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Where in the history of the NBA has a 20 year old 20-10 C traded with a HIGH lottery pick for
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TrueBlue
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6/10/2008  12:34 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Boston traded #7(Foye), Lafrentz, Dickau to for Telfair(#13pick), Ratliff expiring contract, a 2nd rd pick.

This is not a comparable trade or situation to us & philly. First of all Lafrentz was not a 26 yr old 20pt 10 rebound guy at the time. Lafrentz was an over the hill washed up player who provided Boston minimal production but a big contract. He averaged 7.8pts 5rebs. Portland didn't trade for Lafrentz in order to fill any need or provide them with any type of extra boost. They only expected to eat his contract and lack of production in order to get the #7 pick.
NEW YORK -- The Boston Celtics acquired second-year Portland Trail Blazers point guard Sebastian Telfair, center Theo Ratliff and a 2008 second-round pick for the No. 7 pick in Wednesday's NBA draft, Randy Foye, as well as forward Raef LaFrentz and Dan Dickau.

Boston has been searching for a true point guard and wasn't overwhelmed by the choices that it may have at No. 7. The Celtics worked out Connecticut's Marcus Williams, Kentucky's Rajon Rondo and Villanova's Randy Foye on Monday. All three could be available at No. 7. But the Celtics brass decided that Telfair, two years into the league, was better suited for the Celtics' system at this juncture in his career.

Second Ainge felt that Telfair was comparable to Foye, Williams & Rondo. So it wasn't even like they were trading down. And even if you do consider it trading down. They basically traded down to #13 or 7 spots since thats where Telfair was draft 2yrs prior and unloaded *dead weight* for a shorter contract.

I don't get the Houston agruement between you two guys either. Shane Battier was the #5 pick in the draft 5yrs prior. That doesn't count as trading down. Battier was also a proven producer, defender and all around player. That doesn't equate to the #16th pick.

You can't bring up past pick spots for players. If that's the case WTF did our very own fans support trading Frye(pick 8 2005) and Francis(pick 2 1999) for Zach Randolph(pick 19 2001) Fred Jones(pick 14 2002) Dan Dickau(pick 28 2002)?

Reguardless of that. Ainge felt Telfair was comparable to Foye, Williams & Rondo. Battier held way more value that the #16th pick. There for you can't count either of those trades as trading down 10 spots as we would be doing in this deal.

Ainge said whatever to make himself and his fan base feel better for trading for Telfair. It doesn't matter, it's about what those teams gave up pick wise which were very high. An Battier's stock wasn't that high because supposedly everyone thought the Rockets got bent and porked the day they made the trade. Even to this day many don't understand why they made the trade.

Thats speculation on your part. The fact is he said what he said. Boston saved 13mil by swapping Lafrentz for Ratliff. Do you believe if Foye or Williams or Rondo blew him away he would move that pick in order to save 13mil? Do you really believe that they gave away the #7pick feeling Telfair was just a throw in in order to save 13mil?

It wasn't about Battiers stock more so then Gay's potential. Again they landed the #6 lottery pick for Battier thats a fact. I will also speculate that Memphis wouldn't have settled for anything less then a top 10 pick. Houston also had a franchise player in Yao Ming & a dominant scorer in Tracy Mcgrady. They weren't looking for potential as much as they were looking for substance.

All im saying is if we were to give up the #6 pick then Philly needs to give up a another draft pick. Randolph isn't dead weight like Lafrentz we can't go into the deal treating him as such.

Portland treated him as deadweight and were a playoff team for half a season. Zach did nothing to increase his value from that trade. In my examples I'm showing how teams gave up lottery picks and didn't get picks back but didn't suffer. They got something of value but nothing equal in terms of picks according to the pick they gave up. Philly doesn't have to give anything else because it's a fair trade. Basically from the latest posts if our roster was different the trade is reasonable but since we don't have no K.G. or franchise player then the trade isn't fair. That logic doesn't make sense.

After they landed Oden and had Aldridge in the wings, Randolph became expendable. Thats different from dead weight. Also notice how they got a shorter contract and a prospect like Frye in return who even though he had a down yr, was 2nd for rookie of the yr the yr prior and still had/has potential. This when Randolph's value was at its worst because he had 4yrs left. Notice how they didn't have to trade Brandon Roy in order to unload him. Or that they didn't have to package Outlaw, Webster, & Jarret Jack in order to unload him.

Also as I stated before the yr prior Randolph played 68games, Roy(R) played 57games, Aldridge(R) played 63 & averaged 9pts 5rebs 1blk, Outlaw played 67games, Martel Webster did play 82 games but only put up 7pts on 39% shooting. Granted unloading Randolph probably helped them take a step forward since he is a selfish player, staying healthy and having another yr of exprerience also helped as well. So lets not act like *just* unloading Randolph made them better. If Roy, Aldridge & Outlaw only played 57,63,67 games this past season how many games would they have won?

I don't remember anyone saying how we overpaid in that deal either. Because going by this thread, we should have gotten a lottery pick, or Brandon Roy, or Webster, Outlaw & Jarret Jack back by swapping Randolphs contract for a shorter one & giving up Frye. I can't picture Portland even agreeing to a deal like that.

Going by this thread they did get a lottery pick they got Frye(8th pick of 2005). Make no mistake about it those of us who want to get rid of Zach pretty much have his value at zero and we had his value the same when we traded for him. And notice no one in the league wanted to touch Zach except for you know who. Portland sold him for beans to get cap relief the same thing we're trying to do except the only difference as if it couldn't be possible his value is even lower than it was then, which means it's going to be even more difficult to unload him and more than likely come with a cost. Fans didn't think we over paid, they thought we worked Portland over and as we can see they were wrong, but those of us who were opposed sure wish we had Francis' expiring last yr and Frye instead of Zach.

Again thats speculation. The facts are Randolph was had for a prospect and a shorter contract. More facts, Portland didn't have to offer a lottery pick or Brandon Roy in order to unload him. More facts, Denver & Miluakee were in talks of trading for Randolph at the deadline.

You are speculating on Randolph's value at the draft, but you have no Idea what Portland was willing or not willing to take back in any trade for him. You are speculating that no team had any interest in him. You are speculating that just because its Isiah Thomas Portland was able to steal Frye away and avoid giving up any propsects or picks in order to unload him.

I can just as easily speculate that Portland wasn't willing to give up Randolph for nothing less then salary cap space & a prospect and would have refused to give up any of there prospects or draft picks in order to trade him. And my speculation would be backed by the deal that transpired which was Francis & Frye for Randolph, Fred Jones, & Dan Dickau.

What do you have to back your speculation that nobody wanted to touch Randolph other than your own personal dislike for his game? When the knicks gave up Francis & Frye for him & 2 teams at the trade deadline considerd trading for him?

From Oregonlive.com

Character counts a lot
Pritchard’s basketball pedigree is top-drawer. He played for Larry Brown and Roy Williams at Kansas. Two of Brown’s assistants during his time there were Gregg Popovich and R.C. Buford, who run the San Antonio organization that has won four NBA championships over the past nine seasons.

Pritchard spent two years as a scout for the Spurs before coming to Portland in 2004. Brown, Williams, Popovich and Buford are his basketball mentors, and he wants to mirror their philosophies as he develops his own with the Blazers.

