It needs to change but divisive protests and hateful rhetoric is doing very little to help matters. And Athletes have been voicing their opinions on social media on this subject for years now. It's clearly not working.

Maybe it time to band together in a more civil and unified way. An approach more in line with unifying leaders like Dr. King

It is the same for most cops. Extreme fear and walking on egg shells. Just some food for thought before more innocent cops get killed since its a daily occurrence now

gunsnewing wrote:You know its bad when the white mayor of Minnesota admits racism played a significant role. Its not easy being a cop. They put thei r lives at risk everyday but this one is hard to justify.

It needs to change but divisive protests and hateful rhetoric is doing very little to help matters. And Athletes have been voicing their opinions on social media on this subject for years now. It's clearly not working.

Maybe it time to band together in a more civil and unified way. An approach more in line with unifying leaders like Dr. King

Some police have admitted that they target low income African Americans because they are easy targets. Not because they commit more crime. But because a cop is likely to risk busting the son or relative of a person who is in position of power and get in trouble. They don't get in trouble when dealing with low income African Americans.

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

arkrud wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

dk7th wrote:1) the nra needs to be demolished and gun shows heavily proctored where all invitees are thoroughly checked.
2) the second amendment needs to be re-written to ban semi-automatic weapons from both citizenry and the regular police forces. possessors of any such weapons should be tried for treason and put in jail for lengthy prison terms. **** "originalism."
3) marijuana needs to be legalized and heavily regulated and taxed
4) the very wealthiest should be taxed heavily and the majority of funds should be diverted to pre-k through grammar school programs for inner city minorities
5) teachers in inner city pre-k through grammar school programs should be amply rewarded to the degree they are trained and vetted for this work
6) police forces must be representative of the communities they are meant to serve, and if a demographic changes rapidly, such as in ferguson, then the policemen need to be relocated to other communities or furloughed by some federal oversight. this is similar to members of the army and their families.
7) every citizen between the ages of 18-24 must serve in the military for two years in a defensive capacity, defending our borders and ports.

that would be a good start.

Not bad proposals. I'd also want to expand no.5 to include the creation of teaching assistants for the classroom. I think it is simply unreasonable in this day and age to expect teachers to handle classrooms of 20 or more students without some assistance in helping keep the room orderly. We're able to spend $500,000 or your standard conventional bomb....we should be able to pay for programs like this.

And if funding does become a problem, I'd like to see Estate Taxes increased exponentially. I feel no one person should be inheriting more than $5 million worth of net assets under any circumstance. The last thing this society needs are more Donald Trumps of the world that clearly are not worthy of being a leader of anything simply by birth-right. You want to be a part of the ruling class, earn it and prove your utility to the whole.

those are pie in the sky proposals that indicate little understanding of how the gov work.

Also we are not a socialist state. This proposal to take away rich peoples money, keep it from their children and "make them earn it" is un-American. Tim Duncan has two kids. So if he and his wife die in a car crash his kids should only get $5mm each and the rest of the $100mm of his estate should go to inner city educational funds? Lets the gov decide what to do with it? Is that it?

Read about the NRA lobby, the size of its membership and its power in Washington, and why it exists in the first place. Dumping the NRA is as good a suggestion as "we should all just stop fighting and love each other." Good sentiments, no basis in reality.

Im not trying to throw water on your discussion or ideas, simply suggest that some things can be accomplished and others cannot, at least as the game is currently constructed. Might want to focus on what can be accomplished.

Start with decriminalizing all drugs. I think it was mentioned someone in the thread but those stiff laws go back the to Nixon administration where heroin (blacks) and marijuana (anti gov hippies) were used to all the gov to control groups it viewed as a threat. Now those laws just are avenues to continue the criminalization of poor minorities, the incarceration of the men/fathers of those communities, and rendering those lives as "don't matter."

Tough issues with generations of laws of lousy thinking to cut through

If those are pie-in-the-sky ideas, why does it seem that every industrialized country has managed to put these or similar measures into practice? Israel (and Turkey, I believe) has mandatory military-service laws. Weed is legal in Amsterdam(the Netherlands). France has very tight gun control laws and no viable opposition to them. So why can't we make in-roads to doing the same in this country?

And what founding document of our country articulates how our economy is suppose to function? And does it define an aggressive Estate Tax as explicitly "un-American"? If so, how or why? And if it's against socialist policies, how have Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and the like been deemed Constitutional?

As for what I'd spend the increased revenue on, it'd basically look like the Bernie Sanders playbook: massive infrastructure investments, public (and inexpensive) healthcare for all, massive re-investment in public universities, etc.

