Here's a link to a Lakers forum:

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=785548

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:I get it now, if somehow MDA demonstrates further alienation tendancies with another player,
then Melo is obsolved of his sins!

Wow!

what exactly doe Homers stand to gain from this? IS melo up for sainthood? Vetting for a seat on the Supreme court?

You guys are that desporate for a hero?

it is absolutely amazing.... i have never seen a fan base root for the failure of 5 players and a coach to validate and hero worship one guy..... I thought if you like someone, you like them and didn't need others to fail to justify why you like them....

This thread isn't about rooting for players to fail or giving anyone praise.

At the same time you seem quick to create a scapegoat for a teams failures, but get upset when they recieve praise.

no, just annoyed at undue praise and people trying to force feed me greatness that isn't there...

Its an atmosphere that you helped create with over the top bias. You have no problem force feeding blame all onto one person when the team loses, but when they win you want to claim team and spread the praise around. Mean while you create standards for Denver, Lin, MDA by knocking the Knicks in order to propel them but get upset when they are criticised for not reaching those standards and cry foul. The only thing that annoys you is your desire to be right.

your criticism is unfair. carmelo anthony has underachieved most of his career. not playing great defense and not being a playmaker will do that to a player and his teams. add to this that he has been an inefficient scorer-- what dunderheads call euphemistically a "volume shooter"-- and the first place you look is carmelo.

now is he more efficient thus far into the season. the answer is yes, in fact it is borderline good, 57.5TS. but his usage relative to his assist rate is an abomination. 34.7 to 11.3. yuuuuck. and his 3-point shooting percentage will certainly go down, dragging his efficiency down with it to his career level of absolute mediocrity: 53-55%. this hurts his team.

so the reason for the criticism is that carmelo anthony basically plays basketball in a kind of vacuum the vast majority of the time. win or lose, he is going to accumulate points, mostly inefficiently, while not making others better on either end of the floor.

The criticism is fair of Melo's game. But at the same time the guy has won 591% of his games in Denver and made the playoffs every yr of his career and is on pace to having a great season in NY. If he was as bad as you claim he doesn't achieve that. He also has went to the WCF which tells me that these issues you have against him can be worked with. You guys act as if he is a some mediocre career loser.

IMO I think a lot of those issues can be worked out with personel and coaching, Example Woodson is a defensive first coach the first that Melo has played with in his NBA career. Is it a suprise to you that he now is playing the most defense effort he has played with since Woodson took over. The key with his usage, playmaking ability, and shot selection is that he is cappable. It comes down to him trusting his teammates. He has played some of the best basketball of his career with Billups and Kidd, I don't think that is a conicidence. But his ability to produce, his clutch gene(minus this season) and versatility isn't something that grows on trees.

To be fair, Denver's and our winning %s in games he's missed has been around .550 (Denver) and higher for us too. No one's saying he's a loser but I would classify him only as a "good" player not a "great" one. I know calling him "good" is not strong enough praise for many though and I'll probably be called a hater.

I don't think you can judge based on random games like that. In your opinion does Denver or the Knicks make the playoffs if he misses a full season with the same rosters?

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:I get it now, if somehow MDA demonstrates further alienation tendancies with another player,
then Melo is obsolved of his sins!

Wow!

what exactly doe Homers stand to gain from this? IS melo up for sainthood? Vetting for a seat on the Supreme court?

You guys are that desporate for a hero?

it is absolutely amazing.... i have never seen a fan base root for the failure of 5 players and a coach to validate and hero worship one guy..... I thought if you like someone, you like them and didn't need others to fail to justify why you like them....

This thread isn't about rooting for players to fail or giving anyone praise.

At the same time you seem quick to create a scapegoat for a teams failures, but get upset when they recieve praise.

no, just annoyed at undue praise and people trying to force feed me greatness that isn't there...

Its an atmosphere that you helped create with over the top bias. You have no problem force feeding blame all onto one person when the team loses, but when they win you want to claim team and spread the praise around. Mean while you create standards for Denver, Lin, MDA by knocking the Knicks in order to propel them but get upset when they are criticised for not reaching those standards and cry foul. The only thing that annoys you is your desire to be right.

your criticism is unfair. carmelo anthony has underachieved most of his career. not playing great defense and not being a playmaker will do that to a player and his teams. add to this that he has been an inefficient scorer-- what dunderheads call euphemistically a "volume shooter"-- and the first place you look is carmelo.

now is he more efficient thus far into the season. the answer is yes, in fact it is borderline good, 57.5TS. but his usage relative to his assist rate is an abomination. 34.7 to 11.3. yuuuuck. and his 3-point shooting percentage will certainly go down, dragging his efficiency down with it to his career level of absolute mediocrity: 53-55%. this hurts his team.

so the reason for the criticism is that carmelo anthony basically plays basketball in a kind of vacuum the vast majority of the time. win or lose, he is going to accumulate points, mostly inefficiently, while not making others better on either end of the floor.