“San Antonio kind of put the stamp on me,” Pritchard says. “The common denominator of championship teams is that the locker room is great. Players don’t have to hang out or do everything together, but somebody was willing to step up and take responsibility. Good locker room, good people.

“Maybe I overemphasize it. Has it turned me away from talented players who maybe aren’t the best people? Absolutely. What it boils down to, I want to be a part of something really special, and I want to be in the trenches with people I admire.”

It’s why Pritchard traded Zach Randolph and wanted nothing to do with guard Steve Francis. He didn’t want their influence around his team’s young players. It’s why Pritchard says he will do everything he can to support coach Nate McMillan and help the Blazers’ young fleet of executives learn the business.


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-10-2008 12:04 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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TrueBlue
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6/10/2008  12:44 AM
At Wednesday's news conference, Kohl spoke about his reasons for nixing the trade.

"I don't want to impugn him, because I've never met him," Kohl said about Randolph, the Knicks power forward, who was obtained in a trade with Portland last summer. "Zach started out in Portland, and at the point they traded him, they really wanted to do that. He did not help them win.

"Then they traded him to New York, and within six months they wanted him out. They were prepared to trade him to the Bucks or anyone else. And he had three years, plus this year, remaining on his contract, which was over $50 million.

"Now any owner, I submit, who would not take an interest in that and would not want to be a part of that decision, is not doing his job. When it comes to decisions of that magnitude, the owner needs to be on board."
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
martin
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6/10/2008  1:01 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by islesfan:

What if Zach decides to take bereavement leave and gets spotted at Scores? What if he really gets into a fight with a teammate? What if he's not big on the ball movement that D'Antonio will demand and gets into it with D'Antonio? What if Walsh and D'Antonio realize why Portland didn't want him anywhere near their young players because he's such a bad influence?

The chances of Randolph LOWERING his trade value by this time next year is pretty damn good. Why? Because it's been going down every year! Even after going 24-10.

Plus next year there will likely be an improvement in their won-loss record which likely puts their first round pick lower than 6. So if they really want to get rid of an even bigger malcontent, he'll have even less trade value and the Knicks won't be in position to merely swap picks and avoid taking back a really bad contract.

You guys do know that Donnie Walsh has stated time and time again that his goal is to get under the cap by 2010, right? If he has any chance of that happening, Randolph has to get traded. For that to happen, the Knicks will have to bite the bullet one way of the other. Moving down 10 picks is likely to be one of the least painful ways of doing this.

They don't have to give up an asset, they just take a different player. It's still a first round pick and a solid one at that. Having to trade Lee, which Briggs has said he was amenable to do if he doesn't sign a contract, just to get rid of Randolph would be giving up an asset.

Some people want to be Pollyanish and pretend that there are difficult decisions that have to be made. Others are more realistic and want to diminish the pain and the longer you wait to get rid of Randolph, the more painful it's going to be for the Knicks.

So you finally admit that we would be overpaying.

We would be giving philly everything they want and more. Buy having the #6 lottery pick any risk they would have by taking Randolph would be gone. If Randolph didn't work out who cares they could buy him out and have there #6 lottery pick for the next 10yrs. Basically what we could do at this point. If Randolph works out they could contend for the ECC currently then have the #6 pick be a part of there core 5yrs later.

LOL they would be trading to be in our position right now of Randolph & the #6 pick. The difference is Randolph would be a great fit for there current mix of players & they would add in a freaking #6 lottery pick. We would be trading to be in there situation minus the Andre Igoudala, Andre Miller, Thaddeus Young (well maybe with Chandler), Samuel Dalembert, and the 35mil salary cap.

I don't know what online GED course you graduated from but I said nothing of the kind.


Paying, yes. Overpaying, no. Overpaying will come next summer when Randolph's trade value continues to decrease and simply dropping 10 spots, while still getting a good draft pick in return, will seem like an absolute heist compared to what we'll have to do to get rid him them.

nyny has been going back and forth with you and kept it on the level, give him that same respect and leave the pot-shots out of it.
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newyorknewyork
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6/10/2008  1:05 AM
Character counts a lot
Pritchard’s basketball pedigree is top-drawer. He played for Larry Brown and Roy Williams at Kansas. Two of Brown’s assistants during his time there were Gregg Popovich and R.C. Buford, who run the San Antonio organization that has won four NBA championships over the past nine seasons.

Pritchard spent two years as a scout for the Spurs before coming to Portland in 2004. Brown, Williams, Popovich and Buford are his basketball mentors, and he wants to mirror their philosophies as he develops his own with the Blazers.

“San Antonio kind of put the stamp on me,” Pritchard says. “The common denominator of championship teams is that the locker room is great. Players don’t have to hang out or do everything together, but somebody was willing to step up and take responsibility. Good locker room, good people.

“Maybe I overemphasize it. Has it turned me away from talented players who maybe aren’t the best people? Absolutely. What it boils down to, I want to be a part of something really special, and I want to be in the trenches with people I admire.”

It’s why Pritchard traded Zach Randolph and wanted nothing to do with guard Steve Francis. He didn’t want their influence around his team’s young players. It’s why Pritchard says he will do everything he can to support coach Nate McMillan and help the Blazers’ young fleet of executives learn the business.

We all know why Portland wanted to trade way Randolph. Thats not the arguement, The arguement is what was the trade value of Randolph because even though he was selfish, he still was young and produced. You claim that the only reason why Portland got the deal they got was because they traded with Isiah Thomas and that nobody wanted to touch Randolph.

So lets view how columnist viewed Randolphs value after Portland got the #1 pick.

With Blazers having No. 1 pick, Randolph could be traded
Posted by Chris Mackinder May 25, 2007 10:56AM
There have been talks in recent days that the Portland Trail Blazers not only will take Greg Oden with the No. 1 pick in the 2007 NBA Draft, but they also would love to draft fellow Ohio State point guard Mike Conley Jr. That, of course, would mean Portland would have to trade some of its current players - possibly former MSU star Zach Randolph.


May 24, 2007, The Daily Herald: If (the Blazers are looking to trade Randolph), consider the Bulls interested. A year ago, that probably wasn't the case, since Randolph had several brushes with the law, and general manager John Paxson is choosy about the kind of characters he allows in the locker room.

But now that the Bulls' braintrust feels the team is close to becoming a championship contender, they are willing to take a chance. They no doubt watched with envy as Rasheed Wallace helped close out the second-round playoff series against Detroit. If only the Bulls could land a troubled former Trail Blazer of their own.

Realistically, though, it's difficult to imagine why Portland would feel much need to trade Randolph. The 25-year-old is coming off the best season of his career (23.6 points, 10.1 rebounds).

Randolph is owed $61 million over the next four years, but the Blazers already solved most of their payroll problems. Chances are, there won't be a Randolph fire sale like there was for Wallace three years ago.


ESPN.com's Chad Ford answered questions about a possible Randolph-to-Chicago deal in a SportsNation chat session yesterday.


May 24, 2007, ESPN.com:
W. Thinker, (Washington D.C.): Everyone is making this decision Portland has too difficult. Why not just ship Randolph and Aldridge to Seattle for their pick this year and get Oden AND Durant? It just makes sense, right?

