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Other games thread.......Place to chat about games on TV not Knicks.
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tkf
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1/31/2013  9:58 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:If rockets lose this game then it is McHale's fault.
Not watching but I checked the box score. Rockets were down 10. What is McHale doing that is costing them the game? Nuggets have a better team.

exactly...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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NYKBocker
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1/31/2013  1:21 PM
tkf wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:If rockets lose this game then it is McHale's fault.
Not watching but I checked the box score. Rockets were down 10. What is McHale doing that is costing them the game? Nuggets have a better team.

exactly...


gunsnewing wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I'm guessing he benched Lin for TD and Rockets blew big lead?

Yup. Lin was playing awesome. Denver announcers were gushing that Lin was setting the table and rockets playing great. Then McHale benches him with 7 or 8 min left in he 3rd and did not put him back until 9 min left in the game. They went from up 10 to down 10. McHale needs to get fired.

22pts for Lin 63% FG & 1 TO nice

Denver is definitely the better team but the Rockets had them on the ropes and McHale gave them a chance to recover and blew the game.

Nalod
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1/31/2013  1:55 PM
Maybe he is playing better by limiting his minutes?

Maybe he hit the wall recently as this is his first real full season and they have a game plan for him and other players?

Mabye even Lin has to learn how to pace himself?

Maybe he has an injury?

Do you fire a coach half way thru the season for this?

NYKBocker
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1/31/2013  2:10 PM
Nalod wrote:Maybe he is playing better by limiting his minutes?

Maybe he hit the wall recently as this is his first real full season and they have a game plan for him and other players?

Mabye even Lin has to learn how to pace himself?

Maybe he has an injury?

Do you fire a coach half way thru the season for this?

Here is a post from the rockets forum..

A head coach has specific responsibilities.

1) Developing the current roster of players.
2) Utilising the players he has to the best of their abilities and getting the most out of them by putting them in positions to succeed, giving them confidence, disciplining them where necessary and managing their minutes.
3) Managing player minutes during the game.
4) Calling plays during the game.
5) Reading the game and making adjustments accordingly.

In my opinion McHale has failed in virtually every one of these tasks and has cost the rockets between 5-7 wins (a conservative guesstimate).

Player management:

Harden - Half way into the season and he already looks burnt out. Routinely turning the ball over 5-6 times a game and missing lay-up after lay-up. His 3 point shooting percentage seems to have declined sharply also. The way McHale is playing him, fans shouldn't be surprised if the team's franchise player going forward ends up getting injured.

This is his first season as a starter, so it's understandable he's struggling with his current minute burden. Is it really that difficult to cut down his minutes slightly? IMO he should be playing 36-38 minutes a night with 40+ on very rare occasions in close finishes only. Does he really need to play to the end in blowouts like he has been?

Asking Harden to play as PG has also been a serious tactical error. Giving him the ball at the start of the shot clock makes it easy for opposing defences to key in on him, forcing him into taking tougher shots and reducing his efficiency and effectiveness.

Expecting harden to run the offensive and then also be the main finisher/scorer while playing 40+ minutes is a recipe for disaster and we are seeing the fruits of this now. Nevermind the fact that there is no way he can be expected to contribute defensively when he is being forced to bear such a ridiculous burden. Certainly not in his first year as a starter.

Lin - It's obvious that McHale has some kind of issue with Lin. Not sure what it is but he clearly has little faith in him. In the beginning of the season it was 'not a great defensive match-up,' well that myth has been roundly dismissed. He doesn't seem to trust Lin to play as the team's main PG, constantly looking for ways to take the ball out of his hands, while deciding to try and use him instead as a spot-up shooter. This has been one of the main reasons for the over and misuse of Harden. He benches Lin the moment he makes a mistake and seems to also bench him when he's playing well. Last night was a case in point. While Lin's stat line might not have been great by mid 3rd quarter he was playing excellent defense on Lawson while also orchestrating the offense.

I think the real problem here is that Mchale has little to no understanding of what a PG does and how a good PG influences the game. He just seems to look at points and assists as his measuring guide to judge Lin's play.

Chandler - While overall McHale has helped chandler to play well, he has at times put too much on his young shoulders, last night is a good example of this. Chandler is also not a PG and he can't really be excepted to fullfill the role of one.

Patterson/Morris - Has Patterson missed a single mid-range, baseline jumper lately? He seems to be money from that shot off the PnR, especially with Lin. McHale should be running this play to death, whether with Lin, Harden or Douglas. Force opposing defenses to take at least one of our bigs seriously on the offensive end to open up space and opportunities for harden and Lin.

