Nalod wrote:MJ or Kobe were not PG's. Pippen and Odom were point forwards.
Melo could have played a "Point" role with in many offenses. I don' think anyone things Melos should be guarding Chris Paul and other guards. His only crime is he holds the ball as he is elite to create his own shot.

Nalod thinks Melo was a starphuch whose coach's could not the right way to use him. His level of commitment was questionable with MDA.
At the same time, Knicks have not a good job building balanced rosters.

Blame? Lots to go around. At this juncture at age 33 you don't build around Melo, and maybe that was a true statement all along. Maybe you just build WITH Melo. IF that was the case, maybe he never wants a trade to Knicks. We can go back 1,000 times and we don't change a thing.

Today, we have a 33 elite shooter who holds the ball, cannot play two way for starter minutes all season long, reluctant to pass the ball, and eats 25% of our salary. I'd say its time. Not hate, just business.

You throw that "elite" word at Melo. He isn't elite anything. 43% shooting is not elite. Melo is Toney Campbell on the T-Wolves. You remember Toney Campbell he averaged 24 points for the Wolves. Product of shots. While his peers are shooting 50+. Not a superstar just an average player thinking he is star material and entitled to do what he damn pleases at the expense of the team. MDA had a plan for him and he didn't buy in he wanted him to distribute at a higher level he even tried to make him a point forward. You know be LeBron like or Harden like. Tried to get him to involve teammates.

Melo never got it he just never will. He thinks the game is all about him when it is about the team and sacrifice. He forgot how he won the NCAA championship. It was his passing that won it for him. Team play was the main factor for his winning. He should have learned from Kidd when he was a teammate the impact of keeping his teammates engaged they just doesn't get it. I do believe at this point the adage you can't teach an old dog new tricks comes into play when describing Melo.

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:MJ or Kobe were not PG's. Pippen and Odom were point forwards.
Melo could have played a "Point" role with in many offenses. I don' think anyone things Melos should be guarding Chris Paul and other guards. His only crime is he holds the ball as he is elite to create his own shot.

Nalod thinks Melo was a starphuch whose coach's could not the right way to use him. His level of commitment was questionable with MDA.
At the same time, Knicks have not a good job building balanced rosters.

Blame? Lots to go around. At this juncture at age 33 you don't build around Melo, and maybe that was a true statement all along. Maybe you just build WITH Melo. IF that was the case, maybe he never wants a trade to Knicks. We can go back 1,000 times and we don't change a thing.

Today, we have a 33 elite shooter who holds the ball, cannot play two way for starter minutes all season long, reluctant to pass the ball, and eats 25% of our salary. I'd say its time. Not hate, just business.

You throw that "elite" word at Melo. He isn't elite anything. 43% shooting is not elite. Melo is Toney Campbell on the T-Wolves. You remember Toney Campbell he averaged 24 points for the Wolves. Product of shots. While his peers are shooting 50+. Not a superstar just an average player thinking he is star material and entitled to do what he damn pleases at the expense of the team. MDA had a plan for him and he didn't buy in he wanted him to distribute at a higher level he even tried to make him a point forward. You know be LeBron like or Harden like. Tried to get him to involve teammates.

Melo never got it he just never will. He thinks the game is all about him when it is about the team and sacrifice. He forgot how he won the NCAA championship. It was his passing that won it for him. Team play was the main factor for his winning. He should have learned from Kidd when he was a teammate the impact of keeping his teammates engaged they just doesn't get it. I do believe at this point the adage you can't teach an old dog new tricks comes into play when describing Melo.

Bahahaha. GTFOH. Toney Campbell? We are not talking about Jeremy Lin here. When given the ball Melo has averaged over 27 for us. He has been one of the best offensive players for 14 years. A HOF. Let's just say every NBA player could have been Melo if they shot more. Your good. Toney sure agrees with you, as he is working the night shift at Walmart.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:MJ or Kobe were not PG's. Pippen and Odom were point forwards.
Melo could have played a "Point" role with in many offenses. I don' think anyone things Melos should be guarding Chris Paul and other guards. His only crime is he holds the ball as he is elite to create his own shot.

Nalod thinks Melo was a starphuch whose coach's could not the right way to use him. His level of commitment was questionable with MDA.
At the same time, Knicks have not a good job building balanced rosters.

Blame? Lots to go around. At this juncture at age 33 you don't build around Melo, and maybe that was a true statement all along. Maybe you just build WITH Melo. IF that was the case, maybe he never wants a trade to Knicks. We can go back 1,000 times and we don't change a thing.

Today, we have a 33 elite shooter who holds the ball, cannot play two way for starter minutes all season long, reluctant to pass the ball, and eats 25% of our salary. I'd say its time. Not hate, just business.