Be careful at what you wish for...
Look at Russia, Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela, etc.
How socialism worked out for them? Not very cool.

and Brazil. I always get a kick out of Americans wanting socialism. What ends up happening is you relinquish your freedom and give the complete control to blatantly you as citizens. I know because my cousin is one of the ones impeached and indited on charges from Brazil's latest corruption scandals. I've seen how radical far left politicians are capable of ripping off a entire country and reap the benefits first hand

One of these days real soon after the next 2000 unarmed black people have been shot to death for the crime of being black one of you geniuses will realize we are already living in a society where non white people have already relinquished all their freedom. Including the freedom to walk on the street. Till then let's reiterate the same tired BS about socialist countries and pat ourselves on the back for being enlightened. It's working or great so far.

Not sure what are talking about.
Just walked the streets of Brooklyn.
Sow all kind colors of people walking freely and showing no fear of each other or police or anything.
Where is the dangerous place you are living? South Sudan? Nigeria? Livia? Syria? Afghanistan? Somalia? East Ukraine?

You are not sure what I am talking about? Are you now denying innocent black people are being shot in the streets or do you only accept that people can feel threatened if they are undergoing holocaust level mass genocide? Are you being intentionally blase or are you really this thick?

1000 black people shot by police in year... a couple of them innocent. This is wrong.
Tens of thousand black people shut by gungs, mostly black gungs. This is wrong too.
But is not comparable with what happening in many countries of the world now, not talking about genocides of the past.
Every live matter and we should try to prevent any innocent death, especially by hands of low enforcement.
But this will still happened here and there anyways.
I do not understand why a couple of cases make majority of people in 500 million country racists and all society evil.

One doesn't justify the other. At the same time if a black person kills another person he/she is going to jail. There are cases of police killing an unarmed civilian and justice not being served.

According to the US Department of Justice statistics, 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites. In 2011, there were more cases of whites killing whites than there were of blacks killing blacks

Between 1980 to 2008, a majority (53.3 percent) of gang-related murders were committed by white people, with a majority of the homicide victims being white as well.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kerry-coddett/white-on-white-crime-an-u_b_6771878.html

White are majority so it should be more cases. By population % it should be around 75%.
Also it is natural that gangs operate (and kill people in the process) in their own community. They are territorial.

Killing of innocent people (and guilty too) cannot be justified. Its a crime and should be punished by low regardless of who the person commuted this crime is. The severity of punishment should depend on consequences. No one dispute this.
Is low applied properly or not and is it up-to-date and unbiased is up for discussion and change.
That's why we should freely talk about it and debate it.
Talking and having an opinion, even wrong, is not a crime and not a racism.
Suppressing free conversation and putting labels on people who want to understand the position of other people is counterproductive and dangerous. We have to drop the "political correctness" sickness which eroding our society. It getting so bad that start killing people.

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

arkrud wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

dk7th wrote:1) the nra needs to be demolished and gun shows heavily proctored where all invitees are thoroughly checked.
2) the second amendment needs to be re-written to ban semi-automatic weapons from both citizenry and the regular police forces. possessors of any such weapons should be tried for treason and put in jail for lengthy prison terms. **** "originalism."
3) marijuana needs to be legalized and heavily regulated and taxed
4) the very wealthiest should be taxed heavily and the majority of funds should be diverted to pre-k through grammar school programs for inner city minorities
5) teachers in inner city pre-k through grammar school programs should be amply rewarded to the degree they are trained and vetted for this work
6) police forces must be representative of the communities they are meant to serve, and if a demographic changes rapidly, such as in ferguson, then the policemen need to be relocated to other communities or furloughed by some federal oversight. this is similar to members of the army and their families.
7) every citizen between the ages of 18-24 must serve in the military for two years in a defensive capacity, defending our borders and ports.

that would be a good start.

Not bad proposals. I'd also want to expand no.5 to include the creation of teaching assistants for the classroom. I think it is simply unreasonable in this day and age to expect teachers to handle classrooms of 20 or more students without some assistance in helping keep the room orderly. We're able to spend $500,000 or your standard conventional bomb....we should be able to pay for programs like this.

And if funding does become a problem, I'd like to see Estate Taxes increased exponentially. I feel no one person should be inheriting more than $5 million worth of net assets under any circumstance. The last thing this society needs are more Donald Trumps of the world that clearly are not worthy of being a leader of anything simply by birth-right. You want to be a part of the ruling class, earn it and prove your utility to the whole.

those are pie in the sky proposals that indicate little understanding of how the gov work.

Also we are not a socialist state. This proposal to take away rich peoples money, keep it from their children and "make them earn it" is un-American. Tim Duncan has two kids. So if he and his wife die in a car crash his kids should only get $5mm each and the rest of the $100mm of his estate should go to inner city educational funds? Lets the gov decide what to do with it? Is that it?

