fishmike wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:I'm very late to this discussion but you all are sadly mistaken if you believe that we "don't need...carmelo." For all his shortcomings as a human being, the guy is one of the premier ball players in the league. We should thank our stars that he is actually interested in our team because his addition would propel us into the upper-echelon of the Eastern Conference. I'm not talking about being 5th but being elite; an equal to the Magic's and Heat's of the world, with the ability to give the Celtics/Lakers a run for their money. Here's why...

If you were to carefully examine the playoff series of the past decade, you'd come to realize that the team that wields 2 of the top 3 best performers in the series, generally wins. Since the championship is the mark of the most successful team in the playoffs, I'll only review players from the two teams in Finals to prove my point:

2010: Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Rajon Rondo; Lakers WIN
2009: Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard; Lakers WIN
2008: Kobe Bryant, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett; Celtics WIN
2007: LeBron James, Tony Parker, Tim Duncan; Spurs WIN
2006: Dwayne Wade, Dirk Nowitzki, Shaquille O'neal; Heat WIN
2005: Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobli, Chauncey Billups; Spurs WIN
2004: Chauncey Billups, Kobe Bryant, Ben Wallace; Pistons WIN
2003: Tim Duncan, Jason Kidd, Stephen Jackson/David Robinson; Spurs WIN
2002: Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'neal, Jason Kidd; Lakers WIN
2001: Shaquille O'neal, Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant; Lakers WIN
2000: Shaquille O'neal, Kobe Bryant, Reggie Miller; Lakers WIN

....With Carmelo Anthony (and Amar'e), we'd have a shot of fulfilling the 2/3 rule in most playoff series. Moreover, Melo would give us our only player capable of scoring at will during scoring droughts, as well as clutch play in the 4th; a necessity for elite teams( see Kobe Bryant with the Lakers and Paul Pierce with the Celtics). Needless to say, we need this dude and fortunately, won't have to sell the farm to get him....

As much as Melo is regarded as a top 5 talent, we have the opportunity to get him for cents on the dollar. Why? Because it is quite evident that he no longer wants to be a Denver Nugget and intends on signing with the Knicks. This in turn makes other teams reluctant to pony up assets to acquire him and allows the Knicks to low-ball the Nuggets. Time is in the Knicks' favor at this point and once we approach the deadline and after the Nuggets have exhausted a options, I expect to see both teams consummate a deal that will allow the Nuggets to get some value in the trade. There is no way that they allow themselves to get burned like the Cavs and Raptors did this offseason, especially with Masai Ujiri having been apart of the Raptors organization when Bosh left.

A deal moving Anthony Randolph to the Pacers for an unprotected 1st round pick in 2011; in addition to that pick, Eddy Curry (the Knicks already paid $5.1 million of his $11.2 million contract), Danilo Gallinari and $3 million should be more than enough. We may even get lucky and parlay Curry's expirer for Andre Igoudala or Tayshaun Prince (since both are available) and Gallo for Melo at an earlier date than the deadline. In short, the ball is ultimately in our court and we should definitely take advantage of it.

I'll bite... If Walsh can get Melo for the above (Gallo + AR) bring it. With Chandler playing great, Fields a stud, even Williams looking like a nice rotatio guy I can soften my stance on trading both AR/Gallo.

That being said your point above is a bit moot... Melo isnt as good as Kobe, Gasol, Wade, Dwight, KG, Duncan oe Shaq. He's just not that. I do agree that he brings tough scoring and when all else fails Melo on an iso is a good play.

If we could do that deal and we are looking at:
PG Felton
SG Fields
SF Melo
PF Amare
C Turiaf/Mosgov
with Chandler, Willams, Douglas off the bench going with those 9 you gotta feel pretty damn good. I'll bite.

I just dont buy for a minute we can get Melo for Gallo + Curry.

Also Denver would have to pay the Knicks for Curry's salary that we paid. We could kick in $3mm to counteract his trade kicker but there is little financial savings there.