Chad Ford: GREED. Get the chance to draft the best big man prospect since Tim Duncan and you want Kevin Durant or Mike Conley too? Knowing Pritchard, he wouldn't hesitate to make either of those deals. It's obvious he's going to move Zach Randolph here ... maybe Martell Webster and see if he can get a more experienced small forward back. Dallas and Chicago seem like the best candidates. Portland will want Josh Howard, though I find it hard to believe Dallas would let him go. Chicago might be willing to do Andres Nocioni and P.J. Brown in a sign and trade type of deal. That could make some sense for Portland though in the latter case, I may try to push for Chicago's No. 9 pick as part of the deal.


Chicago Tribune columnist Sam Smith believes it will take a lot for the Blazers to draft both Oden and Conely Jr., even with trading Randolph.


May 24, 2007, Chicago Tribune: He sounds like a perfect match for a team like the Bulls, a 6-foot-9-inch, 270-pound player with a rare, classic post-up game and outside shot. He averaged 23.6 points and 10.1 rebounds per game last season, but with Oden and last year's No. 1 pick, LaMarcus Aldridge, there certainly is no room for Randolph in Portland. His time there was rumored to be up anyway, no matter whom the team would get in the draft.

The first order of business for the Trail Blazers, now that they can have Oden, will be to see if they can trade for his high school and college buddy, point guard Mike Conley Jr.

That probably would require a trade with the Atlanta Hawks, who have the No. 3 pick and a need for a point guard. They already have floated suggestions they might take Conley.

The Trail Blazers have Georgia Tech point guard Jarrett Jack. Perhaps there could be a deal by packaging him with Randolph and a future No. 1. Big-time agent Billy Duffy has been rumored for weeks to be working on uniting the pair no matter where Oden goes. Duffy is working with Conley and his father, who is acting as the agent for his son and Oden.

The most recent talk has the Trail Blazers trying to trade Randolph to the Washington Wizards, who are in desperate need of interior scoring. Perhaps in a multiteam deal with Atlanta? Antawn Jamison, who's going into his final contract season with the Wizards, could be part of a deal to offset Randolph's $13.3 million salary for next season.


A bay area Web site has said the Golden State Warriors might be a possible landing ground for Randolph.


May 24, 2007, Insidebayarea.com: Some will say the Warriors were among the biggest losers Tuesday because their competition for the bottom-end playoff spots in the West got tougher with Portland and Seattle landing the top two draft picks.

While that's true, the Warriors might have caught a break with the Trail Blazers winning the Greg Oden sweepstakes. Suddenly, the low-post force Golden State so strongly covets -- Zach Randolph -- just might become available.

Monta Ellis (better fit than Randolph), Sarunas Jasikevicius (last year of his deal), Adonal Foyle (veteran to work with Oden) and the No. 18 pick (another young player) for Randolph would seem to help both teams and passes salary-cap inspection.


Look at the deals speculated, Mike Conley Jr which means they would have had to get the #3pick, Josh Howard, Monta Ellis, No. 18pick , Foyle & Jasikevicius.

Looks to me like these columnist didn't get the memo on how nobody wanted to touch Randolph and his contract. Even with his baggage there was only 2-3 sentances about it in the whole thing. Yet a bunch of talk about his production and skill. Thats because young guys who produce allways will hold value even if they have baggage.

We are willing to sell Randolph for the bargain price of only Reggie Evens because he doesn't fit in with D'Antoni's style and doesn't fit in with Eddie Curry and we are trying to get cap relief for 2010 IMO. Not because we need to get rid of him so bad that we need to overpay to unload him or because his value hit so low that thats what he is worth. IMO Philly is just trying to fleece the Knicks because they know that Randolph isn't a good fit here and we are desperately trying to unload him. Not because they feel that is his value and there scared of the risk.
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islesfan
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6/10/2008  1:08 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by islesfan:

What if Zach decides to take bereavement leave and gets spotted at Scores? What if he really gets into a fight with a teammate? What if he's not big on the ball movement that D'Antonio will demand and gets into it with D'Antonio? What if Walsh and D'Antonio realize why Portland didn't want him anywhere near their young players because he's such a bad influence?

The chances of Randolph LOWERING his trade value by this time next year is pretty damn good. Why? Because it's been going down every year! Even after going 24-10.

Plus next year there will likely be an improvement in their won-loss record which likely puts their first round pick lower than 6. So if they really want to get rid of an even bigger malcontent, he'll have even less trade value and the Knicks won't be in position to merely swap picks and avoid taking back a really bad contract.

You guys do know that Donnie Walsh has stated time and time again that his goal is to get under the cap by 2010, right? If he has any chance of that happening, Randolph has to get traded. For that to happen, the Knicks will have to bite the bullet one way of the other. Moving down 10 picks is likely to be one of the least painful ways of doing this.

They don't have to give up an asset, they just take a different player. It's still a first round pick and a solid one at that. Having to trade Lee, which Briggs has said he was amenable to do if he doesn't sign a contract, just to get rid of Randolph would be giving up an asset.

Some people want to be Pollyanish and pretend that there are difficult decisions that have to be made. Others are more realistic and want to diminish the pain and the longer you wait to get rid of Randolph, the more painful it's going to be for the Knicks.

So you finally admit that we would be overpaying.

We would be giving philly everything they want and more. Buy having the #6 lottery pick any risk they would have by taking Randolph would be gone. If Randolph didn't work out who cares they could buy him out and have there #6 lottery pick for the next 10yrs. Basically what we could do at this point. If Randolph works out they could contend for the ECC currently then have the #6 pick be a part of there core 5yrs later.

LOL they would be trading to be in our position right now of Randolph & the #6 pick. The difference is Randolph would be a great fit for there current mix of players & they would add in a freaking #6 lottery pick. We would be trading to be in there situation minus the Andre Igoudala, Andre Miller, Thaddeus Young (well maybe with Chandler), Samuel Dalembert, and the 35mil salary cap.

I don't know what online GED course you graduated from but I said nothing of the kind.


Paying, yes. Overpaying, no. Overpaying will come next summer when Randolph's trade value continues to decrease and simply dropping 10 spots, while still getting a good draft pick in return, will seem like an absolute heist compared to what we'll have to do to get rid him them.

nyny has been going back and forth with you and kept it on the level, give him that same respect and leave the pot-shots out of it.

Oh come on, I was just kidding around.

But fine. newyorknewyork, if you took offense to that playful jab, I sincerely apologize. I'm sure you graduated from an accredited secondary school.

All better?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
newyorknewyork
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6/10/2008  1:11 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by islesfan:

What if Zach decides to take bereavement leave and gets spotted at Scores? What if he really gets into a fight with a teammate? What if he's not big on the ball movement that D'Antonio will demand and gets into it with D'Antonio? What if Walsh and D'Antonio realize why Portland didn't want him anywhere near their young players because he's such a bad influence?

The chances of Randolph LOWERING his trade value by this time next year is pretty damn good. Why? Because it's been going down every year! Even after going 24-10.

Plus next year there will likely be an improvement in their won-loss record which likely puts their first round pick lower than 6. So if they really want to get rid of an even bigger malcontent, he'll have even less trade value and the Knicks won't be in position to merely swap picks and avoid taking back a really bad contract.

