Knicksfan wrote:Is there a fanbase more difficult to please? For the first time in what seems to be forever, we are actually one of the best teams in the NBA, a clear title contender, with most guys healthy for the first time and are in position to do great things. And yet we want to bring any negativity available to argue about it?

I wasn't much of a Melo fan before this season. Yeah, he is a Knick, but the way he got here and the Linsanity fiasco left me ambivalent. That is, until he started backing up his pre-season words with definitive action. He really carried this team on his back during many troubles with injuries. Not only that, he did make a great effort in making those around him better, that with assists, hockey assists, rebounds and good defense. He has, probably for the first time in his life, become a true leader in the eyes of his teammates. You can sense that it isn't them praising the star player but actually believing this guy can lead them to greatness.

Now we have a healthy and beasting Stoudemire along with most guys healthy and judging by the last two games, we could be coming back to our 6-0 shape we started with, only with a healthier group. Melo is a big part of this success, but what is amazing about this season's team is that it finally resembles a solid all-around team. Where we would be without Chandler's defense, rebounding and sometimes automatic offense? Without great 6th man J.R. Smith? Without the PG play of Felton? Without the leadership of Kidd? Without the now beasting Amar'e? Novack may be heating up again. Shump is just getting ready. Camby has yet to fully contribute and Sheed proved he has much left in the tank and will help A LOT once he comes back.

We finally have a solid, deep TEAM! This team is starving for a title and know that with everybody playing their roles, they have a solid chance. But it not about one specific player, its about them all. They are a force as a TEAM.

love this post^^^^^

Knicksfan wrote:Is there a fanbase more difficult to please? For the first time in what seems to be forever, we are actually one of the best teams in the NBA, a clear title contender, with most guys healthy for the first time and are in position to do great things. And yet we want to bring any negativity available to argue about it?

I wasn't much of a Melo fan before this season. Yeah, he is a Knick, but the way he got here and the Linsanity fiasco left me ambivalent. That is, until he started backing up his pre-season words with definitive action. He really carried this team on his back during many troubles with injuries. Not only that, he did make a great effort in making those around him better, that with assists, hockey assists, rebounds and good defense. He has, probably for the first time in his life, become a true leader in the eyes of his teammates. You can sense that it isn't them praising the star player but actually believing this guy can lead them to greatness.

Now we have a healthy and beasting Stoudemire along with most guys healthy and judging by the last two games, we could be coming back to our 6-0 shape we started with, only with a healthier group. Melo is a big part of this success, but what is amazing about this season's team is that it finally resembles a solid all-around team. Where we would be without Chandler's defense, rebounding and sometimes automatic offense? Without great 6th man J.R. Smith? Without the PG play of Felton? Without the leadership of Kidd? Without the now beasting Amar'e? Novack may be heating up again. Shump is just getting ready. Camby has yet to fully contribute and Sheed proved he has much left in the tank and will help A LOT once he comes back.

We finally have a solid, deep TEAM! This team is starving for a title and know that with everybody playing their roles, they have a solid chance. But it not about one specific player, its about them all. They are a force as a TEAM.

DurzoBlint wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Is there a fanbase more difficult to please? For the first time in what seems to be forever, we are actually one of the best teams in the NBA, a clear title contender, with most guys healthy for the first time and are in position to do great things. And yet we want to bring any negativity available to argue about it?

I wasn't much of a Melo fan before this season. Yeah, he is a Knick, but the way he got here and the Linsanity fiasco left me ambivalent. That is, until he started backing up his pre-season words with definitive action. He really carried this team on his back during many troubles with injuries. Not only that, he did make a great effort in making those around him better, that with assists, hockey assists, rebounds and good defense. He has, probably for the first time in his life, become a true leader in the eyes of his teammates. You can sense that it isn't them praising the star player but actually believing this guy can lead them to greatness.

