martin wrote:Has Drummond done anything in the playoffs yet? I havent watched any of that series

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I never got the hype for their offseason, but once AD and Lebron went down with their injuries it was all over weeks ago- didn't understand why so many writers had them pegged to beat the Suns, almost unquestioningly! Wonder what they do this offseason, they're a mes at the moment and likely Schroeder is leaving.

smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:Has Drummond done anything in the playoffs yet? I havent watched any of that series

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I never got the hype for their offseason, but once AD and Lebron went down with their injuries it was all over weeks ago- didn't understand why so many writers had them pegged to beat the Suns, almost unquestioningly! Wonder what they do this offseason, they're a mes at the moment and likely Schroeder is leaving.

Lebron had them 2nd seeded before he got hurt. Get AD back on the court and some rhythm/chemistry and they were defending champ. With them back healthy and Lebron on the court even if not 100% I suppose you don’t bet against it. Obviously Lakers got lower seed, Lebron is not right, AD is not right and they finished the season having to play in. Both finals teams from last seasons got bounced. Covid? Short compressed season? INjuries? Luck? Championship run took the steam out? Maybe all of it. That Miami was a mess might not be so coincidental. They are a young team and also did not get it together. At the same time culture shift and no bubble might have energized Knicks beyond.

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Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

xavier wrote:

PresIke wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=63018&page=15

PresIke wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

PresIke wrote:So who's the signing you make this summer now that you'r seeing this?

Can Lonzo and DRose play together?

Is he even the ideal answer?

I don't see Lonzo making a difference this series. We need someone who can create in the half-court. I don't see any viable options this year in FA.

That's what I was wondering too.
AND the lack of options in FA is not ideal.
Is there even a trade to be had that isn't problematic?
My secret dream: Dame Lillard
but we'd have to give up the damn farm

Lillard is great, no one except Curry is so lethal from anywhere in the opposing half of the field. But there are two problems. First, Portland just isn’t a team that believes in classic rebuilding and tanking so I don’t believe they would trade him at all. They will simply try to rearrange the pieces around him as long as he can carry the team. Second, if they miraculously decided to reset, you know they would be looking for RJ, IQ and all the picks and swaps we can give them. And the question is whether that would be enough.

Did you notice that the games in this series that Lillard really goes off, Portland loses? Small sample size, I know but when everyone, even Melo (HIYA NALOD!), goes off around him, they win. I like Dame's game immensely better than West-brook-massive-emptystats-world, but they sometimes seem to have the same affect on their teammates; everyone else gets mesmerized and nobody else really helps out.

Selling the entire farm and future picks for someone who can't really carry a much, much more talented team than we have right now, is not the way to do things. IMHO

