markvmc wrote:Do we have enough for two max FA's, even with moving Jeffries/Hill? Only if we also let Lee and T-mac expire.

Under contract, we'll have: Gallo, Chandler, Douglas, Curry for a combined 16mil.

Two max FA's will be around 30mil, so that's 46mill.

Keeping either Lee or Mac would cost us about 11-12, for a total of 57-58 million.

So the only way to get 2 max FA's, is to let Lee/Mac walk away (or use in S&T). If we let them walk, we have 9 open roster spots, the cap hold for which will be which will be about 3.5mill (minimum is just over 400000 per spot).

So, we either sign 2 real max players and jettison all of our expirings.

Or else we sign one max FA (15,16mill) and bring back either Lee or T-mac (11mill). 26-7 million, plus cap holds, plus current contracts = 46million. Depending on the cap, and the willingness of Lee/Mac to take a lower contract the first year, we could have Lee,Tmac,1MaxFA, and the rest.

Eather way we have no team - 2-3 players are not enough even to play. This imaginary FA you getting should be a complete moron to get into this mess...

Markji wrote:

TMS wrote:

Markji wrote:

JohnWallace44 wrote:Here's what the reality is, we need to have room to get two of the MaxFA's in order to get one. Once you accept that reality, then you understand that you need to cut more cap. There are only a couple of ways left to do that. Probably the least ugly way to do that is to include Hill in a deal to get rid of one of our remaining veteran deals. Dropping Wilson would be the worst because that would cripple us even further down the road.

Don't you think we can trade Hill + Jeffries for 1 or 2 expiring contracts on a team that is already over the cap??? Without adding any first round picks. Teams would jump on that. Jeffries isn't such a bad player, he is a good teammate, not a headcase, and has only 1 yr left. Hill is a #8 draft pick who was considered the best (or 2nd) big man in last years draft.

forget that... for Jordan Hill, a 2012 1st + swap rights in 2011, we should be getting a star player in his prime that we can build around, not an injury riddled past his prime veteran with an expiring contract & cap relief... don't sell me on some hope that Lebron & Wade will sign here this summer & use that as some asset in this deal when no one even knows what either of those guys are going to do this offseason... that has nothing to do with the Houston Rockets... the trade is absolutely lopsided in the Rockets' favor.

TMS - you didn't get my post nor my 8 previous ones. I think this deal is atrocious. My comment was that if we just wanted to get rid of Jeffries' contract by including Hill, we can easily do that wih other teams and without giving up the first round picks. Heck, we probably could get a late first round pick for the 2 of them.

sorry my response was directed toward JW, not you dude... i agree w/u, there has to be other options out there to dump Fishlips' contract w/o us having to throw in Jordan Hill & those other assets.

JohnWallace44 wrote:Adding these players gives us the resulting chance to win a championship in the next 5 years in my humble opinion.
LeBron - 75%
Wade - 15%
Johnson - 7%
Bosh - 7%
Amare - 3%
Gay - 1%

Given that assumption, you have to do anything to make sure you have the best shot at LeBron, especially when getting one of them pretty much guaranteed a parade down the canyon of heroes.

The Cavs are jumping through all the hoops to keep him. How do we get him by just standing pat? That doesn't really make sense. The PR spin that has to be put on this, is "hey look at the Knicks, they're doing everything they possibly can to get LeBron." That's the spin that's been put on Cleveland's moves, and we need to match it.

arkrud wrote:

TMS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

TMS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

JohnWallace44 wrote:Look folks, I've been saying this for years, but the fact of the matter is that we have a passive, old, weak, sheety GM. He can't draft, can't evaluate, and those chickens have come home to roost. He's made lopsided deals to get rid of ZBo and Crawford, so what's changed? This is another lopsided deal to get rid of the final piece. Should he have made a move earlier so that a team like Houston didn't hold all the cards? Yup. Is he good enough to know that? Nope. Screwed the pooch on the 08 and the 09 draft, slept through Nate and Lee's deals at last year's deadline, slept through FA season this year... At least he knows what he has to do, and what he has to do is to clear enough space for two Max players.

Its tough, but what are you gonna do? At least the guy is facing up to it and doing what needs to be done at this point.

Now that the reality.
And let’s think what we have if we will not do anything with JJ contract and just approach the summer as it is.
We can sign Lee for 12 mils (he will not take less) and beg one FA to come and play with bad team for a year for a promise to get another man next year. Who will do this? Are these FAs and their agents idiots?
Or we can let Lee go for nothing together with Nate and try to conspire 2 FAs to come together to the team with absolutely nothing to wait for third guy for a year. What is the probability of this?
This is a dead end for Walsh and he has only 1 way out - gamble it all-in.

going all in without even looking at the hand you're holding is a sucker bet

So who we exactly are - the sucker organization. Don't you know this?

the entire point to hiring Donnie Walsh & MDA was to come in & change the culture of failure that Layden & Isiah had established here in NY... if we go & make a deal like this, what exactly has changed? are we EVER going to learn from the mistakes of the past & go a different route?

again i'm not gonna piss my pants until this trade goes down if it goes down at all, but i'm just saying it better not go down if this is the deal.

