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[Game Thread 4/18/23] Game 2 at Cavs 7:30PM, TNT & MSG
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BigDaddyG
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4/18/2023  10:23 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Clean wrote:Next season we need actual shot making. Having our offense being based on getting offensive rebounds won't be good enough the further in the playoffs we get.

We have two starters in RJ. and Grimes, without a reliable midrange game. They might be able to get by without one in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.

Grimes is a good passer off of penetration. But he needs plays to do that

Has to be able to do that off of improvisation as well.

Grimes Achilles heel has always been 2 fold —- not fully confident and no pull-up mid-range which is remarkable for a guy with his stroke. That said he has shown skills but the offense with Barrett/Randle mostly leaves him standing without the ball all game.

RJ - there is no hope of a mid range coming —- ship has left the dock, port and country.

RJ has one off of pivot moves, but he doesnt have a floater, or a pullup jumper from midrange. We watched him go mostly to that same drive that whiffs too often.

Also too often uses a Melo-like amount of time to get his shot off, when he isnt that good. Which is why he needs a midrange, to get a shot off faster.

LOL - there was about 9 minutes left and we were down ~20 and RJ was dribbling around trying to find his shot and I’m thinking the entire 4th quarter is going to run out.

LOL yup, was thinking the same thing.


Well, they're heading back home and tomorrow is another day. We'll see what new tricks Tom learned and take it from there. Hopefully it leads to less minutes for RJ. But who takes them?
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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ramtour420
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4/18/2023  10:53 PM
Now the pressure is on us to defend home court. That's how the playoffs are won. This is what it's going to take
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
BigDaddyG
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4/18/2023  11:14 PM
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
BigDaddyG
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4/18/2023  11:18 PM
What is the definition of insanity? Thibs has to find ways to get Randle more quick hitting opportunities to the hoop. Atlanta just loaded up on him and Cleveland, who has even better big defenders, is doing the same thing.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
joec32033
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4/18/2023  11:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/18/2023  11:34 PM
LivingLegend wrote:
joec32033 wrote:I would so love to blame the refs, but not a single Knick is clear of this loss.

Pathetic and they definitely didn't make it easier for themselves. More turnovers in the second quarter than they average in a game. No se se of urgency and the defensive intensity wasn't there. It was like they figured they could just walk in and coast to a win and Cleveland punched them in the mouth.

Very disappointing.

Same here — felt the whistle was mostly one way until score out of hand BUT we were absolutely outplayed and while their adjustments seemed to work we had no adjustments.

Dont't think our adjustments would have worked. Every single Knick played like ****. I saw you were commenting a lot about RJ-which he defeinately needs to do something. I personally believe he is better than this but he is definately not showing it- but I don't think anything they would have done would have worked. Honestly, the one thing I would have done when I saw the direction of this game is I would have played Rose and Fournier. Nothing else was working, and no one else earned their time tonight so I would have thrown them out there with whoever. RJ, IQ and Obi looked scared/apathetic. Grimes looks tentative and regardless of my opinion on him, this is the exact type of game he could have made a statement (and build off those free throws from Saturday) because he looks the most ready for this series out of the 4.

They all were throwing the ball away, missing shots they normally make, playing **** defense. They got punched in the mouth and didn't match the physicality Cleveland threw at them. I did think the whistles were pretty ****ty early on, but just keep playing your game. Let the refs foul out the whole damn team. Then let them explain to the NBA how there can be so many calls against one team (that's what I felt anyway).

Right now I think this team is feeling a certain way about themselves and they just aren't there yet. You can't just throw a switch, and you can't be fake tough. Guys were rattled. Cleveland didn't fold in the first quarter and the Knicks thought they would fold and they didn't.

Cleveland's adjustment to double Brunson was smart. and using Mitchell as a diversion for Garland was a good move too.

Tip your cap, move on. Games like this happen. Hope they recover.

PS.

Please stop bitching about calls. At least cut down a little. It is not a good look.

