Obama stands for change, Hillary stands for same old political bull****. She is a CLINTON. Enough is enough.

Posted by Bippity10:


Is this reality or is it our movie inspired, class warfare inspired vision of business. Most businesses are not in practice to force people to work more. On the contrary to attract better talent you have to actually give more in today's world. I think some of us have just worked for bad companies and buy the hype. We are taught in this world that business owners are bad people that CEO's are rich greedy fu-- blah, blah, blah. The reality is that business owners and CEO's are representive of the rest of society. There are good ones and bad ones. Nice ones and mean ones. This notion that businesses are inherently greedy is not an accurate one. Businesses are in business to make a profit. That is why they exist. They do what it takes to earn a profit. In some cases that means cutting jobs. In some cases that means coddling employees. There is a lot more that goes into running an EFFECTIVE business than being greedy and hoarding as much for yourself as you can.

This is a government and hollywood inspired caricature.

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by Bippity10:


Is this reality or is it our movie inspired, class warfare inspired vision of business. Most businesses are not in practice to force people to work more. On the contrary to attract better talent you have to actually give more in today's world. I think some of us have just worked for bad companies and buy the hype. We are taught in this world that business owners are bad people that CEO's are rich greedy fu-- blah, blah, blah. The reality is that business owners and CEO's are representive of the rest of society. There are good ones and bad ones. Nice ones and mean ones. This notion that businesses are inherently greedy is not an accurate one. Businesses are in business to make a profit. That is why they exist. They do what it takes to earn a profit. In some cases that means cutting jobs. In some cases that means coddling employees. There is a lot more that goes into running an EFFECTIVE business than being greedy and hoarding as much for yourself as you can.

This is a government and hollywood inspired caricature.

Bippity,

So tell me do these numbers sound like "hype" or "hollywood inspired caricature"? Average pay for top CEO's is 10.5 million on average 344 times the pay of the average worker .

America's highest paid power suits" Hedge and Private Equity fund partnerships the top 50 of these managers averaged $588 million in earnings. To make matters worse these fund managers pay taxes at the rate of 15% whereas the average American Worker pays 35%. Why is this because of a provision in the tax code that allows them to claim their "carried interest" as capital gain. So on average for every million made in pocketed interest Investment Fund Managers saves around $200,000 in taxes.
I don't know call me crazy but maybe this provision needs to be revisited by our government.

I'm just getting to the good stuff the loopholes created for Corporations allow them to save twice as much with "unlimited tax deductibility of executive pay" thus top companies can deduct their executives pay off their corporate income taxes. So essentially the more a company pays an executive the less they pay in taxes.

Finally the government has created 20 billion dollars worth of bail outs and procurement for Corporations.

So you don't think any of these loopholes and tax codes warrants legislative reform? Because we're all waiting for that elusive trickle down effect into the economy. This isn't just some "government and hollywood inspired caricature". It's reality as long as some of continue to rely on media sound bites for our information none of these issues will be addressed because corporate America continues on the American people's ignorance on these matters. So whatever side you fall on please please I cannot say it enough become informed about the topic particularly since this issue affects all of us workers directly.

Once agian, Bitty you take the extremes. No one said "no legislative reform is needed". but I do definitely express doubt in increased government involvement. They have not shown us that they can run our businesses any more fairly than our business owners can, yet we have no problem saying we need "more government involvement. What we fail to realize that the people that run government are pulled from the same pool of people that you consider "greedy CEOs". It's no different. Actually a large portion of those running our government were at one time "greedy CEO's".

How is your public transit system doing. Every year the cost of mine goes up. Every few years it nearly doubles. Yet the product and service do not get better. They are a government created monopoly and in position to give back by creating a great service at a cheap price. It's never done. Our school system is the same. The Board of Education is developed and our school systems go in the crapper.

Do we need reform? Yes. No one has argued with you on this. I'm just not so quick to jump on the the government has the best solution band wagon. In some areas they just need to get out of the way.

As for your average CEO pay. Remember that is overall pay, not salary. The average Salary is far less. The rest of the pay is tied into performance incentives which is what Investor's have been clamoring for. This has been the trend since the Enron and Tyco scandals.

