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OT: Welcome home, Mr. Gates
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arkrud
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7/25/2009  7:30 PM
Posted by izybx:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by GKFv2:

I don't know about that buddy, but if that guy punches me in the face then he's only going to jail if I press charges(I wouldn't but this is my point). Am I pressing charges if someone is yelling at me? No. Because why the **** would someone be arrested for yelling, no matter how obscene it is? Have you ever heard of freedom of speech? A cop is a person on the street with a uniform and is there to protect the people, not abuse their power because they got yelled at by a pedestrian. Black or white, it's sheer stupidity.


[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-24-2009 8:42 PM]

I cant speak for other states, but there are limits freedom of speech in NYC. Read NYS penal law section 240.20 to learn what constitutes Disorderly Conduct in New York. Examples:
1. Any threatening or violent behavior
2. Obscene language or gestures
3. Excessive noise
4. Refussing to obey a lawful order to disperse.
5. Blocking the free flow of pedestrian/vehicular traffic.

So when you tell a cop to "lick my balls" like your brother you or no longer able to claim freedom of speech because you violate several laws. My advice to you is DONT MOUTH OF TO POLICE OFFICERS. A cop is not a waiter, hes not a taxi driver, hes not you valet driver, hes A COP. He is not paid to be berated and will not accept it no more than any of you if you were spoke to in such a manner at YOUR job. Thats the law tough guy, so for lack of better words, suck it up and deal with it.

I don't know about you but I have never seen anyone get arrested for telling someone else to go F his mother or something like that. But apparently if this is said to a cop it's against the law, right? Why the double standard? You explain that to me "tough guy". I like how you berate people who don't agree with certain policies. The cops acted like douches in both situations, mine and Mr. Gates'. More so mine because I was actually there to witness it. I'm going to make this story up for what? I respect the NYPD but I didn't respect how they acted and treated an innocent bystander in front of his own home. You act like a douche to someone, expect the same respect back. In this case it was an officer and that's too bad because my brother was a moron who shouldn've known better. He didn't and paid the price. But the fact remains that this shouldn't happen to anyone.

And as nixluva says, if this case or my brothers' case was actually justified, the case would not be dismissed so quickly. It's all done to stroke the ego. "Oh you insult me? Well you're going to be arrested and embarrassed, how about that?". Give me a break. Law or no law, I have never - again, NEVER - seen someone on the street arrested for yelling at someone else. And I've seen quite a few arguments. Isn't that "disturbing the peace"? Or is it only disturbing when a cop is being yelled at? Have you ever heard of "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"? Exactly. The age-old saying. They are words. Not threats, not violence, not resistance. Words. Nobody should ever be arrested for laws and I don't care if it's a law. Whther it be Mr. Gates or anyone else. Arrest me for everything else on that list obscene language and I have no problem at all. 0 problem, honestly. But this? Laughable.

[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-25-2009 5:25 PM]

I dont berate anyone. Youre the one who likes to call names. This is one of those situations where youre just going to have to deal with it. You cant talk to a cop like hes a piece of garbage. Hes a cop. Its common sense. Theres really nothing more to the story. Cops are authority figures and need to be treated with respect. I dont know if you are employed or not, but if you are im assuming that you treat your boss a certain way. Im sure you talk to your co-workers like human beings. If you acted like a jerk you would be fired. Im sure then you could go cry about freedom of speech or whatever. End of the day, youre not going to win against a cop. You tell me to lick your balls your spending the weekend in jail and im getting some OT. Thats the end of the story. Just because a guy has a uniform and a shield doesnt mean you have an excuse to say things to them that you wouldnt say to a regular person on the street who would beat your ass. You can complain about it all you want but the law wont change.

That makes no sense. I'm not saying that to them BECAUSE they are a police officer. Like I said, you treat someone with complete disrespect then expect the same back. I'm not a criminal and neither is my family. Go waste your time arresting the crackheads or dealers, the real criminals out there, not some nobody in the street parked in front of his house minding his own business. This goes for Mr. Gates too, who was actually IN his own house. Wearing a uniform and a badge doesn't make someone exempt to the same treatment others get on the street WITHOUT punishment. And besides, I would say whatever I want to anyone if we were in a heated argument. This is what happens when someone gets mad if you didn't notice. They yell. Yelling is a form of anger. Anger is an expression, a feeling. Getting arrested for expressing anger thru words with no threats is a terrible law, no matter how much you want to defend it. That's my stance on it and I don't feel like going on about it because neither you or I will change our opinions about it.