Read about the NRA lobby, the size of its membership and its power in Washington, and why it exists in the first place. Dumping the NRA is as good a suggestion as "we should all just stop fighting and love each other." Good sentiments, no basis in reality.

Im not trying to throw water on your discussion or ideas, simply suggest that some things can be accomplished and others cannot, at least as the game is currently constructed. Might want to focus on what can be accomplished.

Start with decriminalizing all drugs. I think it was mentioned someone in the thread but those stiff laws go back the to Nixon administration where heroin (blacks) and marijuana (anti gov hippies) were used to all the gov to control groups it viewed as a threat. Now those laws just are avenues to continue the criminalization of poor minorities, the incarceration of the men/fathers of those communities, and rendering those lives as "don't matter."

Tough issues with generations of laws of lousy thinking to cut through

If those are pie-in-the-sky ideas, why does it seem that every industrialized country has managed to put these or similar measures into practice? Israel (and Turkey, I believe) has mandatory military-service laws. Weed is legal in Amsterdam(the Netherlands). France has very tight gun control laws and no viable opposition to them. So why can't we make in-roads to doing the same in this country?

And what founding document of our country articulates how our economy is suppose to function? And does it define an aggressive Estate Tax as explicitly "un-American"? If so, how or why? And if it's against socialist policies, how have Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and the like been deemed Constitutional?

As for what I'd spend the increased revenue on, it'd basically look like the Bernie Sanders playbook: massive infrastructure investments, public (and inexpensive) healthcare for all, massive re-investment in public universities, etc.

Be careful at what you wish for...
Look at Russia, Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela, etc.
How socialism worked out for them? Not very cool.

and Brazil. I always get a kick out of Americans wanting socialism. What ends up happening is you relinquish your freedom and give the complete control to blatantly you as citizens. I know because my cousin is one of the ones impeached and indited on charges from Brazil's latest corruption scandals. I've seen how radical far left politicians are capable of ripping off a entire country and reap the benefits first hand

One of these days real soon after the next 2000 unarmed black people have been shot to death for the crime of being black one of you geniuses will realize we are already living in a society where non white people have already relinquished all their freedom. Including the freedom to walk on the street. Till then let's reiterate the same tired BS about socialist countries and pat ourselves on the back for being enlightened. It's working or great so far.

Not sure what are talking about.
Just walked the streets of Brooklyn.
Sow all kind colors of people walking freely and showing no fear of each other or police or anything.
Where is the dangerous place you are living? South Sudan? Nigeria? Livia? Syria? Afghanistan? Somalia? East Ukraine?

You are not sure what I am talking about? Are you now denying innocent black people are being shot in the streets or do you only accept that people can feel threatened if they are undergoing holocaust level mass genocide? Are you being intentionally blase or are you really this thick?

1000 black people shot by police in year... a couple of them innocent. This is wrong.
Tens of thousand black people shut by gungs, mostly black gungs. This is wrong too.
But is not comparable with what happening in many countries of the world now, not talking about genocides of the past.
Every live matter and we should try to prevent any innocent death, especially by hands of low enforcement.
But this will still happened here and there anyways.
I do not understand why a couple of cases make majority of people in 500 million country racists and all society evil.

One doesn't justify the other. At the same time if a black person kills another person he/she is going to jail. There are cases of police killing an unarmed civilian and justice not being served.

According to the US Department of Justice statistics, 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites. In 2011, there were more cases of whites killing whites than there were of blacks killing blacks

Between 1980 to 2008, a majority (53.3 percent) of gang-related murders were committed by white people, with a majority of the homicide victims being white as well.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kerry-coddett/white-on-white-crime-an-u_b_6771878.html

White are majority so it should be more cases. By population % it should be around 75%.
Also it is natural that gangs operate (and kill people in the process) in their own community. They are territorial.

Killing of innocent people (and guilty too) cannot be justified. Its a crime and should be punished by low regardless of who the person commuted this crime is. The severity of punishment should depend on consequences. No one dispute this.
Is low applied properly or not and is it up-to-date and unbiased is up for discussion and change.
That's why we should freely talk about it and debate it.
Talking and having an opinion, even wrong, is not a crime and not a racism.
Suppressing free conversation and putting labels on people who want to understand the position of other people is counterproductive and dangerous. We have to drop the "political correctness" sickness which eroding our society. It getting so bad that start killing people.

Are you not putting labels on people by saying 10,0000 blacks killing each other is wrong too. Because of course blacks will always get crime, violence, gangs attached to our race.

