[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

OT--USA military shouldve helped get the people out of nO BEFORE the fact
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 14 of 23 « First‹ Previous 12  13  14  15  16 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
9/6/2005  7:16 PM
Posted by Knight:

Couldn't the Clinton administration have captured Usama and didn't they also believe Iraq had forbidden weapons?

They tried and failed, unlike the Bush Administration, who didn't believe that terrorism by non-state actors was a threat, despite being warned by the outgoing Clinton Administration.

As long as you brought up bin Laden, why did Bush ignore the Presidential Daily Briefing of August 6, 2001 entitled:"Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US"?

Why did Bush first say he wanted bin Laden "Dead Or Alive" on September 17, 2001, but then flip flopped in 2002 when he said: "I truly am not that concerned about him"?

AUTOADVERT
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
Posts: 26191
Alba Posts: 28
Joined: 6/24/2002
Member: #263
USA
9/6/2005  7:35 PM
I have a friend that works for Fox News and he tells me that he sees what they edit out (of video). Funny thing is, when he first got there, he actally thought that Fox News was no different than any other news outlet. He now knows the truth.

"Far and Balanced"? NOT.

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 09-06-2005 8:45 PM]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
9/6/2005  8:05 PM
I'll say this for FOX News: Laurie Dhue. 'Nuff said.
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
9/6/2005  9:18 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_disaster_response;_ylt=Ak_rIryMDAzLga9hk7jGKdms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ

"The government's disaster chief waited until hours after Hurricane Katrina had already struck the Gulf Coast before asking his boss to dispatch 1,000 Homeland Security employees to the region — and gave them two days to arrive, according to internal documents. Michael Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, sought the approval from Homeland Security Secretary Mike Chertoff roughly five hours after Katrina made landfall on Aug. 29. Brown said that among duties of these employees was to "convey a positive image" about the government's response for victims. Before then, FEMA had positioned smaller rescue and communications teams across the Gulf Coast. But officials acknowledged Tuesday the first department-wide appeal for help came only as the storm raged."
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
9/6/2005  9:21 PM
Let's not forget:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05245/564742.stm

[...]

Before President Bush left Washington to tour the devastation, he said, "The results (of the federal relief effort) are not acceptable. I want to assure the people of the affected areas and this country that we will employ the assets necessary."

In taking questions later in the day, he said he was satisfied with the federal response but not with the results. He said the unexpected flooding delayed help to the stranded. He also promised temporary housing will be built by the federal government.

In Biloxi, Miss., he complimented Michael Brown, director of FEMA. "Brownie, you're doing a helluva job. The FEMA director is working 24 hours a day."
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
Posts: 26191
Alba Posts: 28
Joined: 6/24/2002
Member: #263
USA
9/6/2005  9:35 PM
... another informative post, Rich.

I checked that site, and that paper had a follow up the next day:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

"Homeland Security won't let Red Cross deliver food"

As the National Guard delivered food to the New Orleans convention center yesterday, American Red Cross officials said that federal emergency management authorities would not allow them to do the same.

Other relief agencies say the area is so damaged and dangerous that they doubted they could conduct mass feeding there now.

"The Homeland Security Department has requested and continues to request that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans," said Renita Hosler, spokeswoman for the Red Cross.

"Right now access is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities. We have been at the table every single day [asking for access]. We cannot get into New Orleans against their orders."
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
OAK
Posts: 20517
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/11/2005
Member: #957
Japan
9/6/2005  10:16 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

... another informative post, Rich.

I checked that site, and that paper had a follow up the next day:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

"Homeland Security won't let Red Cross deliver food"

As the National Guard delivered food to the New Orleans convention center yesterday, American Red Cross officials said that federal emergency management authorities would not allow them to do the same.

Other relief agencies say the area is so damaged and dangerous that they doubted they could conduct mass feeding there now.

"The Homeland Security Department has requested and continues to request that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans," said Renita Hosler, spokeswoman for the Red Cross.

"Right now access is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities. We have been at the table every single day [asking for access]. We cannot get into New Orleans against their orders."


unbelievable...

"HOMELAND SECURITY" my ass.