Im not willing to give up Both Chandler and Gallo or worse more for one player who will make 25mm. I don't see Indiana giving us an unrestricted pick for Randolph--maybe at the start of the season--but not now. On top of it you want to flip the contract for another max wing player? (Why just so we said we did--we dont improve)?? To take a team that is building chemistry and slammer jammer players together and make a mess? How many times has Carmelo been in the finals with the good teams hes been on--hes a great player although he certainly has been lackluster so far this year. Im not saying that I would not take Melo--but not at the prices that have been suggested--i.e 2 #1 picks Chandlar Fields Gallo Randolph Curry--way way way too much. We havent even talked about addressing a bigger need--a second big who can score.
The benefit of acquiring melo this year would be the advantage of being able to retain chandler.

many factors have to be weighed in--and also the true fact that there is only 1 basketball on the court at one time. 0nce you make that move if you can--thats it thats the team.

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:I'm very late to this discussion but you all are sadly mistaken if you believe that we "don't need...carmelo." For all his shortcomings as a human being, the guy is one of the premier ball players in the league. We should thank our stars that he is actually interested in our team because his addition would propel us into the upper-echelon of the Eastern Conference. I'm not talking about being 5th but being elite; an equal to the Magic's and Heat's of the world, with the ability to give the Celtics/Lakers a run for their money. Here's why...

If you were to carefully examine the playoff series of the past decade, you'd come to realize that the team that wields 2 of the top 3 best performers in the series, generally wins. Since the championship is the mark of the most successful team in the playoffs, I'll only review players from the two teams in Finals to prove my point:

2010: Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Rajon Rondo; Lakers WIN
2009: Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard; Lakers WIN
2008: Kobe Bryant, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett; Celtics WIN
2007: LeBron James, Tony Parker, Tim Duncan; Spurs WIN
2006: Dwayne Wade, Dirk Nowitzki, Shaquille O'neal; Heat WIN
2005: Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobli, Chauncey Billups; Spurs WIN
2004: Chauncey Billups, Kobe Bryant, Ben Wallace; Pistons WIN
2003: Tim Duncan, Jason Kidd, Stephen Jackson/David Robinson; Spurs WIN
2002: Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'neal, Jason Kidd; Lakers WIN
2001: Shaquille O'neal, Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant; Lakers WIN
2000: Shaquille O'neal, Kobe Bryant, Reggie Miller; Lakers WIN

....With Carmelo Anthony (and Amar'e), we'd have a shot of fulfilling the 2/3 rule in most playoff series. Moreover, Melo would give us our only player capable of scoring at will during scoring droughts, as well as clutch play in the 4th; a necessity for elite teams( see Kobe Bryant with the Lakers and Paul Pierce with the Celtics). Needless to say, we need this dude and fortunately, won't have to sell the farm to get him....

As much as Melo is regarded as a top 5 talent, we have the opportunity to get him for cents on the dollar. Why? Because it is quite evident that he no longer wants to be a Denver Nugget and intends on signing with the Knicks. This in turn makes other teams reluctant to pony up assets to acquire him and allows the Knicks to low-ball the Nuggets. Time is in the Knicks' favor at this point and once we approach the deadline and after the Nuggets have exhausted a options, I expect to see both teams consummate a deal that will allow the Nuggets to get some value in the trade. There is no way that they allow themselves to get burned like the Cavs and Raptors did this offseason, especially with Masai Ujiri having been apart of the Raptors organization when Bosh left.

A deal moving Anthony Randolph to the Pacers for an unprotected 1st round pick in 2011; in addition to that pick, Eddy Curry (the Knicks already paid $5.1 million of his $11.2 million contract), Danilo Gallinari and $3 million should be more than enough. We may even get lucky and parlay Curry's expirer for Andre Igoudala or Tayshaun Prince (since both are available) and Gallo for Melo at an earlier date than the deadline. In short, the ball is ultimately in our court and we should definitely take advantage of it.

welcome, what took you so long to sign in?

lol, I guess because I couldn't find a screen name, lol.

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:I'm very late to this discussion but you all are sadly mistaken if you believe that we "don't need...carmelo." For all his shortcomings as a human being, the guy is one of the premier ball players in the league. We should thank our stars that he is actually interested in our team because his addition would propel us into the upper-echelon of the Eastern Conference. I'm not talking about being 5th but being elite; an equal to the Magic's and Heat's of the world, with the ability to give the Celtics/Lakers a run for their money. Here's why...

