Posted by King1:

Okay Bitty wrong on the Kobe I dont look at stats early in the year he was when I was griping now here are some other facts.
1. Since high school Zach has had run in with the law every year but one 2004 I believe
2. Portland is a better team without him
3. Knicks are a worse team with him.
4. 44% is atrocious for a big man to shoot.
5. Zach has a horrible contract and you base everything on stats.

No way he was shooting more then Kobe; Kobe typically shoots over 20 shots a game this was a low year for him.

1. Just another cheap shot here

2. After the information I provided about Portland while Zach was there you still refuse to even acknowledge it. See this is what I mean about bringing some facts to the table. If you want to debate that Zach should have preserved with a supporting cast of Jeff McInnis, Sebastian Telfair, Darius Miles, Bonzi Wells then by all means lets do it. Because as I blantantly pointed out to you the Blazers that we are seeing on this team was not the team during Zach's years with the exception of last season.

3. Oh god please enough already I thought you had such inside scoop and this is the most informative statement you can come up with? Seriously if you think the Knicks are doing bad because of Zach presence then your clueless. This team is terrible with or without Zach. Most of the players were lost when the whole Marbury scandal went down.

4. Actually he' shooting 45.8% which granted isn't great by any means but if Zach spent more time pounding the ball inside I think he could raise his percentage to at least 48% to 50%. See there's the big difference between me and you I like delve into a player and his game. Whereas you just provide this blanket statements that almost everyone says with explantion further in the basketball aspect.

5. I am going to break down the whole salary issue which you are not realizing.

Okay I'll take a player that I consider to be comparable in terms of skill and numbers. Pau Gasol and Jermaine O'Neal right now.

Currently Memphis is 8-22 okay now I realize before last season they made the playoffs a few times but we're talking about this season. So Pau Gasol's contract is like this 13, 15, 16, 17 okay. So does this seem like an appropriate value for a guy who puts up 17.8 points, 7.8 rebounds, and he shoots 48%.

Next Jermaine O'Neal the guy is hurt a lot and since Stephen Jackson and Harrington to left his team has been struggling granted they are currently a respectable 15-17 but not outstanding especially when you see the money this guy is making.
Currently his contract is 19, 21, 22 (thats franchise player money for people who don't know)for the next 3 seasons. And his numbers are 16.5, 7.7 rebounds, and he is shooting 44% (oh wait someone actually shoots worse then Zach how is that possible). So knowing the information on these two players would you say Zach's agent would be doing his job if he got him a contract of much lesser value?

Also what would you consider a fair amount of money just curious.


In terms of me only caring about stats whatever thats how you want to put fine. But I am not fooled by Jamal's numbers nor was a fooled by the numbers Eddy was putting up last season. And what makes him different then those two Jamal does not have the skill to be among the top fleet shooting guards or point guards for that matter in this league. He's incredibly athletic and quick but to me he's just not on that level because he relies a lot gimmick like ooooh the crossover and shooting errant jumpers. Eddy come on basic basketball will tell you that your center especially if he's your main vocal point needs to be able to rebound the ball. Thats just flat out laziness on Eddy's part. And right now he's given up on the season like he's done throughout most of his career underachieved with an occassional appearances of good basketball.

Though I absolutely agree that the numbers don't tell the whole story about a player but they can't be totally discounted either. For better or worse Zach's numbers in terms of scoring and rebounding are comparable to Tim Duncan, KG, and Chris Bosh. At the end of the day he's doing what he gets paid to do which is score and rebound. In the future IMHO I think Zach could be a valuable member of a successful Knicks team; now I could be dead wrong and the Knicks could continue to suck with no hope in sight. But thats a question we'll have to revisit if or when Isiah is fired.

A real GM and coach eill get rid of Zach because they will relaize they cant win with him. He put up number but doesnt win. Oneal has won and he is on the downside of his career now look at the guys above him. You think the Knicks can win with Zach?

As usual King you completely didn't address my post but yea the Gators are relevant to this conversation. When you want to talk let me know

How is it a cheap shot about his arrest record you address that. What I am trying to tell you team that play together win with lesser talent. You picked Gasol and a hurt Oneal. I am glad Zach is getting paid just doenst help the knicks because no one will take him in a trade and it gives us no flexibility. Why dont you say something about the three juvenile detentions and the DWI with pot.

I will ask two questions?
1. Do you think Zach is a person to build around for the Knicks?
2. Do you think Zach is a leader and a great team player?

Posted by King1:

Dominique Wilkins had numbers comparable to Bird and Magic but never won same with Zach he will never win and Zach hurt Eddy game and we competed last year.

Que?

Bird and Magic played with at least 2 other great all time players. Worthy, Jabbar, McHale, Parrish and a host of other big names and notable types like Scott and Johnson. Who were the best players Wilkens played with in his prime years? Kevin Willis? An over the hill Moses Malone?

Zach hasn't even played with so much as one all star level player since his 2nd or 3rd year in the league when he was 21 or 22 yrs old. And not surprisingly that was the last non-losing team he was on.

Posted by VDesai:

Bird and Magic played with at least 2 other great all time players. Worthy, Jabbar, McHale, Parrish and a host of other big names and notable types like Scott and Johnson. Who were the best players Wilkens played with in his prime years? Kevin Willis? An over the hill Moses Malone?

Zach hasn't even played with so much as one all star level player since his 2nd or 3rd year in the league when he was 21 or 22 yrs old. And not surprisingly that was the last non-losing team he was on.

I don't know people just aren't hearing this its either they just flat out ignore that Portland was a terrible team until very recently or they use the old "well he shouldn't made his teammates better" arguement. I gave a whole history about the guys in Portland and the lack of talent but of course Zach shouldn't have been carrying them to the playoffs. Some fans will always hate Zach and if the Knicks ever become successful with him here you can rest assure that fans like King will be gone.

Its like the old adage "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". Many fans when the Marbury trade went down (myself included) had a lot of hopes; we got a significant upgrade in talent and at the time he was putting up all-star esque numbers. Fast forward 3 years later and him and Isiah have totally dismantled this franchise. So I can understand fans being hestitant or flat out hating the Randolph trade.