The govt needs to bring FEMA back to its old form, fund it properly, and allow it to be an independent entity that has power to cut red tapes and do what it needs to do to prevent disasters and save lives.
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
9/7/2005  12:03 AM
Bush had advanced warning and did nothing:

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/08/30/State/For_forecasting_chief.shtml

[...]

On Saturday night, Mayfield was so worried about Hurricane Katrina that he called the governors of Louisiana and Mississippi and the mayor of New Orleans. On Sunday [August 28th,], he even talked about the force of Katrina during a video conference call to President Bush at his ranch in Crawford, Texas.

"I just wanted to be able to go to sleep that night knowing that I did all I could do," Mayfield said.
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
9/7/2005  12:04 AM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Bill O'Reily is the king of taking quotes out of context and making them mean something other than what it was intended to mean. Then he puts it in a context to drive a point that he himself believes to be the truth. That's called spin. O'Reily has been exposed PLENTY of times because of this.

I remember one time he was being exposed.....i forget on what show, but give me a minute i'll remember.....and they showed a clip of the O'Reily tv show where O'Reily used a clip of the president and then he used another clip of someone he was at odds with. O'Reily EDITED both clips and took out very important statements made by both people. On the president's behalf, O'reily took out the things that the president said that was plain idiotic. As far as the 'foe' (who I belive was a Democratic Senator) O'Reily took out all facts that made sense. He edited it to the point where the guy's statments were jumbled up and ridiculous. It was edited just so that O'Reily could use them out of context. After they showed this, they actually showed the two original clips of the two men speaking unedited. The places that O'Reily had cut the tape.....Unbelievable!


no disrespect here, but I could not follow your post, but I could see that you probably never sat down and listened to O'riley at all. He has a lot of enemy's because he exposes a lot of people, what you probably saw was one of his detractors trying to make him look bad and doing a bad job of it, because obviously it wasn't that important for you to remember all the facts....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
9/7/2005  12:11 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by martin:
Posted by tkf:

I know a lot of you probably don't like Bill O'riley but I think the guy deals in fact, and I really believes he is on the money a lot of the time..

He said after the research he came up with this:

1) The Lousiana govt was neglegent not having the LA national guard ready and set to get to NO. This would have allowed NO to maintain order, deliver supplies and establish some sense of order.

2) the mayor of NO nagin lost control and was not prepared, he had the superdome set up as a last resort refuge and didn't have supplies and food over there.

3) after bush found out that the mayor of NO lost control and that the louisanna govt didn't respond like they should have, bush should of had homeland security come right in and take care of it. He said bush dropped the ball on this one.

4) he also said barbera bush comments were stupid, just stupid. He said she has been wealthy too long..LOL!!

5) he places blame on the mayor, local govt especially and bush for being 24 hours too late.

all I am saying is that I think it comes down to this. Lack of preparation on the part of NO and lack of support from the state govt, blanco deservers a lot of the blame. Bush was not the only administration to deny the 27 billion to sure up the NO levies. The clinton admin. also denied it... So please stop with all the racial crap, don't let these entertainers rile you up, they are uninformed and irresponsible right now.... If anything it was incompetency, feet dragging, and just a flat out lack of performance on many levels....

Lets dig in and help these people....


You lost me at hello.

Bill O'Reilly is a spin doctor, not an informed news source. He works on Fox. He is an entertainer.

Bill O'Reilly may have come to conclusions about his own research, but I want to see his sources and reasoning behind it. The list he proposes MAY be true, but without a lot of backup, it's nothing.


actually o'riley's show is called the no -spin zone. His facts and sources are very credible, and unlike other shows, he really goes after the truth, he will admit to when he is wrong and he really doesn't take sides, I have seen him defend bush and as in this case, hold his feet to the fire.. so I think he is very fair. I listen to him every day, the guy is as close to the truth as I have seen, the NY times, La times all those papers lie and twist the truth, he exposes them in every way, it is really funny..

just for clarification, it's O'Reilly, not O'Riley, unless you are talking about ex-Knicks coach Pat Riley and wish he was Irish.

If I told you I read the NY Times and LA Times every day and say that they both defend bush and hold his feet to the fire and think both are very fair, would my argument for holding the LA/NY Times papers in high regards make you think they are very fair? Kinda the same way with your argument with O'Reilly.