So you finally have come around to understand why the Melo trade all so many years was not in knicks best longer term interest despite his great ability to score points? That he could not carry the team on his back as one would have hoped? As it was hyped? As the Knicks sold it to fans as the “Savior”? I’m glad you finally see the light. You can love Melo and still see it as it was. nobody will deny your affection and make you take down the shrine in your man cave. We just grow and learn like everybody else.
But........
sometimes its the price you pay and how much is left on the roster after you do a mega deal. Lakers over paid for AD but got a chip. You can do that when you get Lebron for Free.
If Kawahi said “Get Lillard, I’ll come” then you have to look at your roster in terms of “Do i have enough to win in the next two years”.
I agree its intriguing but I don’t like it like that. Lakers got a cheap chip. Clippers are on the verge of the abyss if Kawahi leaves and they can’t replicate a haul for PG13. He had a rather good year so its possible.
Randle series had a familiar look to it. Looked like an allstar trying to carry his team in the playoffs that was not as good as it was in the regular season. We have seen this many times. Portland over the years wth Dame, Giannis in Milwaukee, Melo in NY (Not with Nuggs), Wilt Chamberlin pre 76ers, etc...........Its not really the player, its the team around him. Wilt when he was at his most dominant only one a single chip in PHilly. The buzz saw that was Celtics were a TEAM. That too is an old story that TEAM can beat a single star.
this is what makes Lebrons run so phenomenal. I know, he is not “Jordan” but his run to carry mediocre teams to the finals only to lose is really a feat itself. But we don’t celebrate “Losers”. so be it.
Melo, Giannis and Randle we see as stained because they can’t do what we want them to. Giannis is still in the game and might come thru this year with a better team around him.
Nets for obvious reasons on paper have to be the favorite. with a limited fan base and a team that really has not played much together its a starphuch chip. While ATL has many new faces this year its youth core is organic and that is attractive. I hope the city of ATL really gets behind its team and becomes a better basketball town. New ownership has done well. They can’t feel too bad about Doncic as Trae has fulfilled his value.
Do I want Dame? Can I keep RJ? That matters. In fact, tell me what we look like in the aftermath and then I’d render an opinion. I’ll still root for them of course. They love Dame in Portland. I’d out it comes to him leaving unless he requests it.
I rooted for Melo to succeed. Can’t say I loved the guy before he came to NY but I appreciated the talent. Hated the deal but not the player. Glad JROD you now understand and agree with me.

Was glad you could work in a Brooklyn reference, even if it only further highlights what Melo never had here in NY.

Glad you can also say that it wasn't Melo, but the lack of a team around him when he was here.

Even if it did happen, I don't see Kawhi and Lillard winning a chip here by themselves, as Randle would probably be gone. Portland is going to rape us like a two dollar ho on Friday night, and all these actually quality parts and picks and pieces we have will go up like smoke. To use the neverending Triple mirror test, what is it going to take to get Dame? Randle, RJ, IQ, Mitch and picks? What else would Portland even sniff at? Do we really compare that haul to Gallo, RayRay, Chandler and Mozgov and picks? Seriously? I'm hoping you're not seeing a trade like that as equal, or even in the same neighborhood. Or solar system. I'll not waste typing comparing the former to the latter.

Not sure I see Randle as stained. Not after this season. I was all fanboy expecting a much better showing, just on defense alone, than what we got against Atlanta, but Randle rallied the yoots and the vets around him all season long and we gave the rest of the league fits, even during losses. Can't complain, even if we all do anyway. Fandom be what it is.

Again, I'd like to get Dame, but not at the cost of the yoots we have. Unfortunately, we don't have much else to offer Portland, so I don't see that happening unless Steven A suddenly starts running Leon's life. Not only that, but what would Thibs / Dame be like? Dame's not much on D, if anything. All that offense takes a toll on what's left for the other end of the floor. Would be intriguing to see how that would work out. Dame ain't Jimmy Butler, but who knows if it would go.

So we spend yet another off season reading bizarro trade scenarios that never happen. I look forward to BRIGGS' offerings.

I just can’t bring myself to root for Dallas though….

BigDaddyG wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Clips beat Mavs to bring a game 7. So as a Knicks fan do you hope LA falls because of the slight hope Leonard wil sour and becomes Knick?

I just can’t bring myself to root for Dallas though….

I feel safe saying that we won the trade. KP isn't even blocking shots. If we're using KP as a barometer, then Randle definitely deserves a max deal.

I’m actually starting to feel bad about how far he has fallen. He’s regressed so much and I have no idea how they move on from him.

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martin wrote:

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and Phil has like 25% of those rings as the coach1.

Chandler wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

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I’ve watched two games. Somethings not right w him. Must be his knees. No movement

Bringing in boban is very telling. KP c ant protect the rim better than immobile boban??

Every player and injury is different but I thought his last meniscus injury recovery this past offseason was unusually loooooonnnnngggggg.

Something else going on with him in that knee that is probably not public.

KnickDanger wrote:Clips beat Mavs to bring a game 7. So as a Knicks fan do you hope LA falls because of the slight hope Leonard will sour and becomes a Knick?