You throw that "elite" word at Melo. He isn't elite anything. 43% shooting is not elite. Melo is Toney Campbell on the T-Wolves. You remember Toney Campbell he averaged 24 points for the Wolves. Product of shots. While his peers are shooting 50+. Not a superstar just an average player thinking he is star material and entitled to do what he damn pleases at the expense of the team. MDA had a plan for him and he didn't buy in he wanted him to distribute at a higher level he even tried to make him a point forward. You know be LeBron like or Harden like. Tried to get him to involve teammates.

Melo never got it he just never will. He thinks the game is all about him when it is about the team and sacrifice. He forgot how he won the NCAA championship. It was his passing that won it for him. Team play was the main factor for his winning. He should have learned from Kidd when he was a teammate the impact of keeping his teammates engaged they just doesn't get it. I do believe at this point the adage you can't teach an old dog new tricks comes into play when describing Melo.

Bahahaha. GTFOH. Toney Campbell? We are not talking about Jeremy Lin here. When given the ball Melo has averaged over 27 for us. He has been one of the best offensive players for 14 years. A HOF. Let's just say every NBA player could have been Melo if they shot more. Your good. Toney sure agrees with you, as he is working the night shift at Walmart.

You GTFOH, did I just hurt you with the truth. You keep catering to Melo's whims and you'll go no where fast. He needs an Olympic team to set him straight. 43% he is f'ing Toney Campbell on the T-Wolves. The fact that his game is on the decline you can't see it. He doesn't make anyone better.

nyk4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Zebo13 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...

wow mentioning melo with all those guys is pure comedy. but it's really funny you should mention james harden... isn't it ironic that harden is averaging near a triple-double with the coach that melo was to stubborn to adapt to and decided to stop playing for? if that's not exhibitA of how melo has handled his whole entire career in the NBA, i'm not sure what is.

Doesn't really translate. With the Suns and Rockets D'antoni had a HOF level PG running the entire operation. Melo woulda had to be a role player with subpar talented attempting to run things.

The Melo haters think he should be a HOF point guard if he really cared about winning. It's hard to explain to them he's not necessarily a point guard. They say Melo not being a HOF point guard means he's not trying hard enough.

umm excuse me? melo hater? try ****ing reading you jackass, no one has been a bigger melo suppoter than i have during his time here. and guess what, harden was never a PG before this year either, yet he ADAPTED, something melo wasn't willing to do... which was the entire point of the post, not to compare pgs. your agenda is ****ing insane.

btw good job ignoring my posts to you on previous pages, you had no problem replying to anyone and everyone else. i know they went directly against your agenda, which is why you ignored them, but still. nice touch man.

Not sure I understand the vitriol. I'm sorry if I missed your posts. There were a lot and I responded to a few, not all.

For the record, I think Harden has the toolbox and skillset to be a PG. D'Antoni was smart to see that.

Melo does not have that toolbox or skillset. D'Antoni tried to force Melo to play the one way he apparently knows how to suceed, or have Melo camped in the corner while Lin ran the show. It wasn't a good fit. I think it could've been better if they'd amnesty-ed Amar'e instead of Billups to sign Tyson... but alas. A Billups/Melo/Tyson core would've made more sense under MDA.

I really don't have an agenda. Is it really hard to believe that I think Phil has done a bad job and that Melo is getting unfairly blamed for it? My only agenda is that I would like the Knicks to be good. I apologize if I am overly cranky about this season, but it's been quite a crappy one. At least we have a draft pick this year. Last year we didn't have that (and, yes, I know that's Dolan's fault, not Phil's)

crzymdups wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Zebo13 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...

wow mentioning melo with all those guys is pure comedy. but it's really funny you should mention james harden... isn't it ironic that harden is averaging near a triple-double with the coach that melo was to stubborn to adapt to and decided to stop playing for? if that's not exhibitA of how melo has handled his whole entire career in the NBA, i'm not sure what is.

Doesn't really translate. With the Suns and Rockets D'antoni had a HOF level PG running the entire operation. Melo woulda had to be a role player with subpar talented attempting to run things.

The Melo haters think he should be a HOF point guard if he really cared about winning. It's hard to explain to them he's not necessarily a point guard. They say Melo not being a HOF point guard means he's not trying hard enough.

umm excuse me? melo hater? try ****ing reading you jackass, no one has been a bigger melo suppoter than i have during his time here. and guess what, harden was never a PG before this year either, yet he ADAPTED, something melo wasn't willing to do... which was the entire point of the post, not to compare pgs. your agenda is ****ing insane.

btw good job ignoring my posts to you on previous pages, you had no problem replying to anyone and everyone else. i know they went directly against your agenda, which is why you ignored them, but still. nice touch man.