[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-25-2009 6:01 PM]

The officer in question was trying to arrest a real criminal, rather than a man in his own house. Thats why he responded to the call of a man breaking into the house. It was Gates who decided to take the issue to another level. If it makes some people feel better, this is the best thing that has ever happened to Gates. He has lived his life speaking out against the very society that has made him. He is a highly educated man, with a great job, a millionaire, he hob-nobs with other social elites like Oprah, he lives in a city with a black mayor, in a state with a black gov, and in a country with a black president. The poor man has a champion of civil rights but has never felt the oppression of the white man. The day he was arrested was the best day of his life. Now he can say "I too have spent four hours in jail SIMPLY because of the color of my skin!" Now he film his documentary about racial profiling (the police officer recieved a description of black man, but he could have stopped asian children so no to hurt mu feelings!). He is the topic of conversation throughout the world. The Chairman of the United States himself has supported him!

This country is going down the tubes

OOPS... Now we are coming to the point. The things covered with nice wording are coming out.
The practical racism in America is gone and this is a good thing.
But people who benefited from it on both side of the fence are still around.
How they will fill the vacuum to still use racism in their advantage?
Yep... We can see how...



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
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Swishfm3
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7/25/2009  7:45 PM
BigC
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7/25/2009  10:34 PM
Turn on Cnn.. They are discussing this very issue now.
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RemBee76
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7/26/2009  10:22 AM
I'll leave you guys with this...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/opinion/26loury.html?ref=opinion

As far as I am concerned, the ubiquity of this narrative shows that we are incapable of talking straight with one another about race. And this much-publicized incident is emblematic of precisely nothing at all. Rather, the Gates arrest is a made-for-cable-TV tempest in a teapot. It is the rough equivalent of a black man being thrown out of a restaurant after having berated an indifferent maître d’ for showing him to a table by the kitchen door, all the while declaring what everybody is supposed to know: this is what happens to a black man in America.
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nixluva
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7/26/2009  11:54 AM
I don't know how many of you know this but Prof. Gates has white ancestors, like MANY Afro-Americans, including myself. Some of his family members can pass for white. The thing is that in that situation people are automatically classified as Black or non white, no matter what their pigment would suggest. My point is that there has always been a racial line that separates and it is also a class distinction that says one is less than. What Prof. Gates was so upset about was the fact that he knew he was not being afforded the benefit of the doubt a white man may have received in a similar situation nor the respect he felt he deserved as a MAN.

Officer Crowley should've known or at least recognized that a Black in that situation would be sensitive to a presumption of guilt. If he has counseled other cops about profiling surely he knows Blacks are suspicious of cops and how they may be treated. He wasn't very sensitive to position of Gates in this case and why he reacted so strongly and angrily.
newyorknewyork
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7/26/2009  1:29 PM
Gates was arrested for constantly asking the police officer for his badge # which the police officer refused. Gates followed the officer outside in order to try and get his badge #. He is not wrong for attempting to get the officers badge #. The police officer demanded that he saw Gates ID earlier in order to make sure he lived in the house. Gates in returned asked for the police officers badge # which the officer refused. Though according to there Police Department they do require that a badge # must be given if asked. So the officer broke the law of there PD.

I'm sure there was more to it then give me your badge #. He probably was accusing the officer of racial stuff while asking for his badge # which pissed the officer off and made him arrest him. Nothing else is really reported on what Gates was saying other then asking for his badge # and claiming "you don't know who your messing with". I don't see the disturbing the peace accusations though.

So in the end Gates didn't break any laws, The cop broke his own PD rules and regulations. Yet Gates was arrested for annoying the officer since the officer didn't want to follow the rules of his PD. If the officer did give up his badge # when first asked the issue might have been over with at that point. Which is probably why they dismissed the case so quickly.
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BasketballJones
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7/26/2009  3:19 PM
Analysis: What they saw during the Gates arrest

By JESSE WASHINGTON (AP)

Henry Louis Gates Jr. felt the hairs on the back of his neck stand up as he looked across the threshold of his home at Sgt. James Crowley. Looking back at Gates, Crowley worried about making it home safely to his wife and three children.

Fear was the only thing the white police officer and black scholar had in common. Soon their many differences would collide, exploding into a colossal misunderstanding.

How could things go so wrong? How could two by all accounts decent men start a fire that drew comparisons to the O.J. Simpson case and knocked President Barack Obama off his racial tightrope?

Part of the answer lies in the truth seen through each man's eyes during the episode, which ended with one of the most influential men in America charged with disorderly conduct.