Now we have a healthy and beasting Stoudemire along with most guys healthy and judging by the last two games, we could be coming back to our 6-0 shape we started with, only with a healthier group. Melo is a big part of this success, but what is amazing about this season's team is that it finally resembles a solid all-around team. Where we would be without Chandler's defense, rebounding and sometimes automatic offense? Without great 6th man J.R. Smith? Without the PG play of Felton? Without the leadership of Kidd? Without the now beasting Amar'e? Novack may be heating up again. Shump is just getting ready. Camby has yet to fully contribute and Sheed proved he has much left in the tank and will help A LOT once he comes back.

We finally have a solid, deep TEAM! This team is starving for a title and know that with everybody playing their roles, they have a solid chance. But it not about one specific player, its about them all. They are a force as a TEAM.

love this post^^^^^

Knicksfan wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Is there a fanbase more difficult to please? For the first time in what seems to be forever, we are actually one of the best teams in the NBA, a clear title contender, with most guys healthy for the first time and are in position to do great things. And yet we want to bring any negativity available to argue about it?

I wasn't much of a Melo fan before this season. Yeah, he is a Knick, but the way he got here and the Linsanity fiasco left me ambivalent. That is, until he started backing up his pre-season words with definitive action. He really carried this team on his back during many troubles with injuries. Not only that, he did make a great effort in making those around him better, that with assists, hockey assists, rebounds and good defense. He has, probably for the first time in his life, become a true leader in the eyes of his teammates. You can sense that it isn't them praising the star player but actually believing this guy can lead them to greatness.

Now we have a healthy and beasting Stoudemire along with most guys healthy and judging by the last two games, we could be coming back to our 6-0 shape we started with, only with a healthier group. Melo is a big part of this success, but what is amazing about this season's team is that it finally resembles a solid all-around team. Where we would be without Chandler's defense, rebounding and sometimes automatic offense? Without great 6th man J.R. Smith? Without the PG play of Felton? Without the leadership of Kidd? Without the now beasting Amar'e? Novack may be heating up again. Shump is just getting ready. Camby has yet to fully contribute and Sheed proved he has much left in the tank and will help A LOT once he comes back.

We finally have a solid, deep TEAM! This team is starving for a title and know that with everybody playing their roles, they have a solid chance. But it not about one specific player, its about them all. They are a force as a TEAM.

Look how much money fans spent on the team when it was a .400 team. The team is .650 and people are ecstatic. Is there a fan base that's easier to please? These fans certainly are very gentle compared to the fans of the Knicks in the 90s.

So the amount of money a fan base spends on a team means they are pleased with the team? I followed this team through the purgatory of the '00s, as most of you, and at least I can say I wasn't close to pleased with the team. When you are a fan, you are through thick and thin, but doesn't mean the stormy days were pleasing at all.

Well tonight, we're going for a record of 28-11 during games in which Melo has played.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:^^^^Because Knicks have the GREATEST fanbase in sports. How many teams suck for years but, still manage to sell out every game. That's why I don't get the Debbie Downers flaming many threads. If you supported when we sucked ass for years, why in the world would you be disillusioned NOW of all times. Seemed quite bi-polar to me

simple: some fans were willing to wade through 2 years of roster flush and genuine re-building according to a plan. many feel that the plan was sabotaged, betraying that two years of patience. though made more complicated by the lockout, the plan could have been adhered to.

so people who believe that the plan was worth scrapping will feel strongly that the team is moving in the right direction, while those who feel it was not worth scrapping feel the team is not moving in the right direction.

I am not sure what part of the plan was scraped. My understanding of the plan was that it involved clearing enough cap space so that the Knicks could sign two stars. That was why Houston got Jordan Hill and the Knicks first round pick last year. That is why David Lee is a Warrior. The Knicks were trying all year to get Melo in the 10-11 season and they had the cap space to sign him to an extension based on their moves. When you say the plan was scraped is that based on your theory that Denver wouldn't move Melo, opting to lose him to free agency for nothing and that Melo would wait until after the owners locked out the players, where owners were saying they were going to reign in free agency with the new cba, and take 25 million less to play in NY on your terms? Please clarify if this is your position because I have asked this before and you haven't responded.

how did we NOT rebuild. The roster has been completely overhauled. We have Vets surrounded by young talent with 2 (next year potentially 3) Allstars on the roster. Not sure what else they could possibly want.