Not sure I understand the vitriol. I'm sorry if I missed your posts. There were a lot and I responded to a few, not all.

For the record, I think Harden has the toolbox and skillset to be a PG. D'Antoni was smart to see that.

Melo does not have that toolbox or skillset. D'Antoni tried to force Melo to play the one way he apparently knows how to suceed, or have Melo camped in the corner while Lin ran the show. It wasn't a good fit. I think it could've been better if they'd amnesty-ed Amar'e instead of Billups to sign Tyson... but alas. A Billups/Melo/Tyson core would've made more sense under MDA.

I really don't have an agenda. Is it really hard to believe that I think Phil has done a bad job and that Melo is getting unfairly blamed for it? My only agenda is that I would like the Knicks to be good. I apologize if I am overly cranky about this season, but it's been quite a crappy one. At least we have a draft pick this year. Last year we didn't have that (and, yes, I know that's Dolan's fault, not Phil's)

Melo doesn't have the toolbox to stop taking off-balance contested mid-range shots and make a good pass instead? He's had years where he averaged 3.5 to 4 assists a game and with a little bit of smarter decision making, that could have easily been 5.5 to 6. Now, if part of what you mean by a point forward "toolbox" is intelligent decision-making, then yes, he lacks the toolbox.

Cartman718 wrote:so no one else thought that Melo pulled the 30 or 40 every night number out of his aszs? Has he ever even averaged 30 for half a season?

I think he meant how many shots he jacks up

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:MJ or Kobe were not PG's. Pippen and Odom were point forwards.
Melo could have played a "Point" role with in many offenses. I don' think anyone things Melos should be guarding Chris Paul and other guards. His only crime is he holds the ball as he is elite to create his own shot.

Nalod thinks Melo was a starphuch whose coach's could not the right way to use him. His level of commitment was questionable with MDA.
At the same time, Knicks have not a good job building balanced rosters.

Blame? Lots to go around. At this juncture at age 33 you don't build around Melo, and maybe that was a true statement all along. Maybe you just build WITH Melo. IF that was the case, maybe he never wants a trade to Knicks. We can go back 1,000 times and we don't change a thing.

Today, we have a 33 elite shooter who holds the ball, cannot play two way for starter minutes all season long, reluctant to pass the ball, and eats 25% of our salary. I'd say its time. Not hate, just business.

You throw that "elite" word at Melo. He isn't elite anything. 43% shooting is not elite. Melo is Toney Campbell on the T-Wolves. You remember Toney Campbell he averaged 24 points for the Wolves. Product of shots. While his peers are shooting 50+. Not a superstar just an average player thinking he is star material and entitled to do what he damn pleases at the expense of the team. MDA had a plan for him and he didn't buy in he wanted him to distribute at a higher level he even tried to make him a point forward. You know be LeBron like or Harden like. Tried to get him to involve teammates.

Melo never got it he just never will. He thinks the game is all about him when it is about the team and sacrifice. He forgot how he won the NCAA championship. It was his passing that won it for him. Team play was the main factor for his winning. He should have learned from Kidd when he was a teammate the impact of keeping his teammates engaged they just doesn't get it. I do believe at this point the adage you can't teach an old dog new tricks comes into play when describing Melo.

Bahahaha. GTFOH. Toney Campbell? We are not talking about Jeremy Lin here. When given the ball Melo has averaged over 27 for us. He has been one of the best offensive players for 14 years. A HOF. Let's just say every NBA player could have been Melo if they shot more. Your good. Toney sure agrees with you, as he is working the night shift at Walmart.

So was Niq. Similar careers. Good for selling seats and earning the respect of your peers. Not so good for winning playoff games. Funny how this makes some people so emotional.

And, yet, again, the supposed "Melo-lovers/Phil-haters" crowd aren't the ones who gave Melo a five-year near-max deal with a No Trade and a 15% trade kicker. How is it you guys keep missing this? I'm not happy we have Melo signed for so long for so much. I am skeptical Phil can even trade him at this point as his salary will be $30M when you count the trade kicker as of July 1.

And, excuse the caps, but I don't know how to drive home this point any more - HIS SIGNING OF MELO IS ONE OF THE REASONS I THINK HE HAS DONE A SHIT JOB.

My objections in this thread are about placing the blame on Melo, who has been a good soldier, rather than placing the blame where it 100% belongs - on Phil and Dolan's shoulders.

Crzy I think my record speaks for itself that I generally admire your posts. Lots of good info and analysis

We can certainly agree the NTC and kicker, are kicking us now. I'm curious though whether you thought it was a **** job at the time. I simply don't know.