If this really is to become a "teachable moment," as Obama hopes, then we have to examine what they saw, according to their public statements — and why they saw it that way.

___

It's early afternoon on Ware Street in Cambridge, Mass., a few blocks from the campus of Harvard University. Gates and his car service driver, a large black man, are trying to force open Gates' jammed front door. Lucia Whalen, a 40-year-old white woman who works up the street at the Harvard alumni magazine, is passing by and calls 911.

According to Crowley's police report, he arrived to find Whalen standing on the sidewalk in front of the home. She told Crowley that "she observed what appeared to be two black men with backpacks on the porch ... her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door," the report says.

No one is blaming Whalen, who has not spoken publicly since the story broke.

"It wasn't her fault," Gates said.

We don't know how she sees the world, what types of experiences color her vision.

But had she shared just one or two different details with Crowley — or if the sergeant had gleaned something else from their conversation — things might have happened differently.

Gates, 58 and gray-haired, says he was dressed in a blazer and walking with a cane. He says his driver was wearing a black suit jacket and matching pants. After they forced open the door, Gates says, the driver carried Gates' luggage into the house, then drove off in the vehicle.

None of that was on Crowley's mind when he walked up the steps to Gates home.

"Witnesses are inherently reliable," he said later. "She told me what she saw."

___

Crowley is on the porch, alone; Gates is inside his home. They apparently notice each other through the front door window at about the same time.

Crowley sees the unknown: "I really wasn't sure exactly what I was dealing with," he said later.

The sergeant is 42, a decorated 11-year police veteran who grew up attending diverse public schools in Cambridge. All three of his brothers work in law enforcement. He's an instructor in a police academy class on how to avoid racial profiling.

He asks Gates to step outside.

"I was the only police officer standing there and I got a report that there was people breaking into a house. (The request) was for my safety, because first and foremost I have to go home at night, I have three beautiful children and a wife who depend on me," he said later.

"So I had no other motive other than to ensure my safety, because this gentleman either could have been one of the people breaking in, or he could have been the homeowner who was unaware that there were people in his house unauthorized. I just didn't know."

Gates, meanwhile, is a renowned scholar of black history who has spent most of his life literally cataloguing the sins of the past in volumes like "Africana: The Encyclopedia of the African and African American Experience."

"I know every incident in the history of racism from slavery to Jim Crow segregation," he said recently.

He knows some of it firsthand. About 1989, hired by Stanley Fish to teach at Duke University in Durham, N.C., "one of the first things Gates did was buy the grandest house in town," Fish wrote in a recent blog on The New York Times' Web site.

"During the renovation workers would often take Gates for a servant and ask to be pointed to the house's owner. The drivers of delivery trucks made the same mistake."

"The message was unmistakable: What was a black man doing living in a place like this?" Fish wrote.

So when Gates hears Crowley ask him to step outside, he sees history. How could he not?

"All the hairs stood up on the back of my neck, and I realized that I was in danger," Gates said later. "And I said to him no, out of instinct. I said, 'No, I will not.'"

___

Crowley asks Gates to prove he lives there.

Looking out his front door, Gates sees someone who should be asking, "Is everything all right, sir?" He sees someone who would not doubt that a 58-year-old, gray-haired Harvard professor lived in this home — if he were white.

Gates sees a racist.

Gates leaves the front door to get his identification. Crowley follows him inside. Gates says he provided a driver's license with the address of the home they were standing in; Crowley's police report only mentions a Harvard ID.

"Now it's clear that he had a narrative in his head," Gates said. "A black man was inside someone's house, probably a white person's house, and this black man had broken and entered, and this black man was me."

Gates demands that the sergeant provide HIS identification.

Crowley sees someone who should be grateful, but instead is yelling and falsely accusing him of being a racist. He sees a problem — "something you wouldn't expect from anybody that should be grateful that you're there investigating a report of a crime in progress," he said.

Neither man understood what the other one saw.

___

Gates continues to demand that Crowley provide his name and badge number.

Crowley said in his report that he had already told Gates his name, twice, but Gates was yelling too much to hear him. Gates said Crowley ignored his demands.

Gates doesn't let up. Crowley says he'll talk to Gates outside. Then he says something Crowley understands perfectly, boiling down his 2,095 pages of "Africana" down into one cry of resistance:

"I'll speak with your mama outside," he said, according to the police report.

Gates has not disputed that remark.

Should Gates have realized that you can't antagonize the police? Should Crowley have understood what it means to suspect a black man of breaking into his own home? Arguments will persist for years.