~You can't run from who you are.~
Clean
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4/18/2023  11:50 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:What is the definition of insanity? Thibs has to find ways to get Randle more quick hitting opportunities to the hoop. Atlanta just loaded up on him and Cleveland, who has even better big defenders, is doing the same thing.

Stop giving him the ball to create. He has always been inefficient but we continue to do it. He needs to be only a finisher.
BigDaddyG
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4/18/2023  11:54 PM
Clean wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:What is the definition of insanity? Thibs has to find ways to get Randle more quick hitting opportunities to the hoop. Atlanta just loaded up on him and Cleveland, who has even better big defenders, is doing the same thing.

Stop giving him the ball to create. He has always been inefficient but we continue to do it. He needs to be only a finisher.

Maybe start iHart and try to promote more ball movement? I know it's a little crazy, but at least it's something.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
LivingLegend
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4/19/2023  12:08 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Clean wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:What is the definition of insanity? Thibs has to find ways to get Randle more quick hitting opportunities to the hoop. Atlanta just loaded up on him and Cleveland, who has even better big defenders, is doing the same thing.

Stop giving him the ball to create. He has always been inefficient but we continue to do it. He needs to be only a finisher.

Maybe start iHart and try to promote more ball movement? I know it's a little crazy, but at least it's something.

You don’t trust greasy fingers Mitch to initiate some offense?

He is really good just never gets the chance.
Alpha1971
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4/19/2023  2:42 AM
Can't panic. Just play better.
blkexec
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4/19/2023  7:06 AM
blkexec wrote:
blkexec wrote:I would sit hart and put in deuce. I rather lose with deuce playing vs re-injury to hart. We need him to win the series, not the game. Cavs did what they said they would do. Seems like whoever hits first wins. Plus the refs suck and are unpredictable. They call a foul when there’s no foul and don’t call a foul when there’s a foul. On both ends.

And you wonder why I’ve been on thibs. In game adjustments

It was clear very early on, that he should’ve say hart for the rest of the game. We need him healthy for the season. And he should’ve put in deuce to slow down garland. Garland is similar to Donovan Mitchell. If he makes two in a row, especially from deep, you better change up your defensive scheme or it’s a wrap.

The good news is both garland and Mitchell will not be that hot at the same time. They usually take turns. So we need a healthy hart for those matchups. After hart I think deuce is the next man up. IQ doesn’t look like he has it going on both ends. Maybe that changes game 3. We will see.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Chandler
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4/19/2023  8:57 AM
i think the Knicks need to get IQ out there more. Cavs are keying on Brunson and Randle and RJ are unreliable at initiating offense.

also one or more of IQ, Grimes and RJ needs to start getting hot.

Knicks started out great. Then Garland got hot to get them back in it, then the Cavs got very physical.

Oh yes, Obi needs to stop being a *****. At the moment he's a puss at both ends of the floor.

(5)(7)
SergioNYK
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4/19/2023  9:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/19/2023  9:14 AM
We got bitch slapped and they took our lunch money and stuffed us in a locker. No other way to describe that game.

I honestly was not expecting to win going into this game but this was probably the worst way we could have lost. Cavs are a good team and give them credit for backing up their talk. Garland was incredible and their entire team brought it defensively. Especially in that second quarter. We couldn't even set a simple pick or dribble the ball without turning it over. LeVert was a monster at both ends and they just outhustled and outplayed us.

I thought Thibs did a bad job in this game. No adjustments made and a bad decision that could have ended the series by leaving Randle in the game late down 23. I don't care if Randle says he wanted to stay in and find rhythm! We were not even sure he was going to play game one! You do not risk one of your best players with an injury with the game over! And I don't have any issues with Allen fouling Randle on that play. It's the playoffs! Awful job by Thibs!

Randle shot 8/20 which isn't terrible but the turnovers and poor defense need to improve. His defensive effort in that second quarter was inexcusable! Brunson had an off game but not worried about him. He'll bounce back.

