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islesfan
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12/12/2008  9:00 PM
Posted by TMS:
If they want Manny or Tex, they have to clear $10M.

that would be solved if we passed up on Mike Cameron... i dunno how much trade value Matsui's got coming off major knee surgery, at least until he shows he's healthy again... maybe at the Allstar break u could trade him for a good player... Randy Wynn would be much more preferable to Mike Cameron tho, i'll say that much, but if the Yanks make the deal to take on Cam's salary it pretty much rules out us going after Wynn.

I meant clearing $10M even without Cameron. If they sign Cameron, you can pretty much forget signing anybody else.
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TMS
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12/12/2008  9:10 PM
i think they'll still look to sign Andy P or another veteran arm after they finalize this Cameron trade probably around the same $9 mil figure they allotted to Andy's offer.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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12/12/2008  10:05 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:
If they want Manny or Tex, they have to clear $10M.

that would be solved if we passed up on Mike Cameron... i dunno how much trade value Matsui's got coming off major knee surgery, at least until he shows he's healthy again... maybe at the Allstar break u could trade him for a good player... Randy Wynn would be much more preferable to Mike Cameron tho, i'll say that much, but if the Yanks make the deal to take on Cam's salary it pretty much rules out us going after Wynn.

I meant clearing $10M even without Cameron. If they sign Cameron, you can pretty much forget signing anybody else.

Where are you and TMS getting these predictions from? Do you have access that the media and I don't have to their spending limits? All I read in the media are tons of offers the Yankees have made--officially or informally--and no indications that they're close to their limits.
EnySpree
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12/13/2008  12:15 AM
losing the bats of Abreu and Giambi? well they are already replaced with Swisher and Cameron....it's not like Abreu and Giambi were really lighting up the bases.....

With all thats happened so far with pitching, I belive the Yanks are still gonna get a big bat....Manny for 2 years? Texeria? whatever I have a feeling somebody is coming.
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islesfan
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12/13/2008  12:23 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:
If they want Manny or Tex, they have to clear $10M.

that would be solved if we passed up on Mike Cameron... i dunno how much trade value Matsui's got coming off major knee surgery, at least until he shows he's healthy again... maybe at the Allstar break u could trade him for a good player... Randy Wynn would be much more preferable to Mike Cameron tho, i'll say that much, but if the Yanks make the deal to take on Cam's salary it pretty much rules out us going after Wynn.

I meant clearing $10M even without Cameron. If they sign Cameron, you can pretty much forget signing anybody else.

Where are you and TMS getting these predictions from? Do you have access that the media and I don't have to their spending limits? All I read in the media are tons of offers the Yankees have made--officially or informally--and no indications that they're close to their limits.

Yes. Yes we do.

TMS, don't tell Bonn where we get our information from.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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12/13/2008  12:44 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

losing the bats of Abreu and Giambi? well they are already replaced with Swisher and Cameron....it's not like Abreu and Giambi were really lighting up the bases.....

With all thats happened so far with pitching, I belive the Yanks are still gonna get a big bat....Manny for 2 years? Texeria? whatever I have a feeling somebody is coming.

Bobby, Giambi & Melky amounted to 60 HRs & 233 RBIs between the 3 of them, which is now being replaced by Swisher & Cameron's 49 HRs & 139 RBIs... that's a net loss of 11 HRs & almost 100 RBIs... not to mention Bobby was a .300 hitter & both he & Giambi were .370+ OBP guys... we're replacing those guys w/2 hitters who hit for very low average, strike out a ton, & have OBP's in the .330 range... plus u can't be sure if Cameron will hit 25 HRs at righty unfriendly YS either... i think he'll hit more like in the 18-20 range personally... these are all things that u can't simply dismiss as easily replaceable by any stretch.

given, we can project that Cano will be better than he was last year, & hopefully Matsui & Jorge will remain healthy for a full season, but those are all big IF's at this point that no one can really bank on.

again, who's batting 3rd in this lineup next year if we don't add another bat? Cano? Matsui? ARod? i don't see any natural fits there... u could move ARod up & bat Matsui cleanup i suppose... i don't really like the idea of batting Matsui 3rd & Cano's gotta prove himself again before we just slot him in at #3 in the lineup.

i still say we should be looking to add another bat to this lineup.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
EnySpree
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12/13/2008  1:10 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by EnySpree:

losing the bats of Abreu and Giambi? well they are already replaced with Swisher and Cameron....it's not like Abreu and Giambi were really lighting up the bases.....