Once he recovered his balance, backing off his statement that Crowley acted "stupidly," he Obama assumed his traditional position of racial referee and said that both men overreacted.

"My hope," the first black president continued, "is that as a consequence of this event, this ends up being what's called a teachable moment, where all of us, instead of pumping up the volume, spend a little more time listening to each other ... and that instead of flinging accusations, we can all be a little more reflective in terms of what we can do to contribute to more unity."

EDITOR'S NOTE: Jesse Washington covers race and ethnicity for The Associated Press.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
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BasketballJones
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7/26/2009  3:41 PM
Actual Facts About The Henry Louis Gates Case
By dday Friday Jul 24, 2009 7:00pm


The Henry Louis Gates situation is mainly a distraction, where the media has decided to document a sideshow instead of the hundreds of millions of people struggling every day with substandard health care coverage.

But there's also a serious policy component. Policemen should not be allowed to arrest someone for being an ******* in their own home. If that was the case, right-wing bloggers would all be doing 10-20. It appears clear, and I guess there may be audio tape to this effect, that the cop came to Gates' house, figured out that he was not a burglar, words were exchanged, and then the cop arrested him for disorderly conduct. That's really over the line of what cops should be allowed to do, regardless of the motivations, racial or otherwise.

The crime of disorderly conduct, beloved by cops who get into arguments with citizens, requires that the public be involved. Here's the relevant law from the Massachusetts Appeals Court, with citations and quotations omitted:

The statute authorizing prosecutions for disorderly conduct, G.L. c. 272, § 53, has been saved from constitutional infirmity by incorporating the definition of "disorderly" contained in § 250.2(1)(a) and (c) of the Model Penal Code. The resulting definition of "disorderly" includes only those individuals who, "with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof ... (a) engage in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; or ... (c) create a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.' "Public" is defined as affecting or likely to affect persons in a place to which the public or a substantial group has access.

The lesson most cops understand (apart from the importance of using the word "tumultuous," which features prominently in Crowley's report) is that a person cannot violate 272/53 by yelling in his own home.


Read Crowley's report and stop on page two when he admits seeing Gates's Harvard photo ID. I don't care what Gates had said to him up until then, Crowley was obligated to leave. He had identified Gates. Any further investigation of Gates' right to be present in the house could have been done elsewhere. His decision to call HUPD seems disproportionate, but we could give him points for thoroughness if he had made that call from his car while keeping an eye on the house. Had a citizen refused to leave Gates' home after being told to, the cops could have made an arrest for trespass.

But for the sake of education, let's watch while Crowley makes it worse. Read on. He's staying put in Gates' home, having been asked to leave, and Gates is demanding his identification. What does Crowley do? He suggests that if Gates wants his name and badge number, he'll have to come outside to get it. What? Crowley may be forgiven for the initial approach and questioning, but surely he should understand that a citizen will be miffed at being questioned about his right to be in his own home. Perhaps Crowley could commit the following sentences to memory: "I'm sorry for disturbing you," and "I'm glad you're all right."

Spoiling for a fight, Crowley refuses to repeat his name and badge number. Most of us would hand over a business card or write the information on a scrap of paper. No, Crowley is upset and he's mad at Gates. He's been accused of racism. Nobody likes that, but if a cop can't take an insult without retaliating, he's in the wrong job. When a person is given a gun and a badge, we better make sure he's got a firm grasp on his temper. If Crowley had called Gates a name, I'd be disappointed in him, but Crowley did something much worse. He set Gates up for a criminal charge to punish Gates for his own embarrassment.

By telling Gates to come outside, Crowley establishes that he has lost all semblance of professionalism. It has now become personal and he wants to create a violation of 272/53. He gets Gates out onto the porch because a crowd has gathered providing onlookers who could experience alarm. Note his careful recitation (tumultuous behavior outside the residence in view of the public). And please do not overlook Crowley's final act of provocation. He tells an angry citizen to calm down while producing handcuffs. The only plausible question for the chief to ask about that little detail is: "Are you stupid, or do you think I'm stupid?" Crowley produced those handcuffs to provoke Gates and then arrested him. The decision to arrest is telling. If Crowley believed the charge was valid, he could have issued a summons. An arrest under these circumstances shows his true intent: to humiliate Gates.

The cop baited the guy into leaving the house so he could arrest him for making a cop feel bad.

