Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...

Those guys actually did it in a way that helped their teams win though (efficient scoring and/or a strong impact on both ends of the court). How many games these past years have we won where Melo scored 30 to 40? Those guys also could do this and pile up the assists - they weren't neglecting their teammates.
Harden gets 30 to 40 with remarkable efficiency due to his FT shooting. Westbrook and Kobe were able to get 30 to 40 with reasonably good efficiency and still save enough energy for outstanding defense and they were good at setting their teammates up. (And I shouldn't even need to explain MJ.)
The concern with Melo is that when he talks about a reduced role on offense, he's probably thinking taking 18 shots a game instead of 20. I've never seen him take a seriously reduced role. The best thing he could do would be take 12 or 13 high quality shots a game and then use his passing skills to improve his teammates, and save his energy for defense. He actually can be an excellent passer and good defender when he wants to be. The problem is not with his skills - it's his approach to the game. This hasn't changed in the past 14 years.

Well we can compare rosters position for position, you really want o go there???

Melo has had enough all-stars, award-winning teammates (DPOY, MVP candidate) that he should have been able to do much better than he has. Of course teammates matter but no, I will not say this is 100% due to his teammates or even close to that. Teammates can never be an excuse for poor shot selection and poor defense. As long as you have guys who can make a layup you should not be chucking off-balance mid range shots with 15 left on the shot clock.

????..Who, name them!!!

Are you serious? Are you actually watching? Billups, Stoudemire, Tyson, Iverson. Most teams don't have two all-stars but he has had an all-star teammate many seasons. And he's had plenty of competent non-all-star teammates too. He's had enough support that if he actually used his skill set intelligently (on both ends of the court), his teams would have done much better than .300 or so in the playoffs and .500 in the regular season. (I'm just estimating the career winning percentages.) He's had a max contract skill set with a poor mindset his whole career.

Melo rookie season in Denver Nuggets had Camby/Nene/Birdman/and little pesky PG Boykins to have a 41 win season .. Camby and Sprewell took us to the FINALS. Melo was given Iverson and Kenyon Martin two super-star players that took their previous team to the FINALS. Then Melo was given super-star PG Billups who took his previous team to the FINALS.
The Knicks change their roster over every season Melo was in NY plus the Knicks change head-coaches 5 times for Melo ..... Melo belong on the sorry no first round draft pick Nets not the Knicks.

The nuggets won 26 more games in Melo's rookie year. They went from 17 wins to 43 and went to the playoffs for the first time in 9 years.

What exactly are you claiming? Melo brought 26 wins himself? Yet he brought nothing when he joined us mid-season (our winning % was lower with him than before the trade)? He brought 26 wins his rookie year but yet our whole barely wins that now? OR alternatively change in team wins is a bad way to evaluate a player.

I think it says he is a winner with the right pieces around him..They went to the playoffs every year he was there too..

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...

Those guys actually did it in a way that helped their teams win though (efficient scoring and/or a strong impact on both ends of the court). How many games these past years have we won where Melo scored 30 to 40? Those guys also could do this and pile up the assists - they weren't neglecting their teammates.
Harden gets 30 to 40 with remarkable efficiency due to his FT shooting. Westbrook and Kobe were able to get 30 to 40 with reasonably good efficiency and still save enough energy for outstanding defense and they were good at setting their teammates up. (And I shouldn't even need to explain MJ.)
The concern with Melo is that when he talks about a reduced role on offense, he's probably thinking taking 18 shots a game instead of 20. I've never seen him take a seriously reduced role. The best thing he could do would be take 12 or 13 high quality shots a game and then use his passing skills to improve his teammates, and save his energy for defense. He actually can be an excellent passer and good defender when he wants to be. The problem is not with his skills - it's his approach to the game. This hasn't changed in the past 14 years.

Well we can compare rosters position for position, you really want o go there???

Melo has had enough all-stars, award-winning teammates (DPOY, MVP candidate) that he should have been able to do much better than he has. Of course teammates matter but no, I will not say this is 100% due to his teammates or even close to that. Teammates can never be an excuse for poor shot selection and poor defense. As long as you have guys who can make a layup you should not be chucking off-balance mid range shots with 15 left on the shot clock.

????..Who, name them!!!

