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TMS
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12/8/2008  10:35 PM
Posted by jaydh:

I just don't know why any team would give up on a proven player like Billingsley at this point of his career, no matter the return. Sure the yanks and several other prospect loaded teams can make sweet offers, but if he's not available it doesn't really matter.

no one's saying they're looking to deal the guy... the reasoning is i don't trade away Cano for anything less than proven young pitching or a star player... Kemp is neither... we don't need to trade Cano for a guy w/his skillset IMO... it just doesn't help this team all that much to be worth the trouble.

& Finestrg, Kemp does not have good range in the OF... check his ZR ratings & you'll see what i'm talking about... Melky Cabrera's got a better range rating in fact than Kemp does & his arm is even better... defensively he's a downgrade from Melky & offensively he's not an upgrade over Cano... what's the point?

Yankees aren't trading Austin Jackson for Kemp either, so unless someone like Billingsley or another top pitching prospect is on the table, really there's nothing the Dodgers have that we would want.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-08-2008 7:37 PM]
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Finestrg
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12/8/2008  10:47 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by jaydh:

I just don't know why any team would give up on a proven player like Billingsley at this point of his career, no matter the return. Sure the yanks and several other prospect loaded teams can make sweet offers, but if he's not available it doesn't really matter.

no one's saying they're looking to deal the guy... the reasoning is i don't trade away Cano for anything less than proven young pitching or a star player... Kemp is neither... we don't need to trade Cano for a guy w/his skillset IMO... it just doesn't help this team all that much to be worth the trouble.

& Finestrg, Kemp does not have good range in the OF... check his ZR ratings & you'll see what i'm talking about... Melky Cabrera's got a better range rating in fact than Kemp does & his arm is even better... defensively he's a downgrade from Melky & offensively he's not an upgrade over Cano... what's the point?

Yankees aren't trading Austin Jackson for Kemp either, so unless someone like Billingsley or another top pitching prospect is on the table, really there's nothing the Dodgers have that we would want.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-08-2008 7:37 PM]

I didn't know you lived on the West Coast TMS... Anyway, I guess you'd know better than me if Kemp is or has the potential to be a complete player or not. I'm not a huge NL guy and was just going on stats and multiple hitting & fielding clips to get a feel for him. Still, if all of a sudden the Yanks lost out on Sabathia but were still fixated on Matt Kemp - I'd look to entice the Dodgers into including Billingsley and to get that ace with Kemp, I'd be willing to include just about anything short of Jesus Montero, Andrew Brackman and Dellin Betances. Fair to say you agree?

[Edited by - finestrg on 12-08-2008 10:48 PM]
VDesai
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12/8/2008  10:48 PM
I think the Cano stuff has been shot down.

Melky may be traded, but I think the Yankees are gonna have to be getting a superstar back to trade Cano.
TMS
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12/8/2008  10:56 PM
Posted by Finestrg:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by jaydh:

I just don't know why any team would give up on a proven player like Billingsley at this point of his career, no matter the return. Sure the yanks and several other prospect loaded teams can make sweet offers, but if he's not available it doesn't really matter.

no one's saying they're looking to deal the guy... the reasoning is i don't trade away Cano for anything less than proven young pitching or a star player... Kemp is neither... we don't need to trade Cano for a guy w/his skillset IMO... it just doesn't help this team all that much to be worth the trouble.

& Finestrg, Kemp does not have good range in the OF... check his ZR ratings & you'll see what i'm talking about... Melky Cabrera's got a better range rating in fact than Kemp does & his arm is even better... defensively he's a downgrade from Melky & offensively he's not an upgrade over Cano... what's the point?

Yankees aren't trading Austin Jackson for Kemp either, so unless someone like Billingsley or another top pitching prospect is on the table, really there's nothing the Dodgers have that we would want.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-08-2008 7:37 PM]

I didn't know you lived on the West Coast TMS... Anyway, I guess you'd know better than me if Kemp is or has the potential to be a complete player or not. I'm not a huge NL guy and was just going on stats and multiple hitting & fielding clips to get a feel for him. Still, if all of a sudden the Yanks lost out on Sabathia but were still fixated on Matt Kemp - I'd look to entice the Dodgers into including Billingsley and to get that ace with Kemp, I'd be willing to include just about anything short of Jesus Montero, Andrew Brackman and Dellin Betances. Fair to say you agree?