You guys do know that Donnie Walsh has stated time and time again that his goal is to get under the cap by 2010, right? If he has any chance of that happening, Randolph has to get traded. For that to happen, the Knicks will have to bite the bullet one way of the other. Moving down 10 picks is likely to be one of the least painful ways of doing this.

They don't have to give up an asset, they just take a different player. It's still a first round pick and a solid one at that. Having to trade Lee, which Briggs has said he was amenable to do if he doesn't sign a contract, just to get rid of Randolph would be giving up an asset.

Some people want to be Pollyanish and pretend that there are difficult decisions that have to be made. Others are more realistic and want to diminish the pain and the longer you wait to get rid of Randolph, the more painful it's going to be for the Knicks.

So you finally admit that we would be overpaying.

We would be giving philly everything they want and more. Buy having the #6 lottery pick any risk they would have by taking Randolph would be gone. If Randolph didn't work out who cares they could buy him out and have there #6 lottery pick for the next 10yrs. Basically what we could do at this point. If Randolph works out they could contend for the ECC currently then have the #6 pick be a part of there core 5yrs later.

LOL they would be trading to be in our position right now of Randolph & the #6 pick. The difference is Randolph would be a great fit for there current mix of players & they would add in a freaking #6 lottery pick. We would be trading to be in there situation minus the Andre Igoudala, Andre Miller, Thaddeus Young (well maybe with Chandler), Samuel Dalembert, and the 35mil salary cap.

I don't know what online GED course you graduated from but I said nothing of the kind.


Paying, yes. Overpaying, no. Overpaying will come next summer when Randolph's trade value continues to decrease and simply dropping 10 spots, while still getting a good draft pick in return, will seem like an absolute heist compared to what we'll have to do to get rid him them.

nyny has been going back and forth with you and kept it on the level, give him that same respect and leave the pot-shots out of it.

Hahaha its cool Martin, my online GED taught me that thats a sign of weakness. People usually resort to those type of antics when they have nothing else of substance. He might think he could make me mad and then I will start calling people names and get frustrated and lose focus no what im talking about.
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TrueBlue
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6/10/2008  1:13 AM
All speculation you quoted from the very thing you are chiding me for.

Chad Ford not realiable

Sam Smith not reliable and proven liar

I read possible, believed, appears a better fit, seem like meanwhile I had a direct quote from his GM saying he gave up on players with talent and an owner who turned down a trade in which no draft picks were offered for Zach as recent as this past deadline.

You posted a bunch of empty headlines for nothing and that's too bad.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
newyorknewyork
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6/10/2008  1:14 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by islesfan:

What if Zach decides to take bereavement leave and gets spotted at Scores? What if he really gets into a fight with a teammate? What if he's not big on the ball movement that D'Antonio will demand and gets into it with D'Antonio? What if Walsh and D'Antonio realize why Portland didn't want him anywhere near their young players because he's such a bad influence?

The chances of Randolph LOWERING his trade value by this time next year is pretty damn good. Why? Because it's been going down every year! Even after going 24-10.

Plus next year there will likely be an improvement in their won-loss record which likely puts their first round pick lower than 6. So if they really want to get rid of an even bigger malcontent, he'll have even less trade value and the Knicks won't be in position to merely swap picks and avoid taking back a really bad contract.

You guys do know that Donnie Walsh has stated time and time again that his goal is to get under the cap by 2010, right? If he has any chance of that happening, Randolph has to get traded. For that to happen, the Knicks will have to bite the bullet one way of the other. Moving down 10 picks is likely to be one of the least painful ways of doing this.

They don't have to give up an asset, they just take a different player. It's still a first round pick and a solid one at that. Having to trade Lee, which Briggs has said he was amenable to do if he doesn't sign a contract, just to get rid of Randolph would be giving up an asset.

Some people want to be Pollyanish and pretend that there are difficult decisions that have to be made. Others are more realistic and want to diminish the pain and the longer you wait to get rid of Randolph, the more painful it's going to be for the Knicks.

So you finally admit that we would be overpaying.

We would be giving philly everything they want and more. Buy having the #6 lottery pick any risk they would have by taking Randolph would be gone. If Randolph didn't work out who cares they could buy him out and have there #6 lottery pick for the next 10yrs. Basically what we could do at this point. If Randolph works out they could contend for the ECC currently then have the #6 pick be a part of there core 5yrs later.

LOL they would be trading to be in our position right now of Randolph & the #6 pick. The difference is Randolph would be a great fit for there current mix of players & they would add in a freaking #6 lottery pick. We would be trading to be in there situation minus the Andre Igoudala, Andre Miller, Thaddeus Young (well maybe with Chandler), Samuel Dalembert, and the 35mil salary cap.

I don't know what online GED course you graduated from but I said nothing of the kind.


Paying, yes. Overpaying, no. Overpaying will come next summer when Randolph's trade value continues to decrease and simply dropping 10 spots, while still getting a good draft pick in return, will seem like an absolute heist compared to what we'll have to do to get rid him them.

nyny has been going back and forth with you and kept it on the level, give him that same respect and leave the pot-shots out of it.

Oh come on, I was just kidding around.

But fine. newyorknewyork, if you took offense to that playful jab, I sincerely apologize. I'm sure you graduated from an accredited secondary school.

All better?

Truthfully you made me laugh because I don't take this debate serious on that level where a simple diss could make my head spin.

Its not like your talking about how black people are lazy or something.
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martin
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6/10/2008  1:15 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by islesfan:

What if Zach decides to take bereavement leave and gets spotted at Scores? What if he really gets into a fight with a teammate? What if he's not big on the ball movement that D'Antonio will demand and gets into it with D'Antonio? What if Walsh and D'Antonio realize why Portland didn't want him anywhere near their young players because he's such a bad influence?

The chances of Randolph LOWERING his trade value by this time next year is pretty damn good. Why? Because it's been going down every year! Even after going 24-10.

Plus next year there will likely be an improvement in their won-loss record which likely puts their first round pick lower than 6. So if they really want to get rid of an even bigger malcontent, he'll have even less trade value and the Knicks won't be in position to merely swap picks and avoid taking back a really bad contract.

You guys do know that Donnie Walsh has stated time and time again that his goal is to get under the cap by 2010, right? If he has any chance of that happening, Randolph has to get traded. For that to happen, the Knicks will have to bite the bullet one way of the other. Moving down 10 picks is likely to be one of the least painful ways of doing this.

They don't have to give up an asset, they just take a different player. It's still a first round pick and a solid one at that. Having to trade Lee, which Briggs has said he was amenable to do if he doesn't sign a contract, just to get rid of Randolph would be giving up an asset.

Some people want to be Pollyanish and pretend that there are difficult decisions that have to be made. Others are more realistic and want to diminish the pain and the longer you wait to get rid of Randolph, the more painful it's going to be for the Knicks.

So you finally admit that we would be overpaying.

We would be giving philly everything they want and more. Buy having the #6 lottery pick any risk they would have by taking Randolph would be gone. If Randolph didn't work out who cares they could buy him out and have there #6 lottery pick for the next 10yrs. Basically what we could do at this point. If Randolph works out they could contend for the ECC currently then have the #6 pick be a part of there core 5yrs later.