Are you serious? Are you actually watching? Billups, Stoudemire, Tyson, Iverson. Most teams don't have two all-stars but he has had an all-star teammate many seasons. And he's had plenty of competent non-all-star teammates too. He's had enough support that if he actually used his skill set intelligently (on both ends of the court), his teams would have done much better than .300 or so in the playoffs and .500 in the regular season. (I'm just estimating the career winning percentages.) He's had a max contract skill set with a poor mindset his whole career.

Melo rookie season in Denver Nuggets had Camby/Nene/Birdman/and little pesky PG Boykins to have a 41 win season .. Camby and Sprewell took us to the FINALS. Melo was given Iverson and Kenyon Martin two super-star players that took their previous team to the FINALS. Then Melo was given super-star PG Billups who took his previous team to the FINALS.
The Knicks change their roster over every season Melo was in NY plus the Knicks change head-coaches 5 times for Melo ..... Melo belong on the sorry no first round draft pick Nets not the Knicks.

The nuggets won 26 more games in Melo's rookie year. They went from 17 wins to 43 and went to the playoffs for the first time in 9 years.

What exactly are you claiming? Melo brought 26 wins himself? Yet he brought nothing when he joined us mid-season (our winning % was lower with him than before the trade)? He brought 26 wins his rookie year but yet our whole barely wins that now? OR alternatively change in team wins is a bad way to evaluate a player.

I was just responding to Kemet. I thought he was suggesting that the Nuggets should have done more Melo's rookie year. Is that how you took his comment about Melo's rookie year?

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...

Those guys actually did it in a way that helped their teams win though (efficient scoring and/or a strong impact on both ends of the court). How many games these past years have we won where Melo scored 30 to 40? Those guys also could do this and pile up the assists - they weren't neglecting their teammates.
Harden gets 30 to 40 with remarkable efficiency due to his FT shooting. Westbrook and Kobe were able to get 30 to 40 with reasonably good efficiency and still save enough energy for outstanding defense and they were good at setting their teammates up. (And I shouldn't even need to explain MJ.)
The concern with Melo is that when he talks about a reduced role on offense, he's probably thinking taking 18 shots a game instead of 20. I've never seen him take a seriously reduced role. The best thing he could do would be take 12 or 13 high quality shots a game and then use his passing skills to improve his teammates, and save his energy for defense. He actually can be an excellent passer and good defender when he wants to be. The problem is not with his skills - it's his approach to the game. This hasn't changed in the past 14 years.

Well we can compare rosters position for position, you really want o go there???

Melo has had enough all-stars, award-winning teammates (DPOY, MVP candidate) that he should have been able to do much better than he has. Of course teammates matter but no, I will not say this is 100% due to his teammates or even close to that. Teammates can never be an excuse for poor shot selection and poor defense. As long as you have guys who can make a layup you should not be chucking off-balance mid range shots with 15 left on the shot clock.

????..Who, name them!!!

Are you serious? Are you actually watching? Billups, Stoudemire, Tyson, Iverson. Most teams don't have two all-stars but he has had an all-star teammate many seasons. And he's had plenty of competent non-all-star teammates too. He's had enough support that if he actually used his skill set intelligently (on both ends of the court), his teams would have done much better than .300 or so in the playoffs and .500 in the regular season. (I'm just estimating the career winning percentages.) He's had a max contract skill set with a poor mindset his whole career.

Melo rookie season in Denver Nuggets had Camby/Nene/Birdman/and little pesky PG Boykins to have a 41 win season .. Camby and Sprewell took us to the FINALS. Melo was given Iverson and Kenyon Martin two super-star players that took their previous team to the FINALS. Then Melo was given super-star PG Billups who took his previous team to the FINALS.
The Knicks change their roster over every season Melo was in NY plus the Knicks change head-coaches 5 times for Melo ..... Melo belong on the sorry no first round draft pick Nets not the Knicks.

The nuggets won 26 more games in Melo's rookie year. They went from 17 wins to 43 and went to the playoffs for the first time in 9 years.

What exactly are you claiming? Melo brought 26 wins himself? Yet he brought nothing when he joined us mid-season (our winning % was lower with him than before the trade)? He brought 26 wins his rookie year but yet our whole barely wins that now? OR alternatively change in team wins is a bad way to evaluate a player.

I think it says he is a winner with the right pieces around him..They went to the playoffs every year he was there too..