The criticism is fair of Melo's game. But at the same time the guy has won 591% of his games in Denver and made the playoffs every yr of his career and is on pace to having a great season in NY. If he was as bad as you claim he doesn't achieve that. He also has went to the WCF which tells me that these issues you have against him can be worked with. You guys act as if he is a some mediocre career loser.

IMO I think a lot of those issues can be worked out with personel and coaching, Example Woodson is a defensive first coach the first that Melo has played with in his NBA career. Is it a suprise to you that he now is playing the most defense effort he has played with since Woodson took over. The key with his usage, playmaking ability, and shot selection is that he is cappable. It comes down to him trusting his teammates. He has played some of the best basketball of his career with Billups and Kidd, I don't think that is a conicidence. But his ability to produce, his clutch gene(minus this season) and versatility isn't something that grows on trees.

To be fair, Denver's and our winning %s in games he's missed has been around .550 (Denver) and higher for us too. No one's saying he's a loser but I would classify him only as a "good" player not a "great" one. I know calling him "good" is not strong enough praise for many though and I'll probably be called a hater.

Depends what your definition of great is. Is great MJ, LeNron, Magic, Kobe? If so, Carmelo is not great. But Carmelo is easily in the class of guys like Durant. My CURRENT top 5 is:

LeBron
Kobe
Durant
Melo
Westbrook

But they're not.

Excuses and posts don't matter. Only wins do.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:I get it now, if somehow MDA demonstrates further alienation tendancies with another player,
then Melo is obsolved of his sins!

Wow!

what exactly doe Homers stand to gain from this? IS melo up for sainthood? Vetting for a seat on the Supreme court?

You guys are that desporate for a hero?

it is absolutely amazing.... i have never seen a fan base root for the failure of 5 players and a coach to validate and hero worship one guy..... I thought if you like someone, you like them and didn't need others to fail to justify why you like them....

This thread isn't about rooting for players to fail or giving anyone praise.

At the same time you seem quick to create a scapegoat for a teams failures, but get upset when they recieve praise.

no, just annoyed at undue praise and people trying to force feed me greatness that isn't there...

Its an atmosphere that you helped create with over the top bias. You have no problem force feeding blame all onto one person when the team loses, but when they win you want to claim team and spread the praise around. Mean while you create standards for Denver, Lin, MDA by knocking the Knicks in order to propel them but get upset when they are criticised for not reaching those standards and cry foul. The only thing that annoys you is your desire to be right.

your criticism is unfair. carmelo anthony has underachieved most of his career. not playing great defense and not being a playmaker will do that to a player and his teams. add to this that he has been an inefficient scorer-- what dunderheads call euphemistically a "volume shooter"-- and the first place you look is carmelo.

now is he more efficient thus far into the season. the answer is yes, in fact it is borderline good, 57.5TS. but his usage relative to his assist rate is an abomination. 34.7 to 11.3. yuuuuck. and his 3-point shooting percentage will certainly go down, dragging his efficiency down with it to his career level of absolute mediocrity: 53-55%. this hurts his team.

so the reason for the criticism is that carmelo anthony basically plays basketball in a kind of vacuum the vast majority of the time. win or lose, he is going to accumulate points, mostly inefficiently, while not making others better on either end of the floor.

Yeah, I don't think Melo's become a more efficient scorer. Once his 3 point % regresses towards his career average, his TS% will too.

You do know that players have seasons which exeed or fall below there career averages all the time right? A player has a yr which he shoots 50% from the field then has another yr which he shoots 40% from the field. Though he is at 45% at career average he wasn't a 45 % shooter the first season or a 45% shooter his 2nd season.

Career average deosn't tell the story from season to season. Felton shot 38% from 3 for 80games his last season in Charlotte his career average before that was like 30%.

MSG3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:I get it now, if somehow MDA demonstrates further alienation tendancies with another player,
then Melo is obsolved of his sins!

Wow!

what exactly doe Homers stand to gain from this? IS melo up for sainthood? Vetting for a seat on the Supreme court?

You guys are that desporate for a hero?

it is absolutely amazing.... i have never seen a fan base root for the failure of 5 players and a coach to validate and hero worship one guy..... I thought if you like someone, you like them and didn't need others to fail to justify why you like them....

This thread isn't about rooting for players to fail or giving anyone praise.

At the same time you seem quick to create a scapegoat for a teams failures, but get upset when they recieve praise.

no, just annoyed at undue praise and people trying to force feed me greatness that isn't there...