Every single person and organization has a slant on something. We all use facts to create our opinion, but it doesn't mean we are right or wrong or more informed. Someone in this thread quoted that the employment rate was/has been increasing over the past few years. That's nice, but that's not the whole picture. Poverty has also gone up. Average income has DECLINED (adjusted for inflation). The gap between the high income and low-income families has increased. So, was there spin in the original statement? No, it was factually correct. Was there spin in the overall argument about the job Bush has done with our overall economy? Probable.

Does O'Reilly lie? Not purposely. Does he spin for his own opinion? Probably. Does he always tell the full picture? Probably not. Same with Michael Moore. Same with lots of under informed newspaper articles.

well O'Reilly usually gives his opinion with facts to back it up, and honestly he is open to be called and taken to task about his facts and I have yet heard anyone prove him to be a liar or purposely misleading for that fact. But what I do like about him is that he is responsible, he will admit when he is wrong, The times both NY and LA have been found to be liars, I have seen that myself.

As far as Micheal moore goes, It wouldn't be fair to mention him in the same breath, that guy intentionally misleads the public, after watching farenheit 911, I will never believe anything this guy says.
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
martin
Posts: 79010
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
9/7/2005  12:24 AM
tkf, these aren't sites that I would pronounce at 100%, but they do call attention to themselves.

http://www.sweetjesusihatebilloreilly.com/
http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/

there HAS to be a bit of truth to them.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
Posts: 26191
Alba Posts: 28
Joined: 6/24/2002
Member: #263
USA
9/7/2005  12:29 AM
Wow, quite interesting, TKF,

IMO:

well Michael Moore usually gives his opinion with facts to back it up, and honestly he is open to be called and taken to task about his facts and I have yet heard anyone prove him to be a liar or purposely misleading for that fact. But what I do like about him is that he is responsible, he will admit when he is wrong, The times both NY and LA have been found to be liars, I have seen that myself.

As far as O'Reilly goes, It wouldn't be fair to mention him in the same breath, that guy intentionally misleads the public, after watching his "no spin zone", I will never believe anything this guy says.

I guess we're not on the same page, but that's cool... I'd like to see how many facts get posted to support either flip-side of the discussion. What have Moore's documentaries stated that was so untrue? Conversely, does O'Reilly's track record littered with valid charges of not stating the facts have any credibility?



Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
9/7/2005  11:15 AM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Wow, quite interesting, TKF,

IMO:

well Michael Moore usually gives his opinion with facts to back it up, and honestly he is open to be called and taken to task about his facts and I have yet heard anyone prove him to be a liar or purposely misleading for that fact. But what I do like about him is that he is responsible, he will admit when he is wrong, The times both NY and LA have been found to be liars, I have seen that myself.

As far as O'Reilly goes, It wouldn't be fair to mention him in the same breath, that guy intentionally misleads the public, after watching his "no spin zone", I will never believe anything this guy says.

I guess we're not on the same page, but that's cool... I'd like to see how many facts get posted to support either flip-side of the discussion. What have Moore's documentaries stated that was so untrue? Conversely, does O'Reilly's track record littered with valid charges of not stating the facts have any credibility?


Michael moore is the king of twist, classic example, in his documentary, he clearly tried to paint a picture in Iraq of tranquility and happiness, he showed kids flying kites, people walking around smiling, carrying on everyday business, then on the next few shots he had US planes bombing the country, dead people and a lot of blood, as if we just picked that peaceful country out of the blue and started bombing them. To me that is irresponsible, why not show the graves of all the people that Saddam killed, the terror and tyrany he kept the people under? Instead he did everything he could to paint a bad picture about bush and the US without being fair and responsible. All O'reilley did was call him out on that, again this is what O'reilly does, and then he will tell you, me the american public, both sides of the story, can you sit there and honestly say that michael moore showed both sides of the story in farenheit 911? If you think so, the I can see we will never agree, and no need to go on with this conversation...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
9/7/2005  11:29 AM
Posted by martin:

tkf, these aren't sites that I would pronounce at 100%, but they do call attention to themselves.

http://www.sweetjesusihatebilloreilly.com/
http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/

there HAS to be a bit of truth to them.