You surround the guy with good players and you have a .600 team. Bad players and you have a .400 team. That probably applies to like 95% of the league. It's not really meaningful. Of course it's not impossible to have a good team if you have Melo.

I agree..LeBron left to be surrounded with better players..KD left to be surrounded with better players..So yeah..I get it...

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...

Those guys actually did it in a way that helped their teams win though (efficient scoring and/or a strong impact on both ends of the court). How many games these past years have we won where Melo scored 30 to 40? Those guys also could do this and pile up the assists - they weren't neglecting their teammates.
Harden gets 30 to 40 with remarkable efficiency due to his FT shooting. Westbrook and Kobe were able to get 30 to 40 with reasonably good efficiency and still save enough energy for outstanding defense and they were good at setting their teammates up. (And I shouldn't even need to explain MJ.)
The concern with Melo is that when he talks about a reduced role on offense, he's probably thinking taking 18 shots a game instead of 20. I've never seen him take a seriously reduced role. The best thing he could do would be take 12 or 13 high quality shots a game and then use his passing skills to improve his teammates, and save his energy for defense. He actually can be an excellent passer and good defender when he wants to be. The problem is not with his skills - it's his approach to the game. This hasn't changed in the past 14 years.

Well we can compare rosters position for position, you really want o go there???

Melo has had enough all-stars, award-winning teammates (DPOY, MVP candidate) that he should have been able to do much better than he has. Of course teammates matter but no, I will not say this is 100% due to his teammates or even close to that. Teammates can never be an excuse for poor shot selection and poor defense. As long as you have guys who can make a layup you should not be chucking off-balance mid range shots with 15 left on the shot clock.

????..Who, name them!!!

Are you serious? Are you actually watching? Billups, Stoudemire, Tyson, Iverson. Most teams don't have two all-stars but he has had an all-star teammate many seasons. And he's had plenty of competent non-all-star teammates too. He's had enough support that if he actually used his skill set intelligently (on both ends of the court), his teams would have done much better than .300 or so in the playoffs and .500 in the regular season. (I'm just estimating the career winning percentages.) He's had a max contract skill set with a poor mindset his whole career.

Melo rookie season in Denver Nuggets had Camby/Nene/Birdman/and little pesky PG Boykins to have a 41 win season .. Camby and Sprewell took us to the FINALS. Melo was given Iverson and Kenyon Martin two super-star players that took their previous team to the FINALS. Then Melo was given super-star PG Billups who took his previous team to the FINALS.
The Knicks change their roster over every season Melo was in NY plus the Knicks change head-coaches 5 times for Melo ..... Melo belong on the sorry no first round draft pick Nets not the Knicks.

The nuggets won 26 more games in Melo's rookie year. They went from 17 wins to 43 and went to the playoffs for the first time in 9 years.

What exactly are you claiming? Melo brought 26 wins himself? Yet he brought nothing when he joined us mid-season (our winning % was lower with him than before the trade)? He brought 26 wins his rookie year but yet our whole barely wins that now? OR alternatively change in team wins is a bad way to evaluate a player.

I think it says he is a winner with the right pieces around him..They went to the playoffs every year he was there too..

You surround the guy with good players and you have a .600 team. Bad players and you have a .400 team. That probably applies to like 95% of the league. It's not really meaningful. Of course it's not impossible to have a good team if you have Melo.

I agree..LeBron left to be surrounded with better players..KD left to be surrounded with better players..So yeah..I get it...

Hopefully Melo will do the same!

Was hoping to find a Bosh and Wade type here on the Knicks..Too much to ask?

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...

Those guys actually did it in a way that helped their teams win though (efficient scoring and/or a strong impact on both ends of the court). How many games these past years have we won where Melo scored 30 to 40? Those guys also could do this and pile up the assists - they weren't neglecting their teammates.
Harden gets 30 to 40 with remarkable efficiency due to his FT shooting. Westbrook and Kobe were able to get 30 to 40 with reasonably good efficiency and still save enough energy for outstanding defense and they were good at setting their teammates up. (And I shouldn't even need to explain MJ.)
The concern with Melo is that when he talks about a reduced role on offense, he's probably thinking taking 18 shots a game instead of 20. I've never seen him take a seriously reduced role. The best thing he could do would be take 12 or 13 high quality shots a game and then use his passing skills to improve his teammates, and save his energy for defense. He actually can be an excellent passer and good defender when he wants to be. The problem is not with his skills - it's his approach to the game. This hasn't changed in the past 14 years.