If you were to carefully examine the playoff series of the past decade, you'd come to realize that the team that wields 2 of the top 3 best performers in the series, generally wins. Since the championship is the mark of the most successful team in the playoffs, I'll only review players from the two teams in Finals to prove my point:

2010: Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Rajon Rondo; Lakers WIN
2009: Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard; Lakers WIN
2008: Kobe Bryant, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett; Celtics WIN
2007: LeBron James, Tony Parker, Tim Duncan; Spurs WIN
2006: Dwayne Wade, Dirk Nowitzki, Shaquille O'neal; Heat WIN
2005: Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobli, Chauncey Billups; Spurs WIN
2004: Chauncey Billups, Kobe Bryant, Ben Wallace; Pistons WIN
2003: Tim Duncan, Jason Kidd, Stephen Jackson/David Robinson; Spurs WIN
2002: Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'neal, Jason Kidd; Lakers WIN
2001: Shaquille O'neal, Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant; Lakers WIN
2000: Shaquille O'neal, Kobe Bryant, Reggie Miller; Lakers WIN

....With Carmelo Anthony (and Amar'e), we'd have a shot of fulfilling the 2/3 rule in most playoff series. Moreover, Melo would give us our only player capable of scoring at will during scoring droughts, as well as clutch play in the 4th; a necessity for elite teams( see Kobe Bryant with the Lakers and Paul Pierce with the Celtics). Needless to say, we need this dude and fortunately, won't have to sell the farm to get him....

As much as Melo is regarded as a top 5 talent, we have the opportunity to get him for cents on the dollar. Why? Because it is quite evident that he no longer wants to be a Denver Nugget and intends on signing with the Knicks. This in turn makes other teams reluctant to pony up assets to acquire him and allows the Knicks to low-ball the Nuggets. Time is in the Knicks' favor at this point and once we approach the deadline and after the Nuggets have exhausted a options, I expect to see both teams consummate a deal that will allow the Nuggets to get some value in the trade. There is no way that they allow themselves to get burned like the Cavs and Raptors did this offseason, especially with Masai Ujiri having been apart of the Raptors organization when Bosh left.

A deal moving Anthony Randolph to the Pacers for an unprotected 1st round pick in 2011; in addition to that pick, Eddy Curry (the Knicks already paid $5.1 million of his $11.2 million contract), Danilo Gallinari and $3 million should be more than enough. We may even get lucky and parlay Curry's expirer for Andre Igoudala or Tayshaun Prince (since both are available) and Gallo for Melo at an earlier date than the deadline. In short, the ball is ultimately in our court and we should definitely take advantage of it.

I'll bite... If Walsh can get Melo for the above (Gallo + AR) bring it. With Chandler playing great, Fields a stud, even Williams looking like a nice rotatio guy I can soften my stance on trading both AR/Gallo.

That being said your point above is a bit moot... Melo isnt as good as Kobe, Gasol, Wade, Dwight, KG, Duncan oe Shaq. He's just not that. I do agree that he brings tough scoring and when all else fails Melo on an iso is a good play.

If we could do that deal and we are looking at:
PG Felton
SG Fields
SF Melo
PF Amare
C Turiaf/Mosgov
with Chandler, Willams, Douglas off the bench going with those 9 you gotta feel pretty damn good. I'll bite.

I just dont buy for a minute we can get Melo for Gallo + Curry.

Also Denver would have to pay the Knicks for Curry's salary that we paid. We could kick in $3mm to counteract his trade kicker but there is little financial savings there.

Im not willing to give up Both Chandler and Gallo or worse more for one player who will make 25mm. I don't see Indiana giving us an unrestricted pick for Randolph--maybe at the start of the season--but not now. On top of it you want to flip the contract for another max wing player? (Why just so we said we did--we dont improve)?? To take a team that is building chemistry and slammer jammer players together and make a mess? How many times has Carmelo been in the finals with the good teams hes been on--hes a great player although he certainly has been lackluster so far this year. Im not saying that I would not take Melo--but not at the prices that have been suggested--i.e 2 #1 picks Chandlar Fields Gallo Randolph Curry--way way way too much. We havent even talked about addressing a bigger need--a second big who can score.
The benefit of acquiring melo this year would be the advantage of being able to retain chandler.

many factors have to be weighed in--and also the true fact that there is only 1 basketball on the court at one time. 0nce you make that move if you can--thats it thats the team.

Again, I don't believe we will need to give up Chandler and Gallo. The Nuggets have their back to the wall and must either gain whatever value they can or lose Melo for nothing in free agency. Neither option is appealing but walking away with Gallo, Curry and a 1st round pick is better than nothing.

