martin wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Clean wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:This game really sucked. I don't see a single positive. No in game adjustments, not even after Butler injury. We could have targeted him and took him out if the series. That would have been prudent. I don't wish injury on anyone but for us not to try to take advantage of it was criminal

Thibs has improved on game to game adjustments but his in game adjustments are still trash. Spo will have an advantage there all day. Spo dont even need to adjust anything. Juts take away anything that is not shooting 3's and win the game. Heat are treating us like we treated the Cavs.

You hit the nail on the head. I liked the starting lineup that Thibs put out there, they got off to a good start. Then Thibs got outcoached, stuck with a small rotation, circled the wagons, so to speak. Didnt bring in help with fresh legs. Even Obi looked gassed at the end.

What’s the adjustment when guys aren’t making wide open shots?

Fewer minutes

It's scintillating stuff Case.

If who you have is not hitting their shots then you go to the next guy. In this case, it's Deuce. I think Deuce would have made life difficult for Lowry or Vincent. They also need to coach whoever is near Love when he gets a defensive rebound to try and contest his outlet passes. Those outlet passes were killers.

We missed too many open shots. We shot 12/20 from the line (60%) and 7/34 from 3 (20%). You could improve those a little bit, still be pretty below average % wise, and we would have won.

The Heat don't have any shot creators aside from Butler. Lowry has not done it consistently in years and Vincent was chucking up 3s. If they continue to play above their heads and we shoot way below ours, that's not gonna be good. But its not reasonable to think that's gonna be the status quo this series.

We dominated early because we obliterated them in the paint. THey made a gambit to leave us open for 3s and clog the paint up - we didn't knock them down. If we did hit some of those 3s we would have pushed the lead past 20+.

Besides Brunson, a 40% shooter who went 0/7, we need guys like IQ and Grimes to make some shots. They did all year. But yes, the Heat defense did well to force Obi into 11 3 pt attempts.

VDesai wrote:We're not gonna keep shooting 20% on 3s- we were 7/34. If we made 10/34 - which is still a putrid 29%, we win the game.

We missed too many open shots. We shot 12/20 from the line (60%) and 7/34 from 3 (20%). You could improve those a little bit, still be pretty below average % wise, and we would have won.

The Heat don't have any shot creators aside from Butler. Lowry has not done it consistently in years and Vincent was chucking up 3s. If they continue to play above their heads and we shoot way below ours, that's not gonna be good. But its not reasonable to think that's gonna be the status quo this series.

We dominated early because we obliterated them in the paint. THey made a gambit to leave us open for 3s and clog the paint up - we didn't knock them down. If we did hit some of those 3s we would have pushed the lead past 20+.

Besides Brunson, a 40% shooter who went 0/7, we need guys like IQ and Grimes to make some shots. They did all year. But yes, the Heat defense did well to force Obi into 11 3 pt attempts.

These two been the biggest disappointments this playoff. Grimes is a shooter and he was shooting like 11% from 3 before his injury, IQ wants the bag but he been playing like a bag of dog poop for the whole playoffs. I won't stress too much on them because they still have the excuse of being young but this is bad. I also won't stress on how poorly we are shooting because this is just a personnel issue. Shooting been a problem all year and if not for rebounds we would be one of the worst offenses in the league.

This year things broke right for us to be in the conference finals but our trash shooting might end up killing that chance. If this continues some changes will have to be made. Some players we like/love will need to be traded for actual shot makers. We need more creativity from our offense. This falls on the coach to actually implement some of those creative plays he only calls when both Randle and Brunson are out. It also falls on players to pass the damn ball quickly when you get doubled.

Everything we get from here on out is more than we expected this year. If our run ends in the 2nd round it will just be disappointing that luck shined on us for a long playoff run and we wasted it.

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Panos wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

Panos wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Knicks have Fournier on the bench whose a pretty good outside shooter

I know he isnt a fan favorite but if Spo can find minutes for Duncan and start Love (two players whose defense is just has bad) I think Thibs can give Fournier a look out there.

It;s not like J. Hart was doing much out there anyway today

Really? You think Fournier is our answer to the Heat? Damn we are in trouble then

The couple of games EF saw action near the end of the season he couldnt hit a shot either. Hes rusty. Not going to be a savior.

Right, Fournier would play exactly as Duncan did and go 0-5 and be useless for the Knicks but would serve nicely as a player to attack repeatedly just as the Knicks did with Duncan, so yeah play those guys.

Because what the Knicks were doing was clearly working, right?

Hart threw up about 4 wide open air balls and was getting worked by Butlers but sure, throwing Fournier out there for a few minutes is a terrible idea.

;and for the record, the Knicks didnt attack Duncan at all.

Yes.
It was a terrible idea.
I invite you to check the games that EF got minutes in the last couple months and tell us what he contributed

EF showed his face….what…a whole 2 games for a total for like 10 minutes?

Is Fournier our savior? NO..thats not what I’m implying, BUT he is a proven outside shooter. One of the best last season, and Miami were GIVING the Knicks the 3 point line.

With 5 minutes left, not looking too good in our favor, why not throw him out there and see what happens.

Better yet, if defense is such a concern with him, why not sub him in at the same time Spo put in D. Robinson? You’re losing the game, you have to do SOMETHING. Thibs had zero in game adjustments. That’s all I’m saying.

And Contrary to what Martin says, Duncan was not involved in a “bunch of PNR”.