With all thats happened so far with pitching, I belive the Yanks are still gonna get a big bat....Manny for 2 years? Texeria? whatever I have a feeling somebody is coming.

Bobby, Giambi & Melky amounted to 60 HRs & 233 RBIs between the 3 of them, which is now being replaced by Swisher & Cameron's 49 HRs & 139 RBIs... that's a net loss of 11 HRs & almost 100 RBIs... not to mention Bobby was a .300 hitter & both he & Giambi were .370+ OBP guys... we're replacing those guys w/2 hitters who hit for very low average, strike out a ton, & have OBP's in the .330 range... plus u can't be sure if Cameron will hit 25 HRs at righty unfriendly YS either... i think he'll hit more like in the 18-20 range personally... these are all things that u can't simply dismiss as easily replaceable by any stretch.

given, we can project that Cano will be better than he was last year, & hopefully Matsui & Jorge will remain healthy for a full season, but those are all big IF's at this point that no one can really bank on.

again, who's batting 3rd in this lineup next year if we don't add another bat? Cano? Matsui? ARod? i don't see any natural fits there... u could move ARod up & bat Matsui cleanup i suppose... i don't really like the idea of batting Matsui 3rd & Cano's gotta prove himself again before we just slot him in at #3 in the lineup.

i still say we should be looking to add another bat to this lineup.

good stuff, but even with the numbers...Giambi and Abreu sucked last year and in yankee uniform. to me their presence kinda took the momentum outta games....now I'm not saying Swisher and Cameron are gonna come in sprinkling pixie dust all around the locker room....the focus changes. The line-up has to change and management has to refocus how they wanna/gonna score runs.


btw....I think the Yanks are gonna pick up another bat....in the Burnett article on yahoo, the quotes say it all....they are looking to restructure how they are gonna do things....they got this!

Swisher to me has breakout year all over him. I mean the Yankee mystic hasn't shined in on the Bronx in quite a few years....this dude is still only 28 and he has shown pop. I can see him being what Jason Giambi was just healthy and better in the clubhouse.
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djsunyc
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12/13/2008  1:16 AM
let's put it this way, if the yanks make the playoffs, you're looking at cc + wang + aj in a 5 or 7 game series w/ the great mariano in the pen. filthy...

98 yanks = only 4 guys batting over .300
99 yanks = only 2 guys batting over .300
00 yanks = only 3 guys batting over .300
01 yanks = only 2 guys batting over .300

moral of the story = PITCHING is what lead the yanks to 5 series in 6 years...
islesfan
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12/13/2008  1:56 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

let's put it this way, if the yanks make the playoffs, you're looking at cc + wang + aj in a 5 or 7 game series w/ the great mariano in the pen. filthy...

98 yanks = only 4 guys batting over .300
99 yanks = only 2 guys batting over .300
00 yanks = only 3 guys batting over .300
01 yanks = only 2 guys batting over .300

moral of the story = PITCHING is what lead the yanks to 5 series in 6 years...

You forgot about Joba. In a 5 game series, having a stretched out Joba would be invaluable. If one of the top 3 has an off night or the bullpen is overworked or Mariano can only go 1 inning, Joba can go from long reliever to a 2-3 inning guy or even close if need be. Then in a 7 game series your 4th starter had a 2.71 ERA as a starter last year, which would have been 2nd in the AL.

If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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12/13/2008  2:01 AM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by EnySpree:

losing the bats of Abreu and Giambi? well they are already replaced with Swisher and Cameron....it's not like Abreu and Giambi were really lighting up the bases.....

With all thats happened so far with pitching, I belive the Yanks are still gonna get a big bat....Manny for 2 years? Texeria? whatever I have a feeling somebody is coming.