Maybe they wanted us to spend 4-5years sucking ass and rebuilding through the draft. New York fans would have lost their collective minds with so many years of sucking and hoping for the best.

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:^^^^Because Knicks have the GREATEST fanbase in sports. How many teams suck for years but, still manage to sell out every game. That's why I don't get the Debbie Downers flaming many threads. If you supported when we sucked ass for years, why in the world would you be disillusioned NOW of all times. Seemed quite bi-polar to me

simple: some fans were willing to wade through 2 years of roster flush and genuine re-building according to a plan. many feel that the plan was sabotaged, betraying that two years of patience. though made more complicated by the lockout, the plan could have been adhered to.

so people who believe that the plan was worth scrapping will feel strongly that the team is moving in the right direction, while those who feel it was not worth scrapping feel the team is not moving in the right direction.

It appears to me that the plan worked perfectly well.

Anji wrote:Fandom can't be computed, don't expect the robots to understand the emotions that go into following a team.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:^^^^Because Knicks have the GREATEST fanbase in sports. How many teams suck for years but, still manage to sell out every game. That's why I don't get the Debbie Downers flaming many threads. If you supported when we sucked ass for years, why in the world would you be disillusioned NOW of all times. Seemed quite bi-polar to me

simple: some fans were willing to wade through 2 years of roster flush and genuine re-building according to a plan. many feel that the plan was sabotaged, betraying that two years of patience. though made more complicated by the lockout, the plan could have been adhered to.

so people who believe that the plan was worth scrapping will feel strongly that the team is moving in the right direction, while those who feel it was not worth scrapping feel the team is not moving in the right direction.

I am not sure what part of the plan was scraped. My understanding of the plan was that it involved clearing enough cap space so that the Knicks could sign two stars. That was why Houston got Jordan Hill and the Knicks first round pick last year. That is why David Lee is a Warrior. The Knicks were trying all year to get Melo in the 10-11 season and they had the cap space to sign him to an extension based on their moves. When you say the plan was scraped is that based on your theory that Denver wouldn't move Melo, opting to lose him to free agency for nothing and that Melo would wait until after the owners locked out the players, where owners were saying they were going to reign in free agency with the new cba, and take 25 million less to play in NY on your terms? Please clarify if this is your position because I have asked this before and you haven't responded.

any two stars will do... right? wrong. but if you believe in acquiring talent for its own sake then any trade will do. trouble is that is not a formula for building a team.

when walsh was the gm he stated that players are good at one price and not good at another. he was not willing to give up all the players we eventually gave up which is why he was shoved aside by dolan who then gave denver all those players and more.

don't get me wrong melo is a good player. he would have been a great acquisition through free agency. not an ideal free agent since neither he nor stoudemire are franchise-level talents and it was very clear to me and others that there was way too much overlap to their games. but at least we acquired stat for cash only once we s and t'd lee. lee is turning out to be a pretty damned good player.

almost every team needs two all-star starters if they are going to make a good run. but almost every team that is successful has two all-stars who fit together well and that was not the case with melo coming over to the knicks.

the plan as i understood it was to acquire picks through the draft, develop those picks while constantly looking to upgrade at positions of need. we had stat who is a hybrid small forward power forward. power forward when he is a finisher, small forward when he developed his midrange shot.

and we already had both chandler and gallinari. we were fine at the small forward/power forward position.

now felton was offered two years by walsh at a very low salary-- why? connect the dots: he was going to upgrade at the point guard position at the first opportunity if for no other reason that we had the best finisher in the game in stoudemire. build on what you have and avoid redundancy.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:^^^^Because Knicks have the GREATEST fanbase in sports. How many teams suck for years but, still manage to sell out every game. That's why I don't get the Debbie Downers flaming many threads. If you supported when we sucked ass for years, why in the world would you be disillusioned NOW of all times. Seemed quite bi-polar to me

simple: some fans were willing to wade through 2 years of roster flush and genuine re-building according to a plan. many feel that the plan was sabotaged, betraying that two years of patience. though made more complicated by the lockout, the plan could have been adhered to.

so people who believe that the plan was worth scrapping will feel strongly that the team is moving in the right direction, while those who feel it was not worth scrapping feel the team is not moving in the right direction.