I appreciate the work of law enforcement. But regardless of race, too many cops have the belief that if they get insulted, they have the right to turn that into an arresting offense. That's not the law whatsoever, nor should it be. It creates a chilling effect among the public not to call out bad behavior in law enforcement or raise your voice in any way. I know we're all supposed to believe that cops are saintly, but I live in LA. Police misconduct happens all the time, and we should be vigilant when it does.

Instead, the media takes the soccer ball and chases it into the corner, without any semblance of factual records or perspective. It becomes an emotional argument instead of a factual record of misconduct. We pay cops with tax money. We should not risk arrest when arguing with them.


http://crooksandliars.com/dday/actual-facts-about-henry-louis-gates-case

[Edited by - basketballjones on 07-26-2009 15:44]
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kam77
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7/26/2009  3:45 PM
The cop that asked for Gates ID....
The same cop who Gates repeatedlly asked for his badge #....

WAS NOT THE COP WHO ARRESTED HIM!!!!

so where is the racism on his part? he should've given his badge #. so fine him and move on.

the "racist" label is a stain for life
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7/26/2009  4:00 PM
Officer Crowley says that he provided his name to Gates, but Gates didnt listen. In the NYPD you only have to identify yourself one time. You not obliged to give it over and over again. You are not obliged to lend the person a pen so that they can write down your information.

I know poor Mr Gates felt slighted that the lowly police officer who didnt know who he was or what he has been through (he bought a mansion and the delivery guy thought he was a servant WOW, but that this man has turned this into a debate on racism is deplorable. There are situations where there is legitimate descrimination, but after situations like this people are going to be much more likely to not care. You cant cry wolf all day every day.
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newyorknewyork
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7/26/2009  4:37 PM
Posted by izybx:

Officer Crowley says that he provided his name to Gates, but Gates didnt listen. In the NYPD you only have to identify yourself one time. You not obliged to give it over and over again. You are not obliged to lend the person a pen so that they can write down your information.

I know poor Mr Gates felt slighted that the lowly police officer who didnt know who he was or what he has been through (he bought a mansion and the delivery guy thought he was a servant WOW, but that this man has turned this into a debate on racism is deplorable. There are situations where there is legitimate descrimination, but after situations like this people are going to be much more likely to not care. You cant cry wolf all day every day.

Because he said he did doesn't mean that he truly did. Plus what about his badge #.

I agree with the crying wolf about racism part. But the issue is more about cops abusing power then racism in most peoples eyes. I don't think many people take this as a real racial issue but more of a cops abusing power issue.

Gates was to quick to call out racism. Crowley was more focused on his ego then being professional. Based on the bad history of police officers and racism. Crowley who has been on the force for over 11yrs should have been more willing to swallow his pride vs the 58yr old Gates. Someone with that much tenure should have understood the touchy situation, apologized for the misunderstanding even though he was only doing his job and left without saying anything more.
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7/26/2009  5:15 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Actual Facts About The Henry Louis Gates Case
By dday Friday Jul 24, 2009 7:00pm


The Henry Louis Gates situation is mainly a distraction, where the media has decided to document a sideshow instead of the hundreds of millions of people struggling every day with substandard health care coverage.

But there's also a serious policy component. Policemen should not be allowed to arrest someone for being an ******* in their own home. If that was the case, right-wing bloggers would all be doing 10-20. It appears clear, and I guess there may be audio tape to this effect, that the cop came to Gates' house, figured out that he was not a burglar, words were exchanged, and then the cop arrested him for disorderly conduct. That's really over the line of what cops should be allowed to do, regardless of the motivations, racial or otherwise.

The crime of disorderly conduct, beloved by cops who get into arguments with citizens, requires that the public be involved. Here's the relevant law from the Massachusetts Appeals Court, with citations and quotations omitted:

The statute authorizing prosecutions for disorderly conduct, G.L. c. 272, § 53, has been saved from constitutional infirmity by incorporating the definition of "disorderly" contained in § 250.2(1)(a) and (c) of the Model Penal Code. The resulting definition of "disorderly" includes only those individuals who, "with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof ... (a) engage in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; or ... (c) create a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.' "Public" is defined as affecting or likely to affect persons in a place to which the public or a substantial group has access.

The lesson most cops understand (apart from the importance of using the word "tumultuous," which features prominently in Crowley's report) is that a person cannot violate 272/53 by yelling in his own home.


Read Crowley's report and stop on page two when he admits seeing Gates's Harvard photo ID. I don't care what Gates had said to him up until then, Crowley was obligated to leave. He had identified Gates. Any further investigation of Gates' right to be present in the house could have been done elsewhere. His decision to call HUPD seems disproportionate, but we could give him points for thoroughness if he had made that call from his car while keeping an eye on the house. Had a citizen refused to leave Gates' home after being told to, the cops could have made an arrest for trespass.