Definitely the latter. Go Dallas! I dislike KP intensely for being a traitor, but I cannot help but be in awe of Luka. And anything that gets us Kawhi is good by me.

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

xavier wrote:

PresIke wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=63018&page=15

PresIke wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

PresIke wrote:So who's the signing you make this summer now that you'r seeing this?

Can Lonzo and DRose play together?

Is he even the ideal answer?

I don't see Lonzo making a difference this series. We need someone who can create in the half-court. I don't see any viable options this year in FA.

That's what I was wondering too.
AND the lack of options in FA is not ideal.
Is there even a trade to be had that isn't problematic?
My secret dream: Dame Lillard
but we'd have to give up the damn farm

Lillard is great, no one except Curry is so lethal from anywhere in the opposing half of the field. But there are two problems. First, Portland just isn’t a team that believes in classic rebuilding and tanking so I don’t believe they would trade him at all. They will simply try to rearrange the pieces around him as long as he can carry the team. Second, if they miraculously decided to reset, you know they would be looking for RJ, IQ and all the picks and swaps we can give them. And the question is whether that would be enough.

Did you notice that the games in this series that Lillard really goes off, Portland loses? Small sample size, I know but when everyone, even Melo (HIYA NALOD!), goes off around him, they win. I like Dame's game immensely better than West-brook-massive-emptystats-world, but they sometimes seem to have the same affect on their teammates; everyone else gets mesmerized and nobody else really helps out.

Selling the entire farm and future picks for someone who can't really carry a much, much more talented team than we have right now, is not the way to do things. IMHO

So you finally have come around to understand why the Melo trade all so many years was not in knicks best longer term interest despite his great ability to score points? That he could not carry the team on his back as one would have hoped? As it was hyped? As the Knicks sold it to fans as the “Savior”? I’m glad you finally see the light. You can love Melo and still see it as it was. nobody will deny your affection and make you take down the shrine in your man cave. We just grow and learn like everybody else.
But........
sometimes its the price you pay and how much is left on the roster after you do a mega deal. Lakers over paid for AD but got a chip. You can do that when you get Lebron for Free.
If Kawahi said “Get Lillard, I’ll come” then you have to look at your roster in terms of “Do i have enough to win in the next two years”.
I agree its intriguing but I don’t like it like that. Lakers got a cheap chip. Clippers are on the verge of the abyss if Kawahi leaves and they can’t replicate a haul for PG13. He had a rather good year so its possible.
Randle series had a familiar look to it. Looked like an allstar trying to carry his team in the playoffs that was not as good as it was in the regular season. We have seen this many times. Portland over the years wth Dame, Giannis in Milwaukee, Melo in NY (Not with Nuggs), Wilt Chamberlin pre 76ers, etc...........Its not really the player, its the team around him. Wilt when he was at his most dominant only one a single chip in PHilly. The buzz saw that was Celtics were a TEAM. That too is an old story that TEAM can beat a single star.
this is what makes Lebrons run so phenomenal. I know, he is not “Jordan” but his run to carry mediocre teams to the finals only to lose is really a feat itself. But we don’t celebrate “Losers”. so be it.
Melo, Giannis and Randle we see as stained because they can’t do what we want them to. Giannis is still in the game and might come thru this year with a better team around him.
Nets for obvious reasons on paper have to be the favorite. with a limited fan base and a team that really has not played much together its a starphuch chip. While ATL has many new faces this year its youth core is organic and that is attractive. I hope the city of ATL really gets behind its team and becomes a better basketball town. New ownership has done well. They can’t feel too bad about Doncic as Trae has fulfilled his value.
Do I want Dame? Can I keep RJ? That matters. In fact, tell me what we look like in the aftermath and then I’d render an opinion. I’ll still root for them of course. They love Dame in Portland. I’d out it comes to him leaving unless he requests it.
I rooted for Melo to succeed. Can’t say I loved the guy before he came to NY but I appreciated the talent. Hated the deal but not the player. Glad JROD you now understand and agree with me.