But I'm very concerned about the rest of the team. RJ, IQ and Grimes need to wake up. They are shooting 25% from the fiend combined and 20% from three! That is not going to get it done! I hate to admit it but I've lost faith and trust in RJ. I feel the same way about him shooting the ball or with the ball in his hands as I did with Elf, Ntilikina and Jared Jeffries. I immediately get a sick feeling and want him to pass it right away. And it sucks because I did like RJ a lot and rooted for him to succeed but he **** the bed. But I still have faith and trust in IQ. He showed signs towards the end of the game. I think he'll have big games at the Garden. Not too sure about Grimes. It's his first playoffs. I'd like for him to be more aggressive like he was in those last few games in the regular season.

We got a split on the road which was the goal but we're going to need to play a lot better at the Garden and the rest of the series if we're going to win this. Cavs are a good team! I think some fans and media have disrespected them and underestimated them and severely overrated this Knicks team.
Fully expect Spida to channel Reggie Miller and strive to have his Garden villain moment. And the Cavs will get up for these games too. Thibs needs to make some major adjustments, especially offensively. Cavs are too good defensively to continue this slow it down one on one pace. And these players need to show some pride and bring it the rest of the series on a physical level. Can't get bullied like that!
martin
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4/19/2023  9:19 AM
LivingLegend wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Clean wrote:Next season we need actual shot making. Having our offense being based on getting offensive rebounds won't be good enough the further in the playoffs we get.

We have two starters in RJ. and Grimes, without a reliable midrange game. They might be able to get by without one in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.

Grimes is a good passer off of penetration. But he needs plays to do that

Has to be able to do that off of improvisation as well.

Grimes Achilles heel has always been 2 fold —- not fully confident and no pull-up mid-range which is remarkable for a guy with his stroke. That said he has shown skills but the offense with Barrett/Randle mostly leaves him standing without the ball all game.

RJ - there is no hope of a mid range coming —- ship has left the dock, port and country.

I see something entirely different. When you are new to the league, you focus on the important things first, and especially for this particular team, they have emphasized rim and 3 point shots for Grimes.

You shouldn't expect more from him at this point.

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martin
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4/19/2023  9:23 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:What is the definition of insanity? Thibs has to find ways to get Randle more quick hitting opportunities to the hoop. Atlanta just loaded up on him and Cleveland, who has even better big defenders, is doing the same thing.

For me, this is why Randle is at best a #3 on a playoff team. Dude can bring it in the regular season and can beast against most all team. But he is easy to plan against when you have time and have a really good defense.

Randle struggles mentally, and that should be no surprise to any of us. No knock on Randle but he is not elite in that capacity.

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Clean
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4/19/2023  9:46 AM
martin wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:What is the definition of insanity? Thibs has to find ways to get Randle more quick hitting opportunities to the hoop. Atlanta just loaded up on him and Cleveland, who has even better big defenders, is doing the same thing.

For me, this is why Randle is at best a #3 on a playoff team. Dude can bring it in the regular season and can beast against most all team. But he is easy to plan against when you have time and have a really good defense.

Randle struggles mentally, and that should be no surprise to any of us. No knock on Randle but he is not elite in that capacity.

Come next season people will get blinded by the 40pt games and forget how every playoffs he jumps off a cliff. Him and RJ did a lot to bring us from where we were. However, if we want to go further than where we are now they have to be removed from our team.

Our youth is not looking good now either but I want to see them in games where they actually can get touches to see if it was like the regular season where they play better in a system with more ball movement or if they can't cut it in the playoff either. At least they still have the youth excuse.
VDesai
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4/19/2023  9:48 AM
RJ is playing with no plan on offense. He is capable of better, but he gets into modes like this. He is just throwing the ball at the basket. No touch, no spin, no finesse. He is dribbling with no plan. We have seen him get on streaks where he cannot be stopped in the paint, and then he does this....
LivingLegend
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4/19/2023  9:52 AM
martin wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Clean wrote:Next season we need actual shot making. Having our offense being based on getting offensive rebounds won't be good enough the further in the playoffs we get.