LOL they would be trading to be in our position right now of Randolph & the #6 pick. The difference is Randolph would be a great fit for there current mix of players & they would add in a freaking #6 lottery pick. We would be trading to be in there situation minus the Andre Igoudala, Andre Miller, Thaddeus Young (well maybe with Chandler), Samuel Dalembert, and the 35mil salary cap.

I don't know what online GED course you graduated from but I said nothing of the kind.


Paying, yes. Overpaying, no. Overpaying will come next summer when Randolph's trade value continues to decrease and simply dropping 10 spots, while still getting a good draft pick in return, will seem like an absolute heist compared to what we'll have to do to get rid him them.

nyny has been going back and forth with you and kept it on the level, give him that same respect and leave the pot-shots out of it.

Hahaha its cool Martin, my online GED taught me that thats a sign of weakness. People usually resort to those type of antics when they have nothing else of substance. He might think he could make me mad and then I will start calling people names and get frustrated and lose focus no what im talking about.

fair enough, carry on.
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newyorknewyork
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6/10/2008  1:23 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:

All speculation you quoted from the very thing you are chiding me for.

Chad Ford not realiable

Sam Smith not reliable and proven liar

I read possible, believed, appears a better fit, seem like meanwhile I had a direct quote from his GM saying he gave up on players with talent and an owner who turned down a trade in which no draft picks were offered for Zach as recent as this past deadline.

You posted a bunch of empty headlines for nothing and that's too bad.

I don't believe any of those deals were in the works or had any legs either. But I also don't see the speculation about teams wanting to stay as far away from Randolph as possible.

The point I was trying to make with that speculation from th columnist is that they felt Randolph still had value because he was young a produced despite the baggage. They didn't feel that Portland would have to give up anything other than Randolph for the most part and that Portland would target guys like Josh Howard, Mike Conley jr, Nocioni & PJ Brown.

If you wish, show me a credible source informing me on how no teams(other than the Knicks) wanted to trade for Randolph after Portland made him available at the draft.
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TrueBlue
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6/10/2008  1:25 AM
Sizing up the Blazers
ON THE NBA • Roster spots, roles need to be sorted out as team gets younger
BY KERRY EGGERS

The Portland Tribune, Jul 3, 2007

JIM CLARK / PORTLAND TRIBUNE

Did Portland really get numerous offers for Zach Randolph?

Sort of. It wasn’t easy getting rid of Randolph, at least because General Manager Kevin Pritchard wanted to get something of value in return.


Pritchard had conversations about Randolph with representatives of seven or eight clubs and got offers from several — but he felt only one gave the Blazers close to Randolph’s value.

The Blazers had had enough of Randolph’s off-court issues and didn’t want his considerable presence around the flock of young players who are now the club’s nucleus. Additionally, coach Nate McMillan wanted to open up plenty of playing time for No. 1 draft choice Greg Oden and second-year pro LaMarcus Aldridge, who will transition from a center/power forward to almost strictly a 4.

“Now we have a core of young guys in the middle (Oden, Aldridge and Channing Frye) who can develop together,” McMillan says. “There won’t be anyone in front of them slowing their process down.”

A key to New York’s offer for Randolph was a $3 million trade exception that allowed the Blazers to acquire small forward James Jones from Phoenix — a move that can’t be made official until next week. Jones, 26, makes $2.9 million next season and can then opt out of a contract that calls for him to make $3.15 million in 2008-09, the final year of his deal.

The 6-8, 225-pound Jones is a four-year veteran who averaged 6.4 points and 2.3 rebounds in 18.1 minutes through the regular season, shooting .368 from the field but .378 from 3-point range and .877 from the line. Jones started six of Phoenix’s 11 playoff games, averaging 5.0 points and shooting .528 from the field in 15.5 minutes per game.

The Suns, with Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Kurt Thomas and Boris Diaw on their front line, obviously considered Jones expendable. Blazer brass likes Jones’ athleticism and long-range shooting and believes he can contend for the starting spot next season.

• What are the odds of a buyout of Steve Francis’ contract?

Very high. The veteran guard, 30, has two years left on his deal at $16.44 million next season and $17.18 million in 2008-09. Blazer execs won’t know for a while, but it is believed Francis would accept something less than that — $25 million, perhaps? — to be out of the deal and become a free agent.

Good thing Paul Allen isn’t a bread-liner.

• What does Isiah Thomas think about taking on a player with the baggage of Randolph? Evidently, the Knicks’ president is very comfortable with it.

“We did our homework and stayed on top of it and did our background search and everything else, as we do with all the players we’re going after,” Thomas tells the New York media. “Everything we heard and saw made him one of the guys we wanted to pursue.”

Thomas says he told New York owner James Dolan that “we really needed to get (Randolph) out of Portland, because he seems to run into a lot of problems in Portland. We need to get him to New York because he’d be in a safer place.”

Uh-huh. Clearly the temptations in Portland are greater than they will be for Randolph in the Big Apple.

More Thomas: “He’ll definitely be under the microscope. We all are here. That’s just New York. But I don’t think the issues he’s run into in Portland … we’ll try to avoid those issues here.”


They got offers from 7-8 clubs and none were of fair value according to Pritchard compared to what we offered? It was difficult to get rid of him according to Pritchard. Holy Crap I'm right Zach's value=non existent and he did nothing here to increase it, which means........ YOU EPIC FAIL!!!!!!


Not to mention I could pull up the quote from I SAY UGH this past season when it was rumored he and/or Curry could go to the Heat for J-Will and Ricky Davis and he said "He won't give them away", which once again translates to LOW NON EXISTENT VALUE.

Keep thinking he has it though.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-10-2008 12:28 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
islesfan
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6/10/2008  1:27 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by TrueBlue:

All speculation you quoted from the very thing you are chiding me for.

Chad Ford not realiable

Sam Smith not reliable and proven liar

I read possible, believed, appears a better fit, seem like meanwhile I had a direct quote from his GM saying he gave up on players with talent and an owner who turned down a trade in which no draft picks were offered for Zach as recent as this past deadline.

You posted a bunch of empty headlines for nothing and that's too bad.

I don't believe any of those deals were in the works or had any legs either. But I also don't see the speculation about teams wanting to stay as far away from Randolph as possible.

The point I was trying to make with that speculation from th columnist is that they felt Randolph still had value because he was young a produced despite the baggage. They didn't feel that Portland would have to give up anything other than Randolph for the most part and that Portland would target guys like Josh Howard, Mike Conley jr, Nocioni & PJ Brown.

If you wish, show me a credible source informing me on how no teams(other than the Knicks) wanted to trade for Randolph after Portland made him available at the draft.

