BigDaddyG wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Boogie averaged 14 & 8

I shocked if Towns averages 12/8/2

At worst 10 & 7 in 20 something crucial minutes in year 1 and grow from there

You're right about Boogie. But you see my point. Boogie was stronger than Towns and Davis was more skilled and athletic going into their rookie years. It will take Towns at least a year to get stronger and learn how to play NBA defense.

Yep and we got all the time in the world to watch them develop. Assuming we don't trade the pick we are going to have a lot to look forward to. Watching the Knicks will be fun again

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Dolan has made us all so impatient. There's nothing wrong with showing some patience with high draft picks. Heck even JORDAN Hill amounted to something after a few years.

I think fans will be patient if Dolan doesnt get involved in basketball decisions and let's Phil do his job

Dolan is involved in almost every basketball decision. Don't kid yourself. That's why they've been so consistently terrible during his tenure.

This is why I think it's WAY more likely we wind up with Kevin Love on draft night than Towns, OK4 or Russell.

they arent trading the pick and Phil said point blank they will groom a star player even if he's not ready.

Well, I hope this is true. I'm starting to see how OK4 would work with Melo. We'll see, I guess. Part of me is tempted to say if they get OK4, just go all power squad and try to get Lance Stephenson in a cap room trade.

Langston
Lance
Melo
OK4
Robin Lopez

We'll see. I feel like the kind of team they build will depend a lot on what happens at the draft.

The other thing with OK4 is he doesnt need a PG (like Amare did with the P&R) to set him up. He's much more like the Ward/Childs teams. Dump it into Ewing and if he's 1-1 your scoring at 60%. If they double move it around.

RLopez, Aldridge, Milsap and Love would all look great next to OK4 (and I dont even love half those guys). Good call on Lance.

Towns is more a wild card, so my philosophy changes there some. Im smarter with my money on FAs and would probably favor a more Briggs (build slower with cheaper upside pieces) if I have Towns. Im so confident in OK4's skill set I pencil him into a squad I can win now with.

blkexec wrote:I think we as fans put too much into who we will draft, eventhough that person is not expected to contribute his first year. Free Agency is what will make or break this team. The top 3 guys in the draft, will not make or break us. You can close your eyes, pick one, and majority will be very happy. Can't do the same with free agency.

I think all three will be All Stars eventually....

But, Towns value can not be measured by stats alone. OK4's value can only be measured by stats alone.
If Towns aint scoring, he's still impacting. If OK4 aint scoring, he's not impacting.
Towns doesn't need plays to be affective. OK4 needs plays called for him to be affective.
Towns opporates all over the court on both ends. OK4 opporates only in the paint, on 1 end.

That tells you alot right there.

Yea absolutely. Agree on all accounts. If we draft Towns get me MONROE and I will party like its 1999. What a monsterous front line. Reminiscent of the 2010 Phil Jackson Lakers or 99 Spurs.

Our front court would be set for over a decade

crzymdups wrote:

blkexec wrote:I think we as fans put too much into who we will draft, eventhough that person is not expected to contribute his first year. Free Agency is what will make or break this team. The top 3 guys in the draft, will not make or break us. You can close your eyes, pick one, and majority will be very happy. Can't do the same with free agency.

I think all three will be All Stars....

And Towns value can not be measured by stats alone. OK4's value can only be measured by stats alone.
If Towns aint scoring, he's still impacting. If OK4 aint scoring, he's not impacting.

That tells you alot right there.

For too many years, this team has squandered and undervalued draft picks. This team doesn't put enough into who we draft. This draft is huge for the Knicks and will determine the course of the next ten years a lot more than free agency will.

I'm actually less worried about free agency than I am about the draft. They REALLY need to get a top three pick and get a stud. OK4, Towns and Russell all look to be studs, but they need to get that top three slot. And it'll come down to luck of the draw, basically.

A top 3 pick is going to happen. So Phil will have the option of selecting those 3 players. Even if we fall out of the top 3, there are still players Phil could pick up (Mudiay, Stein). So I'm happy with either of these guys. I have my preference, but I'm really spliting hairs at this point.