Morris seems to be used primarily as a 3 point shooter. Is this really the best we can expect from him?

The bench - Asking Douglas and Delfino to orchestrate the offensive is ridiculous. They are not good at it. Douglas is great as a high energy spark, but he should not be playing more than 12-15 minutes a game. I'm not convinced Beverly is ready yet, he seems to just commit fouls and turn the ball over. But I'm not against subbing in Beverly for Lin and Douglas for Harden when these players need a breather. But not both at the same time except for VERY SHORT bursts in specific situations and on a VERY SHORT leash in those situations also.

====

In terms of reading the game, I think this is where Mchale's lack of talent as a coach is really exposed. A good coach should be able to anticipate and make changes before the momentum starts to shift away to the other team. At the very least, a decent coach should recognise the first signs of change and immediately change things up. How many times have you seen other coaches call a time out after they have been on a run, the moment the Rocket's score a couple of buckets and it looks like momentum might switch back? McHale never seems to do this. He waits till momentum is well and truly with the other team before realising that his idiotic lineup is failing. By then it's too late and the game is over.

There have been at least 4-5 games where the Rockets have thrown away the momentum by leaving the bench in for too long.

'Going with what's working,' is not a viable coaching strategy most of the time because opposition coaches exist, and they will adjust. The bench, specifically Douglas, can and have provided a solid spark on occasion. They play well for a few minutes until the opposing team adjusts and then they get hammered.

Mchale should be switching them out before this happens, but he seems to have zero feel for the game. There is a reason that these are BENCH players and not starters.

Bottom line, Mchale has shown himself to be an incompetent coach and fans who care about the Rockets need to get over their problems with Lin/LOFs and see just how much he is costing this team both in terms of chemistry/player development and actual results.

Clyde Drexler told you guys the same thing that people you call LOFs have been saying for a while now. i.e. Lin should play PG and Harden as SG.

Maybe you need to look at the merits of the argument and not just the join date of the person who is making it.

tkf
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1/31/2013  2:47 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
Nalod wrote:Maybe he is playing better by limiting his minutes?

Maybe he hit the wall recently as this is his first real full season and they have a game plan for him and other players?

Mabye even Lin has to learn how to pace himself?

Maybe he has an injury?

Do you fire a coach half way thru the season for this?

Here is a post from the rockets forum..

A head coach has specific responsibilities.

1) Developing the current roster of players.
2) Utilising the players he has to the best of their abilities and getting the most out of them by putting them in positions to succeed, giving them confidence, disciplining them where necessary and managing their minutes.
3) Managing player minutes during the game.
4) Calling plays during the game.
5) Reading the game and making adjustments accordingly.

In my opinion McHale has failed in virtually every one of these tasks and has cost the rockets between 5-7 wins (a conservative guesstimate).

Player management:

Harden - Half way into the season and he already looks burnt out. Routinely turning the ball over 5-6 times a game and missing lay-up after lay-up. His 3 point shooting percentage seems to have declined sharply also. The way McHale is playing him, fans shouldn't be surprised if the team's franchise player going forward ends up getting injured.

This is his first season as a starter, so it's understandable he's struggling with his current minute burden. Is it really that difficult to cut down his minutes slightly? IMO he should be playing 36-38 minutes a night with 40+ on very rare occasions in close finishes only. Does he really need to play to the end in blowouts like he has been?

Asking Harden to play as PG has also been a serious tactical error. Giving him the ball at the start of the shot clock makes it easy for opposing defences to key in on him, forcing him into taking tougher shots and reducing his efficiency and effectiveness.

Expecting harden to run the offensive and then also be the main finisher/scorer while playing 40+ minutes is a recipe for disaster and we are seeing the fruits of this now. Nevermind the fact that there is no way he can be expected to contribute defensively when he is being forced to bear such a ridiculous burden. Certainly not in his first year as a starter.

Lin - It's obvious that McHale has some kind of issue with Lin. Not sure what it is but he clearly has little faith in him. In the beginning of the season it was 'not a great defensive match-up,' well that myth has been roundly dismissed. He doesn't seem to trust Lin to play as the team's main PG, constantly looking for ways to take the ball out of his hands, while deciding to try and use him instead as a spot-up shooter. This has been one of the main reasons for the over and misuse of Harden. He benches Lin the moment he makes a mistake and seems to also bench him when he's playing well. Last night was a case in point. While Lin's stat line might not have been great by mid 3rd quarter he was playing excellent defense on Lawson while also orchestrating the offense.