Blacks kill blacks and whites kill whites because they accociate with there own more then they do with other races.

newyorknewyork wrote:All theories of government depend on the morals of the people.

IMO, a society cannot be "free" unless it is capitalist. All the other systems force work on some for the benefit of all. Eventually those working figure it out and stop performing or do it poorly. The thing is they cant stop as the system then fails. Thus they are enslaved to it. In Capitalism, you are free to succeed for yourself as long as you do not impede your fellow humans rights to do the same . You work for your benefit and share if you want. Not by coercion but by a desire to be good and moral.

So at the basic theory level, one allows for freedom, the others inherently do not and will always devolve into Stalinesque Totalitarianism at some point.

BTW, I would not call what Putin has now "democratic". It is only an appearance. He is boldly taking Russia back towards the cliff of despair. There will be pain for the Russian people and likely many others.

Again, these are my opinions based on family history and looking throughout history.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:All theories of government depend on the morals of the people.

IMO, a society cannot be "free" unless it is capitalist. All the other systems force work on some for the benefit of all. Eventually those working figure it out and stop performing or do it poorly. The thing is they cant stop as the system then fails. Thus they are enslaved to it. In Capitalism, you are free to succeed for yourself as long as you do not impede your fellow humans rights to do the same . You work for your benefit and share if you want. Not by coercion but by a desire to be good and moral.

So at the basic theory level, one allows for freedom, the others inherently do not and will always devolve into Stalinesque Totalitarianism at some point.

BTW, I would not call what Putin has now "democratic". It is only an appearance. He is boldly taking Russia back towards the cliff of despair. There will be pain for the Russian people and likely many others.

Again, these are my opinions based on family history and looking throughout history.

Leaving first 25 years of my life in USSR I can confirm that you opinion is right on point.
This exactly how Soviet Union failed apart. People stopped working but were just pretending.
Everyone participated in black market to exchange resources they can get still from their work environment with other people who did same.
It was the level of performance equal to primitive tribal edge.
So the huge county lost all resources very quick and imploded.
Same was the case in all Socialist counties on 20th century with some variations.
Currently we see same in Venezuela, Brazil, North Korea, Cuba, etc.

newyorknewyork wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:All theories of government depend on the morals of the people.

IMO, a society cannot be "free" unless it is capitalist. All the other systems force work on some for the benefit of all. Eventually those working figure it out and stop performing or do it poorly. The thing is they cant stop as the system then fails. Thus they are enslaved to it. In Capitalism, you are free to succeed for yourself as long as you do not impede your fellow humans rights to do the same . You work for your benefit and share if you want. Not by coercion but by a desire to be good and moral.

So at the basic theory level, one allows for freedom, the others inherently do not and will always devolve into Stalinesque Totalitarianism at some point.

BTW, I would not call what Putin has now "democratic". It is only an appearance. He is boldly taking Russia back towards the cliff of despair. There will be pain for the Russian people and likely many others.

Again, these are my opinions based on family history and looking throughout history.

At the same time (as an example) for profit juvenile detentions were created. Some judges were bribed and purposely handing out sentencing in order to make profit.

When we put a war on corruption then we will see drastic change for the better.

Hard to disagree.
But it is hard to fight caps corruption with current compensation they have.
Officers have to get at least 1.5 national average salary not 40K or even less.
And municipal cash flow must be totally disconnected from traffic fines.
It should go to the pool to help injured in traffic accidents, fix roads, and improve road infrastructure, not plug the holes in the budgets.
I think our court system is mostly working good and is not as much corrupted to be a major issue.

Imho spending money on that instead of turning into little paramilitary forces closed off from the public they serve is an ounce of prevention to pound of cure

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:All theories of government depend on the morals of the people.

IMO, a society cannot be "free" unless it is capitalist. All the other systems force work on some for the benefit of all. Eventually those working figure it out and stop performing or do it poorly. The thing is they cant stop as the system then fails. Thus they are enslaved to it. In Capitalism, you are free to succeed for yourself as long as you do not impede your fellow humans rights to do the same . You work for your benefit and share if you want. Not by coercion but by a desire to be good and moral.

So at the basic theory level, one allows for freedom, the others inherently do not and will always devolve into Stalinesque Totalitarianism at some point.

BTW, I would not call what Putin has now "democratic". It is only an appearance. He is boldly taking Russia back towards the cliff of despair. There will be pain for the Russian people and likely many others.

Again, these are my opinions based on family history and looking throughout history.

You are pushing the viewpoint that some in power want you to have. It's the individual, not the system, that is the problem...and therefore there are not changes needed.

In essence, you view becomes part of the problem.

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