Clean wrote:I know we have some RJ/Randle fans but at least one of them has to go for someone with better shooting/defense. This is 2023 we can't be trotting out a starting lineup with 2 inefficient offensive players and a non factor on offense at center. Mitch has done enough with rebounding to fool people into thinking we have a good offense. Grimes is good on D but not shooting good enough for being labeled a shooter. RJ has stepped up recently but I don't trust him to keep it going for the rest of his career. Randle is who he is and that is not a good fit for this team if we want to get better. We can't give him away because we need all the talent we can get but we need to upgrade from him if possible. By trading RJ and/or Randle we can take in a more offensive centered star player without tipping too heavily into bad defense for the team as a whole. This team can't afford another bad defender if we keep both RJ and Randle.

We lose a second round playoff game and we're back to dumping Randle and RJ. Okay.

We need guys to step up. Obi, IQ, Grimes. Obi had it going early then went silent. Took too many threes. IQ and Grimes were invisible. Even our rock steady bench asset, JHart, looked uncomfortable shooting the ball.

We looked pretty soft yesterday. Besides JHart and RJ, we had no one else looking to be physical.
Fans loved the fast pace action until we could not hit a three. Then they saw Miami just overpower us.

Don't think it's panic mode, as some on here seem to be in, though. We just need to make shots and
bring more physicality. This is a playoff series. Guys have to get tough and be ready to go to war. We had too many guys looking to stay out of the trenches yesterday and play soft basketball. Ok approach, IF you are hitting all those three point shots. We don't.

KnickDanger wrote:

Clean wrote:I know we have some RJ/Randle fans but at least one of them has to go for someone with better shooting/defense. This is 2023 we can't be trotting out a starting lineup with 2 inefficient offensive players and a non factor on offense at center. Mitch has done enough with rebounding to fool people into thinking we have a good offense. Grimes is good on D but not shooting good enough for being labeled a shooter. RJ has stepped up recently but I don't trust him to keep it going for the rest of his career. Randle is who he is and that is not a good fit for this team if we want to get better. We can't give him away because we need all the talent we can get but we need to upgrade from him if possible. By trading RJ and/or Randle we can take in a more offensive centered star player without tipping too heavily into bad defense for the team as a whole. This team can't afford another bad defender if we keep both RJ and Randle.

We lose a second round playoff game and we're back to dumping Randle and RJ. Okay.

I never said dump. We don't have the talent level to give them away and still play well. I said upgrade from them for better fittng players. In the post you quoted it specifically says "We can't give him away because we need all the talent we can get but we need to upgrade from him if possible." How do you read that and come away with I want to dump them?

It is also not "back to" anything because I never came off this stance. Both played terrible defense all season. Both are bad shooters. The whole year our team has had some of the worst shooting numbers in the league but ended up with a good offensive rating because of rebounds. In this years playoff it is showing why that is not sustainable. We are having bottom of the barrel shooting on a nightly basis. We have about as good of a playoff path as you can get and still it is going to be a struggle if we can't even shoot close to league average shooting.

The Cavs are a good matchup for us and then we play the 8th seed. You can't ask for a better path than that. The problem is the Heat have improved their shooting and we have gotten worst.

Nalod wrote:

Clean wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Clean wrote:I know we have some RJ/Randle fans but at least one of them has to go for someone with better shooting/defense. This is 2023 we can't be trotting out a starting lineup with 2 inefficient offensive players and a non factor on offense at center. Mitch has done enough with rebounding to fool people into thinking we have a good offense. Grimes is good on D but not shooting good enough for being labeled a shooter. RJ has stepped up recently but I don't trust him to keep it going for the rest of his career. Randle is who he is and that is not a good fit for this team if we want to get better. We can't give him away because we need all the talent we can get but we need to upgrade from him if possible. By trading RJ and/or Randle we can take in a more offensive centered star player without tipping too heavily into bad defense for the team as a whole. This team can't afford another bad defender if we keep both RJ and Randle.

We lose a second round playoff game and we're back to dumping Randle and RJ. Okay.

I never said dump. We don't have the talent level to give them away and still play well. I said upgrade from them for better fittng players. In the post you quoted it specifically says "We can't give him away because we need all the talent we can get but we need to upgrade from him if possible." How do you read that and come away with I want to dump them?

It is also not "back to" anything because I never came off this stance. Both played terrible defense all season. Both are bad shooters. The whole year our team has had some of the worst shooting numbers in the league but ended up with a good offensive rating because of rebounds. In this years playoff it is showing why that is not sustainable. We are having bottom of the barrel shooting on a nightly basis. We have about as good of a playoff path as you can get and still it is going to be a struggle if we can't even shoot close to league average shooting.

The Cavs are a good matchup for us and then we play the 8th seed. You can't ask for a better path than that. The problem is the Heat have improved their shooting and we have gotten worst.

Miami was three games back from us. Not a typical 8 seed. We not talking about a **** team.
Don't believe me?
1. They were in finals two years ago.
2. they were top seed last year, lost to Boston in 7 to go to finals.
3. They just took apart the no. 1 seed.

We got beat by a good team. There is a reality here that sometimes you win, some times you lose, but when you do you get beaten. Fans just assume we "lost" and could have done things differently.
Team played good, they did not execute what the opponent gave us. It happens.

Moving from Randle or RJ without real details is fantasy thinking..........
Thats for the off season.

I’ll take it one step further. It seems like there is a broad assumption that the Knicks should win every game if Thibs can just make the right adjustments. Even when they are down what amounts to 2 starters. And are missing completely wide open shots. And only hitting 12 of 20 FTs. And not getting fouls called equal to that of the opponent.

Included in some of those adjustments is playing Fournier minutes. Fucking Fourier?

It’s mind boggling to me.

Other teams are pretty good too. Miami is REALLY good.