I think the real problem here is that Mchale has little to no understanding of what a PG does and how a good PG influences the game. He just seems to look at points and assists as his measuring guide to judge Lin's play.

Chandler - While overall McHale has helped chandler to play well, he has at times put too much on his young shoulders, last night is a good example of this. Chandler is also not a PG and he can't really be excepted to fullfill the role of one.

Patterson/Morris - Has Patterson missed a single mid-range, baseline jumper lately? He seems to be money from that shot off the PnR, especially with Lin. McHale should be running this play to death, whether with Lin, Harden or Douglas. Force opposing defenses to take at least one of our bigs seriously on the offensive end to open up space and opportunities for harden and Lin.

Morris seems to be used primarily as a 3 point shooter. Is this really the best we can expect from him?

The bench - Asking Douglas and Delfino to orchestrate the offensive is ridiculous. They are not good at it. Douglas is great as a high energy spark, but he should not be playing more than 12-15 minutes a game. I'm not convinced Beverly is ready yet, he seems to just commit fouls and turn the ball over. But I'm not against subbing in Beverly for Lin and Douglas for Harden when these players need a breather. But not both at the same time except for VERY SHORT bursts in specific situations and on a VERY SHORT leash in those situations also.

====

In terms of reading the game, I think this is where Mchale's lack of talent as a coach is really exposed. A good coach should be able to anticipate and make changes before the momentum starts to shift away to the other team. At the very least, a decent coach should recognise the first signs of change and immediately change things up. How many times have you seen other coaches call a time out after they have been on a run, the moment the Rocket's score a couple of buckets and it looks like momentum might switch back? McHale never seems to do this. He waits till momentum is well and truly with the other team before realising that his idiotic lineup is failing. By then it's too late and the game is over.

There have been at least 4-5 games where the Rockets have thrown away the momentum by leaving the bench in for too long.

'Going with what's working,' is not a viable coaching strategy most of the time because opposition coaches exist, and they will adjust. The bench, specifically Douglas, can and have provided a solid spark on occasion. They play well for a few minutes until the opposing team adjusts and then they get hammered.

Mchale should be switching them out before this happens, but he seems to have zero feel for the game. There is a reason that these are BENCH players and not starters.

Bottom line, Mchale has shown himself to be an incompetent coach and fans who care about the Rockets need to get over their problems with Lin/LOFs and see just how much he is costing this team both in terms of chemistry/player development and actual results.

Clyde Drexler told you guys the same thing that people you call LOFs have been saying for a while now. i.e. Lin should play PG and Harden as SG.

Maybe you need to look at the merits of the argument and not just the join date of the person who is making it.

good post.. one thing I noticed with mchale is that no matter how lin is playing.. great or bad he will take him out in that first qtr around the 4 minute mark.. kind of odd, and he will run harden into the ground.. harden does look a bit fatigued....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Cartman718
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1/31/2013  8:56 PM

u gotta love david lee
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Uptown
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1/31/2013  11:47 PM
Apparently, Westbrook and Durant had another blow-up in the game tonight. Westbrook went to the bench and had a mini-temper tantrum and left the bench. Cheeks walked with him to the lockeroom until Westbrook cooled off. How long before we hear reports come out that Westbrook and Durant had to be separated in practice similar to Shaq and Kobe....
sidsanders
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1/31/2013  11:51 PM
Uptown wrote:Apparently, Westbrook and Durant had another blow-up in the game tonight. Westbrook went to the bench and had a mini-temper tantrum and left the bench. Cheeks walked with him to the lockeroom until Westbrook cooled off. How long before we hear reports come out that Westbrook and Durant had to be separated in practice similar to Shaq and Kobe....

this is my thinking. durant is gonna wanna choke this guy out at some point. still amazing westbrook shoots so much and so poorly at times. if any guy on that team should shoot more its durant (obvious).

makes you wonder if harden shoulda stayed and they ship off westbrook instead.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
gunsnewing
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2/1/2013  1:15 AM
Entertaining finish GS vs Dallas 98-97 GS 43secs left
yellowboy90
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2/1/2013  3:06 AM
It was Westbrook and the 2 guard not Durant so they say.
gunsnewing
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2/1/2013  3:37 AM
Sefolosa
Uptown
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2/1/2013  7:13 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:It was Westbrook and the 2 guard not Durant so they say.