Its an atmosphere that you helped create with over the top bias. You have no problem force feeding blame all onto one person when the team loses, but when they win you want to claim team and spread the praise around. Mean while you create standards for Denver, Lin, MDA by knocking the Knicks in order to propel them but get upset when they are criticised for not reaching those standards and cry foul. The only thing that annoys you is your desire to be right.

your criticism is unfair. carmelo anthony has underachieved most of his career. not playing great defense and not being a playmaker will do that to a player and his teams. add to this that he has been an inefficient scorer-- what dunderheads call euphemistically a "volume shooter"-- and the first place you look is carmelo.

now is he more efficient thus far into the season. the answer is yes, in fact it is borderline good, 57.5TS. but his usage relative to his assist rate is an abomination. 34.7 to 11.3. yuuuuck. and his 3-point shooting percentage will certainly go down, dragging his efficiency down with it to his career level of absolute mediocrity: 53-55%. this hurts his team.

so the reason for the criticism is that carmelo anthony basically plays basketball in a kind of vacuum the vast majority of the time. win or lose, he is going to accumulate points, mostly inefficiently, while not making others better on either end of the floor.

The criticism is fair of Melo's game. But at the same time the guy has won 591% of his games in Denver and made the playoffs every yr of his career and is on pace to having a great season in NY. If he was as bad as you claim he doesn't achieve that. He also has went to the WCF which tells me that these issues you have against him can be worked with. You guys act as if he is a some mediocre career loser.

IMO I think a lot of those issues can be worked out with personel and coaching, Example Woodson is a defensive first coach the first that Melo has played with in his NBA career. Is it a suprise to you that he now is playing the most defense effort he has played with since Woodson took over. The key with his usage, playmaking ability, and shot selection is that he is cappable. It comes down to him trusting his teammates. He has played some of the best basketball of his career with Billups and Kidd, I don't think that is a conicidence. But his ability to produce, his clutch gene(minus this season) and versatility isn't something that grows on trees.

To be fair, Denver's and our winning %s in games he's missed has been around .550 (Denver) and higher for us too. No one's saying he's a loser but I would classify him only as a "good" player not a "great" one. I know calling him "good" is not strong enough praise for many though and I'll probably be called a hater.

Depends what your definition of great is. Is great MJ, LeNron, Magic, Kobe? If so, Carmelo is not great. But Carmelo is easily in the class of guys like Durant. My CURRENT top 5 is:

LeBron
Kobe
Durant
Melo
Westbrook

not sure westbrook should be in that class, but i guarantee you if lebron or Durant was a knick you guys would be fuming if someone were to suggest that carmelo is in their class... and he just isn't....

jrodmc wrote:Kobe is now playing with a new, more stupid Shaq on steroids. This will end uglier than that the last marriage. Less than 20 games into the season and DivaHow is already talking about moving on. How's a classless clown, but Kobe must truly be an A-grade ahole teammate.

Bye bye Nash. Bye bye Blake. Buh bye Pringles.

In other, non-topic related news:
The Nets cant quite hang with the Big Dogs Yet.

why didn't D'antoni try to depose Avery? You've got Deron, an offensive first&last big man, Hump and Evans would have to go, but other than that, what's not to SSOL with that team?

I said it a million times.. howard is a bozo, from the same school of bozo that carmelo came from..

Kobe is a jackass but he is a winner and committed to winning like no other player... Jordan was an A-hole, but I will take him as a teamate because his only goal was to win... kobe has that same DNA...

nets can't beat OKC, but who can't.. we could not beat memphis.. we may not be ready to hang with the big dogs yet either if that is your criteria..

jrodmc wrote:why didn't D'antoni try to depose Avery? You've got Deron, an offensive first&last big man, Hump and Evans would have to go, but other than that, what's not to SSOL with that team?

Great point. Brooklyn roster is definitely an MDA roster. Rockets is another MDA type roster. Lakers need to clear the roster and get MDA some horses to run with.

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:It would make sense to trash Carmelo if Denver, Houston, and Mike D'antoni were having more success.

But they're not.

Excuses and posts don't matter. Only wins do.

that is ridiculous..you don't criticize a player based on someone else success or failure.. what sense does that make?

I don't understand that either. What does Denver, Houston or MDA have to do with Melo. You criticize the deal then let it go. Melo's performance should only be judged with his performance. Right now, Melo is having a very good season. I know that bully ball sometimes surfaces but the only thing I can say is baby steps. He is doing more good than bad right now.

NYKBocker wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:It would make sense to trash Carmelo if Denver, Houston, and Mike D'antoni were having more success.

But they're not.

Excuses and posts don't matter. Only wins do.

that is ridiculous..you don't criticize a player based on someone else success or failure.. what sense does that make?

I don't understand that either. What does Denver, Houston or MDA have to do with Melo. You criticize the deal then let it go. Melo's performance should only be judged with his performance. Right now, Melo is having a very good season. I know that bully ball sometimes surfaces but the only thing I can say is baby steps. He is doing more good than bad right now.

the need to validate carmelo has really gone over the top.... I don't get the mentality, if someone is playing good or bad, it shouldn't matter what another player or coach for that matter is doing elsewhere... If carmelo has a good season and dantoni takes the lakers to the finals, and gallo and lin both are allstars.. does that mean that carmelo didn't have a good season? I don't get it... and it can go the other way.. if those guys had a horrible season and carmelo tanked the season as well does that mean we should not criticize him? just a warped sense of thinking with some posters..