With free agency, how many options do we really have? Just because they are FA's, doesn't mean they want to play for us. Then you have the cap situation with FA. Do you over spend, under spend, save for next season...So many options and variables it's crazy. The draft is simple, pick the best available and watch the seed grow. Nobody knows who's the next Ewing or Jordan, so there's no need to stress about it. Jordan hit a game winning jumper in college......But was basically a roll player on that team. Kobe and Lebron never played college ball, so they were huge gambles as well. So you never know how they will turn out 2-3 years down the road. Just because they interview well, and show maturity, doesn't mean they won't fall off the map, once they get that first check.

With free agency, these guys already passed the rookie test. You know what you are getting. Picking the right FA combination of talent and value will be the key to our success over the next 5-10 years. Especially with the 2016 FA class.

blkexec wrote:I think we as fans put too much into who we will draft, eventhough that person is not expected to contribute his first year. Free Agency is what will make or break this team. The top 3 guys in the draft, will not make or break us. You can close your eyes, pick one, and majority will be very happy. Can't do the same with free agency.

I think all three will be All Stars eventually....

But, Towns value can not be measured by stats alone. OK4's value can only be measured by stats alone.
If Towns aint scoring, he's still impacting. If OK4 aint scoring, he's not impacting.
Towns doesn't need plays to be affective. OK4 needs plays called for him to be affective.
Towns opporates all over the court on both ends. OK4 opporates only in the paint, on 1 end.

That tells you alot right there.

crzymdups wrote:

smackeddog wrote:The thing that pushes me more towards Town, is- if you draft OK4, what free agent do you pair with him in the front court (who's a realistic possibility)? With Towns you have more options- Monroe, Milsap, Kanter, etc.

Towns and Monroe would be interesting. I don't see Milsap leaving Atlanta or Kanter being let go by OKC (he's restricted, no?)

I think with OK4 and Melo - you just need a physical banger to defend. I actually think OK4 is the kind of guy who brings so much structure that you can more easily build a team around him. I think, at least.

gunsnewing wrote:I think MONROE and OK4 are very similar. Ok4 more polished offensively at 19 than Monroe was. But We've already seen Monroe produce in the NBA. Both guys are subpar defenders and really don't block shots. You just have to hope they become adequate. In Monroe's case maybe getting out of Drummond's shadow and in a new system will help him defensively.

Minimally both guys rebound a ton and score inside which is valuable next to a center who protects the rim and spaces the floor

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I think MONROE and OK4 are very similar. Ok4 more polished offensively at 19 than Monroe was. But We've already seen Monroe produce in the NBA. Both guys are subpar defenders and really don't block shots. You just have to hope they become adequate. In Monroe's case maybe getting out of Drummond's shadow and in a new system will help him defensively.

Minimally both guys rebound a ton and score inside which is valuable next to a center who protects the rim and spaces the floor

hey Guns.. if OK4 is "subpar" defender can I call Towns a subpar scorer and rebounder?

Not really but you can if you want lol

I can't deny there is more known than unknown with OK4 so I totally get the people who rather play it safe and draft him. I just have my reasons for wanting Towns. I rather take a chance on a guy who can impact the game even when he is not scoring than watch a guy put up 20 & 10 on losing teams like Love & Lee. There is value to in putting up those numbers but they get in the way of playing elite team ball. You win with 2-way players for the most part. No weak links

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I think MONROE and OK4 are very similar. Ok4 more polished offensively at 19 than Monroe was. But We've already seen Monroe produce in the NBA. Both guys are subpar defenders and really don't block shots. You just have to hope they become adequate. In Monroe's case maybe getting out of Drummond's shadow and in a new system will help him defensively.

Minimally both guys rebound a ton and score inside which is valuable next to a center who protects the rim and spaces the floor

hey Guns.. if OK4 is "subpar" defender can I call Towns a subpar scorer and rebounder?