[Edited by - finestrg on 12-08-2008 10:48 PM]

i would sooner trade Cano for Andre Ethier than Kemp to tell u the truth... he's more of a fit for our current needs... plays a decent RF, gets on base & hits for power, is on a rookie contract payscale just like Kemp but doesn't strike out nearly as much, plus he's a lefty hitter who can easily hit 25+ HR's at YS, unlike Kemp who will struggle in YS's righty unfriendly ballpark... i wouldn't wanna give up Cano for him either but just saying...

if we're not getting back a top pitching talent or Russell Martin, there's nothing the Dodgers have that i would want if i'm Brian Cashman... just MHO... as for your proposal, i would give up any thing we have short of Joba for Billingsley... that includes Hughes, Kennedy, Brackman, Betances, Montero or Jackson, but obviously not all of them.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-08-2008 7:58 PM]
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VDesai
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12/8/2008  11:01 PM
I doubt they'd throw in Billingsley or Kershaw, but Scott Elbert might be someone the Yanks could get back.
TMS
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12/8/2008  11:04 PM
didn't know you lived on the West Coast TMS

yeah i moved out to LA last NOV... been having to watch Dodger & Padres games cuz i can't get the YES channel out here... i have to watch my bro's DVR'd games after he watches them off my Slingbox if i want my Yankees fix now.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-08-2008 8:07 PM]
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TMS
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12/8/2008  11:06 PM
Posted by VDesai:

I doubt they'd throw in Billingsley or Kershaw, but Scott Elbert might be someone the Yanks could get back.

they rushed Elbert to the majors way too early... he was doing pretty well in AA but the sudden jump to the major hitters set his development back if u ask me... they shoulda given him time in AAA to get his bearings at the very least before they threw him to the big dawg hitters.
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TMS
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12/8/2008  11:25 PM
another option is maybe seeing what the Pirates would want for Adam LaRoche... he's making a $5 mil contract that they might be looking to shed... if we offered them Melky, Ian Kennedy & 2 of our 2nd tier pitching prospects like JB Cox & Kevin Whelan perhaps they might be interested? just tossing some names out there... LaRoche isn't yet old at 29, he plays a very good 1B defensively & hits for pretty good power for a corner IFer... his strikeout totals are a bit high but that's really the only negative on this guy... he's just a very solid ballplayer all around & IMO would fit in nicely in the Yankees' clubhouse... plus he's a lefty hitter who's put up a 30 HR season in ATL before so he could easily hit 30+ in YS... he's 1 of those "gamer" type players that we definitely could use more of... if we could land him w/o giving up any of our elite prospects it's a no brainer if u ask me.

i would LOVE to get my hands on Nate McClouth but i don't see the Pirates wanting to trade that guy unless we just absolutely blew them away w/an offer.
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VDesai
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12/8/2008  11:30 PM
I think Swisher is about the same as LaRoche
TMS
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12/8/2008  11:36 PM
LaRoche hits for a much better average... anyway u can play Swish in CF... just saying if we miss out on Tex then there are other options out there for 1B that we can look at... LaRoche would be a very cost effective solution over targetting guys like Adam Dunn, etc.
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VDesai
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12/8/2008  11:45 PM
Not to concerned with average as Swisher exceeds him in OBP and they are roughly the same at OPS. Dunn is definitely better than LaRoche....the guy is a virtual lock for 40 homers.
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12/8/2008  11:52 PM
Posted by Finestrg:
Posted by jaydh:

I just don't know why any team would give up on a proven player like Billingsley at this point of his career, no matter the return. Sure the yanks and several other prospect loaded teams can make sweet offers, but if he's not available it doesn't really matter.

I guess it would all depend on what their thoughts are on A-Jax, Hughes and Kennedy (Hughes and Kennedy are from California btw). Expanding the trade to include such names makes the package A LOT more valuable and enticing if you ask me. A-Jax is one of the better position player prospects in the game right now and Hughes is probably still highly thought-of, coming off the nice showing in Sept. and recently in the AFL. Kennedy's very young and at least has some value as a projected middle-of-the-rotation starter. And this all would be after LA hypothetically grabbed possibly the best pitcher in the game through FA in Sabathia. Ask yourself - if you were a Dodger fan, how upset could you possibly be if you lost Billingsley and Kemp but gained Sabathia, Cano, Austin Jackson AND Hughes or Kennedy? I don't think I'd be that upset. I'd probably be thinking I just improved my team with that outcome....

[Edited by - finestrg on 12-08-2008 10:21 PM]

I would look at gaining sabathia differently since he's not in the deal. The dodgers were in the playoffs and probably expect to be there again so i don't think they would want to weaken their ML team(especially pitching). But, in that deal I see(as a dodger fan) we upgraded one of the toughest positions to upgrade, but the downside is now you have to rely on Andruw Jones while trading a future ace(who has completed a full season and put up good numbers and still only 24) for a high potential yet injury risk in Hughes and a very unproven Kennedy.

It's a good deal talent wise, but like I said though if he's not on the block... It's like David Wright, he's not getting traded for anything unless its ridiculously lopsided.
Finestrg
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12/8/2008  11:52 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by VDesai:

I doubt they'd throw in Billingsley or Kershaw, but Scott Elbert might be someone the Yanks could get back.

they rushed Elbert to the majors way too early... he was doing pretty well in AA but the sudden jump to the major hitters set his development back if u ask me... they shoulda given him time in AAA to get his bearings at the very least before they threw him to the big dawg hitters.