You're seriously expecting us to prove a negative?
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TMS
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6/10/2008  1:35 AM
newyork, the fact that POR was so quick to unload him on us for an expiring & Frye should tell u all u need to know about what his real value was at the time he was offered in a trade, & that's off a career best season at that... what do u think his value is now around the NBA when the trade to bring him to NY actually backfired on us & made our team regress even further than where we were to begin with? wouldn't it be fair to assume if there were other teams looking to trade for Zach & offering up anything more desirable than cap space & Channing Frye that they would have made the deal w/those teams instead? this is why i think it's dangerous to pass on this deal cuz the more he remains on this team IMO the more it will keep us from moving forward & improving as a unit... like i pointed out to u before, after Zach became the man on that POR team they went down the tubes for 4 straight seasons... i think that's very telling of the type of player that he is... he's a stat accumulator but doesn't make the guys around him better... w/the new regime in NY i think we need to purge all the negativity around this roster & start to put some guys together who want to play team basketball & unselfishly... Walsh has made his #1 goal well known, he wants to get under the cap in 2010... this trade helps him achieve that... i don't see why it's so foolish to consider its merits the way some of us are doing.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-09-2008 10:35 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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6/10/2008  1:44 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Sizing up the Blazers
ON THE NBA • Roster spots, roles need to be sorted out as team gets younger
BY KERRY EGGERS

The Portland Tribune, Jul 3, 2007

JIM CLARK / PORTLAND TRIBUNE

Did Portland really get numerous offers for Zach Randolph?

Sort of. It wasn’t easy getting rid of Randolph, at least because General Manager Kevin Pritchard wanted to get something of value in return.


Pritchard had conversations about Randolph with representatives of seven or eight clubs and got offers from several — but he felt only one gave the Blazers close to Randolph’s value.

The Blazers had had enough of Randolph’s off-court issues and didn’t want his considerable presence around the flock of young players who are now the club’s nucleus. Additionally, coach Nate McMillan wanted to open up plenty of playing time for No. 1 draft choice Greg Oden and second-year pro LaMarcus Aldridge, who will transition from a center/power forward to almost strictly a 4.

“Now we have a core of young guys in the middle (Oden, Aldridge and Channing Frye) who can develop together,” McMillan says. “There won’t be anyone in front of them slowing their process down.”

A key to New York’s offer for Randolph was a $3 million trade exception that allowed the Blazers to acquire small forward James Jones from Phoenix — a move that can’t be made official until next week. Jones, 26, makes $2.9 million next season and can then opt out of a contract that calls for him to make $3.15 million in 2008-09, the final year of his deal.

The 6-8, 225-pound Jones is a four-year veteran who averaged 6.4 points and 2.3 rebounds in 18.1 minutes through the regular season, shooting .368 from the field but .378 from 3-point range and .877 from the line. Jones started six of Phoenix’s 11 playoff games, averaging 5.0 points and shooting .528 from the field in 15.5 minutes per game.

The Suns, with Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Kurt Thomas and Boris Diaw on their front line, obviously considered Jones expendable. Blazer brass likes Jones’ athleticism and long-range shooting and believes he can contend for the starting spot next season.

• What are the odds of a buyout of Steve Francis’ contract?

Very high. The veteran guard, 30, has two years left on his deal at $16.44 million next season and $17.18 million in 2008-09. Blazer execs won’t know for a while, but it is believed Francis would accept something less than that — $25 million, perhaps? — to be out of the deal and become a free agent.

Good thing Paul Allen isn’t a bread-liner.

• What does Isiah Thomas think about taking on a player with the baggage of Randolph? Evidently, the Knicks’ president is very comfortable with it.

“We did our homework and stayed on top of it and did our background search and everything else, as we do with all the players we’re going after,” Thomas tells the New York media. “Everything we heard and saw made him one of the guys we wanted to pursue.”

Thomas says he told New York owner James Dolan that “we really needed to get (Randolph) out of Portland, because he seems to run into a lot of problems in Portland. We need to get him to New York because he’d be in a safer place.”

Uh-huh. Clearly the temptations in Portland are greater than they will be for Randolph in the Big Apple.

More Thomas: “He’ll definitely be under the microscope. We all are here. That’s just New York. But I don’t think the issues he’s run into in Portland … we’ll try to avoid those issues here.”


They got offers from 7-8 clubs and none were of fair value according to Pritchard compared to what we offered? It was difficult to get rid of him according to Pritchard. Holy Crap I'm right Zach's value=non existent and he did nothing here to increase it, which means........ YOU EPIC FAIL!!!!!!


Not to mention I could pull up the quote from I SAY UGH this past season when it was rumored he and/or Curry could go to the Heat for J-Will and Ricky Davis and he said "He won't give them away", which once again translates to LOW NON EXISTENT VALUE.

Keep thinking he has it though.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-10-2008 12:28 AM]

You know you just proved my point right.

Pritchard, wanted value in return. He was not looking to package picks and players in order to unload Randolph even with Randolphs baggage.

They stated only one team came *close* to Randolphs value which means they felt Randolph had even more value then what the Knicks offerd.

7-8 teams showing intrest is a FAR FAR FAR cry from no team wanting to touch Randolph as you stated.

Also what was the value that the 6-7 other teams were offering that wasn't good enough? It doesn't say. Do you think one of them was on the level of Randolph for Reggie Evens? If Francis & Frye was *close* to his value then I doubt a Reggie Evens deal was appealing to them.

And with this how does this equate to Portland having to unload the a lottery pick in order to move him?

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 06-10-2008 01:47 AM]
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6/10/2008  1:45 AM
Posted by TMS:

newyork, the fact that POR was so quick to unload him on us for an expiring & Frye should tell u all u need to know about what his real value was at the time he was offered in a trade, & that's off a career best season at that... what do u think his value is now around the NBA when the trade to bring him to NY actually backfired on us & made our team regress even further than where we were to begin with? wouldn't it be fair to assume if there were other teams looking to trade for Zach & offering up anything more desirable than cap space & Channing Frye that they would have made the deal w/those teams instead? this is why i think it's dangerous to pass on this deal cuz the more he remains on this team IMO the more it will keep us from moving forward & improving as a unit... like i pointed out to u before, after Zach became the man on that POR team they went down the tubes for 4 straight seasons... i think that's very telling of the type of player that he is... he's a stat accumulator but doesn't make the guys around him better... w/the new regime in NY i think we need to purge all the negativity around this roster & start to put some guys together who want to play team basketball & unselfishly... Walsh has made his #1 goal well known, he wants to get under the cap in 2010... this trade helps him achieve that... i don't see why it's so foolish to consider its merits the way some of us are doing.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-09-2008 10:35 PM]


He'll probably fire back and say something along the lines "You guys said no one wanted/wants Zach but he had 7-8 teams call PDX for him and a couple teams were rumored to want him at the deadline this past season". Well guess what nyny KVH was a wanted man also, so this isn't saying much. You're not wanted if no one is willing to give anything worth while for you. Ask yourself how 7-8 teams call PDX in hopes to land their sexy 20/10 center, but don't beat our offer and according to the article they weren't even close to our offer. The clincher in the article, the mention the key to the deal was obtaining the TE to sign the FORMIDABLE james Jones. So without the exception in the deal, he might still be in PDX rotting away or bought out.
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TrueBlue
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6/10/2008  1:55 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Sizing up the Blazers
ON THE NBA • Roster spots, roles need to be sorted out as team gets younger
BY KERRY EGGERS

The Portland Tribune, Jul 3, 2007

JIM CLARK / PORTLAND TRIBUNE

Did Portland really get numerous offers for Zach Randolph?

Sort of. It wasn’t easy getting rid of Randolph, at least because General Manager Kevin Pritchard wanted to get something of value in return.


Pritchard had conversations about Randolph with representatives of seven or eight clubs and got offers from several — but he felt only one gave the Blazers close to Randolph’s value.

