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Game Thread: Knicks try to blow out the Pistons 11/1
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dk7th
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11/1/2016  10:20 PM
nixluva wrote:
dk7th wrote:rose looking like the fool's gold, empty calorie player i figured he was. really no semblance of a coherent offense and way too much of a streetball vibe to this game. there isn't even an offense to torpedo.

Game 3 and you've got it all figured out. Can't give the team more time to get it together I suppose we should just give up on the season. 💩 Post!!!

since june, when rose was acquired, i have given you the numbers that he needs to hew to. those numbers are in my sig. i will change my tune when those numbers are proven wrong, but as of right now i see no reason to change them. yes he did a great job in the first half scoring the ball, but eventually he has to strike a healthy balance between scoring and sharing, or the team simply will not gel.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
AUTOADVERT
meloshouldgo
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11/1/2016  10:31 PM
crzymdups wrote:The Pistons came into this game shooting 26% from 3pt for the season.

We let them shoot 62% from 3pt!

This has to be the stat of the week.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
dk7th
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11/1/2016  10:40 PM
holfresh wrote:Knicks played this same nonexistent defense in the preseason as well..I think the coach made a decision that a face paced offense will sacrifice some defensive effort..He said as much post game..

he said absolutely nothing of a sort-- not even remotely accurate.

he said there was too much iso, the cuts were half-azzed, and he questioned their conditioning.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
gunsnewing
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11/1/2016  10:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2016  10:42 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Derrick Rose is a gifted penetrator... but he doesn't really look like a point guard to me. Not a playmaker for other guys.
Rose is not a true PG. He is a combo guard.

Yea we knew that.

On paper this team is built for the triangle but we already abandoned it. And quite frankly
Our key players don't have the IQ to run the triangle effectively

HofstraBBall
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11/1/2016  10:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2016  11:08 PM
Rose played great first half. Not so much in 4th quarter. Looked tired. Still promising though. Melo looked like classic Melo in first half but again tired legs and too many forced shots in second half. LT looking like he should be benched. KP missing in first half. Had strong second half except for some defensive lapses. Knicks perimeter defense was non existent all game. Our PnR defense was awful. Second unit has no one that can hit an outside shot. They scored 7 points not counting Jennings 12. Not good. In spite of how bad we played we had a chance last 4 min but not enough ball movement,energy or kick outs. Morris, Harris, Pope had better games than KP, Melo and Lee. Although I have to question Lee's minutes. Biggest concerns are perimeter defense and bench. Hopefully we can turn both around.
'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
knicks1248
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11/1/2016  10:51 PM
dk7th wrote:
nixluva wrote:
dk7th wrote:rose looking like the fool's gold, empty calorie player i figured he was. really no semblance of a coherent offense and way too much of a streetball vibe to this game. there isn't even an offense to torpedo.

Game 3 and you've got it all figured out. Can't give the team more time to get it together I suppose we should just give up on the season. 💩 Post!!!

since june, when rose was acquired, i have given you the numbers that he needs to hew to. those numbers are in my sig. i will change my tune when those numbers are proven wrong, but as of right now i see no reason to change them. yes he did a great job in the first half scoring the ball, but eventually he has to strike a healthy balance between scoring and sharing, or the team simply will not gel.


You gotta design the system to to fit these players skills, hie's a combo guard, he's not a pure pg. if You looking for this guy to come down the court and be john stock, you got the wrong guy.

I am looking for rose to shoot 12 to 17 times on any given night, he has that ability. No pg will avg more than 4 or 5 assist in the triangle..You can easily hand those duties to Noah

ES
holfresh
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11/1/2016  10:52 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:Knicks played this same nonexistent defense in the preseason as well..I think the coach made a decision that a face paced offense will sacrifice some defensive effort..He said as much post game..

he said absolutely nothing of a sort-- not even remotely accurate.

he said there was too much iso, the cuts were half-azzed, and he questioned their conditioning.