But for the sake of education, let's watch while Crowley makes it worse. Read on. He's staying put in Gates' home, having been asked to leave, and Gates is demanding his identification. What does Crowley do? He suggests that if Gates wants his name and badge number, he'll have to come outside to get it. What? Crowley may be forgiven for the initial approach and questioning, but surely he should understand that a citizen will be miffed at being questioned about his right to be in his own home. Perhaps Crowley could commit the following sentences to memory: "I'm sorry for disturbing you," and "I'm glad you're all right."

Spoiling for a fight, Crowley refuses to repeat his name and badge number. Most of us would hand over a business card or write the information on a scrap of paper. No, Crowley is upset and he's mad at Gates. He's been accused of racism. Nobody likes that, but if a cop can't take an insult without retaliating, he's in the wrong job. When a person is given a gun and a badge, we better make sure he's got a firm grasp on his temper. If Crowley had called Gates a name, I'd be disappointed in him, but Crowley did something much worse. He set Gates up for a criminal charge to punish Gates for his own embarrassment.

By telling Gates to come outside, Crowley establishes that he has lost all semblance of professionalism. It has now become personal and he wants to create a violation of 272/53. He gets Gates out onto the porch because a crowd has gathered providing onlookers who could experience alarm. Note his careful recitation (tumultuous behavior outside the residence in view of the public). And please do not overlook Crowley's final act of provocation. He tells an angry citizen to calm down while producing handcuffs. The only plausible question for the chief to ask about that little detail is: "Are you stupid, or do you think I'm stupid?" Crowley produced those handcuffs to provoke Gates and then arrested him. The decision to arrest is telling. If Crowley believed the charge was valid, he could have issued a summons. An arrest under these circumstances shows his true intent: to humiliate Gates.

The cop baited the guy into leaving the house so he could arrest him for making a cop feel bad.

I appreciate the work of law enforcement. But regardless of race, too many cops have the belief that if they get insulted, they have the right to turn that into an arresting offense. That's not the law whatsoever, nor should it be. It creates a chilling effect among the public not to call out bad behavior in law enforcement or raise your voice in any way. I know we're all supposed to believe that cops are saintly, but I live in LA. Police misconduct happens all the time, and we should be vigilant when it does.

Instead, the media takes the soccer ball and chases it into the corner, without any semblance of factual records or perspective. It becomes an emotional argument instead of a factual record of misconduct. We pay cops with tax money. We should not risk arrest when arguing with them.


http://crooksandliars.com/dday/actual-facts-about-henry-louis-gates-case

[Edited by - basketballjones on 07-26-2009 15:44]

Disorderly Conduct is the classic copout charge that cops have at their disposal to punish any citizen that dares to challenge their authority or even give them a hard time about anything... a good friend of mine got arrested 1 night & brought up on D.O.C. charges after having been stopped for a minor traffic infraction & being issued 4 tickets for multiple violations that had nothing at all to do w/the reason he was stopped to begin with... this happened to my boy in Fort Lee, an area where the cops are notorious for being dickheads towards Korean drivers late at night... after having 4 tickets written out for the initial infraction of not signaling to make a turn out of a freakin' 7-11, my boy was understandably pissed & punched a stop sign out of frustration... the cop then cuffed him & brought him up on D.O.C. charges to add even further insult to insult.

like i've said in other threads discussing police officers' behavior, i have the utmost respect for cops that do their jobs the right way & treat the citizens they're paid to PROTECT & SERVE with respect & courtesy, but there are far too many dickhead cops on a serious power trip out there that give the good ones a bad name & make many citizens, especially minorities, very suspicious & wary of them because they're tired of being treated like a subhuman by some of these a-holes.
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nixluva
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7/26/2009  7:50 PM
It's a combination of Racism and abuse of power. Actually racism is often expressed as an abuse of power. In this country and others that has been the case. One racial group that has power over another has been guilty of using that power to abuse and restrict the rights of the other less powerful group. To Gates this was in a sense just an extension of a racist act by virtue of Crowley's power as a police officer, which IMO was perhaps more circumstantial than factual, but still who is to say for sure. How do we know that deep in Crowley's mind he didn't harbor some prejudice that Gates as a black man supposed to just comply with whatever he said, since he was beneath him. Thus he took offense to this black man having the gaul to talk back and give him a piece of his mind.