The Blazers had had enough of Randolph’s off-court issues and didn’t want his considerable presence around the flock of young players who are now the club’s nucleus. Additionally, coach Nate McMillan wanted to open up plenty of playing time for No. 1 draft choice Greg Oden and second-year pro LaMarcus Aldridge, who will transition from a center/power forward to almost strictly a 4.

“Now we have a core of young guys in the middle (Oden, Aldridge and Channing Frye) who can develop together,” McMillan says. “There won’t be anyone in front of them slowing their process down.”

A key to New York’s offer for Randolph was a $3 million trade exception that allowed the Blazers to acquire small forward James Jones from Phoenix — a move that can’t be made official until next week. Jones, 26, makes $2.9 million next season and can then opt out of a contract that calls for him to make $3.15 million in 2008-09, the final year of his deal.

The 6-8, 225-pound Jones is a four-year veteran who averaged 6.4 points and 2.3 rebounds in 18.1 minutes through the regular season, shooting .368 from the field but .378 from 3-point range and .877 from the line. Jones started six of Phoenix’s 11 playoff games, averaging 5.0 points and shooting .528 from the field in 15.5 minutes per game.

The Suns, with Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Kurt Thomas and Boris Diaw on their front line, obviously considered Jones expendable. Blazer brass likes Jones’ athleticism and long-range shooting and believes he can contend for the starting spot next season.

• What are the odds of a buyout of Steve Francis’ contract?

Very high. The veteran guard, 30, has two years left on his deal at $16.44 million next season and $17.18 million in 2008-09. Blazer execs won’t know for a while, but it is believed Francis would accept something less than that — $25 million, perhaps? — to be out of the deal and become a free agent.

Good thing Paul Allen isn’t a bread-liner.

• What does Isiah Thomas think about taking on a player with the baggage of Randolph? Evidently, the Knicks’ president is very comfortable with it.

“We did our homework and stayed on top of it and did our background search and everything else, as we do with all the players we’re going after,” Thomas tells the New York media. “Everything we heard and saw made him one of the guys we wanted to pursue.”

Thomas says he told New York owner James Dolan that “we really needed to get (Randolph) out of Portland, because he seems to run into a lot of problems in Portland. We need to get him to New York because he’d be in a safer place.”

Uh-huh. Clearly the temptations in Portland are greater than they will be for Randolph in the Big Apple.

More Thomas: “He’ll definitely be under the microscope. We all are here. That’s just New York. But I don’t think the issues he’s run into in Portland … we’ll try to avoid those issues here.”


They got offers from 7-8 clubs and none were of fair value according to Pritchard compared to what we offered? It was difficult to get rid of him according to Pritchard. Holy Crap I'm right Zach's value=non existent and he did nothing here to increase it, which means........ YOU EPIC FAIL!!!!!!


Not to mention I could pull up the quote from I SAY UGH this past season when it was rumored he and/or Curry could go to the Heat for J-Will and Ricky Davis and he said "He won't give them away", which once again translates to LOW NON EXISTENT VALUE.

Keep thinking he has it though.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-10-2008 12:28 AM]

You know you just proved my point right.

Pritchard, wanted value in return. He was not looking to package picks and players in order to unload Randolph even with Randolphs baggage.

They stated only one team came *close* to Randolphs value which means they felt Randolph had even more value then what the Knicks offerd.

7-8 teams showing intrest is a FAR FAR FAR cry from no team wanting to touch Randolph as you stated.

Also what was the value that the 6-7 other teams were offering that wasn't good enough? It doesn't say. Do you think one of them was on the level of Randolph for Reggie Evens? If Francis & Frye was *close* to his value then I doubt a Reggie Evens deal was appealing to them.

Yes because you clearly don't understand the NBA cap. Although they felt his value was higher it didn't get met which means they gave him away as I stated many moons ago. If Philly could fill the trade to match the dollars and send Portland a pick sure it would have been done IMO. They were looking for Future Cap space, young prospect(Jones), and TE. Oh and did you know since Philly is under the cap and salaries don't have to match we'd pick up a hefty TE in the process if we did the trade? So let's review it again...

Zach and 6(New York receives $10mil TE(which is like immediate cap space, we could sign a FA this summer(Monta Ellis) if we wanted with the $10mil.. expiring a yr from trade), 16 pick, $10mil in cap space

4

Reggie and 16(Philly receives cancer, albatross contract, chemistry killer and BPA at 6)

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-10-2008 12:56 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
newyorknewyork
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6/10/2008  1:59 AM
Posted by TMS:

newyork, the fact that POR was so quick to unload him on us for an expiring & Frye should tell u all u need to know about what his real value was at the time he was offered in a trade, & that's off a career best season at that... what do u think his value is now around the NBA when the trade to bring him to NY actually backfired on us & made our team regress even further than where we were to begin with? wouldn't it be fair to assume if there were other teams looking to trade for Zach & offering up anything more desirable than cap space & Channing Frye that they would have made the deal w/those teams instead? this is why i think it's dangerous to pass on this deal cuz the more he remains on this team IMO the more it will keep us from moving forward & improving as a unit... like i pointed out to u before, after Zach became the man on that POR team they went down the tubes for 4 straight seasons... i think that's very telling of the type of player that he is... he's a stat accumulator but doesn't make the guys around him better... w/the new regime in NY i think we need to purge all the negativity around this roster & start to put some guys together who want to play team basketball & unselfishly... Walsh has made his #1 goal well known, he wants to get under the cap in 2010... this trade helps him achieve that... i don't see why it's so foolish to consider its merits the way some of us are doing.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-09-2008 10:35 PM]

The value of a player like Randolph was exactly what Portland got in return a shorter contract and a decent prospect or another high priced high productive player with baggage like him.

To trade him for Reggie Evens is more than fair. To trade him along with your #6 pick for Reggie Evens & #16 is overpaying. They want to even out the deal they are going to need to add another pick.

Portland would be trading to be in our situation of Randolph & the #6 pick. Think about that. They have more to gain with Randolph on there team then we do with him on ours but we both have = to lose with Randolph on either teams.

So if they have more to gain with Randolph on there team why should we have to give up the #6 pick as well??
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6/10/2008  2:06 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by TMS:

newyork, the fact that POR was so quick to unload him on us for an expiring & Frye should tell u all u need to know about what his real value was at the time he was offered in a trade, & that's off a career best season at that... what do u think his value is now around the NBA when the trade to bring him to NY actually backfired on us & made our team regress even further than where we were to begin with? wouldn't it be fair to assume if there were other teams looking to trade for Zach & offering up anything more desirable than cap space & Channing Frye that they would have made the deal w/those teams instead? this is why i think it's dangerous to pass on this deal cuz the more he remains on this team IMO the more it will keep us from moving forward & improving as a unit... like i pointed out to u before, after Zach became the man on that POR team they went down the tubes for 4 straight seasons... i think that's very telling of the type of player that he is... he's a stat accumulator but doesn't make the guys around him better... w/the new regime in NY i think we need to purge all the negativity around this roster & start to put some guys together who want to play team basketball & unselfishly... Walsh has made his #1 goal well known, he wants to get under the cap in 2010... this trade helps him achieve that... i don't see why it's so foolish to consider its merits the way some of us are doing.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-09-2008 10:35 PM]

The value of a player like Randolph was exactly what Portland got in return a shorter contract and a decent prospect or another high priced high productive player with baggage like him.