So you think to do nothing and go into FA summer "as it is" is a much better proposition?

havent they freed up quite a bit of room as it stands? this all-in has no plan b. they clear out space and get no one or a bunch of guys like crwaford/marbury, we will be in this same stance in 3-4 years wishing for a change of tactics.

CrushAlot wrote:This move is like rumor of trading Zach and the Gallo pick just to dump Zach's contract. It makes no sense.

it's not even close to that scenario... that rumored deal w/Philly was just to move down 10 slots in the 1st round... we weren't giving away a rookie we just drafted #8 & another future 1st rounder in the process... we could have still landed some very good talent if we pulled that off w/Philly, including JJ Hickson, the guy who's being rumored in the deal for Amare right now.

JohnWallace44 wrote:You guys are crazy. LeBron and Wade or Bosh, plus Wilson as a glue and great third option guy, plus Gallo as a bench stretch the defense guy, plus a combo guard in TD that is geared to play with a LeBron type point forward, plus a mid-level guy and then a guy at the $ level that Sessions signed for last year...

That's not good enough to make a run?

LeBron, the 2nd Max guy and Wilson are playing 90% of the minutes for their positions if they're here next year. How much depth do we need to fill the other two slots and the 5 minutes that those guys aren't playing?

Gimme a break. Don't get scared of the plan when we're this close to making it happen.

dude, ur saying this like it's a guarantee that Lebron & Wade are coming here this summer if we pull this off? how do u know what their plans are when they don't even know themselves?

DrAlphaeus wrote:http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/walsh-reportedly-pushing-deal-for-mcgrady-that-would-include-jeffries-1.1762910?qr=1

What does Newsday — which is owned by Cablevision, which is owned along a majority of MSG & the Knicks, a publicly traded company, by the beloved Dolan family — have to say here?

BTW, I think Knicks fans should pool their resources and start buying MSG stock and turn stockholder meetings into ESPN-worthy events.

They are saying:

The page you requested cannot be found. The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

TMS wrote:

JohnWallace44 wrote:You guys are crazy. LeBron and Wade or Bosh, plus Wilson as a glue and great third option guy, plus Gallo as a bench stretch the defense guy, plus a combo guard in TD that is geared to play with a LeBron type point forward, plus a mid-level guy and then a guy at the $ level that Sessions signed for last year...

That's not good enough to make a run?

LeBron, the 2nd Max guy and Wilson are playing 90% of the minutes for their positions if they're here next year. How much depth do we need to fill the other two slots and the 5 minutes that those guys aren't playing?

Gimme a break. Don't get scared of the plan when we're this close to making it happen.

dude, ur saying this like it's a guarantee that Lebron & Wade are coming here this summer if we pull this off? how do u know what their plans are when they don't even know themselves?

My guess is that Bosh joins Wade in Miami where the climate is great and there is no state income tax. I think Amare ends up with LeBron in Cleveland and the Cavs resign LeBron and Shaq to play with Amare.

sidsanders wrote:how is it close to happening? all walsh can do is create room. if FA's choose to remain or go elsewhere, whats the plan b? lock in to lower tier FA's and have fun being a 1 and done playoff team for years or worse? i think the issue folks have is there is no plan b visible... you fail to sign the top guys, you leveraged quite a bit for nothing.

The reason we don't have a plan B is from Walsh's sheety drafting. Now you want to retain the 2012 pick so that we can maybe have a 90 year old Walsh give it another go?

Let him make simple decisions like cutting cap room and signing brand name players in the Summer.

sidsanders wrote:

JohnWallace44 wrote:You guys are crazy. LeBron and Wade or Bosh, plus Wilson as a glue and great third option guy, plus Gallo as a bench stretch the defense guy, plus a combo guard in TD that is geared to play with a LeBron type point forward, plus a mid-level guy and then a guy at the $ level that Sessions signed for last year...

That's not good enough to make a run?

LeBron, the 2nd Max guy and Wilson are playing 90% of the minutes for their positions if they're here next year. How much depth do we need to fill the other two slots and the 5 minutes that those guys aren't playing?

Gimme a break. Don't get scared of the plan when we're this close to making it happen.

how is it close to happening? all walsh can do is create room. if FA's choose to remain or go elsewhere, whats the plan b? lock in to lower tier FA's and have fun being a 1 and done playoff team for years or worse? i think the issue folks have is there is no plan b visible... you fail to sign the top guys, you leveraged quite a bit for nothing.

OK. Let's say we stay pat.
We sign Lee and wait for some top FA to come. They don't.
We are not going for second tier guys and get some one year renters again. We wait another year and try again with sh..t load of cap space.
We will also have a huge chance to be in the lottery.
Does it look like a plan... for MSG to lose 20-30 millions next year?