martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I think if you identify a gem of a MLE signing you have to take it over 35 y/o Bogie. We might be better off without a massive trade at this point anyway. Adding a younger guy to lock up for multiple years OR a more impactful guy with MLE should be higher priority than keeping Bogie around for hypothetical trade scenarios that might never matriculate.

Adding someone via MLE is the same hypothetical as a trade?

I think Bogs club option (June 28, draft 26/27) has a lot of value prior to free agency for teams looking to get under the tax line or make a splash in free agency. But GMs have gotten a lot better at signing contracts and the value of expiring deals have declined accordingly.

The MLE pool offers more options and you don't need to give up any assets.

OG's opt in is June 24. If he opts in- holy ****. Expect some fireworks over the last week of June.

Clean wrote:

VDesai wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I think if you identify a gem of a MLE signing you have to take it over 35 y/o Bogie. We might be better off without a massive trade at this point anyway. Adding a younger guy to lock up for multiple years OR a more impactful guy with MLE should be higher priority than keeping Bogie around for hypothetical trade scenarios that might never matriculate.

Who would be that gem? Would you do it for someone like De'Anthony Melton? I keep coming back to Bogey is consistent mid teens NBA scorer and a 40% 3pt shooter who was playing on a bum wrist for much of the time he was here. He started looking like he was part of the flow towards the end. I see having shooting/bucket getting like that off the bench as a massive weapon for the Knicks. I'm not as hyped about the MLE market - I think the use of this salary slot is best served on what Bogey brings and the wild card of potentially using his contract at the deadline (even if we don't use it, its only 1 yr left).

The reason why there's no answer to guarding Kristaps is why he was called the unicorn when he was here. There's very few true stretch 5s that really shoot it like he can. Turner is kind of a lesser Kristaps in the sense that a lot of teams will take the chance on a 35% guy taking this shots, but Kristaps is another tier above as a shooter and if he gets hot its a true barrage. For them to have Horford and KP is what makes them so tough. Everyone on that team can stretch the floor. The worst shooter is probably Tatum...

We unfortunately never played them at full strength (with OG and Randle). Will be interesting to see with OG available to roam how things would look. Hart does a fair job on Tatum.

My issue with Bogey is defense. If we can get similar offense with improved defense from another player I would love to go with that. If that is not possible I can live with Bogey. He did seem to improve on defense by playoff time.

I think you are right on his defense. I think this board has a little bit of homerism on Bogs that is overstating his offensive skills. He takes a lot of shots, not necessary efficiently. He shoots pretty well from three but takes a lot of off balance and awkward mid-ranged shots a relatively low clip. His salary can be replaced with a better rotation piece that better fits the timeline of this team.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Clean wrote:

VDesai wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I think if you identify a gem of a MLE signing you have to take it over 35 y/o Bogie. We might be better off without a massive trade at this point anyway. Adding a younger guy to lock up for multiple years OR a more impactful guy with MLE should be higher priority than keeping Bogie around for hypothetical trade scenarios that might never matriculate.

Who would be that gem? Would you do it for someone like De'Anthony Melton? I keep coming back to Bogey is consistent mid teens NBA scorer and a 40% 3pt shooter who was playing on a bum wrist for much of the time he was here. He started looking like he was part of the flow towards the end. I see having shooting/bucket getting like that off the bench as a massive weapon for the Knicks. I'm not as hyped about the MLE market - I think the use of this salary slot is best served on what Bogey brings and the wild card of potentially using his contract at the deadline (even if we don't use it, its only 1 yr left).

The reason why there's no answer to guarding Kristaps is why he was called the unicorn when he was here. There's very few true stretch 5s that really shoot it like he can. Turner is kind of a lesser Kristaps in the sense that a lot of teams will take the chance on a 35% guy taking this shots, but Kristaps is another tier above as a shooter and if he gets hot its a true barrage. For them to have Horford and KP is what makes them so tough. Everyone on that team can stretch the floor. The worst shooter is probably Tatum...

We unfortunately never played them at full strength (with OG and Randle). Will be interesting to see with OG available to roam how things would look. Hart does a fair job on Tatum.

My issue with Bogey is defense. If we can get similar offense with improved defense from another player I would love to go with that. If that is not possible I can live with Bogey. He did seem to improve on defense by playoff time.

