martin wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

TLover wrote:Would keep an eye on Dereck Lively. Mavs gave Aldama big money to play center for them. Lively has foot issues which is not good for a center but his skill set is what Mitch gave us.

Was looking at this route weeks ago. The main issue is Lively makes $7.2mil. We would need to trade 2 for 1 with Deuce & Dadiet. But then have 2 roster spots needed to be filled at about a $2.5mil rate or $5mil total. The Knicks only have about $3.2mil left under the 2nd apron. Granted they could sign both Nickel & Kayil for about $1.5mil each to cover that. But that combination of Lively, Nickel, Kayil isn't ideal for a championship contender.

Ideal scenario for best chance at back to back. Is trading Deuce for Diabate. Signing Bron for vet min. Trade Dadiet for future 2nder to clear roster spot. Sign Nickel to a multi year deal around rookie min for full bird right control.

Towns/Diabate/Drummond
Bron/Diabate/Diawara
Annuoby/Hart/Nickel
Mikal/Shamet/Clarkson
Brunson/Alvarado/Kolek

Good take. Only thing you might need to consider is Deuce's trade value and perhaps that Diabate is well regarded in Charlotte. Can't say he is the solution a the 5 for Charlotte. He is on an expiring this year and not eligiable for extension until Feb of 2027. He about won the staring role out of default and they did really well but he is it thin for the 5.
The money works as a trade but Can't say what Deuces role would be and if they want to pay him. f
Its a good idea but many moving parts to work thru and I think he is still their starting center?

Gut feeling is that the Hornets want a 1st rounder back for Diabate. Probably wouldn't be a Deuce for Diabate deal straight up if pulled off. Knicks would need to work magic on a 3 way deal where they could get a protected 1st back for Deuce that they are able to slide to the Hornets.

OR, or Knicks FO need to back channel with Diabate's agent or help him switch to CAA ala OG couple years back

Ah the old Leon special!

Diabate for 3 2nd's should have gotten the deal done already. But Hornets most likely fighting hard to prevent a Knicks repeat. Given they are attempting to contender over the upcoming years.

martin wrote:Some thoughtful options

He has some good thoughts, and I do like the idea of Portland as a trade option with either Potter or Carlson. I don’t like how loosely he’s treating Deuce in these trade possibilities. Deuce is still a highly valuable player who is still essentially our 6th man. Not trading him for a third string center with a couple of second round picks coming back. If you’re trading him for an elite backup, maybe, but I think we are robbing Peter to pay Paul, as they say. I want to hold onto him and figure out a reasonable extension as a first option. I think he’s more retainable than Mitch was. I would however send Dadiet and seconds for Carlson or Potter, or another similar center. My favorite option down the road is still Dylan Cardwell if he ever becomes gettable.

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:Some thoughtful options

He has some good thoughts, and I do like the idea of Portland as a trade option with either Potter or Carlson. I don’t like how loosely he’s treating Deuce in these trade possibilities. Deuce is still a highly valuable player who is still essentially our 6th man. Not trading him for a third string center with a couple of second round picks coming back. If you’re trading him for an elite backup, maybe, but I think we are robbing Peter to pay Paul, as they say. I want to hold onto him and figure out a reasonable extension as a first option. I think he’s more retainable than Mitch was. I would however send Dadiet and seconds for Carlson or Potter, or another similar center. My favorite option down the road is still Dylan Cardwell if he ever becomes gettable.

Your not wrong. Teams that don't extend often trade. The thing here is Deuce value is predicated on his next contract for whomever gets him. So your looking objectively at a 6-2 tweener guard with good on ball defense that can come in and score. Who needs a player, and with money tight, whats his next contract look like and who got it? Contenders are tight and teams building that have the money might have bench already? Im not saying he is low value, but this is just a few things Leon has to be looking at if he is even trying to use Deuce as an assett. Shamet obviously fills the role nice and after him? Nikel? Dadiet? Slide Josh/MIkal over? Is Mo in the rotation? Clarkson is still here. Given the needs I don't see a deficit if Deuce is traded for back up center or part of a bigger package for one.

As for Dadiet, a lot of his tape of his good outings in Gleague has him going to the rim. One might draw some paralells to Deuces development given how raw both were coming in. Dadiet younger of course. The shot is there but the rest of his game was not. Needed to get stronger. He is still really young so its hard as a fan to pinpoint his trajectory.

As noted, he could be in the same role at the end of the bench, salary dumped, traded alone or as a package, or a long shot rotational player. at 6-8 or 6-9 he has some lenght to use.

We need a capable back up to compliment Drummond.
Long time until october and I have full faith in leon and Co.