I am not sure what part of the plan was scraped. My understanding of the plan was that it involved clearing enough cap space so that the Knicks could sign two stars. That was why Houston got Jordan Hill and the Knicks first round pick last year. That is why David Lee is a Warrior. The Knicks were trying all year to get Melo in the 10-11 season and they had the cap space to sign him to an extension based on their moves. When you say the plan was scraped is that based on your theory that Denver wouldn't move Melo, opting to lose him to free agency for nothing and that Melo would wait until after the owners locked out the players, where owners were saying they were going to reign in free agency with the new cba, and take 25 million less to play in NY on your terms? Please clarify if this is your position because I have asked this before and you haven't responded.

any two stars will do... right? wrong. but if you believe in acquiring talent for its own sake then any trade will do. trouble is that is not a formula for building a team.

when walsh was the gm he stated that players are good at one price and not good at another. he was not willing to give up all the players we eventually gave up which is why he was shoved aside by dolan who then gave denver all those players and more.

don't get me wrong melo is a good player. he would have been a great acquisition through free agency. not an ideal free agent since neither he nor stoudemire are franchise-level talents and it was very clear to me and others that there was way too much overlap to their games. but at least we acquired stat for cash only once we s and t'd lee. lee is turning out to be a pretty damned good player.

almost every team needs two all-star starters if they are going to make a good run. but almost every team that is successful has two all-stars who fit together well and that was not the case with melo coming over to the knicks.

the plan as i understood it was to acquire picks through the draft, develop those picks while constantly looking to upgrade at positions of need. we had stat who is a hybrid small forward power forward. power forward when he is a finisher, small forward when he developed his midrange shot.

and we already had both chandler and gallinari. we were fine at the small forward/power forward position.

now felton was offered two years by walsh at a very low salary-- why? connect the dots: he was going to upgrade at the point guard position at the first opportunity if for no other reason that we had the best finisher in the game in stoudemire. build on what you have and avoid redundancy.

Walsh's plan was to get LBJ and another star and he failed. He had to scramble to get something for all that he gave up to get the cap space he created. Maybe Walsh promised Dolan and/or Dantoni two stars but he never stopped pursuing a second star after he struck out in free agency. I disagree about there being a plan to acquire picks and develop players. The Knicks were not playing or developing their picks in the 09-10 season and used their lottery pick and another pick to create more cap space that season in the Jeffries trade. In regards to the actual Melo trade, reports were that when Denver asked for Moz, Walsh felt it was too much. I can't imagine anyone with the luxury of hindsight would hold up a Melo trade to NY because Moz was included. Also, I asked you to respond to my question in regarding Denver and the Nuggets. Is it your contention that the Nuggets would have held onto Melo at the trade deadline to let him sign with the Knicks while getting nothing for him? Is it your contention that Melo should have ignored the owners threats of an impending lockout that was going to change free agency and that he should have stayed in Denver and signed for 25 mil less in NY so that the Knicks could keep Gallo, Chandler and Moz? Way too many variables to ever think that would actually happen. I also think you would be severely underestimating the guys in Denver's front office as well as Melo himself if you thought they were going to stay put in that economic climate.

Absolutely right.

There was no rebuilding\developing youth plan through the draft like dk is suggesting.

Walsh said several times he was going for 2 stars no matter what. That was plan A, B, C, and D.

Walsh botched Lebron, and the rest is history. Settled for Amare and had to fill the roster with pieces with all that cap room. That whole time, Walsh was still eyeing that 2nd star, and when the Melo trade rumors arose, he initiated it, and Dolan took over negotiations with Denver once Walsh started having cold feet at the trade price.