Well he did say something to the effect of conditioning as you stated but also stated play on offense could have made them tired on defense..

holfresh
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11/1/2016  10:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2016  10:56 PM
Hornacek teams in PHX gave up 103 points per game so defense may not be our focus this year..
fitzfarm
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11/2/2016  1:09 AM
Thomas has had a terrible preseason and a aweful start to the season hate seeing wide open jumpers being bricked over and over again. When is kuz going to get a chance to get those wide open jumpers. nice little apperence of ndour he is a special talent, hope he can put it together in the next few years.

with that said i like LT but when hes not feeling it, is playing him 26 minutes a lot of time for a guy who has been brick city?

Dagger
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11/2/2016  1:42 AM
Second straight DNP-CD for Kuz. This is just very strange considering how well kuz played against the cavs and how poorly LT is playing. It's almost like Hornacek has already put kuz in the doghouse for some unknown reason.
smackeddog
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11/2/2016  2:14 AM
Dagger wrote:Second straight DNP-CD for Kuz. This is just very strange considering how well kuz played against the cavs and how poorly LT is playing. It's almost like Hornacek has already put kuz in the doghouse for some unknown reason.

Lance was a very important player for us last season, so it makes sense not to give up on him yet- plus we need to get better defensively and he's the better defensive player

Finestrg
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11/2/2016  4:27 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/2/2016  5:15 AM
I said it the other day -- if I had to guess right now, the two things we may need going forward to tweak it this year for the better: (1) a better alternative at backup point over Jennings (just not a fan at all--woefully inconsistent, ridiculously terrible shot-selection and what I didn't know--he's chippy and a complainer out there) and (2) a post threat w/o sacrificing rebounding and defense (someone better than O'Quinn).

#1 should be easy to fill -- just someone who gets it better. I really like Yogi Ferrell. I honestly think he'd be a better fit than Jennings and would be a guy we could move forward and build with. Bryce Cotton's similar to Ferrell--offensive-minded PGs but much more under control than Jennings...Also think Spencer Dinwiddie would be a real nice improvement over Jennings--he's big, skilled and heady. And likewise, a player we could build with..We need better mins/better play out of our backup point guard, bottom line. Jennings actually had some moments last night--enough where I was thinking, 'ok Jeff, good call, let's see Rose/Jennings together, even to close the game maybe'---but then, wham!, there goes Jennings being Jennings again. Complete wild card/loose cannon player out there. Too cavalier, too maverick.. Ashame, he's got talent but he doesn't come close to utilizing it to the fullest. He's been around and there's a reason he was available in FA for as cheap as we got him (little to do with the achilles injury which is a non-issue). There was a play last night where Justin Holiday had a nice block at the rim, then ran his ass off getting back on offense and should've gotten the ball back -- instead Jennings ran it down and heaved up a terrible 3. That's all you need to know with Jennings. A good floor general would've known to reward Holiday there. Maybe he works on some teams (SVG was singing his praises last night) but he's a square peg in a round hole here. I think this is gonna end badly for him in NY where next year, he'll be a FA and he'll be blasting everyone from Jeff Hornacek, to his teammates, to Phil's triangle. He'll have a ton of reasons why it didn't work out for him here, watch.

#2 -- A little harder to find. Let's face it -- a good three-way post scorer/rebounder/shot-blocker is probably an all-star level player. But say a rebounder/post scorer (maybe we need to see more Willy but truth be told, he looks pretty green out there right now. When Willy's been out there, I see too much passive play and too many mistakes). Looking for guys that might be getable -- I mentioned someone like Diamond Stone--might have the same problems as Willy though. Might need someone a little more established and NBA-ready here. Richaun Holmes maybe (toughness and a good defender/shot-blocker, he can even shoot/score, but doesn't necessarily have the go-to post-game I think we need)... I'm actually a Greg Monroe fan. If we could ever get him and not give up too much (for O'Quinn/Jennings/cash maybe?)..Where's Craig Brackins these days? 6'10" 230, always a good offensive player and he could post up.. There was talk last year about obtaining Markieff Morris in a trade. Maybe we explore that. Different team now--not sure I see a trade match with WASH. Plus I think they like him--he's been good for them so far.. How's Al Jefferson working out in Indy? I see he's not getting a lot of minutes. He's older now but could work here if the price is right (would they be interested in O'Quinn and/or Jennings?). Do we ever try to get Kevin Seraphin back if we could get him cheap? Ideally, I'd like to see KP play a little more in the post but it's just not his game full-time and I honestly thought Willy was a little more ready to play in the NBA but not sure I see that yet. O'Quinn's just not a post-up threat.. Gotta see who the top post players in the DL wind up being. Maybe there's someone who makes sense that we could add cheap.