Well we can compare rosters position for position, you really want o go there???

Melo has had enough all-stars, award-winning teammates (DPOY, MVP candidate) that he should have been able to do much better than he has. Of course teammates matter but no, I will not say this is 100% due to his teammates or even close to that. Teammates can never be an excuse for poor shot selection and poor defense. As long as you have guys who can make a layup you should not be chucking off-balance mid range shots with 15 left on the shot clock.

????..Who, name them!!!

Are you serious? Are you actually watching? Billups, Stoudemire, Tyson, Iverson. Most teams don't have two all-stars but he has had an all-star teammate many seasons. And he's had plenty of competent non-all-star teammates too. He's had enough support that if he actually used his skill set intelligently (on both ends of the court), his teams would have done much better than .300 or so in the playoffs and .500 in the regular season. (I'm just estimating the career winning percentages.) He's had a max contract skill set with a poor mindset his whole career.

Melo rookie season in Denver Nuggets had Camby/Nene/Birdman/and little pesky PG Boykins to have a 41 win season .. Camby and Sprewell took us to the FINALS. Melo was given Iverson and Kenyon Martin two super-star players that took their previous team to the FINALS. Then Melo was given super-star PG Billups who took his previous team to the FINALS.
The Knicks change their roster over every season Melo was in NY plus the Knicks change head-coaches 5 times for Melo ..... Melo belong on the sorry no first round draft pick Nets not the Knicks.

The nuggets won 26 more games in Melo's rookie year. They went from 17 wins to 43 and went to the playoffs for the first time in 9 years.

What exactly are you claiming? Melo brought 26 wins himself? Yet he brought nothing when he joined us mid-season (our winning % was lower with him than before the trade)? He brought 26 wins his rookie year but yet our whole barely wins that now? OR alternatively change in team wins is a bad way to evaluate a player.

I think it says he is a winner with the right pieces around him..They went to the playoffs every year he was there too..

You surround the guy with good players and you have a .600 team. Bad players and you have a .400 team. That probably applies to like 95% of the league. It's not really meaningful. Of course it's not impossible to have a good team if you have Melo.

I agree..LeBron left to be surrounded with better players..KD left to be surrounded with better players..So yeah..I get it...

Hopefully Melo will do the same!

Was hoping to find a Bosh and Wade type here on the Knicks..Too much to ask?

Which players that the Knicks had a legit shot at were of the Bosh/Wade type? People act like Phil just chose not to go after the best players he could get. Kind of hard to convince top FA's coming off a 37 win year or 17 win year.

We only had the one 1st rd pick and Phil did the right thing cleaning house and ending up with KP. After that all Phil could do is build it back up to a less embarrassing level. Which he did. He swung and missed this summer but when you go back over each year it's hard to make a case for what exactly you could do much differently.

In the end this roster didn't work but he's not locked into all of it. Phil can retool and reload in the draft again. This is not the worst possible situation for this franchise.

nyk4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...

wow mentioning melo with all those guys is pure comedy. but it's really funny you should mention james harden... isn't it ironic that harden is averaging near a triple-double with the coach that melo was to stubborn to adapt to and decided to stop playing for? if that's not exhibitA of how melo has handled his whole entire career in the NBA, i'm not sure what is.

Doesn't really translate. With the Suns and Rockets D'antoni had a HOF level PG running the entire operation. Melo woulda had to be a role player with subpar talented attempting to run things.

crzymdups wrote:

Zebo13 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...

wow mentioning melo with all those guys is pure comedy. but it's really funny you should mention james harden... isn't it ironic that harden is averaging near a triple-double with the coach that melo was to stubborn to adapt to and decided to stop playing for? if that's not exhibitA of how melo has handled his whole entire career in the NBA, i'm not sure what is.

Doesn't really translate. With the Suns and Rockets D'antoni had a HOF level PG running the entire operation. Melo woulda had to be a role player with subpar talented attempting to run things.