All of them seemed a little ticked...if you watch the replay of the 5 second call on Westbrook, Durant was standing at the top of the key and he punched the air. Sefolosa was visibly upset aswell. Brooks pulled him right after that and Westbrook didn't participate in the team huddle.

AnubisADL
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2/1/2013  7:46 AM
I'd take Westbrook in a second. Some guys are just emotional.
NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
yellowboy90
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2/1/2013  8:38 AM
Uptown wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:It was Westbrook and the 2 guard not Durant so they say.

All of them seemed a little ticked...if you watch the replay of the 5 second call on Westbrook, Durant was standing at the top of the key and he punched the air. Sefolosa was visibly upset aswell. Brooks pulled him right after that and Westbrook didn't participate in the team huddle.

It looks like Westbrook can't make a mistake without someone getting upset because early on he had it going I turned away so maybe he started forcing it. Maybe they feel he is selfish and it is just boiling over?

ChuckBuck
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2/1/2013  8:50 AM
The only thing that can prevent Kevin Durant from winning a ring isn't an opposing player or coach or team...it's his own teammate.
AnubisADL
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2/1/2013  9:01 AM
Westbrook is a big part of what makes OKC successful.

The guy does do stupid stuff but his positive out weigh his negatives at the moment.

NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
Nalod
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2/1/2013  9:16 AM
NYKBocker wrote:
Nalod wrote:Maybe he is playing better by limiting his minutes?

Maybe he hit the wall recently as this is his first real full season and they have a game plan for him and other players?

Mabye even Lin has to learn how to pace himself?

Maybe he has an injury?

Do you fire a coach half way thru the season for this?

Here is a post from the rockets forum..

A head coach has specific responsibilities.

1) Developing the current roster of players.
2) Utilising the players he has to the best of their abilities and getting the most out of them by putting them in positions to succeed, giving them confidence, disciplining them where necessary and managing their minutes.
3) Managing player minutes during the game.
4) Calling plays during the game.
5) Reading the game and making adjustments accordingly.

In my opinion McHale has failed in virtually every one of these tasks and has cost the rockets between 5-7 wins (a conservative guesstimate).

Player management:

Harden - Half way into the season and he already looks burnt out. Routinely turning the ball over 5-6 times a game and missing lay-up after lay-up. His 3 point shooting percentage seems to have declined sharply also. The way McHale is playing him, fans shouldn't be surprised if the team's franchise player going forward ends up getting injured.

This is his first season as a starter, so it's understandable he's struggling with his current minute burden. Is it really that difficult to cut down his minutes slightly? IMO he should be playing 36-38 minutes a night with 40+ on very rare occasions in close finishes only. Does he really need to play to the end in blowouts like he has been?

Asking Harden to play as PG has also been a serious tactical error. Giving him the ball at the start of the shot clock makes it easy for opposing defences to key in on him, forcing him into taking tougher shots and reducing his efficiency and effectiveness.

Expecting harden to run the offensive and then also be the main finisher/scorer while playing 40+ minutes is a recipe for disaster and we are seeing the fruits of this now. Nevermind the fact that there is no way he can be expected to contribute defensively when he is being forced to bear such a ridiculous burden. Certainly not in his first year as a starter.

Lin - It's obvious that McHale has some kind of issue with Lin. Not sure what it is but he clearly has little faith in him. In the beginning of the season it was 'not a great defensive match-up,' well that myth has been roundly dismissed. He doesn't seem to trust Lin to play as the team's main PG, constantly looking for ways to take the ball out of his hands, while deciding to try and use him instead as a spot-up shooter. This has been one of the main reasons for the over and misuse of Harden. He benches Lin the moment he makes a mistake and seems to also bench him when he's playing well. Last night was a case in point. While Lin's stat line might not have been great by mid 3rd quarter he was playing excellent defense on Lawson while also orchestrating the offense.

I think the real problem here is that Mchale has little to no understanding of what a PG does and how a good PG influences the game. He just seems to look at points and assists as his measuring guide to judge Lin's play.

Chandler - While overall McHale has helped chandler to play well, he has at times put too much on his young shoulders, last night is a good example of this. Chandler is also not a PG and he can't really be excepted to fullfill the role of one.

Patterson/Morris - Has Patterson missed a single mid-range, baseline jumper lately? He seems to be money from that shot off the PnR, especially with Lin. McHale should be running this play to death, whether with Lin, Harden or Douglas. Force opposing defenses to take at least one of our bigs seriously on the offensive end to open up space and opportunities for harden and Lin.