We can't say for sure, but history is more on Gates side than not. What has always bugged me is how quickly now many whites want things to be viewed as fixed in America. Now all of a sudden things are all equal in our society and there's no need to be vigilant about making sure minorities are treated properly. EVERYTHING IS GOOD NOW! No need for programs that help minorities to get a break or help in combating issues that plague minorites due to the hundreds of years of abuse and oppression. I'm 44 and I remember being chased by a car full of whites down a lonely country road in North Carolina and watching the Klan march down the center of town in Benson, N.C. where my family is from. I remember being constantly sent to the mailrooms of major corporations when I went to attend meetings in Manhattan, just cuz they assumed that a young black guy with a manilla folder in his hand must be a messenger. I remember a white woman that I worked in the same office with clutching her bag and stopping to ask what I wanted when I went to open the door for her. She didn't recognize me as a fellow employee, cuz she was sure I must be there to rob her in the hallway, even tho I was well dressed and being polite.

I remember all the times I was followed in stores and many other things that blacks learn to just deal with, but that whites have no idea about and my never understand how it feels. This is why I can't slam Gates for his reaction, cuz I FULLY understand why he reacted the way he did. My grandmother is in her late 70's and my wife's grandmother is 93! They have dealt with far more than I have but I can only imagine how a life full of living under a racist society has impacted how they see things in life. My dad was in the military and is a retired NY Police Lieutenant and he has a LOT of bitterness over all the indignities he's faced in his life. It's not so easy to just keep a cool head or be understanding when you've lived life in this country as a minority.
arkrud
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7/26/2009  11:26 PM
Posted by nixluva:

It's a combination of Racism and abuse of power. Actually racism is often expressed as an abuse of power. In this country and others that has been the case. One racial group that has power over another has been guilty of using that power to abuse and restrict the rights of the other less powerful group. To Gates this was in a sense just an extension of a racist act by virtue of Crowley's power as a police officer, which IMO was perhaps more circumstantial than factual, but still who is to say for sure. How do we know that deep in Crowley's mind he didn't harbor some prejudice that Gates as a black man supposed to just comply with whatever he said, since he was beneath him. Thus he took offense to this black man having the gaul to talk back and give him a piece of his mind.

We can't say for sure, but history is more on Gates side than not. What has always bugged me is how quickly now many whites want things to be viewed as fixed in America. Now all of a sudden things are all equal in our society and there's no need to be vigilant about making sure minorities are treated properly. EVERYTHING IS GOOD NOW! No need for programs that help minorities to get a break or help in combating issues that plague minorites due to the hundreds of years of abuse and oppression. I'm 44 and I remember being chased by a car full of whites down a lonely country road in North Carolina and watching the Klan march down the center of town in Benson, N.C. where my family is from. I remember being constantly sent to the mailrooms of major corporations when I went to attend meetings in Manhattan, just cuz they assumed that a young black guy with a manilla folder in his hand must be a messenger. I remember a white woman that I worked in the same office with clutching her bag and stopping to ask what I wanted when I went to open the door for her. She didn't recognize me as a fellow employee, cuz she was sure I must be there to rob her in the hallway, even tho I was well dressed and being polite.

I remember all the times I was followed in stores and many other things that blacks learn to just deal with, but that whites have no idea about and my never understand how it feels. This is why I can't slam Gates for his reaction, cuz I FULLY understand why he reacted the way he did. My grandmother is in her late 70's and my wife's grandmother is 93! They have dealt with far more than I have but I can only imagine how a life full of living under a racist society has impacted how they see things in life. My dad was in the military and is a retired NY Police Lieutenant and he has a LOT of bitterness over all the indignities he's faced in his life. It's not so easy to just keep a cool head or be understanding when you've lived life in this country as a minority.

Very well said and right on point.
The only problem I see with this - white and black America is gone.
The America of now and much more so of tomorrow is Indian/Chinese/Latino country.
So anything which was and is between whites and blacks has no meaning for almost a half of Americans and will be absolutely irrelevant for majority very soon.
So there is very little time left for Gaits and Crowley’s to get their studies on racial profiling. They should hurry up.