The Melo haters think he should be a HOF point guard if he really cared about winning. It's hard to explain to them he's not necessarily a point guard. They say Melo not being a HOF point guard means he's not trying hard enough.

meloshouldgo wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Zebo13 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...

wow mentioning melo with all those guys is pure comedy. but it's really funny you should mention james harden... isn't it ironic that harden is averaging near a triple-double with the coach that melo was to stubborn to adapt to and decided to stop playing for? if that's not exhibitA of how melo has handled his whole entire career in the NBA, i'm not sure what is.

Doesn't really translate. With the Suns and Rockets D'antoni had a HOF level PG running the entire operation. Melo woulda had to be a role player with subpar talented attempting to run things.

The Melo haters think he should be a HOF point guard if he really cared about winning. It's hard to explain to them he's not necessarily a point guard. They say Melo not being a HOF point guard means he's not trying hard enough.

LOL ok becausr you said so. Please show me where someone has said that if Melo wasnt an HOF point guard he want trying hard.

I'm quoting a post where a guy compares Melo to James Harden. Harden is on his way to being a HOF point guard.

What many fans here don't seem to realize is that Melo is a first ballot hall of famer in his own right. He's just not, never has been, and never will be a playmaker.

37.5%
41.9%
40.6%

Career playoff shooting numbers 41.7%

In comparison Dirk Nowitzki is a 46.2% shooter in the playoffs with peak years of 48.5%, 54.7%, 51.8%

Melo's time in NY, even before Phil, always made me think he was in over his head. He's never been a very good shooter. He's been streaky. He can have many games where he's 2-14 or 2-15 going into the fourth quarter. This season Melo has had the bottom 5 FG% in the league in the 4th quarter.

I feel Melo's never had the scoring dominance and consistency that great players who win rings as the man have had. While he has the skills to be, I wonder if he has the same smarts and intelligence that other great players got.

Even so, he'd be a great second option. I don't know why the Knicks were unable to put a better player than him around him, in all his years. They may get that with Kristaps, but KP is maybe a year or two more away. Problem with KP is even when he is ready to be that good of a player that Melo shifts to the #2 role, Melo will have declined to the point where it's irrelevant.

For whatever it's worth, they are many other very good players who fall under the same category as Melo. A guy like Kyrie Irving, in my opinion, looks much better because he plays off Lebron. Kyrie when he has to carry a team can not get into the playoffs. There are not many players in the league who you can build a contender or yearly playoff team around. Melo is not one of those players anymore. He may have been in his peak early days with Denver, but since he came to NY, I have seen a steady decline in his play. He has never fully shown himself to be the player he once was since he had his knee troubles in Fisher's first season. I don't think Melo even has the same ability physically that he did 7 years ago. He can't get out there and have that energy he once had as a Nugget. So many games this season I've seen him just come flat to the games. Last year as well.

It's pointless debating what could have. The debate is what should happen. Could anyone build a contender around this Melo? No. Would any GM wnat to take Melo as his best player if the pressure or demands were to build a contender? No. Melo is now best suited as the #2 guy. He would be that on the Cavs, or Clippers. Maybe even #3 for them. He's not at a point anymore where the "whether he can carry a team or nor" debate should be even brought up. It's been evident he can not do it anymore.

crzymdups wrote:

Zebo13 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...

wow mentioning melo with all those guys is pure comedy. but it's really funny you should mention james harden... isn't it ironic that harden is averaging near a triple-double with the coach that melo was to stubborn to adapt to and decided to stop playing for? if that's not exhibitA of how melo has handled his whole entire career in the NBA, i'm not sure what is.

Doesn't really translate. With the Suns and Rockets D'antoni had a HOF level PG running the entire operation. Melo woulda had to be a role player with subpar talented attempting to run things.

The Melo haters think he should be a HOF point guard if he really cared about winning. It's hard to explain to them he's not necessarily a point guard. They say Melo not being a HOF point guard means he's not trying hard enough.

umm excuse me? melo hater? try ****ing reading you jackass, no one has been a bigger melo suppoter than i have during his time here. and guess what, harden was never a PG before this year either, yet he ADAPTED, something melo wasn't willing to do... which was the entire point of the post, not to compare pgs. your agenda is ****ing insane.

btw good job ignoring my posts to you on previous pages, you had no problem replying to anyone and everyone else. i know they went directly against your agenda, which is why you ignored them, but still. nice touch man.