Deuce’s value is lower because of the contract status as you stated. Knicks can easily extend KAT and Hart at similar numbers (not increases) and have enough second apron wiggle room to bring back Deuce on a reasonable contract in line with what similar role players signed this summer (Dean Wade, Keon Ellis, Sexton, etc). He was iffy in the playoff with healthy being a factor, but extending him when he’s not at his peak value is smart. He is a very useful player for the Knicks. Way more useful than moving him for a backup center who isn’t absolutely elite. Deuce is always an advanced metrics stud, and while I don’t put everything on that, it’s also not nothing. I want to keep him and figure out a different way to add quality center depth.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:Some thoughtful options

He has some good thoughts, and I do like the idea of Portland as a trade option with either Potter or Carlson. I don’t like how loosely he’s treating Deuce in these trade possibilities. Deuce is still a highly valuable player who is still essentially our 6th man. Not trading him for a third string center with a couple of second round picks coming back. If you’re trading him for an elite backup, maybe, but I think we are robbing Peter to pay Paul, as they say. I want to hold onto him and figure out a reasonable extension as a first option. I think he’s more retainable than Mitch was. I would however send Dadiet and seconds for Carlson or Potter, or another similar center. My favorite option down the road is still Dylan Cardwell if he ever becomes gettable.

This is Deuce’s last year with the Knicks. Either you trade him now for another player or future picks or you risk losing him next offseason for no assets in return.

Shamet has taken over as 6th man of the team and Alvarado and Kolek can both run point when JB is resting on the bench. Alvarado is really a combo guard in today’s nba.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:Feel like Deuce and Mitch have a ton of similarities through a particular spectrum.

- Both can start but probably not their forte position as they are much MORE valuable off the bench in a reduced role. Both are elite role defensive players who can sometimes start. That's their best value positions in a rotation. Sixth/seventh players in a very very good rotation to compliment the starters. Outside of their elite skills, there are some limiting skills on the offensive end of things.

- Both are injury prone; we can complain and point to OG and his injury history and Deuce is at the same level at when OG was his worst in Toronto, and that was despite being in the former Dallas medical staff the past 2 years with Deuce. Maybe a fluke or maybe not but it is real with Deuce.

- To me, it feels like both are maxed out in their roles. For Deuce in particular, I don't think his handle and feel for the game in terms of passing will evolve much. That limits the teams that will want him but within the right rotation it also may not matter. With the Knicks, it kinda matters (with OG, Mikal, and others not being super ball handlers under heavy pressure).

Deuce for this upcoming year has a tiny contract and would be perfect for teams who barely have cap wiggle room. But he does not have an extension so that may scare some teams unless they know they like him long term? Boston needed to commit 3 years at a costly price on Mitch considering his injury and starting and load management history.

Deuce is NY's best asset in the right trade for a long term or backup center.

Deuce is a great asset for a longterm backup center I agree. The issue is there aren’t too many good centers who make similar money to him. Diabate and Missi are two very much discussed options. Pickings are slim besides that. The goal is to trade Deuce to become a better team, and given his salary, that’s very hard to accomplish. If we trade him fine, but I’d love to extend him and continue to maintain elite guard depth. I actually think Deuce is more valuable than Mitch for us (can play 2 positions, younger, can play more games, and can play more minutes) when you consider the fact that he won’t cost as much to resign. He can be had for significantly less than the MLE that Mitch signed for.

The Knicks only have so many assets to trade. Generally, you are not trading any of the starters.

The Knicks FO will not limit themselves to thinking that they need to trade only Deuce for a backup center, but he is a duplicate skillset that can be combined with other players and picks to make up the salary difference. The FO will also take into account the second apron and what that means long term with Deuce on an extension with Hart, KAT, and Brunson in mind.

martin wrote:Mo, GTA, Shamet can't be traded until Dec 15.

The only non starter, tradable players the Knicks got in the short term are Deuce, Dadiet, Kolek. $4M, $3M, $2.3M respectively.

$7M in movable cap space should be sufficient for any remaining moves

And Brock Aller is sitting on an ample Hookers & Blow slush fund from all of the cash considerations he generates on draft nights

We’d have to trade to trade Deuce, Dadiet and Kolek. With Lively’s injuries, don’t think we need to add any picks or if we do, it shouldn’t be much. Maybe we need a 2nd team to route those 3 players to and 2nd round picks get sent to Dallas

We’d then have enough space to sign Nickel, McCullar and Kayil or some other young PG (Akins?) to fit under the 2nd apron

Lively is only 22 and is really good defensively

2nd team:
Alvarado
Clarkson
Shamet
Diawara
Lively

3rd team:
Kayil or Akins or similar
McCullar
Nickel
Drummond