I think you are right on his defense. I think this board has a little bit of homerism on Bogs that is overstating his offensive skills. He takes a lot of shots, not necessary efficiently. He shoots pretty well from three but takes a lot of off balance and awkward mid-ranged shots a relatively low clip. His salary can be replaced with a better rotation piece that better fits the timeline of this team.

Don't really understand this analysis. Bogey is ~60% TS for like 17-18 PPG over the last 5 seasons. That is a very efficient scorer - 20-30pts above the league average.

Agreed on the Randle point. Randle is the hub that creates open catch and shoot 3s. Brunson got very few opportunities on these without Randle. DDV was literally lighting up the NBA on these. I think Bogs will benefit. If Evan Fournier could set a Knicks 3 pts record playing with JR than I think Bogs will certainly be able to get some good looks. Have to believe the wrist injury definitely took away some of his shooting efficiency as well.

As Badly mentions KAT has a lot familiar faces regarding the knicks. Thibs, Rosas and CAA all make for a cozy arrangement.
At 7 foot KAT can also play the 5. If one of Mitch or iHart is gone, that might matter.

Media loves to starphuch fans into reading but quite frankly I don't know if we really need one more. I have high regard for randle as a 25-10 guy with improving passing skills and part of the family. But so was IQ/RJ and all it took was a few great wins to see fans are hindsight driven as we can't see what our FO/Coaching saw for potential.

Most fans have "KAT IS SOFT" and his past to go on. Some truth there no doubt. Fact is what of the future?? His health? Not like Randle been there the end of last two seasons either. Just saying to keep an open mind. KAT had a great season so the optics look good for him and media to talk this up.

Im keeping an open mind. Once finals are over teams can negotiate with its own players and perhaps come to agreement. If iHart wants to be here perhaps there is a short window where knicks offer. If he wants to shop then maybe we make a trade and let him walk? Not saying I want this, but if options dry up fast knicks have to look for themselves. If iHart wants money then He very well can get it. We can give him a one year at 16mm then resign him next year. There are risks with that for him. Can we do a multi year with a player option after one year? Just curious if anyone knows.

Same for OG. If he wants to be wined and dined he enters into a whole different ball game. Can't imagine where Leons son whose his agent and we make that trade that it ever goes to that. Winning? OG can do that here. Money? Ditto. OG seems like a rather cultured dude given his pops was a professor. lets hope NYC over Philly can satisfy some of that. iHart? is star rose here and he deserves a raise. How big? Hard to quantify as a fan. We don't know his motivations. He married, perhaps with a kid by now to women from Texas.

Mitch? He keeps breaking. His contract is rather easy and perhaps he is role player going forward with minutes not so high? Maybe he is part of a trade?

Bojan/Randle fits Kat Salary for now. Minny has Apron issues and ownership war. Mike Bloomberg, the 12th wealthiest man on earth just joined them. They go to arbitrage soon and I'd suspect Mike is their angel to fix any funding shortfalls.

Im good running it back and this FO has my confidence if not. Nalod is easy these days.

Knicks trade Mitch & #25 to Memphis for #9 & #38
Knicks draft Flipkowski at #9
Knicks draft Ron Ron Holmes at #24
Knicks trade #38 & #39 for #31
Knicks draft Ryan Dunn at #31
Knicks don't match IHart's contract offer in FA.
Knicks resign OG
Knicks extend Brunson

Flipkowski/Holmes/Simms
Randle/Annunoby/Holmes/Dunn
Annunoby/Bojan/Hart/Dunn
Donte/Hart/Deuce
Brunson/Deuce/Vet min

The idea is to actually utilize the draft and the rookie scale contracts to build a team 10 deep that in 2-3 years will be Finals contender ready while still being under the first apron. While all these other teams start getting smacked by the taxes. Have potentially 4 first in 2025 to utilize for the Bojan upgrade to find a go to feature for the 2nd unit that the rest could play off of. As well as land the 3rd PG & 3rd C.

newyorknewyork wrote:This will be an unpopular route. But for the sake of discussion and covering all angles.