"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TMS
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7/27/2009  12:38 PM
i get tired of talking about racism as if it's just purely a black & white issue, as if all the other minority groups out there don't face racism in some form or another in our own communities & in the media even.
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martin
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7/27/2009  1:03 PM
Posted by TMS:

i get tired of talking about racism as if it's just purely a black & white issue, as if all the other minority groups out there don't face racism in some form or another in our own communities & in the media even.

you feel slighted because of stereotyped racism.
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7/27/2009  1:24 PM
Posted by izybx:
Posted by TheGame:

This is from an article on CNN:

The issue of whether or not Gates — first in his home and later on his front porch — was in a public place has sparked plenty of debate, including in the blogosphere. Crowley's account of the incident included the detail that "at least seven" passers-by had stopped to rubberneck. Sam Goldberg, author of Boston Criminal Lawyer Blog, thinks the report includes that detail in order to bolster the case that this altercation was playing out publicly. "It's as if he was saying, 'Look, he was really causing a disturbance,'" says Goldberg, a criminal defense attorney at the Cambridge-based firm of Altman & Altman.

Jon Shane, who spent 17 years as a police officer in hardscrabble Newark, N.J., said that had he been the cop called to Gates' house, he would have left Gates and his huffy comments alone once he was sure Gates was the homeowner. He admits he may well have been offended by the professor's alleged bluster, but that's just part of the job, so much so that there's a term in police vernacular devoted to situations like this: contempt of cop.

"In contempt of court, you get loud and abusive in a courtroom, and it's against the law," says Shane, now a professor of criminal justice at John Jay who specializes in police policy and practice. "With contempt of cop, you get loud and nasty and show scorn for a law enforcement officer, but a police officer can't go out and lock you up for disorderly conduct because you were disrespectful toward them." The First Amendment allows you to say pretty much anything to the police. "You could tell them to go f--k themselves," says Shane, "and that's fine."
____

This sums up my point. No police officer should arrest someone for voicing their opinion unless it rises to the point of interfering with the officer doing his job. There is no question these officers knew that Gates lived there and as this officer said, once they determined that, they should have taken their butt on.

Beautiful. You guys want to argue about whether this guy crossed the gray line and locked up a guy for discon then go ahead. Its actually a worthy debate. But what I like about this post is there is no nonsense about how this only happened because the guy is black.

I don't think the initial situation happened because Gates was black. But the decision to arrest him was certainly influenced by the fact he was black. No way those cops arrest Gates if he was a white man who took offense to them being there once they determined it was his house. And, I absolutely will not excuse a police officer abusing their power by unnecessarily wasting all our tax payers dollars by arresting someone, when they know they have no valid basis to arrest them but rather are merely trying to get "payback" because the person was not as nice as the officers thinks he should have been. I guess I should be allowed to conduct a citizens arrest the next time an officer acts like an a-hole to me, because he is not treating me with the respect I think I deserve. If I tried to do that, I would really be arrested and probably charged with assaulting an officer. A police officer who does the same thing should be subjected to no less punishment. These cops should all be suspended for their actions to send a clear message that this type of unprofessional behavior will not be tolerated from the police.
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TMS
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7/27/2009  1:33 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by TMS:

i get tired of talking about racism as if it's just purely a black & white issue, as if all the other minority groups out there don't face racism in some form or another in our own communities & in the media even.

you feel slighted because of stereotyped racism.

what the heck is stereotyped racism?
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martin
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7/27/2009  1:35 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by martin:
Posted by TMS:

i get tired of talking about racism as if it's just purely a black & white issue, as if all the other minority groups out there don't face racism in some form or another in our own communities & in the media even.

you feel slighted because of stereotyped racism.

what the heck is stereotyped racism?

racism that is talked about just purely as a black & white issue
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TMS
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7/27/2009  1:40 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by martin:
Posted by TMS:

i get tired of talking about racism as if it's just purely a black & white issue, as if all the other minority groups out there don't face racism in some form or another in our own communities & in the media even.

you feel slighted because of stereotyped racism.

what the heck is stereotyped racism?

racism that is talked about just purely as a black & white issue

i don't feel slighted... i wish there were no racism at all in this country, but it exists & the media consistently chooses to focus on racism as if it's purely a black & white issue & ignores all the other minority groups, which in itself helps to perpetuate the existence of ignorant attitudes towards people of ethnicity.

just using my own race as an example, look at every Hollywood movie & television series out there... when's the last time u watched a movie where an Asian man was represented in a positive light other than as some kinda kung fu expert? it's always either a yakuza gangster, or a non-English speaking chinese food delivery guy William Hung type mockery, or sometimes both... some shows poke fun at the stereotypes & exaggerate them, but the same old Charlie Chan images of Asian men still exist to this day as they did back in the 50s & 60s, nothing's changed.
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OT: Welcome home, Mr. Gates

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