We have two starters in RJ. and Grimes, without a reliable midrange game. They might be able to get by without one in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.

Grimes is a good passer off of penetration. But he needs plays to do that

Has to be able to do that off of improvisation as well.

Grimes Achilles heel has always been 2 fold —- not fully confident and no pull-up mid-range which is remarkable for a guy with his stroke. That said he has shown skills but the offense with Barrett/Randle mostly leaves him standing without the ball all game.

RJ - there is no hope of a mid range coming —- ship has left the dock, port and country.

I see something entirely different. When you are new to the league, you focus on the important things first, and especially for this particular team, they have emphasized rim and 3 point shots for Grimes.

You shouldn't expect more from him at this point.

Fair point but I say the staff wants good shots and Grimes is passing up a bunch of good shots because he doesn’t have a go-to pull up in his bag. See RJ - similar issue but RJ is a lost cause on a pull up.
martin
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4/19/2023  9:56 AM
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:What is the definition of insanity? Thibs has to find ways to get Randle more quick hitting opportunities to the hoop. Atlanta just loaded up on him and Cleveland, who has even better big defenders, is doing the same thing.

For me, this is why Randle is at best a #3 on a playoff team. Dude can bring it in the regular season and can beast against most all team. But he is easy to plan against when you have time and have a really good defense.

Randle struggles mentally, and that should be no surprise to any of us. No knock on Randle but he is not elite in that capacity.

Come next season people will get blinded by the 40pt games and forget how every playoffs he jumps off a cliff. Him and RJ did a lot to bring us from where we were. However, if we want to go further than where we are now they have to be removed from our team.

Our youth is not looking good now either but I want to see them in games where they actually can get touches to see if it was like the regular season where they play better in a system with more ball movement or if they can't cut it in the playoff either. At least they still have the youth excuse.

Randle has been hurt and was off for 3 weeks?

IDK, his mental errors are definitely frustrating but there are a ton of plays I saw where when he is 100%, he performs differently.

I'm not writing Randle off as perhaps some others may. Even guys like Dirk struggled in league when they graduated to new levels. Randle barely scratching playoff picture while being surrounded by players who are in the same playoff newbie category.

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fishmike
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4/19/2023  10:14 AM
martin wrote:
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:What is the definition of insanity? Thibs has to find ways to get Randle more quick hitting opportunities to the hoop. Atlanta just loaded up on him and Cleveland, who has even better big defenders, is doing the same thing.

For me, this is why Randle is at best a #3 on a playoff team. Dude can bring it in the regular season and can beast against most all team. But he is easy to plan against when you have time and have a really good defense.

Randle struggles mentally, and that should be no surprise to any of us. No knock on Randle but he is not elite in that capacity.

Come next season people will get blinded by the 40pt games and forget how every playoffs he jumps off a cliff. Him and RJ did a lot to bring us from where we were. However, if we want to go further than where we are now they have to be removed from our team.

Our youth is not looking good now either but I want to see them in games where they actually can get touches to see if it was like the regular season where they play better in a system with more ball movement or if they can't cut it in the playoff either. At least they still have the youth excuse.

Randle has been hurt and was off for 3 weeks?

IDK, his mental errors are definitely frustrating but there are a ton of plays I saw where when he is 100%, he performs differently.

I'm not writing Randle off as perhaps some others may. Even guys like Dirk struggled in league when they graduated to new levels. Randle barely scratching playoff picture while being surrounded by players who are in the same playoff newbie category.

idk why every other team's players are allowed to mature and get better with experience but after 6 playoff games or 2 playoff games "we know what we have here."

I will say I believe the FO and coaching staff have it mostly right. Roster still needs work and much of the squad is young. 5th seed team with minimal to no playoff experience. Sometimes you gotta take some lumps. I hope we bounce back

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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4/19/2023  10:17 AM
obviously a terrible game but the Knicks missed a 100 shots and beat themselves. I expect them to bounce back and game 3 to be another dogfight
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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[Game Thread 4/18/23] Game 2 at Cavs 7:30PM, TNT & MSG
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