I also feel like your "Finals" argument to discredit Melo's ability is fairly weak. How many Finals did Amar'e get to? Remember that he had the two-time MVP on his team, unlike Melo. Hell, the major clogs on the premier title contenders in the league (Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Ron Artest) never made it to the finals before playing for the Lakers and Celtics, respectively.

Melo is one of the best mid-range/post scorers in the league. He certainly is no 5 but he fits the need of a "2nd big who can score." In fact, his addition would create an excellent balance offensively on our team. He and Amar'e mesh well with one another and everyone else are role players that are better opportunistic scorers than creators for themselves and others.

for this we're supposed to commit a maximum salalry slot? and give up whom?

Melo2NYK wrote:

nixluva wrote:I think there's no way in the world you can put Melo on the level of Duncan. He's not D Wade either.

Why? I'll admit that after having thought it over, Melo being on par with Duncan is a bit of a stretch. Duncan was a much bigger game-changer defensively than Melo and his physical tools allowed him to be much more effective on the boards, while being an equally impressive offensive threat.

I don't buy your arguement for Dwayne Wade, who is very much the product of media hype. He's won a title as the best player on his team but that doesn't merit the status he as achieved necessarily. People tend to forget that immediately after that, they were knocked out of the first round and missed the playoffs entirely the following season. Wade puts up pretty numbers but it meant little in the way of wins for the Heat in a very weak Eastern Conference. You can use the "his teammates sucked," argument but Kobe Bryant got the Lakers a winning record and into the playoffs with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown as starters. They nearly beat the league leading Suns in the playoffs in 7 games.

I understand what you're saying, but I just believe Wade is an amazing player and i've seen him drag GARBAGE to the playoffs and he's practically unstoppable when he wants to be. Comparing Wade with Kobe isn't pertinent or fair, when trying to compare Wade vs. Melo.

Melo is a great scorer, but I just don't feel he's got the same ability to get more out of his team. It's just my opinion. Melo is basically a one man show and I don't think what he does makes his team better. He's just a souped up version of Al Harrington or any other guy that can score in bunches. You get no D, No real passing, but you get a lot of ISO stuff with a lot of wasted possessions. Melo is a very inefficient scorer for a superstar.

nixluva wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

nixluva wrote:I think there's no way in the world you can put Melo on the level of Duncan. He's not D Wade either.

Why? I'll admit that after having thought it over, Melo being on par with Duncan is a bit of a stretch. Duncan was a much bigger game-changer defensively than Melo and his physical tools allowed him to be much more effective on the boards, while being an equally impressive offensive threat.

I don't buy your arguement for Dwayne Wade, who is very much the product of media hype. He's won a title as the best player on his team but that doesn't merit the status he as achieved necessarily. People tend to forget that immediately after that, they were knocked out of the first round and missed the playoffs entirely the following season. Wade puts up pretty numbers but it meant little in the way of wins for the Heat in a very weak Eastern Conference. You can use the "his teammates sucked," argument but Kobe Bryant got the Lakers a winning record and into the playoffs with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown as starters. They nearly beat the league leading Suns in the playoffs in 7 games.

I understand what you're saying, but I just believe Wade is an amazing player and i've seen him drag GARBAGE to the playoffs and he's practically unstoppable when he wants to be. Comparing Wade with Kobe isn't pertinent or fair, when trying to compare Wade vs. Melo.

Melo is a great scorer, but I just don't feel he's got the same ability to get more out of his team. It's just my opinion. Melo is basically a one man show and I don't think what he does makes his team better. He's just a souped up version of Al Harrington or any other guy that can score in bunches. You get no D, No real passing, but you get a lot of ISO stuff with a lot of wasted possessions. Melo is a very inefficient scorer for a superstar.

