Welpee wrote:Keep in mind, this thread was started the day after RJ posted a 9 pt. game off 4-14 shooting, 0-3 on threes and 1-3 from the free throw line. Likely yet another emotional overreaction. The lesson should be don't anoint players as future hall of famers after a monster game or consider them trash after a bad game. Give it some time both ways.

+1

martin wrote:

Welpee wrote:

martin wrote:

Welpee wrote:Keep in mind, this thread was started the day after RJ posted a 9 pt. game off 4-14 shooting, 0-3 on threes and 1-3 from the free throw line. Likely yet another emotion overreaction. The lesson should be don't anoint players as future hall of famers after a monster game or consider them trash after a bad game. Give it some time both ways.

For me, it wasn't. Still stand with all of points I made.

Well, it sounds you're now in the "can't admit I may have been wrong or premature" mode. If you honestly are still not a long term buyer of RJ's potential, I don't know what to say. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

So perhaps we should get level to what I was actually speaking to. RJ has lots of potential but it’s the high end of that I still have doubts on. His feel for the game and some of his instincts are average at best.

If you want more clarifications on what I was speaking to, feel free to ask.

Let me know what you think of RJ’s game and where it tops out for you.

RJ is someone you will criticize for ever. Becasue he will never reach your potential. But I believe he will be a very productive all star type of player b4 his career is over. Is he going to the HOF? Who knows...but im happy we have a hard worker that doesn't shy away from big moments. And he's very coachable.....which is very underrated.

RJ will never look smooth and agile like kobe. But kobe (rip) doesn't look or move like RJ. And I agree, his ceiling doesn't look as high as some of the other younger players. But if you believe in RJ and if you believe in the coaches and mentors around him, then you can trust and believe he will continue to break every glass ceiling he incounters. That drive he has for greatness will continue to be the difference between him and other players his age.

And this thread is definitely a Briggs type of reaction, just based on the timing when it was created. But after reading all your chats on RJ, I believe you feel this way about RJ regardless of his Highs and lows per game. He's definitely a unique lefty that's more mechanical right now. I just trust that he will eventually iron out all the kinks over the course of his career.

Philc1 wrote:

Welpee wrote:Keep in mind, this thread was started the day after RJ posted a 9 pt. game off 4-14 shooting, 0-3 on threes and 1-3 from the free throw line. Likely yet another emotional overreaction. The lesson should be don't anoint players as future hall of famers after a monster game or consider them trash after a bad game. Give it some time both ways.

The Knicks showed patience with RJ, got him good coaching and surrounded him with talent

The Jets did none of those things with Sam Darnold and are going to look really stupid next season

martin wrote:For me, it wasn't. Still stand with all of points I made.

Below are the points in reference to RJ. To still stand by them seems fairly harsh - especially given the overall jump in his game this year. Thing about the kid that should have people excited is that his inside offensive game (less than 10 feet in) is currently lower than league average. Based on the way he appears to work and listen - plus his core strength increase with age, he'll likely develop a few go to finishing moves as well as become more accurate with the floater. 3 more buckets a game and he'll be closer to 25ppg and potentially with improved efficiency. .

martin wrote:He will have some flashes and maybe some good runs but I just don't see it right now. It's early, yada yada and a lot can change but I just am not convinced.

Slow, deliberate athlete. Not a natural shooter at all. Not a natural passer at all. Can have games where he shoots OK and passes very well but they are more forced or mechanical for me.

He has the personality and work mentality to succeed but just not the natural talent to really reach heights.

This is through the lens of the 3rd pick who has been touted as a big potential player with lots of talent.

My opinion for now.

SupremeCommander wrote:if people don't see RJ as at least a legitimate second option, and potential future all-star, well, wtf have you been watching all season? I said it before the draft and I will say it again now -- RJ has a very legitimate shot to be the best player in that class when it is all said and done. His game is rapidly expanding and he's 20 years old, yet he's already written off by people here? what the actual ****?

If you look at RJ's shooting this year (basically 45/40/75) - and particularly the 3pt shooting... you'd think he profiles as a future superstar. He had a more polished year two than young all-star wings like Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, and Brandon Ingram. And that's really saying something.

One thing you could almost guarantee next year is that he'll gain more efficiency next year. His overall stats will largely depend on the supporting cast. If the Knicks invest in other wings after this season (including bringing back our own Burks and Bullock), he may not get notably different looks or touches.

BigDaddyG wrote:Didn't notice this, but RJ played all 72 games. Man is a workhorse and we all know how hard Thibs was whipping him.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/g_yearly.html

He's the only player in the eastern conference to start every one of his team's games.

Welpee wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Didn't notice this, but RJ played all 72 games. Man is a workhorse and we all know how hard Thibs was whipping him.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/g_yearly.html

He's the only player in the eastern conference to start every one of his team's games.

He and Randle are #1 and #2 in the NBA in minutes played: https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_totals.html#totals_stats::mp

You know the old saying, your best ability is availability.

"What I've learned from you is that really one of the most important things in life is showing up. I'm blown away by your ability to show up through everything that's gone on. The league never wanted you to play this game, but you showed up." -- Keanu Reeves

jskinny35 wrote:To be fair I think we all have biases for certain players (ex I do against Randle even though he's played great) and I have seen Martin post right after RJ's poor games but also he will post positive stats for RJ when he's playing well. I'm a huge fan/supporter of RJ but he sure is one streaky shooting guy at this point. I suspect next year will be about increasing consistency, efficiency and offensive diversity with his game. The greatest indicator I see that can give us hope is that he seems to be a hard worker and the proof is that he has improved. Take Knox as opposite example - he's actually seemed to worsen. Yes we had 3-4 coaches and an organization in disarray for the last 20 years - but those that truly want to be great persevere and find a way. Not sure if RJ will end up great - but I truly think he will maximize every ounce of his ability when it's all said and done. Can't ask for anything more than that IMO...

martin wrote:He will have some flashes and maybe some good runs but I just don't see it right now. It's early, yada yada and a lot can change but I just am not convinced.

Slow, deliberate athlete. Not a natural shooter at all. Not a natural passer at all. Can have games where he shoots OK and passes very well but they are more forced or mechanical for me.

He has the personality and work mentality to succeed but just not the natural talent to really reach heights.

This is through the lens of the 3rd pick who has been touted as a big potential player with lots of talent.

My opinion for now.

I'm still there, nothing has changed for me.

Also, this is troubling, especially combined with this stat lines for the season so far.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1467250935877545986

martin wrote:

martin wrote:He will have some flashes and maybe some good runs but I just don't see it right now. It's early, yada yada and a lot can change but I just am not convinced.

Slow, deliberate athlete. Not a natural shooter at all. Not a natural passer at all. Can have games where he shoots OK and passes very well but they are more forced or mechanical for me.

He has the personality and work mentality to succeed but just not the natural talent to really reach heights.

This is through the lens of the 3rd pick who has been touted as a big potential player with lots of talent.

My opinion for now.

I'm still there, nothing has changed for me.

Also, this is troubling, especially combined with this stat lines for the season so far.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1467250935877545986

RJ is not naturally talented- his success is all based on him putting in extra work, as soon as he stops doing that he's finished- it's why I've never felt comfortable with him. Last year Herro took a step back due to partying a bit too much, and Butler called him out on his loss of effort and work ethic. He's come back with a vengeance this season after putting in max effort again in the offseason. Maybe RJ is going through that lesson this season.

Either way I'm fine trading him and always have been- he can be good, but he'll always be an artificial construct, which leaves little margin for error if he doesn't maintain an elite work ethic.

Likely he's next man out of the starting lineup!