Bobby, Giambi & Melky amounted to 60 HRs & 233 RBIs between the 3 of them, which is now being replaced by Swisher & Cameron's 49 HRs & 139 RBIs... that's a net loss of 11 HRs & almost 100 RBIs... not to mention Bobby was a .300 hitter & both he & Giambi were .370+ OBP guys... we're replacing those guys w/2 hitters who hit for very low average, strike out a ton, & have OBP's in the .330 range... plus u can't be sure if Cameron will hit 25 HRs at righty unfriendly YS either... i think he'll hit more like in the 18-20 range personally... these are all things that u can't simply dismiss as easily replaceable by any stretch.

given, we can project that Cano will be better than he was last year, & hopefully Matsui & Jorge will remain healthy for a full season, but those are all big IF's at this point that no one can really bank on.

again, who's batting 3rd in this lineup next year if we don't add another bat? Cano? Matsui? ARod? i don't see any natural fits there... u could move ARod up & bat Matsui cleanup i suppose... i don't really like the idea of batting Matsui 3rd & Cano's gotta prove himself again before we just slot him in at #3 in the lineup.

i still say we should be looking to add another bat to this lineup.

good stuff, but even with the numbers...Giambi and Abreu sucked last year and in yankee uniform. to me their presence kinda took the momentum outta games....now I'm not saying Swisher and Cameron are gonna come in sprinkling pixie dust all around the locker room....the focus changes. The line-up has to change and management has to refocus how they wanna/gonna score runs.


btw....I think the Yanks are gonna pick up another bat....in the Burnett article on yahoo, the quotes say it all....they are looking to restructure how they are gonna do things....they got this!

Swisher to me has breakout year all over him. I mean the Yankee mystic hasn't shined in on the Bronx in quite a few years....this dude is still only 28 and he has shown pop. I can see him being what Jason Giambi was just healthy and better in the clubhouse.

don't get me wrong, i actually liked the Swisher acquisition... he's not making all that much at $3.6 mil & is cost controlled for another 3 years so he was a good enough gamble to replace Betemit... his high K rate is alarming but we got him for peanuts so no biggie... plus he's a switch hitter & can play multiple positions so he makes a nice utility guy to add to our roster...

when it comes to Cameron i would much prefer save the $10 mil we're using up on him next year to add to whatever leftover funds we have & target a better bat there... anyway i think Cash negotiated that move as part of the CC signing so i guess we'll have to deal w/that one whether we like it or not... i'm hoping for the best w/him... maybe he can repeat some of the power he showed when he was playing for the Mets, that's what i'm hoping for... btw, wasn't he among the guys fingered w/those steroid rumors last year? or was that someone else? i forget... good thing is he's only signed for 1 more year.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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12/13/2008  7:06 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:
If they want Manny or Tex, they have to clear $10M.

that would be solved if we passed up on Mike Cameron... i dunno how much trade value Matsui's got coming off major knee surgery, at least until he shows he's healthy again... maybe at the Allstar break u could trade him for a good player... Randy Wynn would be much more preferable to Mike Cameron tho, i'll say that much, but if the Yanks make the deal to take on Cam's salary it pretty much rules out us going after Wynn.

I meant clearing $10M even without Cameron. If they sign Cameron, you can pretty much forget signing anybody else.

Where are you and TMS getting these predictions from? Do you have access that the media and I don't have to their spending limits? All I read in the media are tons of offers the Yankees have made--officially or informally--and no indications that they're close to their limits.

Yes. Yes we do.

TMS, don't tell Bonn where we get our information from.

hehehe
Bonn1997
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12/13/2008  8:08 AM
Bobby, Giambi & Melky amounted to 60 HRs & 233 RBIs between the 3 of them
This reminds me of one game in 1997 when Tino hit his 33rd HR and Wade Boggs hit his 3rd HR of the season and afterward, Wade Boggs very proudly said, "Me and Tino have combined for 36 HR this year!"
djsunyc
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12/13/2008  9:20 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by djsunyc:

let's put it this way, if the yanks make the playoffs, you're looking at cc + wang + aj in a 5 or 7 game series w/ the great mariano in the pen. filthy...

98 yanks = only 4 guys batting over .300
99 yanks = only 2 guys batting over .300
00 yanks = only 3 guys batting over .300
01 yanks = only 2 guys batting over .300

moral of the story = PITCHING is what lead the yanks to 5 series in 6 years...