It's amazing that all these years later, Nalod still has no concept of the reality of what happened with Melo. What did we get Melo for? 4 bit players and 2 draft picks, only one of which that managed to turn into anything, from a team that was going nowhere (and had been going nowhere) near the playoffs as fast as Pringles could run Stat into the ground.
What are we now discussing trading to get Dame? Major parts of a team that got the number 4 seed out of nowhere. But leave it to Nalod to bring the cold, freezer burnt Melo hate to a simmer at the slightest provocation. Classic. Some things never change. Trust me, I was really only saying Hi, not trying to bring your inner Mardy Collins back to life. The only light to see is the glint in your eyes reflecting the manlove you continually hold for LeQ. Not sure why. I'm not sure how you view Lebron's "run" but what other mediocre team did he carry to the Finals other than his first attempt in Cleveland? Miami was mediocre? Cleveland with Kyrie and Love was mediocre? Having AD made LA mediocre? But we all see Lebron through a different lens, since it's what everyone does.

Was glad you could work in a Brooklyn reference, even if it only further highlights what Melo never had here in NY.

Glad you can also say that it wasn't Melo, but the lack of a team around him when he was here.

Even if it did happen, I don't see Kawhi and Lillard winning a chip here by themselves, as Randle would probably be gone. Portland is going to rape us like a two dollar ho on Friday night, and all these actually quality parts and picks and pieces we have will go up like smoke. To use the neverending Triple mirror test, what is it going to take to get Dame? Randle, RJ, IQ, Mitch and picks? What else would Portland even sniff at? Do we really compare that haul to Gallo, RayRay, Chandler and Mozgov and picks? Seriously? I'm hoping you're not seeing a trade like that as equal, or even in the same neighborhood. Or solar system. I'll not waste typing comparing the former to the latter.

Not sure I see Randle as stained. Not after this season. I was all fanboy expecting a much better showing, just on defense alone, than what we got against Atlanta, but Randle rallied the yoots and the vets around him all season long and we gave the rest of the league fits, even during losses. Can't complain, even if we all do anyway. Fandom be what it is.

Again, I'd like to get Dame, but not at the cost of the yoots we have. Unfortunately, we don't have much else to offer Portland, so I don't see that happening unless Steven A suddenly starts running Leon's life. Not only that, but what would Thibs / Dame be like? Dame's not much on D, if anything. All that offense takes a toll on what's left for the other end of the floor. Would be intriguing to see how that would work out. Dame ain't Jimmy Butler, but who knows if it would go.

So we spend yet another off season reading bizarro trade scenarios that never happen. I look forward to BRIGGS' offerings.

Had to reread this as I was half asleep. I’m a bit taken by how non love for melo (Not hate though) really really gets your goat.
Even when I try to balance it with I see as objective truths you see it has veiled effort.
Fact is both teams succeeded in the aftermath of the deal in different ways and then proceeded to move on. Denver obviously been building on it.

The Melo trade could have ended with him going to nets and we take Devon Williams. The front court of Melo, Amare and Tyson had a very tight window and it was what it was. The bit players and picks might have been converted in other ways but we’ll never know. I said it 100times we got the best player in the deal.
For all its worth, an you really look in the mirror and say Knicks did well with him? I say no, but its not his “fault”. YOu can rail me all you want but thats my opinion. No need to assassinate my character. If you say hi, your egging me on.
We are two old soldiers and won’t ever agree on this but I’ll leave it be. Seems to be a sore spot for you and no sense poking an old wound.

As for Brooklyn they as important to me as PHilly or Miami. I bring them up not for love or any former association. I thought I’d be down with them bu really they like an other team. I’m a hoop fan and their trio it’s fascinating what they are doing and how they got here.