Cool, and Melo has dragged garbage to the playoffs as well. People tend to forget that as a rookie, he got a 17-65 supporting cast (with the addition of Andre Miller) to the playoffs the following year. I don't care what crap Wade had on his team, he never had a roster that bad and never had to do it in the tougher Western Conference. It's difficult to argue Melo making his teams better knowing this. You can come up with all the statistics you want to suggest he is an inefficient scorer but also know that those same statistics suggested that David Lee was a more efficient player than Kobe Bryant. I don't know about you but Kobe is my choice between the two, everyday of the week and twice on Sundays. Time has shown (playoffs 2008 against the Lakers) that Melo can be both the defender and passer a team needs from a franchise player.

misterearl wrote:what nixluva said

The Knicks need a 6'11 center built like Marcus Camby

They may have one. Timofey Mozgov is pretty green but the skills are there. In time, he may blossom into the caliber of player that Camby is today. IMHO, the Knicks should add a 3rd center to slowly bring this guy this guy along as his English and confidence are his biggest issues at this point. Jared Jefferies is going to be waived at the deadline and I'd love to bring him back. People are going to **** on that possibility but forget that the guy was leading the league in charges before we traded him. He is a top notch help defender and could spell a rest for Turiaf and lessen the burden for Mozgov.

Marv wrote:melo's got the capability of being a dominant inside player. but he doesn’t want to do it. he wants to dance around the outside and be a finesse skill guy.

it's a real bad picture to bring onto this team. especially at a max salary. you end up with a guy who thinks he has to earn his keep by being the go-to shooter, and he really does little else.

he showed a lot of his true colors inn the fight in the garden a few years back with the little ***** slap cheap-shot and then the back-pedaling the hell out of there as fast as he could.

i'd rather continue the development of wilson chandler as an all-around player and an increasingly valuable cog in a machine than a shoot-shoot-shoot "savior" who we'd be grossly overpaying and would totally throw our developing balance out of whack.

It's pretty difficult imagining Melo as a player who "dance(s) around the outside (as) a finesse skill guy," when he is a regular as one of the league leaders in paints scored in the paint and in free throw's attempted each and every season. You don't score in the paint, hanging around on the perimeter and you generally don't get to the line unless you're driving the basketball, making your assessment inaccurate. I'm not sure how you can reconcile Amar'e being a max player but not Melo, who is actually better.

As for the incident with Melo in the Garden a few years back, all that shows is that Melo would make for a poor show as a MMA (mixed-martial arts) fighter. You're welcome to your opinions of Melo as a person; I personally think he's a tool of a human being as well but the guy can play basketball and will improve this team. As much as Wilson Chandler has been impressive, I think it is fairly evident that the guy is a bench play and better suited for that role in the future.

nixluva wrote:It's not just stats, but using my eyes, Melo is a great player, but he's more in the mold of guys that can do a lot but may not be the guy you need to win a title. He's our current version of Dominique Wilkins. Unbelievable player that can YES, drag a team to the playoffs ad do spectacular things. He really thrives in that kind of situation, but if you put him on a team that must rely on the team game i'm not sure how he fits. Does he do the right thing when it's needed or will he take the ill-advised jumper? From watching him I tend to think he tries to be the Hero and take a bad shot. It's almost an intangible thing i'm talking about. Just a feeling I get when watching Melo play. I feel his decision making isn't the same as some players that make the kinds of decisions that lead to championships. Just my opinion. Sure he can win a title, but I also think he's had some really good teams in Denver and they haven't always lived up to their full potential. If Lebron or Wade had those same teams I think they could do more.

He tries to be the hero cause really, no one else on his team can create. Not even Billups at his age (all Billups has now is his broken jumper). The only other scorer Melo has ever really played with has been AI, but those two players just never really meshed (or George Karl just couldn't find a system that highlighted Melo's post-play with AI's driving ability). Much like LeBron and Wade, you had two players that just took turns playing iso ball, and neither really benefited from the other.

Paul Pierce thought he had to be the hero for the Celtics for the longest time, and had a career FG% in the low 40's. He also could never carry his team to the playoffs like Melo could, in a weaker conference no less. But as soon as Boston acquired their big three, and with the proper coaching from Doc Rivers, Pierce learned to defer and to find the best shot possible. Hell, he even let a young unseasoned point guard in Rondo dominate the ball. He bought into the team concept. If Melo joins the Knicks, the hope is that he can do the same with a star like Amare on board, and not just chuck up bad shots that he often does in Denver. Add in a burgeoning scoring PG in Felton, one of Gallo or Chandler + whatever other depth we might retain in a trade, and we'd possibly have more firepower than Melo has ever played with.

Howard - the best center in the league

Garnett in his prime? I hate the dude but he was probably better than both Howard and Wade.

I agree, better than Gasol though, but not by a whole lot.