Knicks trade Mitch & #25 to Memphis for #9 & #38
Knicks draft Flipkowski at #9
Knicks draft Ron Ron Holmes at #24
Knicks trade #38 & #39 for #31
Knicks draft Ryan Dunn at #31
Knicks don't match IHart's contract offer in FA.
Knicks resign OG
Knicks extend Brunson

Flipkowski/Holmes/Simms
Randle/Annunoby/Holmes/Dunn
Annunoby/Bojan/Hart/Dunn
Donte/Hart/Deuce
Brunson/Deuce/Vet min

The idea is to actually utilize the draft and the rookie scale contracts to build a team 10 deep that in 2-3 years will be Finals contender ready while still being under the first apron. While all these other teams start getting smacked by the taxes. Have potentially 4 first in 2025 to utilize for the Bojan upgrade to find a go to feature for the 2nd unit that the rest could play off of. As well as land the 3rd PG & 3rd C.

So let me respond with my opinion on what you've laid out above.

- if we could trade Mitch for that package - by all means go get #9 and #38 for Mitch/25.
- the Filipkowski pick I don't like -- the few times I've watched him I see nothing special physically or athletically and the thought of Thibs 1) going with 2 rookies and Simms at center is really far fetched if you think about that for a bit.
- back to the #9 pick --- without knowing much about most of the high ranked picks if we could get D Carter in this draft I'd love it. A great defender, great rebounder with what looks like a really nice 3 point stroke and growing on ball (PG) game. Screams Thib guy all the way.
- at #24 --- I don't see Holmes as a center and I don't like the conference. If we are looking for a rookie center - I'd be hoping for Edey, Ware or Missi either at 24 or using the 2nd round pick 38 to move up for one of those 3.
- I think we have another 2nd round pick (our original) and with that you could go for Dunn or another specific player Knicks like.
- The don't match I-Hart would be difficult --- I don't think you could do this without having a replacement trade for a vet. lined up (not even sure who we could target to replace I-Hart but again Thibs with 2 rookies to go against guys like Embid, KP, Bam - that ain't happening.

Most of all I like the Mitch trade but don't see how Memphis would be giving us #9 for constantly broken down in garage Mitch. While I know Mitch had some solid/great moments against Embid I also know Embid put up a +50 on us and avg (30? or so a game) so not like Mitch was shutting anyone down outside of that great stretch at the garden in game 1 (? I think).

Hard for me to put forth my own plan because no idea what direction we are leaning with guys like Bogey/Mitch -- it's obvious we want IHart/OG back.

KnickDanger wrote:I doubt they would sell low on Mitch and I don’t see takers at a reasonable return until he shows he can stay on the court. And with IHart possibly gone I don’t see the FO letting go of Mitch.

You may be right on the not selling low on Mitch part --- I do think though we have plenty of assets to package with Mitch to maybe either move up in draft and or target another vet maybe at another position.

Mitch really is a no for me -- zero offense, defense is solid but overrated (IMO) and he's ALWAYS injured/unavailable.

newyorknewyork wrote:This will be an unpopular route. But for the sake of discussion and covering all angles.

Knicks trade Mitch & #25 to Memphis for #9 & #38
Knicks draft Flipkowski at #9
Knicks draft Ron Ron Holmes at #24
Knicks trade #38 & #39 for #31
Knicks draft Ryan Dunn at #31
Knicks don't match IHart's contract offer in FA.
Knicks resign OG
Knicks extend Brunson

Flipkowski/Holmes/Simms
Randle/Annunoby/Holmes/Dunn
Annunoby/Bojan/Hart/Dunn
Donte/Hart/Deuce
Brunson/Deuce/Vet min

The idea is to actually utilize the draft and the rookie scale contracts to build a team 10 deep that in 2-3 years will be Finals contender ready while still being under the first apron. While all these other teams start getting smacked by the taxes. Have potentially 4 first in 2025 to utilize for the Bojan upgrade to find a go to feature for the 2nd unit that the rest could play off of. As well as land the 3rd PG & 3rd C.

No team lets a value guy just walk and there is no way realistically the Knicks would let iHart go anywhere. They are going to offer him HIS max and be done with it, it's that simple a decision for the Knicks IMHO.

As well, the team is built around rim protection, so you will need to keep that in place. I don't think Flip is good enough for the Knicks but how about Clingan? And would he be there around #9?

My thought is that the Knicks LOVE Mitch at his salary level, no matter the injury - give or take - right now. You are giving up a potential All NBA defensive guy for the #9 in a weak draft; you'd better be Kawhi level certain when you give up George Hill.

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