Other things I'd look to clean up/tweak:

#3 - Also said the other day, I want less Phil meddling. I was reacting to the complete and utter confusion we saw offensively in the opener followed by Rose speaking out against the triangle immediately after that game. Now we're hearing Byron Scott criticizing Phil, saying that he needs to back off and let Jeff coach the team. And let's not forget the problems Phil had with Derek Fisher last year when Derek wanted to install some modern offense to augment Phil's triangle--part of what got him fired and this guy was one of Phil's own disciples. There's got to be something to this--I just hope it's not as bad as I think it might be. Back off and let Jeff do it his way and stop forcing your own principles on this coach and these players. Earth to Phil---people respect you but no one likes your system and what you're selling! It's overly complicated for these guys and it's leading to confusion, resistance, hesitation and frustration. They're not enjoying it and they're not having success with it. He actually did a reasonably good job putting this team together this year--now back the F off and let Jeff figure out how to get the best out of this team. It's not like he assembled all triangle players anyway--he didn't. Then why try to force triangle down their throats?? There's too much talent here to look as lost on offense as we do. Honestly believe Phil's meddling is detrimental and could be part of the problem here.

#4 - Courtney Lee is lost out there. I can't figure it--he's not a bad player. He might be one of these guys that simply can't grasp this system. He should be fitting in much better than he is. They need to figure out how to get him going and how to get more out of him. At first, I thought it was his fault, that he wasn't being aggressive enough. Not so sure that's entirely the case now. Just can't go games on end where we get nothing out of our starting 2G. I personally like Afflalo better as a player but I'm not trying to blast Lee. He's capable enough. Hard to pin point what's wrong here.

#5 - Less Lance Thomas; more Kuz/N'Dour.

#6 - More Plumlee. When Noah sits, part of me thinks it be nice to replace him that same toughness, same no-nonsense style, etc.. What Plumlee brings might be more important than what O'Quinn/Willy bring. In spurts against certain opponents at least.

Welpee
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11/2/2016  7:19 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/2/2016  7:21 AM
dk7th wrote:
nixluva wrote:
dk7th wrote:rose looking like the fool's gold, empty calorie player i figured he was. really no semblance of a coherent offense and way too much of a streetball vibe to this game. there isn't even an offense to torpedo.

Game 3 and you've got it all figured out. Can't give the team more time to get it together I suppose we should just give up on the season. 💩 Post!!!

since june, when rose was acquired, i have given you the numbers that he needs to hew to. those numbers are in my sig. i will change my tune when those numbers are proven wrong, but as of right now i see no reason to change them. yes he did a great job in the first half scoring the ball, but eventually he has to strike a healthy balance between scoring and sharing, or the team simply will not gel.

I'm noticing everything you post is about you. This season is about you being proven right on your theory and each game is a referendum on your alleged statistical theory or prediction of how terrible Rose is (unless its proven wrong, then you'll have an excuse to indicate you're still right).

Great fan you are.

If you ask me our defense is a bigger concern than the offense. I felt like we got open shots but they didn't fall in that fourth quarter.

Welpee
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11/2/2016  7:23 AM
SocraticBallin22 wrote:
dk7th wrote:rose looking like the fool's gold, empty calorie player i figured he was. really no semblance of a coherent offense and way too much of a streetball vibe to this game. there isn't even an offense to torpedo.

Way to jump off the bandwagon after game 3 of 82. lol

No, he jumped off the bandwagon in July. But he's a "fan."
fishmike
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11/2/2016  10:07 AM
Welpee wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:
dk7th wrote:rose looking like the fool's gold, empty calorie player i figured he was. really no semblance of a coherent offense and way too much of a streetball vibe to this game. there isn't even an offense to torpedo.

Way to jump off the bandwagon after game 3 of 82. lol

No, he jumped off the bandwagon in July. But he's a "fan."
he's a douche, but thats besides the point. He's been doing this for years. Find ways to enjoy it. Makes the board more fun.