My own view is that it was perhaps a rookie-prez mistake but also based on optimism. He did want to build around Melo, and I think that was a reasonable sentiment (didn't work but ...). ALso Melo behaved very well in that Phil actually put a full max on the table but urged he take less to give the team some flexibility in getting other players. Now one can argue that Phil should have never placed the full max on the table, but he did; and Melo deserves credit for not grabbing the last 5 million or so.

Now as it turns out Melo's play has declined (for whatever reason) and we can't easily trade him because he'll count for 25 mill or whatever in cap space yet contribute like a "mere" 15-20 mill player. Any team taking him is playing with 5-10 mill tied behind their back so to speak

And while we can fault Phil for the big contract (I don't), do you truly think Melo deserves no blame? He comes into the season every season soft. It's easy to get irritated at that when you see him loaf back in transition D, play defense with his hands more than his feet, and take plays off on D and even offense if he doesn't have the ball

There's a reason people weren't beating down our door at the tradeline for Melo, and some of that is Melo's fault on conditioning and effort

Cartman718 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:so no one else thought that Melo pulled the 30 or 40 every night number out of his aszs? Has he ever even averaged 30 for half a season?

Hasn't he averaged 28/29 per a few times??

2006...11 years ago... 28.9
2012...5 years ago... 28.7

With NY... averaging less than 64 games per season and with his tenure with NY Knicks...24.3 ppg avg

So where does he come with the 30 points every night number or even 40 for that matter.
Has he even scored 40 points in 40 games of any season?

I knew he meant it figuratively..He has done close to it in his career, and he has scored 30 and 40 pts many times in his career as well...But since you decided to be literal and call him on it..Is 1 point per game a far reach from which he has averaged in the past???

crzymdups wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Zebo13 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...

wow mentioning melo with all those guys is pure comedy. but it's really funny you should mention james harden... isn't it ironic that harden is averaging near a triple-double with the coach that melo was to stubborn to adapt to and decided to stop playing for? if that's not exhibitA of how melo has handled his whole entire career in the NBA, i'm not sure what is.

Doesn't really translate. With the Suns and Rockets D'antoni had a HOF level PG running the entire operation. Melo woulda had to be a role player with subpar talented attempting to run things.

The Melo haters think he should be a HOF point guard if he really cared about winning. It's hard to explain to them he's not necessarily a point guard. They say Melo not being a HOF point guard means he's not trying hard enough.

umm excuse me? melo hater? try ****ing reading you jackass, no one has been a bigger melo suppoter than i have during his time here. and guess what, harden was never a PG before this year either, yet he ADAPTED, something melo wasn't willing to do... which was the entire point of the post, not to compare pgs. your agenda is ****ing insane.

btw good job ignoring my posts to you on previous pages, you had no problem replying to anyone and everyone else. i know they went directly against your agenda, which is why you ignored them, but still. nice touch man.

Not sure I understand the vitriol. I'm sorry if I missed your posts. There were a lot and I responded to a few, not all.

For the record, I think Harden has the toolbox and skillset to be a PG. D'Antoni was smart to see that.

Melo does not have that toolbox or skillset. D'Antoni tried to force Melo to play the one way he apparently knows how to suceed, or have Melo camped in the corner while Lin ran the show. It wasn't a good fit. I think it could've been better if they'd amnesty-ed Amar'e instead of Billups to sign Tyson... but alas. A Billups/Melo/Tyson core would've made more sense under MDA.

I really don't have an agenda. Is it really hard to believe that I think Phil has done a bad job and that Melo is getting unfairly blamed for it? My only agenda is that I would like the Knicks to be good. I apologize if I am overly cranky about this season, but it's been quite a crappy one. At least we have a draft pick this year. Last year we didn't have that (and, yes, I know that's Dolan's fault, not Phil's)

the vitriol comes from you quoting other people who responded to me and saying things like "melo hater" "comparing melo to a pg" and things such as that. both of which are patently untrue, but it seems like you're doing it because either A) you didn't read the posts or B) you're pushing your own agenda. i don't like being lumped into that ****. give me the same respect i've always given you on here.

as for the rest of your post... you're right harden definitely has the toolbox to do be a PG, but how many people before this year ever thought he passed the ball? i think many nba fans considered to be a black-hole, albeit an efficient one. and again, i keep seeing you say that everyone is blaming melo for the knicks ills. who is blaming melo? people just think at this point the window of winning with melo is over. we need a full rebuild. that's not blaming melo, that's being realistic. although he's not an alpha dog any longer, he can still be an extremely useful piece to a team that is closer to contending than we are. no blame there. none at all.