Not really but you can if you want lol

I can't deny there is more known than unknown with OK4 so I totally get the people who rather play it safe and draft him. I just have my reasons for wanting Towns. I rather came on the guy who can impact the game even when he is not scoring than watch a guy put up 20 & 10 on losing teams like Love & Lee. There is value to in putting up those numbers but they get in the way of playing elite team ball. You win with 2-way players for the most part. No weak links

Its not Towns, its OK4. He' already an excellent rebounder with monster hands that let him control the ball in traffic. OK4 blocks a lot of shots and alters a ton more. He's actually longer than Towns, and there is zero reason to think OK4 cant become an excellent defensive player.

Again.. you defend Town's pedestrian stats with the role he plays and the team he's on. Why doesnt OK4 get the same? If OK4 picks up the same kind of fouls Towns does Duke has no chance to win, so he doesnt engage.

honest question

I believe it's easy to defend OK4 as the pick, due to his college production.....It's hard to defend Towns because of his lack of college production. Some people use stats to measure success. Others use the eye test, and how their system may hold back their skill set. Jordan said in an interview, when he went to the NBA, it was like letting a bird out of the cage. He was able to open his wings and fly. Jordans game was better fit for the NBA. There was no stats that predict this, when he was in college. But if you look at the old tape, the eye test will tell you this guy is special....The stats will say, he's not producing like James Worthy or whoever else was drafted in front of him. He was doing the same dunks he did in the NBA, just at a smaller sample size. Jordan and everybody else didn't know how the NBA would fit his game, until he actually played his first NBA game.

I think this is a great discussion to have, but keep in mind. We are splitting hairs and for the most part, OK4 fans and Towns fans are not going to budge. Both will be star players and both will impact their team. It's a win win for anybody with the #1 or #2 pick. As a two way player myself, I always have a soft spot for those types of players. Guys that see the game from offense only, will see OK4 as the next great post player. But what if both player predictions are right? What if both players meet their potential? I still like Towns and Melo playing together than OK4 and Melo. Now if we didn't have Melo on the team, it would be a harder decision for me. OK4 is a great player to build around, when you have a blank sheet of paper like Philly. We already have Melo and a Triangle system. So we have to find the players that fit into what we have. Otherwise, we just wasted another 5 yrs of nothing, with mis match parts and barely making the playoffs. We've been down that road before.

In summary, it's a win....win for both OK4 and Towns fans. Now picking Russell or Mudiay over these guys is another discussion!

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I think MONROE and OK4 are very similar. Ok4 more polished offensively at 19 than Monroe was. But We've already seen Monroe produce in the NBA. Both guys are subpar defenders and really don't block shots. You just have to hope they become adequate. In Monroe's case maybe getting out of Drummond's shadow and in a new system will help him defensively.

Minimally both guys rebound a ton and score inside which is valuable next to a center who protects the rim and spaces the floor

hey Guns.. if OK4 is "subpar" defender can I call Towns a subpar scorer and rebounder?

Not really but you can if you want lol

I can't deny there is more known than unknown with OK4 so I totally get the people who rather play it safe and draft him. I just have my reasons for wanting Towns. I rather came on the guy who can impact the game even when he is not scoring than watch a guy put up 20 & 10 on losing teams like Love & Lee. There is value to in putting up those numbers but they get in the way of playing elite team ball. You win with 2-way players for the most part. No weak links

Its not Towns, its OK4. He' already an excellent rebounder with monster hands that let him control the ball in traffic. OK4 blocks a lot of shots and alters a ton more. He's actually longer than Towns, and there is zero reason to think OK4 cant become an excellent defensive player.

Again.. you defend Town's pedestrian stats with the role he plays and the team he's on. Why doesnt OK4 get the same? If OK4 picks up the same kind of fouls Towns does Duke has no chance to win, so he doesnt engage.

honest question

Yea the question of whether OK4 will be allowed to defend more freely in the NBA is a good question that can't be answered right now. We can only go by what we see right now.

I guess the problem is OK4 is not defending at all. Not even showing glimpses of being able to defend NBA bigs. You would see good defense in spurts. Not every game is so close that OK4 has to preserve his fouls. There are times throughout the year he could let loose. He just doesn't seem to have the motor for it. Like Monroe which is fine I love Monroe but we will see.

And good points again Blkexec