Isn't Elbert a reliever? Is he a converted starter from the minors? With Marte resigned & the emergence of Phil Coke how does this guy Elbert fit? Don't know anything about him to be honest.

Regarding Sabathia, I just don't get a good feel for getting this guy at this point. You just get the feeling that if any team, esp. a NL team or a California team in either league offers him a little over $100 mil., he's gone. The MLB.com article concerning CC's alleged talk with Dodgers' GM Ned Colletti doesn't bode well if you ask me, not to mention the fact that he hasn't even acknowledged the Yankee offer up to this point. Another bad sign CC's not coming here - Cash is now said to be going after AJ Burnett hard:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081208&content_id=3706865&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

So we're probably on the verge of making AJ an offer, probably with the guaranteed 5th year that he wants...

If Cash is really interested in Matt Kemp then it only makes sense to attempt to expand the deal some in an attempt to also land a Dodger pitcher as well. That's why I'm speculating whether there's a way we could get Billingsley and what it would take, hypothetically speaking. If Sabathia doesn't wind up signing with us I'd still like to see Cashman and the Yankees stick to their guns and get a frontline starter or two this off-season. Clay Kershaw looks like the real deal - he's so young but has tremendous upside - lefty that throws 95/96 with a big curveball. Maybe if Billingsley can't be had, maybe try getting this kid Kershaw. Again, same type of trade maybe scaled back slightly subbing the unproven Kershaw for Billingsley - Cano/A-Jax and possibly Kennedy for Kershaw and Kemp - no Hughes. Or maybe sub Hughes and Cabrera for A-Jax. I might be interested in that. If we lost out on CC and couldn't get Billingsley, but came away with Nick Swisher, AJ Burnett, Clayton Kershaw & Matt Kemp with a possiblity to also get involved more heavily in the Mark Teixeira sweepstakes, that could work. Plus Derek Lowe and bringing back Pettitte still remain realistic possiblities as well. That wouldn't be terrible.


[Edited by - finestrg on 12-09-2008 12:12 AM]
TMS
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12/8/2008  11:54 PM
Dunn is a worse defensive 1B than Giambi dude... aside from the fact the strikes out half the times he makes an out, he's nothing more than a DH if he's playing in the AL... he would command a big contract to boot... like i said before i would stay far away from Adam Dunn... it would make more sense to just hold onto Jason than sign Dunn to a contract.
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TMS
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12/9/2008  12:03 AM
Posted by Finestrg:

Another bad sign CC's not coming here - Cash is now said to be going after AJ Burnett hard:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081208&content_id=3706865&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

a bit reassuring that he's at least meeting w/other agents but i'll feel a lot better once someone gets signed... 5 years for AJB is a HUGE risk tho.
Cashman said that he is ready to greet any player who wishes to talk with the Yankees.

"I'm more than open," Cashman said. "I prefer meeting with players with their agents instead of doing it the other way. You get a better sense of people and it's a better process for me."

In that vein, Cashman said that Sabathia's deliberate process is not hampering the Yankees.

"We're dealing with other free agents at the same time," Cashman said. "We hope to engage some clubs while we're here. Obviously, today is Day 1 and we have needs we have to fill. I can tell you we're not waiting, per se, for CC. We're trying to affect change in our roster in a positive way with quality additions, but it's just been a slow winter so far."

[Edited by - TMS on 12-08-2008 9:08 PM]
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jaydh
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12/9/2008  12:05 AM
Atlanta is the high bidder with $60mil/4yrs, i don't think the Yanks have to even go 5, just more per year.
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12/9/2008  7:11 AM
Pettitte rejected a 1 year, $10 mil offer from the Yankees?! That's a more than fair offer.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 12-09-2008 07:13 AM]
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12/9/2008  10:44 AM
There are reports that the Yankees are going to offer Sheets a 2 year deal for $30M. Not a bad deal, don't know if he'd take just a 2 year deal though. If the guy is healthy, he's at least a #2 starter. He threw 200 innings last year but had to be shutdown at the end of the year. I'd rather sign him for 2 than Burnett for 5.
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12/9/2008  11:01 AM
Posted by islesfan:

There are reports that the Yankees are going to offer Sheets a 2 year deal for $30M. Not a bad deal, don't know if he'd take just a 2 year deal though. If the guy is healthy, he's at least a #2 starter. He threw 200 innings last year but had to be shutdown at the end of the year. I'd rather sign him for 2 than Burnett for 5.

Wow that is HORRIBLE. I want absolutely nothing to do with Ben Sheets, nothing AT ALL. The guy is ALWAYS injured.
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islesfan
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12/9/2008  11:05 AM
I think we're almost at the point where we need to withdraw our offer to CC and move on. The guy obviously doesn't want to play in NY and will only do so for the money. Take the money, add a few years and sign Texeira.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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