Morris seems to be used primarily as a 3 point shooter. Is this really the best we can expect from him?

The bench - Asking Douglas and Delfino to orchestrate the offensive is ridiculous. They are not good at it. Douglas is great as a high energy spark, but he should not be playing more than 12-15 minutes a game. I'm not convinced Beverly is ready yet, he seems to just commit fouls and turn the ball over. But I'm not against subbing in Beverly for Lin and Douglas for Harden when these players need a breather. But not both at the same time except for VERY SHORT bursts in specific situations and on a VERY SHORT leash in those situations also.

====

In terms of reading the game, I think this is where Mchale's lack of talent as a coach is really exposed. A good coach should be able to anticipate and make changes before the momentum starts to shift away to the other team. At the very least, a decent coach should recognise the first signs of change and immediately change things up. How many times have you seen other coaches call a time out after they have been on a run, the moment the Rocket's score a couple of buckets and it looks like momentum might switch back? McHale never seems to do this. He waits till momentum is well and truly with the other team before realising that his idiotic lineup is failing. By then it's too late and the game is over.

There have been at least 4-5 games where the Rockets have thrown away the momentum by leaving the bench in for too long.

'Going with what's working,' is not a viable coaching strategy most of the time because opposition coaches exist, and they will adjust. The bench, specifically Douglas, can and have provided a solid spark on occasion. They play well for a few minutes until the opposing team adjusts and then they get hammered.

Mchale should be switching them out before this happens, but he seems to have zero feel for the game. There is a reason that these are BENCH players and not starters.

Bottom line, Mchale has shown himself to be an incompetent coach and fans who care about the Rockets need to get over their problems with Lin/LOFs and see just how much he is costing this team both in terms of chemistry/player development and actual results.

Clyde Drexler told you guys the same thing that people you call LOFs have been saying for a while now. i.e. Lin should play PG and Harden as SG.

Maybe you need to look at the merits of the argument and not just the join date of the person who is making it.

Good to see there are others out there who think they have the answers in hindsight using the "insight" of a TV broadcast with the benefit broadcasters to aid them.

How many assistant coaches do they have? GM? Video coaches to break down film? Injury feedback? Has Mchale improved as a coach since his minny days?

Its an unusual season for them and they might actually be playing above their heads at times which makes them look bad when they perhaps play down to their real level. Maybe McHale is doing a really good job and the team is inconsistant?

Big roster changes, big trade at start of season, the guys daughter dies and fans calling for his head?

Its not gonna happen. Fans think change is always gonna be good. Knicks were dysfunctional under MDA given the roster and the dynamics. Nets similar. Rockets are still looking for its identity and how to use/not overuse its new star. He is also learning how to go from bench player to lead alpha star. Lin has to learn how to go from waiver surviver, to linsansity, to PG ball QB and play off the ball at times. Asik has also gone thru a big role change also.

Rockets 3 new starters this season all changed rolls.

Could i be better? In hindsight, ALWAYS! Are rocket fans more patient then Knick fans? Doubt is.

ChuckBuck
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2/1/2013  9:26 AM
Rockets by end of the season will shake out to about a .500 team give or take, nothing wrong with that with nice young players, decent coach, solid all star.

Still no Franchise player on the team, and probably will improve only marginally through the years, with their no defense philosophy. They're a younger Denver. Good for some exciting ball, relegated to 1st or 2nd round exits in the playoffs.

Bonn1997
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2/1/2013  10:19 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:Rockets by end of the season will shake out to about a .500 team give or take, nothing wrong with that with nice young players, decent coach, solid all star.

Still no Franchise player on the team, and probably will improve only marginally through the years, with their no defense philosophy. They're a younger Denver. Good for some exciting ball, relegated to 1st or 2nd round exits in the playoffs.


We disagree on the franchise player issue but I want to point out that their average player has only 1.7 years of experience right now. They also have room for a max contract FA signing. I think it's crazy to make predictions about their ceiling.
smackeddog
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2/1/2013  10:49 AM
AnubisADL wrote:I'd take Westbrook in a second. Some guys are just emotional.

Yeah, it's no big deal- I think everyone has over-reacted to a seemingly minor thing and ended up going into a tantrum- I know I have! I'm not a fan of Westbrook, but I'm not going to criticize him for this incident.

Other games thread.......Place to chat about games on TV not Knicks.

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