Posted by bitty41:

Bippity,

I think you are probably a generally intelligent guy but this debate is very difficult to have when concrete facts are consistently absence from your posts. I'm not trying to be conscending but you really aren't bringing anything of substance to the table. I am not entirely sure if you are comprehending the workings of our government and how it works in relation to business. I've presented facts that clearly demostrate incidences in which government was heavily involved and there was economic growth in both this country and foreign countries. Yet you seemingly ignore that big government in business can and has worked. Most importantly the government is the one to police business so unless you offer another entity, government is the best thing we have going for providing answers for our economic crisis? So we can lean on our Congress, Senate, and President for solutions.

So let me see:

1.) You are insulting as he-ll in this post. Good job on that one. But thanks, your insults have inspired me to go back to school to get to your level of education so we can discuss politics on a sports website that wastes our day in a deeper more meaningful way.

2.) Consistent facts absent from my post? Of course. we are on a sports website in the middle of the day while hopefully both of us are working/or attending school. If you are researching to find concrete facts, something is wrong. This is a surface level argument.

3.) You and I have not yet disagreed on whether government intervention and regulation is needed in business, you and I have disagreed on how much. By insulting my point of view you have taken the road that so many do in debate today. Especially in this situation where we are talking in soundbites instead of having a real face to face conversation and points are made on the fly. If someone disagrees just go after their intelligence level.

4.) I have given you clear examples of two government run programs which are the main reason why I only want "government policing" and nothing else.

5.) In the future if you need more clarification on a topic feel free to ask in a respectful way.

6.) just think all the moments we just spent discussing this topic could have been put to better use. We could have used these wasted minutes bettering ourselves so that we can make more money and complain less.

Posted by bitty41:

If you think discussing the country in which you reside in economic policies to be a waste of time then by all means I admit you have me beat on that front. But keep in mind that when you complain about people voting just party lines instead of voting by the candidate that you find to be the most agreeable; choosing not to become fully informed on issues you leave yourself with no choice but to vote for the "popular" candidates of the Democrat or Republican parties.

But your right I'll get back to spending my time researching whether Gallinari can shoot an NBA 3.

Posted by bitty41:

I don't know or care what your individual level intelligence is because you don't need to justify yourself to me. All I ask from debates is exchange of facts and opinions. If you enter into a debate and consistently fail to include facts in your positions you can't really expect for your position to be taken seriously.

I would be more then willing to listen and digest to your opinions accompanied with facts. But I have very little patience for rhethoric on tangible issues like the economy, foreign policy, health care, etc. I think this statement says it all

Consistent facts absent from my post? Of course. we are on a sports website in the middle of the day while hopefully both of us are working/or attending school. If you are researching to find concrete facts, something is wrong. This is a surface level argument.

Politics affects our lives every hour on everyday so to me researching about my country's Economic policies is not just relevant after work, after hanging out with my friends, or after watching my favorite television show. I don't care if I'm in a gocery store, bar, at the beach, party, this is always relevant and beneficial to discuss. Btw I work in Economic Development so it is kinda of relevant lol.

Posted by Elite:

Obama stands for change, Hillary stands for same old political bull****. She is a CLINTON. Enough is enough.. Time for a new face. A new energy. HIllary would have contradicted everything Obama stands for, she was never even CONSIDERED. The only reason it was even brought up in the media is cuz it makes for a good story. So when people like Briggs get SERIOUS about it actually could have/should have happened it shows that u don't understand this election, and you don't understand Obama. There was never a chance for Hillary to be on the ticket.

Posted by Bippity10:

"What if taxes are not raised that money goes staright into their greedy pockets, right? Business dont hire people as a social service they hire less people than they need and force everyone to work extra. So I dont completely buy the notion that they can shed more people and continue to operate at the same level."

Is this reality or is it our movie inspired, class warfare inspired vision of business. Most businesses are not in practice to force people to work more. On the contrary to attract better talent you have to actually give more in today's world. I think some of us have just worked for bad companies and buy the hype. We are taught in this world that business owners are bad people that CEO's are rich greedy fu-- blah, blah, blah. The reality is that business owners and CEO's are representive of the rest of society. There are good ones and bad ones. Nice ones and mean ones. This notion that businesses are inherently greedy is not an accurate one. Businesses are in business to make a profit. That is why they exist. They do what it takes to earn a profit. In some cases that means cutting jobs. In some cases that means coddling employees. There is a lot more that goes into running an EFFECTIVE business than being greedy and hoarding as much for yourself as you can.

This is a government and hollywood inspired caricature.