To trade him for Reggie Evens is more than fair. To trade him along with your #6 pick for Reggie Evens & #16 is overpaying. They want to even out the deal they are going to need to add another pick.

Portland would be trading to be in our situation of Randolph & the #6 pick. Think about that. They have more to gain with Randolph on there team then we do with him on ours but we both have = to lose with Randolph on either teams.

So if they have more to gain with Randolph on there team why should we have to give up the #6 pick as well??


Philly doesn't have to give anything more they are providing us with a $10mil TE which is like immediate cap space. We could sign potentially Monta Ellis, Josh Childress, Ben Gordon, Josh Smith, Luol Deng, Biendrins, Jokafor, Iggy
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
TMS
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6/10/2008  2:10 AM
i understand it would be nice to get Philly to throw us another pick, i would love that... i'm just saying i think it's worth our while to pull the trigger now cuz i don't see many better deals coming our way in the near future.

TB, i didn't know about that trade exception... is that right? if so it's an asset that Walsh can possibly use, either to sign someone or in another trade... trade exceptions are tradeable, are they not? or no? i was never too clear on that whole thing to begin with.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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6/10/2008  2:10 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Sizing up the Blazers
ON THE NBA • Roster spots, roles need to be sorted out as team gets younger
BY KERRY EGGERS

The Portland Tribune, Jul 3, 2007

JIM CLARK / PORTLAND TRIBUNE

Did Portland really get numerous offers for Zach Randolph?

Sort of. It wasn’t easy getting rid of Randolph, at least because General Manager Kevin Pritchard wanted to get something of value in return.


Pritchard had conversations about Randolph with representatives of seven or eight clubs and got offers from several — but he felt only one gave the Blazers close to Randolph’s value.

The Blazers had had enough of Randolph’s off-court issues and didn’t want his considerable presence around the flock of young players who are now the club’s nucleus. Additionally, coach Nate McMillan wanted to open up plenty of playing time for No. 1 draft choice Greg Oden and second-year pro LaMarcus Aldridge, who will transition from a center/power forward to almost strictly a 4.

“Now we have a core of young guys in the middle (Oden, Aldridge and Channing Frye) who can develop together,” McMillan says. “There won’t be anyone in front of them slowing their process down.”

A key to New York’s offer for Randolph was a $3 million trade exception that allowed the Blazers to acquire small forward James Jones from Phoenix — a move that can’t be made official until next week. Jones, 26, makes $2.9 million next season and can then opt out of a contract that calls for him to make $3.15 million in 2008-09, the final year of his deal.

The 6-8, 225-pound Jones is a four-year veteran who averaged 6.4 points and 2.3 rebounds in 18.1 minutes through the regular season, shooting .368 from the field but .378 from 3-point range and .877 from the line. Jones started six of Phoenix’s 11 playoff games, averaging 5.0 points and shooting .528 from the field in 15.5 minutes per game.

The Suns, with Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Kurt Thomas and Boris Diaw on their front line, obviously considered Jones expendable. Blazer brass likes Jones’ athleticism and long-range shooting and believes he can contend for the starting spot next season.

• What are the odds of a buyout of Steve Francis’ contract?

Very high. The veteran guard, 30, has two years left on his deal at $16.44 million next season and $17.18 million in 2008-09. Blazer execs won’t know for a while, but it is believed Francis would accept something less than that — $25 million, perhaps? — to be out of the deal and become a free agent.

Good thing Paul Allen isn’t a bread-liner.

• What does Isiah Thomas think about taking on a player with the baggage of Randolph? Evidently, the Knicks’ president is very comfortable with it.

“We did our homework and stayed on top of it and did our background search and everything else, as we do with all the players we’re going after,” Thomas tells the New York media. “Everything we heard and saw made him one of the guys we wanted to pursue.”

Thomas says he told New York owner James Dolan that “we really needed to get (Randolph) out of Portland, because he seems to run into a lot of problems in Portland. We need to get him to New York because he’d be in a safer place.”

Uh-huh. Clearly the temptations in Portland are greater than they will be for Randolph in the Big Apple.

More Thomas: “He’ll definitely be under the microscope. We all are here. That’s just New York. But I don’t think the issues he’s run into in Portland … we’ll try to avoid those issues here.”


They got offers from 7-8 clubs and none were of fair value according to Pritchard compared to what we offered? It was difficult to get rid of him according to Pritchard. Holy Crap I'm right Zach's value=non existent and he did nothing here to increase it, which means........ YOU EPIC FAIL!!!!!!


Not to mention I could pull up the quote from I SAY UGH this past season when it was rumored he and/or Curry could go to the Heat for J-Will and Ricky Davis and he said "He won't give them away", which once again translates to LOW NON EXISTENT VALUE.

Keep thinking he has it though.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-10-2008 12:28 AM]

You know you just proved my point right.

Pritchard, wanted value in return. He was not looking to package picks and players in order to unload Randolph even with Randolphs baggage.

They stated only one team came *close* to Randolphs value which means they felt Randolph had even more value then what the Knicks offerd.

7-8 teams showing intrest is a FAR FAR FAR cry from no team wanting to touch Randolph as you stated.

Also what was the value that the 6-7 other teams were offering that wasn't good enough? It doesn't say. Do you think one of them was on the level of Randolph for Reggie Evens? If Francis & Frye was *close* to his value then I doubt a Reggie Evens deal was appealing to them.

Yes because you clearly don't understand the NBA cap. Although they felt his value was higher it didn't get met which means they gave him away as I stated many moons ago. If Philly could fill the trade to match the dollars and send Portland a pick sure it would have been done IMO. They were looking for Future Cap space, young prospect(Jones), and TE. Oh and did you know since Philly is under the cap and salaries don't have to match we'd pick up a hefty TE in the process if we did the trade? So let's review it again...

Zach and 6(New York receives $10mil TE(which is like immediate cap space, we could sign a FA this summer(Monta Ellis) if we wanted with the $10mil.. expiring a yr from trade), 16 pick, $10mil in cap space

4

Reggie and 16(Philly receives cancer, albatross contract, chemistry killer and BPA at 6)

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-10-2008 12:56 AM]

Your trying to argue that no team was willing to give Randolph full value, But I am not argueing that. The arguement by me was allways if Portland had to give up assets in order to unload Randolph the way that we are supposedly being asked to.

Also that guys like Randolph even if they have baggage still hold more value than a team having to unload assets in order to trade him because he produces at a high level. Lafrentz & Dampier were & are guys that teams had to & would have to unload an asset in order to trade them. Randolph because he is still productive for a Reggie Evens straight up in a finacial move is a fair deal only because Randolph has baggage if Randoloph didn't have baggage then this wouldn't even be a discussion.

If Randolph had no baggage his value would be an expiring contract and a lottery pick or quality prospect.

Randolph young & highly productive with baggage is between a shorter contract & prospect or just a shorter contract in a financial move.

Randolph washed up and unproductive with a big contract would require us trading the #6 pick &/or other assets in order to move him.

Its that simple.
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Where in the history of the NBA has a 20 year old 20-10 C traded with a HIGH lottery pick for

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