You forgot about Joba. In a 5 game series, having a stretched out Joba would be invaluable. If one of the top 3 has an off night or the bullpen is overworked or Mariano can only go 1 inning, Joba can go from long reliever to a 2-3 inning guy or even close if need be. Then in a 7 game series your 4th starter had a 2.71 ERA as a starter last year, which would have been 2nd in the AL.

i really like the mental makeup of our rotation. you have 3 pitchers in cc + burnett + joba that will throw the ball at you if they get pissed. plus, they all can make up a defensive line in football.

if we can get 25 starts outta burnett, i'm fine with that b/c we have quality arms to spot start 10 times throughout the course of the season.
BigSm00th
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12/13/2008  4:06 PM
thats the thing DJ, we aren't going to get 25 starts out of burnett. maybe over the next 3 years, but come on, this guy has been healthy TWO TIMES in his career and both times were walk years. this guy is a deadbeat, plain and simple, reminds of carl pavano fleecing ca$hman for money. why not just sign pettitte for 2 years, why do they need this guy for 5 years! what about all the pitching in the minors? why not sign ben sheets, a guy with legit health problems but nastier stuff than burnett, for 2 years? burnett is going to take the money and run, i honestly don't think he'll hit 25 starts of the next 2 years. he'll hurt his elbow, miss 6 months, this is just wasted money we should've let atlanta sign this guy
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nyk4ever
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12/13/2008  4:09 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

let's put it this way, if the yanks make the playoffs, you're looking at cc + wang + aj in a 5 or 7 game series w/ the great mariano in the pen. filthy...

98 yanks = only 4 guys batting over .300
99 yanks = only 2 guys batting over .300
00 yanks = only 3 guys batting over .300
01 yanks = only 2 guys batting over .300

moral of the story = PITCHING is what lead the yanks to 5 series in 6 years...

You've made my point for me DJ. If Thats your rotation for the series then whats the point of using Joba in the starting rotation? Let's put Joba in as the 8th inning man right now and make every single game of the year a 7 inning game.
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BigSm00th
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12/13/2008  4:31 PM
have you guys looked at burnetts track record? joba will be our 2 starter b/c a) he's better than wang and b) burnett will be hurt.
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nyk4ever
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12/13/2008  4:33 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

have you guys looked at burnetts track record? joba will be our 2 starter b/c a) he's better than wang and b) burnett will be hurt.

I totally agree with you about Burnett, but if the idea is to sign Burnett to a 5year deal(which I totally disagree with signing him at all) then Joba should not be in the rotation.
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djsunyc
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12/13/2008  5:03 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by djsunyc:

let's put it this way, if the yanks make the playoffs, you're looking at cc + wang + aj in a 5 or 7 game series w/ the great mariano in the pen. filthy...

98 yanks = only 4 guys batting over .300
99 yanks = only 2 guys batting over .300
00 yanks = only 3 guys batting over .300
01 yanks = only 2 guys batting over .300

moral of the story = PITCHING is what lead the yanks to 5 series in 6 years...

You've made my point for me DJ. If Thats your rotation for the series then whats the point of using Joba in the starting rotation? Let's put Joba in as the 8th inning man right now and make every single game of the year a 7 inning game.

joba might become better than all of them eventually. but you still keep him in the rotation to build him up as a starting pitcher for the future.

as for burnett, last 5 seasons:

19 starts
32 starts
21 starts
25 starts
34 starts

the pavano thing came out of nowhere. he was throwing 30+ starts a year before he became a yank. there's no way to predict these things. i think burnett is good for 20+ starts a year. there's nothing wrong with that. like i said, we have the arms to fill in the gaps if pitchers get injured. no more ponson + rasner.
BigSm00th
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12/13/2008  5:24 PM
fair enough, he just reminds me of tim thomas, having hands-down his two best years in walk years (34 starts, only 12-12 but a 3.45 ERA and 198 Ks in 209 IP in 05 and then last year's 34 starts, 18-10, 231 K in 221 IP). that is just a dubious stat. maybe it doesn't tell the whole story, but it's certainly a red flag that only burnett's performance can change. also keep in mind burnett is 31, so in years 4 or 5 of this contract i expect many, many missed starts.

that being said, joba may still be the best of the punch. got his feet wet last year, i think its realistic for him to win over 15 games if he's starting from day 1 this year. CC, AJ, joba, chien-ming, and pettitte as the top 5 is pretty damn nasty, esp. with the kids in the farm ready to fill in for injuries.

[Edited by - bigsm00th on 12-13-2008 2:27 PM]
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BigSm00th
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12/13/2008  5:32 PM
also, if we had to guess what opening day starting lineup is, what would it be? obviously damon and DJ are top 2, and arod's either 3 or 4. Who is protecting arod? Nady? Matsui? Posada hitting at 5? Where's Cameron? i guess a lot depends on who is swinging a good stick, and i think its clear ca$hman wants more of a balance offensively and a better defensive team/better clubhouse chemistry.
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