Another trash site, it is funny, bill O'reilly did amit and said that france offered 600 tents, 1000 cots and 60 generators, I think the problem bill has with that is it seems token for country to offer just that, heck how many lives did we give on the beaches of normandy? How many tanks and planes? to me the french can keep their cots and tents, heck my company could donate that..... The way the french has let us down during this fight against terroism, I would not be so ready to hail them as stepping to the plate by offering a few cots and tents... Again where was bill untruthful? These sites can do nothing else but reach to find stories to try and discredit o'reilly. All I have to say on this is listen to his show on radio, when he is not there listen to the host that fill in, two of them are judges, to me they do the best job of getting the truth and facts out to the american public..

Classic example, There were a couple of judges in california who was refusing to come down hard child molesters, one judge gave a molester a few months in jail and when he got out he molested a little girl, Bill O'reilly was all over this judge, he exposed him and let the public know what was happening, he was determined to make change. I just haven't seen any journalist do that, now what angle was Bill shooting for here? It seems like he was looking out for the kids in the state, what have guys like michael moore ever done, for anyone? except their own views....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
9/7/2005  11:35 AM
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3004197

[...]

As specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew's first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
9/7/2005  11:38 AM
your 100% right about Moore's 911 film and its unfortunate. He didnt need to add those kinds of elements and still paint a picture of just how in bed the Bush admin is with the middle east. He should just have presented the truth with is self evident, but to be fair thats usually not enough. I remember 6 months after the fall of Iraq and over 55% of Bush supporters still believed there were WOMD in Iraq.

It would be nice to see Bush succeed in ANY of the areas that I really care about. Health care, education, the energy crisis and foreign policy. I hope he can have a positive in at least one of these things, but my guess is come next election it will be about some more BS like gay marriage, rather than things that actually affect the state of the country
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
9/7/2005  11:57 AM
Posted by fishmike:

your 100% right about Moore's 911 film and its unfortunate. He didnt need to add those kinds of elements and still paint a picture of just how in bed the Bush admin is with the middle east. He should just have presented the truth with is self evident, but to be fair thats usually not enough. I remember 6 months after the fall of Iraq and over 55% of Bush supporters still believed there were WOMD in Iraq.

It would be nice to see Bush succeed in ANY of the areas that I really care about. Health care, education, the energy crisis and foreign policy. I hope he can have a positive in at least one of these things, but my guess is come next election it will be about some more BS like gay marriage, rather than things that actually affect the state of the country


That is my point fish, and for those who think Oreilly is a spin doctor, he on his radio show which i hear everyday, has called bush to task, he said he was misinformed about the WOMD and should come out and admit it. The difference is that moore will never tell both sides and that to me is irresponsible, I just can't trust guys like that...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
9/7/2005  12:06 PM
For all his faults, Moore isn't a journalist, O'Reilly is. He doesn't really take Bush to task, he plays a game. He blames him for a small portion of what he has done wrong, but he distorts the facts so as to obscure just how bad Bush's policies really are.

[Edited by - Rich on 09-07-2005 12:07 PM]
martin
Posts: 79010
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
9/7/2005  12:15 PM
tkf, what other political talk shows do you listen to? Surely if you wanted to take a fair and balanced look at talk show hosts/journalists you would take a sampling and compare, right?
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
nyvector16
Posts: 21341
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/9/2001
Member: #130
USA
9/7/2005  1:09 PM
I used to work at NBC News for 3 years and watched nothing but CNN, MSNBC, and Fox on occasion for a stark contrast of reality.... I don't consider myself a political Guru... but I am quite informed.
Just to shed a lil light on this Bill O'Reilly conversation...
He is FARRRR from being objective.
The thing that made him the personality he is today is he Grills his guests...
That is his Forte'... He is known as a guy who will throw it in your face and make you answer the question... He's actually quite good at it.

At his harshest... he only scratches the surface of the flaws of this administration.

If you really want a non-partisan look at current events I recommend BBC News.
Page 14 of 23 « First‹ Previous 12  13  14  15  16 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
OT--USA military shouldve helped get the people out of nO BEFORE the fact
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy