misterearl
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1/12/2006  6:51 PM
>simrud
Posts:Quote IT def made some bad moves. He made some moves on which the jury is still out. I personally don't like him and think we can find a better GM. And no misterearl it has nothing to do with the fact that IT is black so before you start your racist this racist that nonsense again just stop. I'll take Dumars as my GM anyday.

Simrud - I CHALLENGE you to identify ONE SINGLE (date and number please) post where I have mentioned race. If you cannot do that, I would invite you to retract your post.

Better check yourself.

Forum moderator, can I please have an apology coupon?

> As I've said in the past, I think 2+ years is a reasonable amount of time to judge whether Isiah has established a solid foundation with the ability to add major pieces in the near future. He hasn't.

Islesfan - the qusetion was NOT about the time to establish a "solid foundation". How do you define a "solid foundation" in measurable terms?

An Eastern Finals or NBA Finals was suggested as a benchmark that is clear.

So, what you are saying is that Isiah is a failure if the Knicks don't reach the Eastern Finals this season?

If not, what is the ETA? What year?

C'mon, the more you evade the question, the slimier you look to the rest of the readers. Then again, that's what a good politician does habitually.

Bugs Bunny: Persistent ain't I?
once a knick always a knick
martin
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1/12/2006  7:24 PM
yo earl, fill it in yourself

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misterearl
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1/12/2006  7:45 PM
Martin - you rock. (sucking up to the host alert) Have I told you that you're doing a helluva job?

Isn't the person (SIMRUD) who violated the Forum code of ethics and falsely attached the MIS-quote to my name supposed to endorse it and LOSE fifteen poster points in the process?

Is a suspension in order?

Doesn't Simrud need to do extra laps or something?

No justice.. No peace.
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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1/12/2006  7:46 PM
SOMEBODY CALL THE SHERRIFF!

I've been shot by Simrud!
once a knick always a knick
sbb30
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1/13/2006  5:38 AM

Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by islesfan:

I think you judge a GM from his first moves and that's exactly what I've done with Isiah after he made the Marbury deal.

Listen to that statement and then read this:

Dumars' first season at the player personnel helm had some people scratching their heads. He traded Hill for Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins. He sent Hunter to Milwaukee for Billy Owens. The Pistons finished an ugly 32-50

http://www.nba.com/finals2004/pistons_040617.html

Based on your logic, you would have called for Dumars' head.

I don't know, did Dumars trade away 2 potential lottery picks, large expiring contracts, young prospects who had trade value and take back close to $200 million in those deals?

No, but he did something worse -- he passed on Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh to take Darko at #2. Nobody's perfect.


[Edited by - sbb30 on 01-13-2006 06:00 AM]
rvhoss
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1/13/2006  8:32 AM
no doubt sbb...and I read previously someone said they'd take dumars as their GM.

I think he should have atleast been given a 2 year pass with the capped out mess he inherited. I will go out and say if by year five we aren't in the finals, it was a failure, not by isiah, but by the knicks as an organization.

I think it may be time to get off of Zeke's case.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 01-13-2006 08:45 AM]
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misterearl
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1/13/2006  8:48 AM
rvhoss - stated like a true gentleman and basketball scholar

Meanwhile, back at The Orange and Blue People's Court

(closing argument)

Your MOST Respected and Honorable Martin-ness - I submit to you that (pointing) SIMRUD .... BLATANTLY violated the Forum code of ethics, and viciously accused ME of playing the ignoble race card, and is AT VERY LEAST a prime candidate for a severe and immediate reprimand!

Your honoree, I submit it is Nalod, with malice of forethought, who randomly, with no regard for my mental well-being or personal safety, nailed the racially-themed MIS-quote to my name and dragged my reputation as a loyal Knicks fan, dating back the noble days of Danny "Big Time" Whelan, Ken "The Animal" Bannister and Richie Guerin, into such an abyss of narrow negativism and bias which I have NEVER subscribed to.

Therefore , henceforth and forthwith - Your Honorabilty, I contend that SIMRUD should be sentenced to endorse said Coupon (very well designed I might add), retract his vile attack to my professionalism and hereby subject to immediate censure and having his mouth washed out with Ivory Soap!

I throw myself, and the ENTIRE ball rack from the Greenburgh Training Faclity, (located right down the street from where I matriculated at Woodlands High School, Hartsdale, NY by the way) on the mercy of this august court.

If the quote does not fit, then Simrud should sit. (next to Malik Rose)

I rest my case.

Thank You.
once a knick always a knick
islesfan
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1/13/2006  10:20 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

no doubt sbb...and I read previously someone said they'd take dumars as their GM.

I think he should have atleast been given a 2 year pass with the capped out mess he inherited. I will go out and say if by year five we aren't in the finals, it was a failure, not by isiah, but by the knicks as an organization.

I think it may be time to get off of Zeke's case.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 01-13-2006 08:45 AM]

Why, because they won 5 games in a row to get to only 9 games UNDER .500 for the season?

It's amazing that people want to praise Isiah now be because we may not be the worst team in the league and are only one of the worst with hopes of being mediocre one day.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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1/13/2006  10:53 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Islesfan - the qusetion was NOT about the time to establish a "solid foundation". How do you define a "solid foundation" in measurable terms?

An Eastern Finals or NBA Finals was suggested as a benchmark that is clear.

So, what you are saying is that Isiah is a failure if the Knicks don't reach the Eastern Finals this season?

If not, what is the ETA? What year?

C'mon, the more you evade the question, the slimier you look to the rest of the readers. Then again, that's what a good politician does habitually.

Bugs Bunny: Persistent ain't I?

How many versions of the same stupid question are you going to come up with? It's not about a specific date or a specific accomplishment, but when the team is going to be competing at a high level and realistically being thought of as a contender for a championship.

Bugs Bunny? Please, you're the guy giving Bugs Bunny a hammer and saying "When I nod my head, you hit it."
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
martin
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1/13/2006  11:40 AM
the thing though Isles is that you don't see the fruit and result of the trades and moves and such immediately, so you can't at the same time jugde the aforementioned trades and moves and such until you give it time to bake. You wouldn't judge a meal by it's ingrediants but rather what they produce after the prep, mixing and 45 minuts of cooking.
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islesfan
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1/13/2006  12:09 PM
Posted by martin:

the thing though Isles is that you don't see the fruit and result of the trades and moves and such immediately, so you can't at the same time jugde the aforementioned trades and moves and such until you give it time to bake. You wouldn't judge a meal by it's ingrediants but rather what they produce after the prep, mixing and 45 minuts of cooking.

Martin, that's a great analogy. Of course I would start judging a meal/restaurant based on the ingredients that are used. They only enhance the finished dish and experience. If you're using the best and freshest seasonal ingredients and using them properly so that they complement each other, the chances of having a 4 star meal on a consistent basis is a lot greater than if you're using ingredients that other restaurants don't want to use anymore, that are out of season, low quality and/or past their prime. Sure, every now and then you might get a good meal, hell even 5 times in a row, but the consistency over a long period of time won't be there and the restaurant will never be considered to be one of the best.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
martin
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1/13/2006  12:25 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:

the thing though Isles is that you don't see the fruit and result of the trades and moves and such immediately, so you can't at the same time jugde the aforementioned trades and moves and such until you give it time to bake. You wouldn't judge a meal by it's ingrediants but rather what they produce after the prep, mixing and 45 minuts of cooking.

Martin, that's a great analogy. Of course I would start judging a meal/restaurant based on the ingredients that are used. They only enhance the finished dish and experience. If you're using the best and freshest seasonal ingredients and using them properly so that they complement each other, the chances of having a 4 star meal on a consistent basis is a lot greater than if you're using ingredients that other restaurants don't want to use anymore, that are out of season, low quality and/or past their prime. Sure, every now and then you might get a good meal, hell even 5 times in a row, but the consistency over a long period of time won't be there and the restaurant will never be considered to be one of the best.

ok then, this I will submit: to a 5-star chef, what he or she is able to see in a pile of smelly fish is not the same as what you and I shall see and smell. Where we would plug our nose, a good chef would see an esquisite dinner, but only after mixing with other ingrediants and cooking. You can't judge the dinner on the ingrediants alone. That last part is key.
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misterearl
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1/13/2006  12:27 PM
Anyone can make a hard boiled egg (almost anyone ) but you gotta crack a bunch of eggs to make a championship omelette.

Isiah has only started to break some eggs for his version of a Knicks playoff quiche

The length of time he keeps it in the oven is another matter, One does NOT want to undercook OR burn it, ce n'est pas?

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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1/13/2006  12:28 PM
>How many versions of the same stupid question are you going to come up with?

I gotta million of 'em.

once a knick always a knick
SlimPack
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1/13/2006  12:28 PM
the fact of the matter is GM's dont get fired becuase you think they are going to fail a couple of years from now, its never worked that way. They get fired only when the failure has actually come. That may sound silly to you, since you're probably thinking that if you can predict a disaster why not avoid it?, well the reason why is becuase just becuase you're convinced the knicks will be between bad and mediocre for years, and have no future doesnt mean its a fact, It's just your take. that why your not going to convince alot of people to hate isiah like you do. And also the five game win streak wasnt a coincidence, if it were that easy to win 5 in a row, we would have done it last year too, but last year the longest streak we had was 3 in a row.

[Edited by - slimpack on 01-13-2006 12:29 PM]
misterearl
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1/13/2006  12:28 PM
Thr truth?

You can't handle the truth
once a knick always a knick
Nalod
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1/13/2006  12:38 PM
better ingrediants. Better pizza.
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What exactly has Isiah done as an executive anywhere
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