Knicks played poorly. They bounced back nicely after the first loss, lets see them after this one. KP took some bad shots and missed some good ones. Lance has been dreadful since the ink on his new contract dried. Right now we just arent getting anything from the bench. KOQ and Holiday have had good moments, but thats about it. Jennings scored last night but wasnt good overall. Again... let them work it out.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
newyorknewyork
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11/2/2016  10:42 AM
Rose has been pretty solid. Sure we all would love me some more playmaking for others. But he has provided us with a needed scoring option.

Jennings has been brutal. We don't need him pulling up for 3s. We don't need him looking to create his own offense. We need him to create easy baskets for his teammates. His points should only come off of wide open jumpers and layups from his penitration or fast break. Getting guts like Lee, KP, KOQ, Noah, Holiday easy buckets is his role and skill set.

Wonder how long the leash is on Lance before JH looks to Kuz?

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
fishmike
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11/2/2016  10:46 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:Rose has been pretty solid. Sure we all would love me some more playmaking for others. But he has provided us with a needed scoring option.

Jennings has been brutal. We don't need him pulling up for 3s. We don't need him looking to create his own offense. We need him to create easy baskets for his teammates. His points should only come off of wide open jumpers and layups from his penitration or fast break. Getting guts like Lee, KP, KOQ, Noah, Holiday easy buckets is his role and skill set.

Wonder how long the leash is on Lance before JH looks to Kuz?

thinking this exactly. We played 12 last night. Coach is clearly still looking for the right fits and mix
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
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11/2/2016  10:48 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/2/2016  10:50 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:Rose has been pretty solid. Sure we all would love me some more playmaking for others. But he has provided us with a needed scoring option.

Jennings has been brutal. We don't need him pulling up for 3s. We don't need him looking to create his own offense. We need him to create easy baskets for his teammates. His points should only come off of wide open jumpers and layups from his penitration or fast break. Getting guts like Lee, KP, KOQ, Noah, Holiday easy buckets is his role and skill set.

Wonder how long the leash is on Lance before JH looks to Kuz?


Lance is getting burn because of his defense..That's why KP was on the bench until the 3 minute mark in the 4th..Kuz may not get burn for a while as he D isn't up to par...
crzymdups
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11/2/2016  11:08 AM
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Rose has been pretty solid. Sure we all would love me some more playmaking for others. But he has provided us with a needed scoring option.

Jennings has been brutal. We don't need him pulling up for 3s. We don't need him looking to create his own offense. We need him to create easy baskets for his teammates. His points should only come off of wide open jumpers and layups from his penitration or fast break. Getting guts like Lee, KP, KOQ, Noah, Holiday easy buckets is his role and skill set.

Wonder how long the leash is on Lance before JH looks to Kuz?


Lance is getting burn because of his defense..That's why KP was on the bench until the 3 minute mark in the 4th..Kuz may not get burn for a while as he D isn't up to par...

Lance's defense was not good though - Harris had 25pts. Lance straight up fell down and bumbled the ball out of bounds several times. He looks really rusty. Hopefully he can shake it off with some reps. I remember last November he looked pretty rough and by December we all really liked him.

¿ △ ?
GustavBahler
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11/2/2016  11:20 AM
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Rose has been pretty solid. Sure we all would love me some more playmaking for others. But he has provided us with a needed scoring option.

Jennings has been brutal. We don't need him pulling up for 3s. We don't need him looking to create his own offense. We need him to create easy baskets for his teammates. His points should only come off of wide open jumpers and layups from his penitration or fast break. Getting guts like Lee, KP, KOQ, Noah, Holiday easy buckets is his role and skill set.

Wonder how long the leash is on Lance before JH looks to Kuz?


Lance is getting burn because of his defense..That's why KP was on the bench until the 3 minute mark in the 4th..Kuz may not get burn for a while as he D isn't up to par...

Lance's defense was not good though - Harris had 25pts. Lance straight up fell down and bumbled the ball out of bounds several times. He looks really rusty. Hopefully he can shake it off with some reps. I remember last November he looked pretty rough and by December we all really liked him.

We were behind, and Jeff benched our best scoring option that night for a rusty player. Im all for giving LT playing time to shake the rust off, but not during crunch time.

Game Thread: Knicks try to blow out the Pistons 11/1

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